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Old 03-29-2008, 05:20 PM    (permalink
nyjets5125
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As long as they stay away from those, I would be happy with just about anyone. Except Mario Manningham.
im just curious to why you think that
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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im just curious to why you think that
A deep threat who showed a poor 40 time at the combine, and has problem catching the football.

The Jets just got rid of Justin McCareins, they don't need another one.
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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A deep threat who showed a poor 40 time at the combine, and has problem catching the football.

The Jets just got rid of Justin McCareins, they don't need another one.
he showed at his pro day that the reason for his bad 40 time was his technique...im a huge michigan fan so ive watrched him play for 3 years...he plays much faster than his 40 indicates and has a knack for making big plays (i was at the game his freshman year against PSU when they knocked off undefeated PSU with a manningham TD catch to win with no time left)...the drops are a little scary but i would definitely not be upset with him in round 2...he is first round talent and his 40 time is wrongfully dropping him in the rankings...hes not my 1st choice for WR and i would rather a tall RZ threat (hardy, thomas, kelly, etc.) but i would definitely not be upset with the pick

and whats wrong with him being a deep threat? idk if that was sarcastic but if it was then you must not have watched him because he is definitely a deep threat
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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You never know how a deep threat is going to translate from college to the pros, it's just never certain that it's going to work out. Between that, his tendency to drop the ball, and his supposed attitude issues, I don't think he's going to be the kind of guy we go after. Marcus Monk who graduated in 3.5 years, had nice college production, and ran a 4.41 and 4.43 at 6'4 at his Pro Day seems more like the kind of wideout we'll target if we don't trade down in round 1, I don't see much of a downside at all if we grab him in the mid rounds besides some minor injury problems. Seems like a nice guy to potentially develop.
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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he showed at his pro day that the reason for his bad 40 time was his technique...im a huge michigan fan so ive watrched him play for 3 years...he plays much faster than his 40 indicates and has a knack for making big plays (i was at the game his freshman year against PSU when they knocked off undefeated PSU with a manningham TD catch to win with no time left)...the drops are a little scary but i would definitely not be upset with him in round 2...he is first round talent and his 40 time is wrongfully dropping him in the rankings...hes not my 1st choice for WR and i would rather a tall RZ threat (hardy, thomas, kelly, etc.) but i would definitely not be upset with the pick

and whats wrong with him being a deep threat? idk if that was sarcastic but if it was then you must not have watched him because he is definitely a deep threat
Yes I did watch him. I watched him draft a ton of passes and as a result, I don't want him within a ten foot poll of the Jets. The first responsibility of a wide receiver is to catch the football. If you can't, it doesn't matter how fast you are, you're going to fail in the NFL. As far as Manningham's running technique goes, I've heard that was because of his lack of preparation for the combine. That makes me wonder, if he couldn't be arsed to be prepared for one of the most important days of his life, the NFL combine, doesn't that reflect poorly on him?

As for him being a deep threat, IIRC, so was McCareins once upon a time.
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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I'm currently re-tweaking my mock and I've got two different scenarios pretty well fleshed out but most of it depends on the Jets. The Jets have given me plenty of grief because I have Gholston, Long, Long, and McFadden gone and not much value left. I don't see anyone wanting to trade up. So given that I think either one of the two are most likely:

Situation A
6) Leodis McKelvin
36) Cliff Avril

Situation B
6) Derrick Harvey
36) Pat Lee

I actually prefer A for the Jets as an outsider but I've heard that the staff wants Miller to actually become a a real corner and I'm not entirely familiar with the players so I'm asking you: Which is most likely? By the way, I had assumed that after the Dewayne Robertson bust neither Dorsey nor Ellis would be the pick, and Keith Rivers is the only other value that I believe the team is considering. Still, I think the Pats might take Harvey at 7 if the Jets don't so its not really a stretch.
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure which is more likely as we've kept things pretty quiet but I definitely prefer the first. I think the difference between McKelvin and Lee is relatively considerable, and I really think Avril's a great pick for us and a nice fit as well. Also supposedly we offered Samuel big money last minute so it's not like we're totally sold on our CB situation right now.

