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Old 02-27-2014, 01:59 AM    (permalink
gpngc
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Well I just read that you actually CAN carry over cap space to the following year. But again, with almost 70M available for 2015 right now and ONE guy to extend, it's hard to argue that it's being smart to save so you can carry over and get that absurd amount of space higher.

And I disagree that "thinking in the short term" got them in trouble. They gave a horrible deal to Sanchez because of Tebow (which is ridiculous). And they made BAD football decisions every step of the way - more by letting guys GO than overspending really. Starting with Cotchery.

We seem to have a philosophical difference here. I always say spend the money and compete as best as you can each year. Yes have a mind to the future, but the future is so far away as the NFL is truly a week-to-week league for everyone involved, with jobs at stake each year. Unless improving the team in the short-term risks SEVERELY impacting you negatively in the long-term (like the Sanchez extension), I say spend away.

And given their situation, I'd be SHOCKED if they sat on their hands to have 80M in cap room next year.

The more I'm thinking about it with the Rex contract and all the draft picks - I really think they'll splurge this offseason. There's really no reason not to. I just proved that you can give Ware a two-year deal and not have it impact your cap situation negatively AT ALL for the next two offseasons. With the rollover actually implemented in the new CBA, maybe my ideas in the above post are a little over-the-top, but again - they barely have ANYONE tied up for 2015. They have to sign FAs this year simply to make sure they can actually field a damn team in 2015. If they don't get some guys on multi-year deals this offseason, they're going to be scrambling to fill out their roster next offseason - and then you can really screw yourself.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Crickett View Post
Because the Jets have been handcuffed by bad contracts plenty of times over the last twenty years and sometimes keeping your options open is the best option.

As far as what you said earlier, saying "we should trust the doctor" brought a flood of bad memories for me. So I'll just say this. Not on a bet.

And drafting regardless of position, I can understand wanting to upgrade a position, but when you reach a point where you're drafting people who almost by definition have no shot at making the team, you're wasting a pick, even if it's BPA.
That's a philosophical difference we have. I take BPA all the way down, ESPECIALLY the later in the draft. It's NEVER a bad thing to have competition in camp. You have a practice squad, gameday inactives, injuries happen, etc. The Seahawks drafted a third RB in the 2nd round last year.

The Jets don't have a third back, their best back is injury prone, and their No. 2 back is very average.

And by your 'definition,' any team with 11 draft picks is going to have picks with "no shot of making the team." Which is complete BS because the NFL is a meritocracy and if you can play, you stay.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:40 AM    (permalink
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That's a philosophical difference we have. I take BPA all the way down, ESPECIALLY the later in the draft. It's NEVER a bad thing to have competition in camp. You have a practice squad, gameday inactives, injuries happen, etc. The Seahawks drafted a third RB in the 2nd round last year.

The Jets don't have a third back, their best back is injury prone, and their No. 2 back is very average.

And by your 'definition,' any team with 11 draft picks is going to have picks with "no shot of making the team." Which is complete BS because the NFL is a meritocracy and if you can play, you stay.

But I'm not arguing against the Jets drafting a third running back in the third day of the draft*, I'm arguing against them drafting three running backs in the draft. And the injury prone guy and very average guy were the lions share of the #6 ranked run game in the NFL. There's no reason to replace them. Competition is great so long as it doesn't cause the rest of your team to atrophy.

And no, the only way any of the 11 draft picks is going to have 'no shot' of making the team do things like draft two quarterbacks, or three running backs, or four wide receivers.

Short of that, with the lack of depth on the Jets roster going back years, it's likely that at the very least every player the Jets draft will at least have a chance of making the team. Even though obviously not all of them will.



*Although I'd argue against drafting a third running back in the first two days when there are so many other more pressing needs.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Seahawks drafted RB earlier because they relied heavily on the run game just in case if their best RB was hurt. For Jets' situation, RB is no longer a key piece to their offense as Ryan keeps committing to pass first offense.

Jets would draft 4th or 5th WR earlier if Jets were the "complete" team. However, last year, Jets went BPA as they ignored offensive help in the first round so you never know.

That is why I mentioned my free agent group. Go after receivers hard in free agency so that way Jets can continue drafting BPA even it is WR or TE.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Jets would draft 4th or 5th WR earlier if Jets were the "complete" team. However, last year, Jets went BPA as they ignored offensive help in the first round so you never know.

