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Old 04-25-2009, 07:25 PM    (permalink
AlexDown
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We swapped first rounders, we didn't give up a first.
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nj. View Post
We gave up so much to get Sanchez that it's ridiculous.
1st rounder
2nd rounder
Brett Ratliff
Abram Elam

I don't know if anyone remembers but Elam had a great year this year and losing Ratliff means that we have no flexibility in trading Clemens for picks because Clemens in the only backup we have now, Erik Ainge is not being considered a legitimate back up
It really wasn't a terrible trade. I mean we gave up a lot, but at the same time the second rounder was in no man's land, Ratliff probably wasn't going to start for us anyway, Elam wasn't going to start, and obviously Rex didn't love Coleman for this scheme. He was a fringe starter anyway.

Elam had some moments, but you have to remember he was bad in coverage and he was just a depth guy. He wasn't starting. None of the players we gave up were proven NFL starters. It's considerably better than giving up the future first I thought we were going to have to trade when I saw we were moving up to 5.

If we traded Ratliff and didn't draft Sanchez I could see an issue, but we're three deep at QB anyway and I don't think Clemens would have had much value. Plus Ainge could develop into a backup after this year.


At this point my major concern is who starts. I do not think Sanchez should be thrust into the starting role. I also do not think there should be a competition, because if Clemens wins the media will eat management and Sanchez alive. We should hand it to Clemens for the year and see what happens after that.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nj. View Post
We gave up so much to get Sanchez that it's ridiculous.
1st rounder
2nd rounder
Brett Ratliff
Abram Elam

I don't know if anyone remembers but Elam had a great year this year and losing Ratliff means that we have no flexibility in trading Clemens for picks because Clemens in the only backup we have now, Erik Ainge is not being considered a legitimate back up
Are you being serious? I disagree.

We swapped 1st round picks, so we didn't necessarily give one up. So we gained there. Coleman was a fringe starter that needed to be upgraded, and honestly, isn't a big loss in the slightest. Elam made a few big plays, but he blew more than his fair share of plays in coverage, he was a fringe starter who is easily replaced and probably would have been replaced with Rex Ryans Baltimore boy anyway. Ratliff would have been our backup, or, would have been 3rd string for us and has proven nothing outside of preseason. Probability he does nothing in his career is greater than that of him having huge success. He is all unseen potential.

so we gave up a 2nd rounder, 2 fringe starters, and an unproven backup. I'd lean on the side that says, sweet deal. I'm all for it.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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I just got back from the Jets draft party in Farmingdale. And I'm never going back to the draft.

I will say this. The ESPN radio hosts asked us if we liked the Sanchez deal. We booed. They asked us if we would have preferred Michael Crabtree. We cheered.

And I got a Jets banner signed by Greg Buttle, who I also talked to about drafting a franchise QB vs. drafting a WR.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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It really wasn't a terrible trade. I mean we gave up a lot, but at the same time the second rounder was in no man's land, Ratliff probably wasn't going to start for us anyway, Elam wasn't going to start, and obviously Rex didn't love Coleman for this scheme. He was a fringe starter anyway.
Agreed, we gave up a 1 and 2 and 3 depth guys...looking at the trade value chart I think we made out. Watching ESPN and Steve Young fawn all over this guy makes me think maybe we are on to something. Not sure if this gives us any cap space with the 3 guys out the door but all in all well done.

I know we are weak at WR (I have been clamoring for one for years-but who was left at 17? Only Maclin was worth taking there) but if the guy is a franchise QB then we made one hell of a deal.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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The only thing that may have been at the same level would have been had we traded to 8 and been able to get either Sanchez or Crabtree. I would have been super pumped with either. Thing is, who knows what we would have given up had we waited until 8. I really don't think we gave up anything considerable to get to #5. Freeman would have been at 17 probably. However, other than Maclin, who wouldn't have fit the mold of what we wanted at WR, would have been available. So it would have been Maclin, Freeman, or trade down type of option.

