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Old 01-24-2014, 04:18 PM    (permalink
derza222
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Oh I thoroughly agree, I think they'll take someone in the 4th or 5th. Depends who's going to be available in that range. I could buy a wide variety of people. Boyd, Brett Smith, Garoppolo, or Fales could make sense somewhere in that area as well. Obviously depends where guys end up going come draft day.

Wherever that point in the draft where Nassib, Tyler Wilson, and I forget who else went is kind of where I'm thinking Idzik snaps up a guy. And I think they have to sign a vet.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Has Shaun Hill been mentioned? He's a good backup at the very least - I'd argue better than Geno but it's hard to say since he hasn't played much the past few years. Did he have any ties with MM?

I'd be OK with Vick but he'd struggle a lot I think.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Oh I did not know that Keith Wenning was a long snapper.


Anyway, I would prefer to have 2 quarterbacks on the roster with one at the taxi squad. Since Jets already signed Matt Simms, he could be our number two quarterback instead of signing a veteran. Rex Ryan needs to stop carrying 3 qbs because the extra spot could be used for WR or OLB or S (Preferably).


Since Jets have about 10-12 draft picks to start off, I can see them snatching up a qb but it should happen no earlier than 5th round because Jets need to fill up several critical positions with better talents than qb.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:29 PM    (permalink
derza222
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Has Shaun Hill been mentioned? He's a good backup at the very least - I'd argue better than Geno but it's hard to say since he hasn't played much the past few years. Did he have any ties with MM?

I'd be OK with Vick but he'd struggle a lot I think.
You're clearly reading my mind, I almost mentioned Shaun Hill in that post above. I don't know if he has any ties to MM, but he's a pretty solid, realistic backup QB who's been solid in NFL games and could push Geno a bit. Not as good an option as McCown or something, but I'd be surprised if he comes to the Jets and I think I'd prefer Hill to a Henne.

I'd be OK with Vick, I just think he puts the team in a really weird spot. Odds are he's better than Geno right now, but you also know he's not going to make it through a full season and even if he does there's going to be plenty of ups and downs. The Mornhinweg connection is nice.

I'm curious to see where the cap room goes. I'd love to see them make a run at Jarius Byrd, I think that would be a huge signing.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Oh I did not know that Keith Wenning was a long snapper.


Anyway, I would prefer to have 2 quarterbacks on the roster with one at the taxi squad. Since Jets already signed Matt Simms, he could be our number two quarterback instead of signing a veteran. Rex Ryan needs to stop carrying 3 qbs because the extra spot could be used for WR or OLB or S (Preferably).


Since Jets have about 10-12 draft picks to start off, I can see them snatching up a qb but it should happen no earlier than 5th round because Jets need to fill up several critical positions with better talents than qb.
Really? Really?

Geno Smith is not the answer.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Really? Really?

Geno Smith is not the answer.

If he's not going to get a reasonable opportunity to show that he is, why did the Jets draft him? Better yet, if the Jets are going to give up on a rookie quarterback with such laughable receiving talent around him after his rookie season, why should they bother to draft another one?
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm more open to Geno as a possibility than you are, but I think it's a stretch to think that they're going to find a better QB in this draft. Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, and Carr will all likely be gone by 18, and I don't even necessarily like all of those guys. Garoppolo is intriguing, but as a small school guy he's definitely a dice roll - could go either way, but as high as he appears likely to go is he worth the gamble? I don't think he's ready now anyway. Mettenberger I like (caveat, I have to watch more of pretty much all of these guys) but I'm not sure he fits what they want offensively. McCarron I definitely need to watch more of, but I think he slips a bit. Most of the other guys seem like mid-rounders unless they rise some (Brett Smith maybe). I think the best thing to do is something similar to what the Eagles did last year. Capable vet, find a guy who you think fits in the mid-rounds, and the young guy already on the roster.