That is why I mentioned my free agent group. Go after receivers hard in free agency so that way Jets can continue drafting BPA even it is WR or TE.
If the Jets really want to go BPA, why would they go WR heavy in free agency? This is the deepest WR draft in years, possibly ever. IMO the top 10 receivers in this draft are first round caliber, but at least half will probably be available in the second. Even if the Jets sign someone like James Jones, I'd very much like for them to draft at least two in the first four rounds.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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If the Jets really want to go BPA, why would they go WR heavy in free agency? This is the deepest WR draft in years, possibly ever. IMO the top 10 receivers in this draft are first round caliber, but at least half will probably be available in the second. Even if the Jets sign someone like James Jones, I'd very much like for them to draft at least two in the first four rounds.
If it was WR as BPA then it was only one you could count on. That is not enough to bolster the WR corp for Jets. As go as BPA, Jets could draft QB, CB, LB or even OL. That method would not bolster WR corp, either.

Because FA occurs prior to Draft, you have no way to guarantee that Jets would draft 2 "first round" WRs as other position prospect holds higher in BPA board.

Also, other reason why I want to tap on FA to bolster WR corp is FS's quality for available. Taking FS in the 1st means a loss of opportunity for high upside WR. If Jets decided to go with WR in 1st round then Jets won't have a legitimate FS after 1st round.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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If it was WR as BPA then it was only one you could count on. That is not enough to bolster the WR corp for Jets. As go as BPA, Jets could draft QB, CB, LB or even OL. That method would not bolster WR corp, either.

Because FA occurs prior to Draft, you have no way to guarantee that Jets would draft 2 "first round" WRs as other position prospect holds higher in BPA board.

Also, other reason why I want to tap on FA to bolster WR corp is FS's quality for available. Taking FS in the 1st means a loss of opportunity for high upside WR. If Jets decided to go with WR in 1st round then Jets won't have a legitimate FS after 1st round.
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand everything you're saying here. I will try to respond as best as I can.

I would dispute that drafting a linebacker or a quarterback or a cornerback is the best player available. Especially quarterback. Maybe that would address a perceived need, but in my opinion is not going to fall in line with best player available unless someone has a steep drop from the first round.

The same is true with free safety. If you're drafting one because you're afraid there won't be any good ones later, you're not really drafting the 'best player available'. You're drafting someone for need because you don't think you'll be able to address that particular need later.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, I don't quite understand everything you're saying here. I will try to respond as best as I can.

I would dispute that drafting a linebacker or a quarterback or a cornerback is the best player available. Especially quarterback. Maybe that would address a perceived need, but in my opinion is not going to fall in line with best player available unless someone has a steep drop from the first round.

The same is true with free safety. If you're drafting one because you're afraid there won't be any good ones later, you're not really drafting the 'best player available'. You're drafting someone for need because you don't think you'll be able to address that particular need later.

two separate points. FS situation is my plan. Before that, BPA plan for Jets as we don't know who the hell are on Idzik's BPA board so I play the way there would be only one WR as BPA for Idzik.

If Jets flood WR corp with FA then Jets could sit back and draft BPA whether or not it is WR instead of forcing to overdraft WR in 1st or 2nd without trading down.

You say WR class is deep but what about Idzik's opinion? He could wait until 3rd round to see if Jordan Matthews available. If it happened, he was freaking genius. If not, only you would call him an idiot. That is why Jets should not skip FA in favor of draft to bolster WR corp.

Either way..

Paying a lot of money to Sanders and drafting 2 WRs for value.

or

Paying good prices on 2 tier 2 WRs and drafting 1 or 2 WR as BPA.


I believe you have been campaigning for first one and I for second one.
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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two separate points. FS situation is my plan. Before that, BPA plan for Jets as we don't know who the hell are on Idzik's BPA board so I play the way there would be only one WR as BPA for Idzik.

If Jets flood WR corp with FA then Jets could sit back and draft BPA whether or not it is WR instead of forcing to overdraft WR in 1st or 2nd without trading down.

You say WR class is deep but what about Idzik's opinion? He could wait until 3rd round to see if Jordan Matthews available. If it happened, he was freaking genius. If not, only you would call him an idiot. That is why Jets should not skip FA in favor of draft to bolster WR corp.

Either way..

Paying a lot of money to Sanders and drafting 2 WRs for value.

or

Paying good prices on 2 tier 2 WRs and drafting 1 or 2 WR as BPA.


I believe you have been campaigning for first one and I for second one.
No, *we* don't. I only know who my BPA board is. And to me, wide receiver and offensive line provides the best value essentially for the first four rounds.

