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Old 11-17-2006, 03:07 PM    (permalink
Space Ghost
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Will your second half record be better or worse than last years? What do you guys think?
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Old 11-18-2006, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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I think our second half record will be better...for a few reasons...once Abe comes back, he will help this team a LOT. Jimmy Williams getting a chance to play, BIG upgrade over Webster, and I think we'll finally get some return on our investment.
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Old 11-18-2006, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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The reason we had our hiccup was very evident:

Vick Turnovers in Games 1-7: Six.

Record: 5-2

Vick Turnovers in Games 8-9: Six.

Record: 0-2

If he plays under control, we win. When he becomes careless, we lose. It's that simple. His receivers have consistently dropped passes, yet we still won, and Vick still had great stats. His turnovers are in-excusable. We go as he goes.
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Old 11-19-2006, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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yay! another loss, looking foward to a good draft pick
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Old 11-19-2006, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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good game ya all.
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Our special teams lost us the game, every game it's something else. :( We have now lost games because of:

1. erratic offensive play on all levels, O-Line, WR drops, QB turnovers, disappearing running game.

2. erratic defensive play on all levels, run defense, pass defense.

3. terrible coaching, play calling, schemes, preperation, lacksidasical team energy.

We find ways to lose games, we should easily be near the top of the NFC.
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Old 11-20-2006, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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We lost this game due to PATHETIC coaching #1 A myriad of injuries #2

#1 who HONESTLY loses a game and only throws 21 times? Vick was 9/13 in the first half...threw only EIGHT passes in the second half of the game? Really? I mean sure, he was 1/8, but how can you only throw EIGHT passes? Our playcalling was bad all game, Vick just happened to make it work on 1 drive. I couldn't believe it...I couldn't even stomach to watch the 2nd half of the game on TiVO. I wonder...was there ANY reason to only get Norwood 3 touches all game? THREE...and it wasn't 3 in a row to get any sort of a rythum...it was 1 per drive...that's STUPID.

#2 there's just no way we can keep our defense up to speed in the 2nd half of games without more rotation, and these young guys are just giving out. They start off great...but they can't finish the game out...which leads back to #1 as well.
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Old 11-20-2006, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Add a new candidate to the Replace Jim Mora list.

SD's OC. I love their playbook, and how they create mismatches.

You guys need to revamp the whole offense. Keep Vick and Crumpler, give the WRs a shot in a new system, but the whole ZBS and WCO scheme is not working. Get a whole new line, and a power runner. And of course fire Mora and get a traditional offense.

Theres still hope though. Like I said in other threads, theres a strong possibility of an 8-8 team getting to the playoffs in the NFC. I think Atlanta still has hope if they can get it together. Division games are gonna be HUGE. Lose the division games, then its over. But theres still hope. The NFC is such a crapshoot.

Heck, the NFL has been a crapshoot the past 2 years. Theres too much parity.
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Old 11-20-2006, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Add a new candidate to the Replace Jim Mora list.

SD's OC. I love their playbook, and how they create mismatches.

You guys need to revamp the whole offense. Keep Vick and Crumpler, give the WRs a shot in a new system, but the whole ZBS and WCO scheme is not working. Get a whole new line, and a power runner. And of course fire Mora and get a traditional offense.

Theres still hope though. Like I said in other threads, theres a strong possibility of an 8-8 team getting to the playoffs in the NFC. I think Atlanta still has hope if they can get it together. Division games are gonna be HUGE. Lose the division games, then its over. But theres still hope. The NFC is such a crapshoot.

Heck, the NFL has been a crapshoot the past 2 years. Theres too much parity.
the ZBS is working. the WCO is not even what we run anymore. this is what you don't get. we don't run a good offense because we can't execute. we have the talent. the scheme is finally right. we just aren't executing it. the same goes for defense except the defense has a lot of injuries.
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Old 11-20-2006, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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The "ZBS" isn't working, Vick is getting killed out there. We were 5th in the NFL in rushing in '02, while actually being able to pass protect and throw the football. Oh, by the way, our rushing attack for the past five games has been all Vick. Our receivers' struggles regardless, our offensive line scheme isn't conducive to productive passing attacks. The Denver Broncos as an example, they are only productive passing, on bootlegs and moving pockets, not drop backs.