Obviously Geno struggled a lot as a rookie, but I was encouraged by a couple of things. He doesn't seem to crumble mentally like Sanchez did. Despite the fact that he wants to be a pocket passer, he adjusted to take advantage of his athleticism because it helps his game - which I think was a concession on his part. And he just seems to want to be a great quarterback, putting in a lot of time etc. Now maybe that last bit is off, but they're not going to give up on him yet. Vet to push him and a reasonably talented mid-round dice roll in the draft is the way to go IMO.

Also what Crickett said was essentially one of my first thoughts, but I just forgot to throw it in there. This is a GREAT draft to improve an anemic WR/TE group. That should be a priority. Though I do think they'll find a spot to draft a QB.
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I'd be OK with Vick, I just think he puts the team in a really weird spot. Odds are he's better than Geno right now, but you also know he's not going to make it through a full season and even if he does there's going to be plenty of ups and downs. The Mornhinweg connection is nice.

If Mornhinweg thinks Vick can develop a rapport with Stephen Hill, I think he could be an option. Otherwise he won't give the Jets much of anything and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Jets..

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Old 01-24-2014, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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If Mornhinweg thinks Vick can develop a rapport with Stephen Hill, I think he could be an option. Otherwise he won't give the Jets much of anything and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Jets.
Ultimately it totally boils down to Mornhinweg. If he really bangs the table for Vick, I could see it making sense - especially since he was a factor in drafting Geno and it's in the best interest of his career to see Geno become successful under his watch.

Ultimately it doesn't make sense to undermine the development of your young QB (who they obviously like) without good reason. But at the end of the day I don't think it happens. Something like Hill makes more sense.
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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If he's not going to get a reasonable opportunity to show that he is, why did the Jets draft him? Better yet, if the Jets are going to give up on a rookie quarterback with such laughable receiving talent around him after his rookie season, why should they bother to draft another one?
Why did they draft him? Because he has tools and he was there. You can afford to whiff at pick No. 41. They whiffed. They can move on.

I'm not answering the bold.

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I'm more open to Geno as a possibility than you are, but I think it's a stretch to think that they're going to find a better QB in this draft. Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, and Carr will all likely be gone by 18, and I don't even necessarily like all of those guys. Garoppolo is intriguing, but as a small school guy he's definitely a dice roll - could go either way, but as high as he appears likely to go is he worth the gamble? I don't think he's ready now anyway. Mettenberger I like (caveat, I have to watch more of pretty much all of these guys) but I'm not sure he fits what they want offensively. McCarron I definitely need to watch more of, but I think he slips a bit. Most of the other guys seem like mid-rounders unless they rise some (Brett Smith maybe). I think the best thing to do is something similar to what the Eagles did last year. Capable vet, find a guy who you think fits in the mid-rounds, and the young guy already on the roster.

Obviously Geno struggled a lot as a rookie, but I was encouraged by a couple of things. He doesn't seem to crumble mentally like Sanchez did. Despite the fact that he wants to be a pocket passer, he adjusted to take advantage of his athleticism because it helps his game - which I think was a concession on his part. And he just seems to want to be a great quarterback, putting in a lot of time etc. Now maybe that last bit is off, but they're not going to give up on him yet. Vet to push him and a reasonably talented mid-round dice roll in the draft is the way to go IMO.

Also what Crickett said was essentially one of my first thoughts, but I just forgot to throw it in there. This is a GREAT draft to improve an anemic WR/TE group. That should be a priority. Though I do think they'll find a spot to draft a QB.
He absolutely does seem to crumble mentally. He also doesn't seem like a leader. And he doesn't play well or consistently. If the Jets want an athletic QB to run wild with - they can have their pick of a million better runners than Smith.

Mark Sanchez's worst wasn't as bad as this, guys. I understand optimism but think about it this way - in today's NFL, do you think the rookie who posted the worst rookie season of all time is going to somehow improve so much that he becomes a quality starter? Long odds at the very least.

This is a great WR/TE group. That doesn't mean you can't use a pick or multiple picks on QBs.

I've yet to complete my scouting of all the QBs, but I this class is deeper than usual with draftable guys. To me, I either rank a guy as a first-round, envision him as a franchise guy, OR a guy I'd like to have on my roster - which I'd take in the 3rd-7th. I see a lot of those 3rd-7th guys. And if you plucked two of them, you'd probably find a guy better than Smith.