As for what my stance is, I wouldn't say the Jets should pay a lot of money to Sanders, but I don't know what qualifies as a lot of money in this instance. 3-4 million a year? Certainly. Santonio Holmes type money? Not on a bet. Not for a player who hasn't gotten anywhere close to a thousand yard season with one of the best QB's in the NFL throwing to him for four years.

I'm very much for drafting one wide receiver in the first two rounds and another one in the next two rounds. As I've said before, I look at the top ten wide receivers as first round caliber. I look at the next five as second round caliber.

I don't know who you mean as tier 2 wide receivers. From my perspective, Emmanuel Sanders and James Jones *are* the tier two wide receivers in free agency with Eric Decker and Hakeem Nicks being the first tier. But I don't want the Jets to sign either of them to big money deals. I see Decker in large part as a product of Peyton Manning and I saw Hakeem Nicks struggle a lot this past season for the Giants.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Well Folk is coming back. Will be interesting to see if they work out a long-term deal with him.

Maclin's off the board too, which is unfortunate. Wonder what direction they're going to go in as far as FA WR's go. Hopefully based on Cooper and Maclin's deals the market doesn't get too out of control.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of money Nicks gets versus guys like Sanders and Tate.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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If the Jets can get James Jones or Emmanuel Sanders for 4 or 4.5 million a year, I'd be okay with that.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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With news of high the salary cap is going in the next few years, they'd have to give Eric Smith 15M a year for me to not be happy because they "over paid."

But all teams are probably going to think this way. So a guy like James Jones will probably go for a lot more.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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133m for 2014. Jets could pay a lot of money to Sanders and Howard (7m?).


For FS option, Stevie Brown and Louis Delmas could be a bargain since they are dealing with injuries.
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Old 03-02-2014, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Reports are now that Byrd will be hitting the market. I'd be happy.
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Old 03-02-2014, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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It would be a pretty big oversight for us not to pursue him if he's available. The alternative in my mind is drafting Jimmie Ward, but with all of our other pressing needs, it'd be hard to justify. It'd be funny if Rex brings back Reed but doesn't go after Byrd. Hopefully Idzik has some power over the situation.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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They have the money, just give Byrd a huge deal. The whole idea of having cap space or saving it, is so that you can extend your own guys and get guys like this. With literally only two guys two extend, I don't see his past injuries as a reason not to pay him. When he's healthy he's one of the best at his position. Just do it.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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They have the money, just give Byrd a huge deal. The whole idea of having cap space or saving it, is so that you can extend your own guys and get guys like this. With literally only two guys two extend, I don't see his past injuries as a reason not to pay him. When he's healthy he's one of the best at his position. Just do it.
I don't think they will, but I'd be fine with it. Hopefully Idzik could structure it so that a few years in if he mails it in they can get out of it, but I think Byrd would be a great fit. Sign Byrd, let Allen and Landry compete for the other starting safety spot, cut Cro and re-sign him for less money, bring back a couple of Lankster/Trufant/Walls, re-sign Pace and Douzable to vet min-ish deals, and spend a mid-round pick on a developmental corner, a mid-rounder on an inside linebacker to take over for Harris after the season, and an early-mid round pick on an OLB to take over for Pace as the season goes on/after the season. Use the rest of the offseason upgrading the offense.

Won't happen, but to me that's the most efficient way to allocate their resources now with an eye to the future.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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Why won't it happen? The Jets have to spend money this offseason. I think they will.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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Why won't it happen? The Jets have to spend money this offseason. I think they will.
I'd imagine they'll invest more in the defense than I lined out there.

To me the defense and run game are good enough. The passing game is not. So with that as my mindset, those moves are adequate to keep the defense good enough. Substantial upgrade at safety, upgrade depth and overall athleticism at linebacker with an eye to starters in a year (or less), upgrade corner depth and potentially grab a guy to take over for Cro if he actually is done. I think Byrd tightens up the back end which was the weak spot last year and Cro and Milliner both are better this year than they were as a whole in 2013. Plus if the OLB is taken early enough that could upgrade the pass rush in passing situations.