I'm very happy with what happened. Anytime you take a QB high there is a bust chance, but you gotta try, and i'm very excited.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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Im not high on Sanchez but that was a great deal for us. We gave up a bunch of backups and 2 picks for Sanchez.

If we stayed at 17 we could have had Maclin.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Who do you guys think we are taking tomorrow?
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Who do you guys think we are taking tomorrow?
Im hoping either Louis Murphy or Ramses Barden.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Im hoping either Louis Murphy or Ramses Barden.
I agree with you on both of those. Louis Murphy is the only WR left in the draft who has speed that can be a solid starting WR in the NFL. Ramses Barden would give us height and be a redzone target.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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I think that we got a semi-steal out of that Sanchez trade. I say semi because there are no guarantees in the NFL draft. Coleman wasn't going to fit and helped free up cap space, drafting Sanchez all but ended Ratliff's chances so he wasn't as valuable, and Elam kind of hurts our secondary depth but he's no deal breaker. I didn't mind giving up the 2nd rounder at all because we are getting OUR quarterback for the next 10-15 years hopefully.

I don't get how any other Jet fans can boo this pick, you're pretty much booing the fact that we are trying to put together a dominant franchise for the next decade or so. You gotta give it to Tannenbaum and the rest of the front office, in the past year and a half they have done everything possible to help this franchise excel. I dont see a reason to boo that.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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You can't fault the Jets for making a move to get a potential franchise QB for the next 10-15 years, especially considering that they did not give up a future first to move up 12 spots.

I was never a big fan of Clemens, but regardless it is disappointing to see that the franchise didn't believe he could be our future QB.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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I agree. The thing is, no one is ever sold on a QB because of the huge risk tha tthey bust. When a QB busts it is much bigger than any other position. You can find a downside in drafting almost any QB, and you are always passing up other talent. This was a great move by management. People viewed Crabtree as a lesser risk, but the fact is, you need a QB to succeed. I wasn't as down on Kellen as much as a lot of people, but i like this move, and it shows that mannagement is trying to solve the QB position. At worst we get one out of Sanchez and Kellen to be a starter, i don't see that as a negative. The options at #17 weren't anythign special relative to our needs, and it isn't like we gave up anything considerable.....people just love to boo. Hell, Lions fans didn't want a QB.....
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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You can't fault the Jets for making a move to get a potential franchise QB for the next 10-15 years, especially considering that they did not give up a future first to move up 12 spots.

I was never a big fan of Clemens, but regardless it is disappointing to see that the franchise didn't believe he could be our future QB.
he was a Mangini guy, was he not?
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Gilbert is still on the board too and after trading coleman, i would love for us to draft him
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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he was a Mangini guy, was he not?
I don't know if he was a Mangini guy. I do know he never got a legitimate shot. And I also know that Ratliff was part of that deal to Mangini (I'm saying Mangini instead of Cleveland to further illustrate this point) and Clemens was not.

You need a QB to succeed (unless you're Baltimore) but a QB isn't going to succeed if he doesn't have the tools to work with.

Is Mark Sanchez throwing to Jerricho Cotchery and Chansi Stuckey better than Kellen Clemens throwing to Michael Crabtree/Jeremy Maclin and Jerricho Cotchery?
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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By the way. Danny Woodhead........ is really short.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Is Mark Sanchez throwing to Jerricho Cotchery and Chansi Stuckey better than Kellen Clemens throwing to Michael Crabtree/Jeremy Maclin and Jerricho Cotchery?
Sanchez will get some weapons to work with eventually. He isn't on this team for only a year. So I don't see how that question is relevant. Maybe Clemens is more pro ready, as he should be, but the Jets obviously felt he was not the answer / or a franchise QB.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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By the way. Danny Woodhead........ is really short.
Whatever happened to him?
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Whatever happened to him?
Jets still have him and he's been getting tons of reps in camp with Jones out. He was on IR last year with a serious knee injury. He was one of those injured/waived guys. He's still a Jet, though.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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Sanchez will get some weapons to work with eventually. He isn't on this team for only a year. So I don't see how that question is relevant. Maybe Clemens is more pro ready, as he should be, but the Jets obviously felt he was not the answer / or a franchise QB.
Four years after Chad Pennington began starting, the Jets drafted a QB day 1 (Kellen Clemens). Three years later (now), they drafted another QB day 1 (Mark Sanchez).