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If Mornhinweg thinks Vick can develop a rapport with Stephen Hill, I think he could be an option. Otherwise he won't give the Jets much of anything and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Jets..
What on earth am I reading? Stephen Hill is DONE. lol.

I've been accused of being a Seahawks homer before. Some of my opinions on them have been criticized. But I am NOT a Jets homer. I see the team very well and objectively. The fact that some of you are holding out hope that Stephen Hill or Geno Smith will be anything other than below average placeholder starters is laughable. Come on. The Jets need a QB just as bad as a WR or TE.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm not answering the bold.
Well, then how about this one. If the Jets are so keen to replace quarterbacks if they don't set the world on fire as a rookie, given the level of surrounding talent on the Jets offense, which quarterback do you think they should draft in 2015 to replace the one they're going to draft this year?



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What on earth am I reading?
A hypothetical scenario where the Jets bringing in Michael Vick might make sense; involving the one receiver on the Jets roster who at least had at some point the size and speed to take advantage of Michael Vick's arm strength. I have no interest in relying in Stephen Hill for anything. I'd like to see the Jets bring in at least two receivers through the draft and free agency. But IMO, the possibility of salvaging Stephen Hill's career is the only reason to bring in Vick. It's certainly would not for his mentoring ability.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with a few things. Mark Sanchez's worst was absolutely worse than Geno Smith was last year - and he had considerably better players around him his first couple of years too. Sanchez at his worst was consistently horrible - maybe not statistically, but if you watched him. So many dropped interceptions, picks returned for TD's...I still don't see the mental crumbling - poor decisions, but Sanchez would pout and couldn't handle adversity. Geno's bounced back from some tough starts. It's not quite the same, at least not from my perspective. And I agree that they should draft a QB - I just don't think they're in a position to find a franchise QB this draft.

The athleticism wasn't what I was getting at either. It was the fact that he was open to doing something that maybe he didn't want to do or wasn't natural to him in order to improve himself/make the team better. Similar to Ryan being open to a more passing oriented offense and not being so brash. Evidence of a positive character trait.

I think Geno Smith is far from a lock to be a franchise quarterback. And I don't think he should be handed the job. But I would guess he wins the starting position, and we'll see how the season goes. Either he exceeds your low expectations, or they go into the 2015 draft needing a new quarterback.


I'm also looking at things from the perspective of what they're going to do. Idzik isn't going to want to give up on Geno after a year. Two? Sure. And they're not going to be in a good position to draft a first round QB. So they're not getting a new "franchise" guy this year. A dice roll in the mid-rounds? Absolutely. I know you don't like Geno, but realistically the odds that a mid-round pick this year ends up being better than Geno next year aren't great and the odds of the mid-round pick becoming a franchise QB are slim to none. So to me, QB is likely a non-issue or a 2015 issue.

In the meantime, the Jets have absolute crap at the skill positions. So this is a fantastic opportunity to provide a young QB they obviously like with some talent to play with - which he obviously didn't have much of last year. And if it so happens that he bombs this year - which I don't think there's a bad chance of, though I do like him - then whatever QB they elect to bring on board in 2015 walks into a much better situation. And I still think that's the year, because while it's easy to give up on a guy you only invested a second round pick in I don't think they're going to make a huge investment in another QB after the raw rookie they gave no supporting cast closed the season reasonably well. But if he has a rough season this year then I think by all means they blow it up.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Geno didn't have to set the world on fire for me to want to give him another year. He had to not have the worst season ever for a rookie QB.

Everything he does looks extremely difficult. The game does not come easy to him.

The weapons argument is only half the story. Good QBs make weapons look good.

We'll see. Geno didn't even beat out Sanchez this year. I doubt he'd beat out a half-capable QB like Vick, Shaun Hill, or a decent rookie.

As I've said, I've only scouted Manziel and Bridgewater in depth. I'm intrigued by Murray as a late round value especially since he'll fall farther due to the ACL.