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Old 03-30-2008, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure which is more likely as we've kept things pretty quiet but I definitely prefer the second. I think the difference between McKelvin and Lee is relatively considerable, and I really think Avril's a great pick for us and a nice fit as well. Also supposedly we offered Samuel big money last minute so it's not like we're totally sold on our CB situation right now.
haha so woulndt thta be preferring the first?
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Yes I did watch him. I watched him draft a ton of passes and as a result, I don't want him within a ten foot poll of the Jets. The first responsibility of a wide receiver is to catch the football. If you can't, it doesn't matter how fast you are, you're going to fail in the NFL. As far as Manningham's running technique goes, I've heard that was because of his lack of preparation for the combine. That makes me wonder, if he couldn't be arsed to be prepared for one of the most important days of his life, the NFL combine, doesn't that reflect poorly on him?

As for him being a deep threat, IIRC, so was McCareins once upon a time.
i said i woudlnt target him as one of my top choices at WR but i definitely wouldnt mind him in round 2 if value isnt there at other positions that we need...hes quick enough to be a slot reciever now and can make some big plays which we are lacking...and then i think that he can be a solid #2 in the NFL and has a shot at a #1 as he progresses...the only problem woudl be if he maxes out at a #2 and we have 2 #2s and no true #1
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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haha so woulndt thta be preferring the first?
Haha yeah good call bro.

I'm wondering what people's feelings on drafting Matt Ryan at 6 are. Obviously there's a lot of trust for the FO but I wonder what people would think of that. Our QB situation is certainly not the best in the league and drafting Ryan would be admitting we made a mistake with Clemens. I personally think it's too soon to admit we were wrong on Clemens but at the same time if Clemens is bad this upcoming year there's no real options at QB in next year's draft (or so it seems now, I know it's early) and if that ends up being the case a "win now" team would really be set back. I'm not sure how I feel honestly, we have so much stock in Clemens right now and we really have a very sticky QB situation. What does everyone else think?
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Race for the Heisman View Post
I'm currently re-tweaking my mock and I've got two different scenarios pretty well fleshed out but most of it depends on the Jets. The Jets have given me plenty of grief because I have Gholston, Long, Long, and McFadden gone and not much value left. I don't see anyone wanting to trade up. So given that I think either one of the two are most likely:

Situation A
6) Leodis McKelvin
36) Cliff Avril

Situation B
6) Derrick Harvey
36) Pat Lee

I actually prefer A for the Jets as an outsider but I've heard that the staff wants Miller to actually become a a real corner and I'm not entirely familiar with the players so I'm asking you: Which is most likely? By the way, I had assumed that after the Dewayne Robertson bust neither Dorsey nor Ellis would be the pick, and Keith Rivers is the only other value that I believe the team is considering. Still, I think the Pats might take Harvey at 7 if the Jets don't so its not really a stretch.

I personally do not want to see the Jets draft a CB at the 6 spot. Hopefully Miller will progess and we can string together another year out of the rest. Basically we have addressed CB several times in the last 3 years (Law, Dyson, Straight, Miller, Revis) at the expense of other needs.

Besides even if we had Mike Haynes, Lester Hayes, Darrel Green, Ronnie Lott and Ken Houston back there Mangini the Mad Scientist of Defensive backs would find a way to work Drew Coleman and Hank Poteat into the rotation.
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Haha yeah good call bro.

I'm wondering what people's feelings on drafting Matt Ryan at 6 are. Obviously there's a lot of trust for the FO but I wonder what people would think of that. Our QB situation is certainly not the best in the league and drafting Ryan would be admitting we made a mistake with Clemens. I personally think it's too soon to admit we were wrong on Clemens but at the same time if Clemens is bad this upcoming year there's no real options at QB in next year's draft (or so it seems now, I know it's early) and if that ends up being the case a "win now" team would really be set back. I'm not sure how I feel honestly, we have so much stock in Clemens right now and we really have a very sticky QB situation. What does everyone else think?
If he was there and we couldnt trade out I would draft him presuming Gholston, McFadden and the Longs were gone.
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Old 03-30-2008, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I personally do not want to see the Jets draft a CB at the 6 spot. Hopefully Miller will progess and we can string together another year out of the rest. Basically we have addressed CB several times in the last 3 years (Law, Dyson, Straight, Miller, Revis) at the expense of other needs.