I don't think ILB next to Davis is crucial going forward. In passing situations Snacks comes off the field, Barnes comes on, Coples/Wilkerson/Richardson/Pace (and hopefully new OLB going forward) stay on the field. Then Davis does as well. More than a mid-round investment seems overkill. Corner if Cro and the hypothetical draft pick are both bad I could see throwing more into that spot next offseason but for now I think it would be overkill too. And I think they're best off developing somebody behind Pace at OLB as crucial as setting the edge is in the scheme - add some athleticism for passing downs and let Pace play in base situations. Frankly they don't even need Byrd, I just think it's a huge upgrade at the defense's weak spot. With all the money they have, like you said,

Then they can just bring in a few pass catchers (some FA, some draft), legitimate quarterback competition, etc and improve what's really holding the team back - the passing game. All of that said, I don't recall the last time the Jets and I were on the same page. So I'd imagine more happens on defense than I think is necessary.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Why won't it happen? The Jets have to spend money this offseason. I think they will.

For one thing, when was the last time the Jets made a significant investment at safety? The last time they drafted one with better than a very late round pick was Eric Smith in 2006. When was the last time they locked up a safety for anything resembling a long term contract?

Oh, they paid Laron Landry 4 million a year, but it was only on a one year deal. And despite playing well enough to make the pro bowl, the Jets let him go anyway.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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I think you'll see Vick and a WR. Maybe Ben Tate. If they don't get Vick I expect Schaub, Hill, or McCown.

And Howard and Colon return.

Get a few more playmakers (Beckham, Archer) in the draft, and baby, you got yourself a stew goin'. I mean offense.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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I wonder if the Jets show some serious interest in Brandin Cooks at 18. Obviously there were rumors they liked Tavon Austin at 9 last year - Cooks is really similar player from a draft perspective. Hyper productive, little guys, lots of speed/quickness and big play ability. I'd been thinking about it and wondering if it was totally off base - then Kiper made the comp in his recent rankings update, so I'm not the only guy thinking that way at least.

Cooks isn't as versatile as Austin and lacks the ridiculous stop/start ability that Tavon had at least on the field, but he's still pretty special athletically. Better 40 and shuttle times, he's clearly quite fast, has almost a couple of inches on Austin height-wise and I believe like 15 pounds. Experience playing in more of a pro-style offense at Oregon State too which helps, and worked a little in the punt return game there as well. And he's not quite Golden Tate in terms of playing bigger than his frame, but Cooks does a pretty good job attacking the ball downfield for a little guy.

We're also talking about taking a guy at pick 18 too, not pick 9. Enough lines up that I'd imagine it's going to at least be a consideration.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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I wonder if the Jets show some serious interest in Brandin Cooks at 18. Obviously there were rumors they liked Tavon Austin at 9 last year - Cooks is really similar player from a draft perspective. Hyper productive, little guys, lots of speed/quickness and big play ability. I'd been thinking about it and wondering if it was totally off base - then Kiper made the comp in his recent rankings update, so I'm not the only guy thinking that way at least.

Cooks isn't as versatile as Austin and lacks the ridiculous stop/start ability that Tavon had at least on the field, but he's still pretty special athletically. Better 40 and shuttle times, he's clearly quite fast, has almost a couple of inches on Austin height-wise and I believe like 15 pounds. Experience playing in more of a pro-style offense at Oregon State too which helps, and worked a little in the punt return game there as well. And he's not quite Golden Tate in terms of playing bigger than his frame, but Cooks does a pretty good job attacking the ball downfield for a little guy.

We're also talking about taking a guy at pick 18 too, not pick 9. Enough lines up that I'd imagine it's going to at least be a consideration.

I like Cooks as a prospect, but I don't like the idea that after going through a season where the only decent receiving option the Jets had was the slot receiver, the Jets would draft a really good slot receiver in the first round.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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I like Cooks as a prospect, but I don't like the idea that after going through a season where the only decent receiving option the Jets had was the slot receiver, the Jets would draft a really good slot receiver in the first round.
I think Cooks is more of an outside receiver who can play the slot as well than a pure slot guy. Jarvis Landry is someone who to me is just a slot receiver.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Ahhhh.... you just beat me to it Derza. Was about to plug the rumors of Cooks being on the Jets radar at 18!

As for the Byrd signing, I think that a big move in FA like that would make us all feel more comfortable that the Jets high draft picks would lean more in the direction of building a young nucleus through the draft. My wish is 2 WR's and a TE within the first three picks.

I agree with Gpngc, in that I still think the Jets will be major players in signing Vick. With Maclin signed, I can't decide at the moment where the veteran WR FA splash should be, although I think they need one.

And at 18, while I think Cooks is a major talent, I'd rather see Beckham.
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