And I really wouldn't be surprised if they traded up for a QB. They're going to fill a bunch of needs in FA and I don't think Idzik or Rex wants any part of starting Smith this year. Teams whiff on second round picks all the time. It's not like it's even that bad of a miss for Idzik, especially if Milliner pans out and he signs some quality FA this offseason, which I expect him to.

I'll agree to disagree. The kind of improvements Smith needs to make are just incredibly hard to envision happening all at once in year two. He's actually a really good developmental project. But he needs to learn how to play QB. What he was doing at WVU was pitch and catch and when teams made it harder than that, he crumbled.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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The weapons argument is only half the story. Good QBs make weapons look good.

No, great quarterbacks in the NFL make weapons look good. And most of them take a few years before they're able to do it at that level. Geno's not Peyton Manning and he never will be. But if the Jets are going to drafting quarterbacks every year looking for Peyton Manning, they're going to be drafting them for a long..... long time. Most 'good' quarterbacks struggle with sub par talent on offense.


Oh, and one more thing.

Geno threw for three thousand yards, 12 td's 21 int's and ran for 6 touchdowns. If you think that's the worst rookie season a quarterback has ever had, you need to look up the top ten all time bust list.



And then look up Troy Aikman's rookie season.

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Old 01-24-2014, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Geno didn't have to set the world on fire for me to want to give him another year. He had to not have the worst season ever for a rookie QB.

Everything he does looks extremely difficult. The game does not come easy to him.

The weapons argument is only half the story. Good QBs make weapons look good.

We'll see. Geno didn't even beat out Sanchez this year. I doubt he'd beat out a half-capable QB like Vick, Shaun Hill, or a decent rookie.

As I've said, I've only scouted Manziel and Bridgewater in depth. I'm intrigued by Murray as a late round value especially since he'll fall farther due to the ACL.

And I really wouldn't be surprised if they traded up for a QB. They're going to fill a bunch of needs in FA and I don't think Idzik or Rex wants any part of starting Smith this year. Teams whiff on second round picks all the time. It's not like it's even that bad of a miss for Idzik, especially if Milliner pans out and he signs some quality FA this offseason, which I expect him to.

I'll agree to disagree. The kind of improvements Smith needs to make are just incredibly hard to envision happening all at once in year two. He's actually a really good developmental project. But he needs to learn how to play QB. What he was doing at WVU was pitch and catch and when teams made it harder than that, he crumbled.
I think we see things similarly actually, but we've just got different points of view on how things are going to play out. Which is fine. And I think we have similar perspectives about what they will/should do. To me they need to improve there both in the draft and FA, bring in a Shaun Hill level quarterback, and draft a QB in the mid-rounds who they like. From there I think they just let the cards fall where they may - we just think it'll play out differently.

I will throw this out there, having legitimate weapons in the passing game is absolutely huge for NFL quarterbacks. Guys have taken massive steps forward when their teams added star pass catchers, and even the legitimate franchise guys have struggled recently with injuries to star receivers and/or bad offensive lines. And the Jets have literally nothing besides a solid OL, a good but not great running back, and a pretty good slot receiver. So improving there will go a long ways towards finding a quarterback who will be successful here, whomever it may be. Because I don't think the defense will be bad enough over the next few years for them to draft #1 overall to find that guy who's capable of making the players around them better, and even if they do it can be a crapshoot depending on who's available that year. And Russell Wilsons don't grow on trees.

Also, the reason I like Geno - and I'm not completely attached to him - is because I've seen both a desire to be great and a propensity to improve. Ultimately I think that's what separates the guys who have success from the guys who fail - I don't think Sanchez ever had either of those traits, he just showed flashes of playing well. And maybe Geno doesn't either, I'm way too far from things to actually know. But it's that feeling I get from him more than his play on the field at all. If he shows nothing this year obviously he didn't work hard enough in the offseason and my though there was wrong, wouldn't be the first time, and I'm on board with moving in a different direction. Frankly if there was a clear better option this offseason I could get behind that too. Regardless, that…guess maybe you can call it, is why I think Geno might have a shot.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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I think you're seeing Geno's intangibles with green colored glasses. Whatever is said in the media, the kid fell in part due to teams not fully believing in those intangibles. And a few quotes from him and his teammates don't convince me otherwise.