As for the "WCO" it isn't so much the scheme, as it is the pathetic play calling. Actually our coaching staff in general. Where other teams, like San Diego, make adjustments at half time, our team falls apart in the 2nd half. We play down to competition, we don't adjust, the two biggest signs of piss poor coaching.
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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As bad as we are right now, we are in prime set-up to make a run. We face three bad teams on the road, of the three 'tough' games they are all at home. Not to mention, we hopefully will have Ed Hartwell and John Abraham back for the home stretch. Not to mention we face the Saints, most likely, without their best offensive playmaker.
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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We lost 2 games to 2 PATHETIC teams...then we got beat by the Ravens...one of the toughest teams in the AFC. Our team looks pretty pitiful out there...but I honestly believe more and more that the coaching is pathetic to watch athletes as good as we have out on the field flop as bad as they have. WE HAVE A FRIGGIN OFFENSIVE GUARD as a WR coach...hello...SOMEONE has to be STUPID to do that. I hate this crap. I want a competent coaching staff. I thought Mora could become that, but it's not happening fast enough. Young team...Young coach...that's a problem.
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iloxygenil
We lost 2 games to 2 PATHETIC teams...then we got beat by the Ravens...one of the toughest teams in the AFC. Our team looks pretty pitiful out there...but I honestly believe more and more that the coaching is pathetic to watch athletes as good as we have out on the field flop as bad as they have. WE HAVE A FRIGGIN OFFENSIVE GUARD as a WR coach...hello...SOMEONE has to be STUPID to do that. I hate this crap. I want a competent coaching staff. I thought Mora could become that, but it's not happening fast enough. Young team...Young coach...that's a problem.
I agree. and Shiver the ZBS is working just fine. we aren't staying with the run game. Dunn only getting 10-15 attempts in the past 3 games isn't good. I agree though we need to change our coaching staff up. I would love to see it like this:
Head Coach - Ken Weisenhunt
Offensive Coordinator - Mike Mularkey (I love his schemes and he knows how to get the most from his QBs)
QB Coach - Bill Musgrave (I love how he works with Mechanics and his work with Vick actually has been helping him. he was a QB in the NFL behind both Steve Young and John Elway and can throw with both hands.)
RB Coach - Ollie Wilson (why not keep him? our RB's are developing well under him) and Jamal Anderson (just to make sure bring in the original dirty bird)
WR Coach - Terence Mathis (he offered. let's take him up on it)
TE Coach - Clancy Barone (he isn't hurting us. Crumpler has declined but Blakely is doing better leaving me to believe it is on Crumps injury.)
OL Coach - Tom Cable (Alex Gibbs scheme still intact but with bigger guys than what Gibbs likes. Pass Blocking schemes are better this year as most of the times it is an overload to hurt us.)
Defensive Coordinator - John Tenuta (I love his Zone Blitz schemes and think they would be great for our current talent)
DL Coach - Bill Johnson and Joe Lombardi. (the UDFA's are playing like experienced vets and never quitting. they are playing to their ceilings right now)
LB Coach - Cornelius Bennett (nominated for the Hall of Fame after a 14 year career at WLB) and Jesse Tuggle (should be a Hall of Famer)
DB Coach - Ashley Ambrose and Deion Sanders (pro bowl corners and one played safety later on at the NFL level)
Special Teams Coordinator - Joe DeCamillis (schemes) and Steve Hoffman (K/P)
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Well, we can run the same run plays under Cable, what I am referring to is the Alex Gibbs, turn coal into diamonds approach. I don't think that works, what you are suggesting, I agree with. Run about the same system, except with talented lineman. For example, Jagodzinsky runs our system, but they drafted two day one lineman and have protected Favre very well.
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
Well, we can run the same run plays under Cable, what I am referring to is the Alex Gibbs, turn coal into diamonds approach. I don't think that works, what you are suggesting, I agree with. Run about the same system, except with talented lineman. For example, Jagodzinsky runs our system, but they drafted two day one lineman and have protected Favre very well.
I never said to not draft talented guys and I think Ojinnaka and Omiyale have talent. I just think first rounders are a waste at G and our tackles are set for a while between Wiener, Gandy, Ojinnaka and Omiyale. We would get a guy like Satele in the 3rd round or Datish in the 2nd. both fit IMO and woudl be better at pass blocking while not being any drop off in run blocking.
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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I'm just saynig, when I type "ZBS" I am referring to Alex Gibbs system, which I personally isn't worth the trade off. What you want, is no different than what I want.
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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I'm just saynig, when I type "ZBS" I am referring to Alex Gibbs system, which I personally isn't worth the trade off. What you want, is no different than what I want.
when I see ZBS. I see Zone blocking run game. which I want to keep. the passing scheme we should use the one Cable used at UCLA when they were in the top 5 for least amount of sacks allowed even though they had one of the top amount of passing attempts. the pass pro has been a lot better this year but the injuries at G have been hurting us. Cable ran a ZBS run game in college though. that's part of why I wanted Mo Jones-Drew last year. We could increase the size of the player from the 285 pounders we have to a 305-315 pounder. especially at C. We need to replace McClure (285) with Satele (311)
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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McClure is a FA, so we need to upgrade over him. Then get Forney back, move Ojinnaka to LG, we'd be set.
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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McClure is a FA, so we need to upgrade over him. Then get Forney back, move Ojinnaka to LG, we'd be set.
I would rather move Gandy to LG and have Omiyale at LT. Omiyale is quicker and if we get Satele our OL would be around what I want it to be:

LT - Omiyale (6'4" 310) backed up by Ojinnaka (6'4" 297) and Clabo (6'6" 315)
LG - Gandy (6'4" 315) backed up by Clabo (6'6" 315) and Lehr (6'3" 304)
C - Satele (6'3" 311) backed up by Lehr (6'3" 304)
RG - Forney (6'3" 307) backed up by Clabo (6'6" 315) and Lehr (6'3" 304)
RT - Wiener (6'5" 298) backed up by Ojinnaka (6'4" 297) and Clabo (6'6" 315)

we would only have 8 lineman under contract but out overall team would be better in pass blocking and the run blocking would be better at the goal line and the same everywhere else.
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Looking at our schedule; we have three easy road games, three challenging home games. This is Mora's last chance, I hope he makes good on it. Because 10-6, is a home playoff game in the NFC.
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Old 11-22-2006, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
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Looking at our schedule; we have three easy road games, three challenging home games. This is Mora's last chance, I hope he makes good on it. Because 10-6, is a home playoff game in the NFC.
I want to see 11-5 and #2 seed again.
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Old 11-22-2006, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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My Idea for a mock draft:
trade Schaub for a first:
1a) DE LaMarr Woodley (Michigan) 6'2" 268
Woodley would give us another Abraham type end and would be a good replacement for Kerney either now or in the future. We could run a very good 4-3 or 3-4 front with the front 7 this pick would give us.
1b) FS Reggie Nelson (Florida) 6'1" 175
we need a guy who can actually cover at FS. Nelson gives us the perfect cover man and he is a solid hitter. we would be better off with him at FS and moving Crocker to SS and having Milloy as the #3 S.
2) SS Aaron Rouse (Virginia Tech) 6'4" 225
He would be a pick to be our backup SS and rotate in at LB as well. we would use him as a rover role for the 4-4-3 as well. We would groom him to eventually take over at SS and he would be good as a reserve for the first few years.
3) OC Samson Satele (Hawaii) 6'3" 311
get him in to start right away. his size is an upgrade in the middle and his overall quickness is better than McClure.
4a) TE Scott Chandler (Iowa) 6'7" 257
his height would help Vick see him better, but his blocking is why this pick works well. he has good hands but he is the guy who I see as Crumps eventual replacement.
4b) OG Mansfield Wrotto (Georgia Tech) 6'3" 310
he is a very quick guy for his size having played Defensive tackle and Offensive tackle at GT. his overall size speed combos is what we look for at Guard and while he is a bit raw in terms of technique he is what a guy like Gibbs would look for. his pass blocking is already very good though and he has long arms for his size. he needs to learn a run blockign scheme to help his progression but that only means he would be the perfect guy for us.
5) QB Jeff Rowe (Nevada) 6'5" 225
Schaub's replacement.
6) RB Justin Vincent (LSU) 5'10" 223
the power complement to Norwood in the future. Reminds me of Mike Anderson.


Roster after draft:

QB - Vick/Shockley/Rowe
RB - Dunn/Norwood/Vincent
FB - Griffith/McCrary
WR - Lelie/White/Jennings
WR - Jenkins/Finneran
TE - Crumpler/Blakely/Chandler
LT - Gandy (315)/Omiyale (310)
LG - Clabo (315)/Lehr (304)/Wrotto (310)
C - Satele (311)/Lehr (304)
RG - Forney (307)/Wrotto (310)
RT - Wiener (298)/Ojinnaka (297)