Besides even if we had Mike Haynes, Lester Hayes, Darrel Green, Ronnie Lott and Ken Houston back there Mangini the Mad Scientist of Defensive backs would find a way to work Drew Coleman and Hank Poteat into the rotation.
If you look at the difference between Harvey and Avril and the difference between McKelvin and Lee, I think the difference between McKelvin and Lee is much bigger. In fact, Avril might actually be a better fit for us than Harvey as he's a better athlete and has more experience at the linebacker position. I just think McKelvin and Avril bring more speed, talent, and athleticism to our defense than Harvey and Lee. In fact, I really don't think it's close.
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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If you look at the difference between Harvey and Avril and the difference between McKelvin and Lee, I think the difference between McKelvin and Lee is much bigger. In fact, Avril might actually be a better fit for us than Harvey as he's a better athlete and has more experience at the linebacker position. I just think McKelvin and Avril bring more speed, talent, and athleticism to our defense than Harvey and Lee. In fact, I really don't think it's close.
i agree there, but maybe DRC over mckelvin? or am i just jumping on the DRC bandwagon?

i think DRC and revis would be nasty together, revis has the coverage skills, DRC has the ball skills and potential to take it back the other way on every play...i mentioned much earlier that i would love that and see it as the chargers CBs are now, revis woudl do what jammer does, and DRC would do what his cousin does...thats a pretty scary secondary putting revis and DRC with rhodes back there
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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Haha yeah good call bro.

I'm wondering what people's feelings on drafting Matt Ryan at 6 are. Obviously there's a lot of trust for the FO but I wonder what people would think of that. Our QB situation is certainly not the best in the league and drafting Ryan would be admitting we made a mistake with Clemens. I personally think it's too soon to admit we were wrong on Clemens but at the same time if Clemens is bad this upcoming year there's no real options at QB in next year's draft (or so it seems now, I know it's early) and if that ends up being the case a "win now" team would really be set back. I'm not sure how I feel honestly, we have so much stock in Clemens right now and we really have a very sticky QB situation. What does everyone else think?
i really dont like matt ryan as a high pick...if we were to go QB, which i wouldnt really want to but wouldnt mind if somebody fell to us outside of round 1 and think we probably should bring in somebody like round 4-7, but i definitely would not want ryan 1st round...im not as high on ryan as most people are, and actually would possibly prefer both brohm and henne to him (henne might be because of my bias as a michigan fan)...but i would much rather brohm/henne/maybe flacco round 2 than ryan round 1 IF WE WENT QB WHICH I WOULDNT WANT ON DAY 1
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Old 03-30-2008, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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i agree there, but maybe DRC over mckelvin? or am i just jumping on the DRC bandwagon?

i think DRC and revis would be nasty together, revis has the coverage skills, DRC has the ball skills and potential to take it back the other way on every play...i mentioned much earlier that i would love that and see it as the chargers CBs are now, revis woudl do what jammer does, and DRC would do what his cousin does...thats a pretty scary secondary putting revis and DRC with rhodes back there
I like DRC but McKelvin seems like a much safer guy to have in there to me. I think the only areas DRC has him in are ball skills and speed. McKelvin can stick with guys in coverage and has added value as a return guy, and although we have nice kick returners our punt return game could use a shot in the arm. I know DRC has had a tremendous offseason but at the same time taking a guy that didn't seem to dominate even at the 1-AA level is frightening for me, especially at the 6 slot. I do agree a guy with nice ball skills across from Revis is nice but I think McKelvin is a safer pick and just would add some nice things to our team. This pick is one we really can't afford to miss on IMO.
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:30 AM    (permalink
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I keep on reading TONS of rumors about Glenn Dorsey going #2 Overall. Now personally, id crap my pants if this were to happen, and I WOULDN'T trade down.