As for the Troy Aikman comment - it's a completely different game. With all the specialized coaching and offseason programming it is unacceptable for a new QB to come in and look as bad as he did.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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I actually don't even like Geno particularly. In the preseason, he looked like the third best quarterback on the Jets roster and the second best rookie quarterback. But now that he is a Jet, he deserves at least a reasonable shot at starting. He deserves more than his rookie season and he deserves more than what he had to work with on offense last year.

If the Jets get quality receiving options and Geno fails anyway, well at least the Jets will have quality receiving options for whomever they replace Geno with.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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It's entirely possible. Ultimately, we'll see how the season plays out. But I think the offseason still plays out that same way at the QB position (Geno, vet, mid-round guy), and they need to prioritize improving the passing game through WR's and TE's both in FA and the draft. That second paragraph in Crickett's post is basically my mindset this offseason.
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Old 01-24-2014, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Geno's Wins (8) - 10 TD's vs 5 INT's
Geno's Losses (8) - 2 TD's vs 16 INT's

Formula is simple in the NFL...... don't turn the ball over.

Right now, we don't know with Geno. Protect the ball. I agree with others that we should draft the skill positions.... WR/TE ..... to help Geno be successful. I think a strong draft with skill positions, along with strong FA signings, I believe in Idzik, will give us a better understanding on what Geno will give the Jets. I don't think the Jets go better than a mid round pick on a QB in this draft, in hopes of Geno.

On another note, been catching up on all your posts. Great stuff. A lot to digest. Tried out (repeatedly) the mock simulator posted earlier. My thoughts are, if we go WR in round one, then TE is tough to fill with a difference maker. Each draft where I grabbed Ebron as #1, quality WR's were still there in round 2 & 3. I'm hoping for a strong offensive draft this season.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Progressing at QB is more about a mentality than physical talent, IMO. With that in mind, I think there's a couple QBs in this draft that could be better than Geno. Some talent evaluators have talked about it too where with virtually every QB in this class, opinions vary greatly (apparently some scouts have Teddy as a 2nd round talent), so it's very likely a top signal caller will be there in the middle rounds of the draft. It's just about finding the right fit and cultivating that talent. I think we are very close to 100% taking a QB in this draft, it's just a matter of what kind of commitment we will be making depending on the pick. I think we should bring in a veteran regardless.

Personally, I would take Garoppolo whether that's in the 1st or the 4th, but I do think Rex, being a terrible QB evaluator, is more attracted to big arms and moxie than anything else. And if it wasn't common knowledge, Rex is absolutely in love with Tajh Boyd, so it'll be interesting to see how much influence he has in that war room in that regard.

Going back to Geno, I think he showed tremendous ability, on occasion, given the talent surrounding him, more so than any young QB this year that has been equally handicapped... minus Luck. If he can really work on it, I could see him being serviceable so long as he stays on the field and keeps his wits about him. And honestly, considering that we went to the AFC Championship game with Sanchez twice, I really don't think we need all-pro play out of the position so long as we surround them with the right tools.

Also, as has been pointed out, this is a great draft for WRs and TEs. However, that should be a point in favor of possibly drafting a QB early, since the depth at the skill positions in this class afford us the opportunity to wait a little longer. Those are both positions that we could certainly go get early, but especially in today's pass-happy game, top flight WRs will be found late. And we shouldn't discount the possibility of going defense early, as much as that may pain some people, because despite the numbers, our pass rush has been absolutely awful for several years and finding edge guys/safeties to compliment will positively affect us in many areas.
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Going back to Geno, I think he showed tremendous ability, on occasion, given the talent surrounding him, more so than any young QB this year that has been equally handicapped... minus Luck. If he can really work on it, I could see him being serviceable so long as he stays on the field and keeps his wits about him.
You hit the nail on the head here. The talent is clearly there. And I think you could have said the same about Sanchez last year. It all comes down to whether Geno can get his head on straight and if the Jets supply him with serviceable weapons.