LE - Woodley/Carrington
NT - Grady/Tommy/Shropshire
UT - Coleman/Babineaux/Shropshire
RE - Abraham/Davis
WLB - Brooking/Williams
MLB - Hartwell/Beck
SLB - Boley/Beck/Reese
LCB - Hall/Cash/Lowe/Rossum
RCB - Williams/Webster
FS - Nelson/Crocker
SS - Crocker/Milloy/Lowe
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:05 AM    (permalink
iloxygenil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scar988
My Idea for a mock draft:
trade Schaub for a first:
1a) DE LaMarr Woodley (Michigan) 6'2" 268
Woodley would give us another Abraham type end and would be a good replacement for Kerney either now or in the future. We could run a very good 4-3 or 3-4 front with the front 7 this pick would give us.
1b) FS Reggie Nelson (Florida) 6'1" 175
we need a guy who can actually cover at FS. Nelson gives us the perfect cover man and he is a solid hitter. we would be better off with him at FS and moving Crocker to SS and having Milloy as the #3 S.
2) SS Aaron Rouse (Virginia Tech) 6'4" 225
He would be a pick to be our backup SS and rotate in at LB as well. we would use him as a rover role for the 4-4-3 as well. We would groom him to eventually take over at SS and he would be good as a reserve for the first few years.
3) OC Samson Satele (Hawaii) 6'3" 311
get him in to start right away. his size is an upgrade in the middle and his overall quickness is better than McClure.
4a) TE Scott Chandler (Iowa) 6'7" 257
his height would help Vick see him better, but his blocking is why this pick works well. he has good hands but he is the guy who I see as Crumps eventual replacement.
4b) OG Mansfield Wrotto (Georgia Tech) 6'3" 310
he is a very quick guy for his size having played Defensive tackle and Offensive tackle at GT. his overall size speed combos is what we look for at Guard and while he is a bit raw in terms of technique he is what a guy like Gibbs would look for. his pass blocking is already very good though and he has long arms for his size. he needs to learn a run blockign scheme to help his progression but that only means he would be the perfect guy for us.
5) QB Jeff Rowe (Nevada) 6'5" 225
Schaub's replacement.
6) RB Justin Vincent (LSU) 5'10" 223
the power complement to Norwood in the future. Reminds me of Mike Anderson.
Beautiful...pretty much amazing draft. I'd like to see a WR and CB in there somewhere...also we get another pick from Schaffer...we just don't know where yet. We'll see, but nice draft Scar...we like many of the same players...like normal.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:11 AM    (permalink
scar988
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scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scar988 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iloxygenil
Quote:
Originally Posted by scar988
My Idea for a mock draft:
trade Schaub for a first:
1a) DE LaMarr Woodley (Michigan) 6'2" 268
Woodley would give us another Abraham type end and would be a good replacement for Kerney either now or in the future. We could run a very good 4-3 or 3-4 front with the front 7 this pick would give us.
1b) FS Reggie Nelson (Florida) 6'1" 175
we need a guy who can actually cover at FS. Nelson gives us the perfect cover man and he is a solid hitter. we would be better off with him at FS and moving Crocker to SS and having Milloy as the #3 S.
2) SS Aaron Rouse (Virginia Tech) 6'4" 225
He would be a pick to be our backup SS and rotate in at LB as well. we would use him as a rover role for the 4-4-3 as well. We would groom him to eventually take over at SS and he would be good as a reserve for the first few years.
3) OC Samson Satele (Hawaii) 6'3" 311
get him in to start right away. his size is an upgrade in the middle and his overall quickness is better than McClure.
4a) TE Scott Chandler (Iowa) 6'7" 257
his height would help Vick see him better, but his blocking is why this pick works well. he has good hands but he is the guy who I see as Crumps eventual replacement.
4b) OG Mansfield Wrotto (Georgia Tech) 6'3" 310
he is a very quick guy for his size having played Defensive tackle and Offensive tackle at GT. his overall size speed combos is what we look for at Guard and while he is a bit raw in terms of technique he is what a guy like Gibbs would look for. his pass blocking is already very good though and he has long arms for his size. he needs to learn a run blockign scheme to help his progression but that only means he would be the perfect guy for us.
5) QB Jeff Rowe (Nevada) 6'5" 225
Schaub's replacement.
6) RB Justin Vincent (LSU) 5'10" 223
the power complement to Norwood in the future. Reminds me of Mike Anderson.
Beautiful...pretty much amazing draft. I'd like to see a WR and CB in there somewhere...also we get another pick from Schaffer...we just don't know where yet. We'll see, but nice draft Scar...we like many of the same players...like normal.
we don't need a CB in the draft. between Hall, Williams and Webster we have a good top 3. we need to get another nickel type and with rossum as the #5/RS we are good at CB. but between Williams and Hall we will have our starters. Webster will be the nickel. hopefully we get Cash back. then we will have 2 good starters. 2 good nickel types. and a RS/emergency CB. At WR, IMO we need a new coach not a new WR. We need to re-sign Lelie and have a WR corps like this:
#1 - Lelie
#2 - Jenkins
#3 - White
#4 - Finneran
#5 - Jennings
and at WR Coach:





Terence Mathis.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:34 AM    (permalink
Shiver
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I think White is catching on slowly, he's having a sophomore slump, but when he's on he's our best receiver. I think our receivers will get over the dropsies, it's a problem with a lot of young guys. It's concentration, pure and simple. Even Jerry Rice was being called out, because of his.

As for the draft, I agree, we need interior O-Line, DE and S as our biggest needs. Even if we resign Kerney, which isn't set in stone, we still need more depth. Especially considering we have John Abraham.
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