If Dorsey is selected at #2, one of the two DE/OLBs should be available. At #1, I seriously see parcells taking Jake Long. He is proven to be one of the best prospects in this draft. Also, Miami is lacking an offensive line which becomes a bigger need then an OLB for Parcells. I still wouldn't be shocked or confused if Chris Long or Vernon were selected here, but I feel as if they will select Jake Long and then any of the QB prospects that fall down to the second round.

At #2 is Dorsey, and I won't give an analysis on this pick because I stated that St. Louis are believed to want him.

At #3 is Atlanta and they will select Matt Ryan. They need a pocket passer and need a QB that can spread the field. This is the one definate pick in the draft that I see going down if a player is there. Matt Ryan is goin to be the signal caller in Atlanta.

At #4 is where we get tough. We know Al Davis and how he loves Physical Phenoms. This leads me to believe Gholston or Run DMC would be selected here but don't count out Chris Long again. All of these guys can help Oakland no matter where they play. I feel becuase of the abilities of Chris Long and his blood lines Al would be forced to draft him, but as stated before, both Gholston and Run DMC are more machines then human and he just loves Physical Specimens so, any of these three go here.

At #5 is going to be some type of Offensive Lineman. Whether its Otah or Clady, one of them are going to go here, and if Matt Ryan makes it to this pick, Herman will jump all over him like there is no tomorrow.

This puts us at 6. With one of the three here, Gholston, Chris Long, or McFadden. Yea, im a bit terrified that New England is going to get whoever we don't. Chris Long is the pick I want. He fits in perfectly and has those Tanginiables that I speak of. Gholston can also be a great fit here because he is just a natural freak and the same is spoken for McFadden. So seriously, if this turns out being how it's going to be, we shouldn't trade down.
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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I keep on reading TONS of rumors about Glenn Dorsey going #2 Overall. Now personally, id crap my pants if this were to happen, and I WOULDN'T trade down.

If Dorsey is selected at #2, one of the two DE/OLBs should be available. At #1, I seriously see parcells taking Jake Long. He is proven to be one of the best prospects in this draft. Also, Miami is lacking an offensive line which becomes a bigger need then an OLB for Parcells. I still wouldn't be shocked or confused if Chris Long or Vernon were selected here, but I feel as if they will select Jake Long and then any of the QB prospects that fall down to the second round.

At #2 is Dorsey, and I won't give an analysis on this pick because I stated that St. Louis are believed to want him.

At #3 is Atlanta and they will select Matt Ryan. They need a pocket passer and need a QB that can spread the field. This is the one definate pick in the draft that I see going down if a player is there. Matt Ryan is goin to be the signal caller in Atlanta.

At #4 is where we get tough. We know Al Davis and how he loves Physical Phenoms. This leads me to believe Gholston or Run DMC would be selected here but don't count out Chris Long again. All of these guys can help Oakland no matter where they play. I feel becuase of the abilities of Chris Long and his blood lines Al would be forced to draft him, but as stated before, both Gholston and Run DMC are more machines then human and he just loves Physical Specimens so, any of these three go here.

At #5 is going to be some type of Offensive Lineman. Whether its Otah or Clady, one of them are going to go here, and if Matt Ryan makes it to this pick, Herman will jump all over him like there is no tomorrow.

This puts us at 6. With one of the three here, Gholston, Chris Long, or McFadden. Yea, im a bit terrified that New England is going to get whoever we don't. Chris Long is the pick I want. He fits in perfectly and has those Tanginiables that I speak of. Gholston can also be a great fit here because he is just a natural freak and the same is spoken for McFadden. So seriously, if this turns out being how it's going to be, we shouldn't trade down.
never thought there would be a scenario that Jake Long & Gholston would both be there...but I LIKE IT. I would take Gholston at that point but would not be disapointed with Jake either.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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i hope you mean chris...
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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He's got Jake Long going #1 in that mock, so it's either Chris Long/Gholston available at 6 depending on who Oakland takes. Possibly both if they go after DMC. It's definitely a nice mock, but I do see Chris Long going #1 and think Atlanta and Oakland are big time wild cards. If the Rams go Dorsey as you say I wouldn't be shocked to see a scenario like:

Miami - Chris Long
St. Louis - Dorsey
Atlanta - Jake Long
Oakland - Gholston
KC - Otah/Clady

Which leaves us to choose between DMC and Matt Ryan. I think there will be somebody that we like at 6, I'm just not sure what the FO is thinking.