I'm usually excited for drafts. I'm honestly nervous for this year. They absolutely need to do well or we could be in for another rough couple of years.
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Progressing at QB is more about a mentality than physical talent, IMO. With that in mind, I think there's a couple QBs in this draft that could be better than Geno. Some talent evaluators have talked about it too where with virtually every QB in this class, opinions vary greatly (apparently some scouts have Teddy as a 2nd round talent), so it's very likely a top signal caller will be there in the middle rounds of the draft. It's just about finding the right fit and cultivating that talent. I think we are very close to 100% taking a QB in this draft, it's just a matter of what kind of commitment we will be making depending on the pick. I think we should bring in a veteran regardless.

Personally, I would take Garoppolo whether that's in the 1st or the 4th, but I do think Rex, being a terrible QB evaluator, is more attracted to big arms and moxie than anything else. And if it wasn't common knowledge, Rex is absolutely in love with Tajh Boyd, so it'll be interesting to see how much influence he has in that war room in that regard.

Going back to Geno, I think he showed tremendous ability, on occasion, given the talent surrounding him, more so than any young QB this year that has been equally handicapped... minus Luck. If he can really work on it, I could see him being serviceable so long as he stays on the field and keeps his wits about him. And honestly, considering that we went to the AFC Championship game with Sanchez twice, I really don't think we need all-pro play out of the position so long as we surround them with the right tools.

Also, as has been pointed out, this is a great draft for WRs and TEs. However, that should be a point in favor of possibly drafting a QB early, since the depth at the skill positions in this class afford us the opportunity to wait a little longer. Those are both positions that we could certainly go get early, but especially in today's pass-happy game, top flight WRs will be found late. And we shouldn't discount the possibility of going defense early, as much as that may pain some people, because despite the numbers, our pass rush has been absolutely awful for several years and finding edge guys/safeties to compliment will positively affect us in many areas.
I agree with the bold. There are going to be starter-potential WRs later than pick No. 18.

I'm not sure which QB I want the Jets to target yet.
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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As for the Troy Aikman comment - it's a completely different game. With all the specialized coaching and offseason programming it is unacceptable for a new QB to come in and look as bad as he did.
No it isn't. Quarterbacks coming in and excelling as a rookie quarterback, especially rookies drafted outside of the top three are still the exception, not the rule.

See:
Brees, Drew
Manning, Eli
Rivers, Phillip
Schaub, Matt
Rodgers, Aaron
Cutler, Jay
Flacco, Joe
Stafford, Matthew (If you still think Geno had the worst season for a rookie and want a more contemporary example than Troy Aikman, here you go)
Kaepernick, Colin


And if anyone wants to argue that many of those players didn't really play as rookies, that's part of the point.
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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The Stafford example suits your argument better than anything else.

But there's one gigantic difference. Stafford was a first overall pick with incredible raw talent and experience against SEC defenses in a pro-style offense. Projecting him to get better with his skill set and pedigree made sense. And he did get better. But another part of that example is what has Stafford become? A very flawed QB who continues to make way too many bad mistakes even as an experienced veteran.

Aikman? Stafford?

What about Geno Smith's performance in college or the NFL leads you to believe he can make the type of jump in performance from year one to year two?

This is a different era even from Stafford's rookie year. The NFL is suited for QBs to have success and have success early.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I agree with the bold. There are going to be starter-potential WRs later than pick No. 18.

I'm not sure which QB I want the Jets to target yet.
I think the absolute bare minimum they should do at WR and TE this offseason is sign a guy who has been at least a capable #2 WR as a FA and someone Cumberland level or better at TE, then draft a WR by the end of day 2 and a TE by the 4th.

This QB class is tricky, aside from the guys who will be gone by 18 I think Garoppolo is the best fit. Maybe Brett Smith, though I'd have to watch more.


Also the flip side of the Stafford pro-style offense argument is that Stafford should have come in and produced immediately because he was playing in a system closer to what he played in as a collegiate QB. Growing pains were expected in Geno's case (and he looked better when they started running more shotgun).
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