QB's have not been getting an extended opportunity to show what they can do for the Jets. And eventually can be a really long time.

Mark Sanchez will be a Jet for more than one year, but this is New York, and honeymoons with draft picks are really short here. Look no further than Vernon Gholston who many are already calling a bust after all of one year.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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As a huge supporter of Pennington, I am well aware that he, as well as Clemens, has not gotten their fair shake in New York.

However, when you have a chance to lock up a franchise QB, and you have no idea if you have one on your roster, I can't fault the Jets for making the move. I really can't see how anyone can.

I was actually surprised they moved up in the first place, for a QB.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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However, when you have a chance to lock up a franchise QB, and you have no idea if you have one on your roster, I can't fault the Jets for making the move. I really can't see how anyone can.
After hearing every projected 1st round QB referred to as a potential franchise QB, including such gems as Rex Grossman and J.P. Losman, the term has come to mean nothing to me.

But aside from that, what I fault them for is making the move when it looks like guys like Chansi Stuckey are going to be counted on to start. Not as a slot receiver, as the #1 or #2.

I don't want to see the Jets drafting a "potential franchise quarterback" in 2012.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:50 PM    (permalink
AlexDown
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After hearing every projected 1st round QB referred to as a potential franchise QB, including such gems as Rex Grossman and J.P. Losman, the term has come to mean nothing to me.
The chances of getting a franchise QB after the first round, or even after the first 20 picks, is ridiculously low, statistically. So because some in the first round haven't panned out, doesn't really change the fact that it only gets worse the later you pick.

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But aside from that, what I fault them for is making the move when it looks like guys like Chansi Stuckey are going to be counted on to start. Not as a slot receiver, as the #1 or #2.
Agreed. WR is a major concern, but considering we didn't have a QB or a #1 WR, I'll take a the QB position 10 out of 10 times, if I can reasonably get both.

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I don't want to see the Jets drafting a "potential franchise quarterback" in 2012.
Hopefully they won't.
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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The chances of getting a franchise QB after the first round, or even after the first 20 picks, is ridiculously low, statistically. So because some in the first round haven't panned out, doesn't really change the fact that it only gets worse the later you pick.
But when every 1st round graded QB gets that tag, what does it really mean? Its like being a millionaire in Japan (in yen). Doesn't really mean much.

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Agreed. WR is a major concern, but considering we didn't have a QB or a #1 WR, I'll take a the QB position 10 out of 10 times, if I can reasonably get both.
Well, the Jets did have a QB who by your own admission didn't get a fair shake. To me, that is something.

But aside from that, I'm not someone who would take a QB ten times out of ten.

A. I didn't think the Giants should trade up. Mathematically speaking

Eli Manning
Robert Gallery
Larry Fitzgerald
Ben Roethlisberger

one of those four would fall to the Giants at #4 and I thought they'd get a great player whichever one was there.

B. I didn't think the Chargers should give up on Drew Brees.

I looked at his situation in San Diego prior to 2004 and I saw receivers and an offensive line who really didn't belong in the NFL. To me, he didn't get a fair shake prior to 2004.


C. I thought the 49ers should draft Antrel Rolle ahead of Alex Smith. Yeah, Antrel Rolle.

Because I'm really not that good at evaluating DB's and I thought Antrel Rolle would be an all-pro cornerback. That and I looked at Alex Smith as a system QB and Tim Couch v.2.


Now, I'm not someone who never thinks teams should draft QB's in the first round (I think the Vikings really need one). But after seeing all of the "potential franchise QB's" of the past few years, I'm naturally skeptical.

Last edited by Crickett : 02-10-2014 at 12:30 PM.
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