Also, rumors are flying about what we're targeting at 36. QB, WR, CB, ILB, so that should be a really interesting pick I think we're going to get a great player at that spot. Looks like we're considering QB in this draft, at least doing our homework which shows that we're unsure about the QB situation. Supposedly Penny WILL be with the team in '08 and also Tangini will be back in '09 regardless of what happens this season. I think keeping Tangini around is a good move, it'd be great to get some continuity in here I think that really really helps teams out a lot.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:46 AM    (permalink
Young Nasty Man
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I heard the same exact thing. About the second round. Part of me is wanting Miami not to draft Chris Long and the other part is me wanting us to trade up so ill see.

I wouldn't mind Curtis Lofton, James Hardy, Joe Flacco, or a corner dropping in the second. So Im liking this as a possible draft.

1. Chris Long :)
2. James Hardy
3. Cason
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nyjets5125 View Post
i said i woudlnt target him as one of my top choices at WR but i definitely wouldnt mind him in round 2 if value isnt there at other positions that we need...hes quick enough to be a slot reciever now and can make some big plays which we are lacking...and then i think that he can be a solid #2 in the NFL and has a shot at a #1 as he progresses...the only problem woudl be if he maxes out at a #2 and we have 2 #2s and no true #1
I wouldn't mind a WR in the second round, but for the reasons I have already mentioned, I really don't want the Jets to draft him. He's one of those people I have rated way lower than anyone else.

As for drafting a cornerback. I'm warning to the idea that if Gholston and McFadden are gone, thats the direction the Jets should go. Its a lesser need and probably a reach, but when you think about it,

Its a bigger need than yet another QB to develop
#2 corner is probably a bigger need than #3 WR and I'd say a better value too
Glenn Dorsey and Sedrick Ellis really don't fit the 3-4
Like Dorsey and Ellis, Keith Rivers would be great if the Jets ran a 4-3, but they don't.

I'm not going to try to say which one the Jets should draft because if I have learned anything about the last three drafts, its that I suck at evaluating defensive backs.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I definitely think that cornerback is a solid direction for us to go in. Ideally a trade down would be nice, but it seems like if we stand pat at 6 McKelvin is pretty much universally viewed as the drafts top CB and he's not a bad fit. The other guy that's up there Rodgers-Cromartie, and while there's no denying his talent and bloodlines drating a 1-AA corner at number six overall is just frightening. Beyond that, McKelvin brings some added value as a return guy (unless I'm completely wrong our punt returners haven't been all that fantastic). I don't think his ball skills (mostly hands) are that great and he's not going to pick off a ton of passes but he's a solid cover guy and probably the best option if we're stuck at 6. I certainly think he's safer than DRC at 6. Less upside, but less downside too. Maybe I'm just completely wrong I'm no expert either but that's the way I see it.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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I definitely think that cornerback is a solid direction for us to go in. Ideally a trade down would be nice, but it seems like if we stand pat at 6 McKelvin is pretty much universally viewed as the drafts top CB and he's not a bad fit. The other guy that's up there Rodgers-Cromartie, and while there's no denying his talent and bloodlines drating a 1-AA corner at number six overall is just frightening. Beyond that, McKelvin brings some added value as a return guy (unless I'm completely wrong our punt returners haven't been all that fantastic). I don't think his ball skills (mostly hands) are that great and he's not going to pick off a ton of passes but he's a solid cover guy and probably the best option if we're stuck at 6. I certainly think he's safer than DRC at 6. Less upside, but less downside too. Maybe I'm just completely wrong I'm no expert either but that's the way I see it.
We'll be to cornerbacks wthat the Lions are to WR...LOL
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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We'll be to cornerbacks wthat the Lions are to WR...LOL
Only if the Jets draft a corner in the first AND he doesn't work out. And even then, thats a bit of a stretch because while Justin Miller hasn't been all that was advertized, he isn't completely useless a la Charles Rogers. And Miller was a second round pick, not a second overall pick.
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