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Old 01-25-2007, 08:41 PM    (permalink
jetsfan3
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Default Re: dont worry

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Originally Posted by throwback54milkman
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Originally Posted by El$anDollah
The reason Chad looks good is because the defense holds the fort and everyone is able to something on the short slant routes. We acknoledge pennington for his accuracy and management of the game, but, he's not that accurrate and the management credit should be given to the coaching staff. The problem is if he brings in Kellen and he flops, Mangini will get decked on.
i wanna see Clemens take the majority of snaps in the preseason, then have chad start the season- if he gets off to a bad start then we bring in Kellen
You said it perfectly. I haven't seen Kellen play ever in a real game. I never watched Oregon St. games, but I saw highlights and he looks good. Pre-season, he better play a lot.
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Old 01-25-2007, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jetsfan3
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Originally Posted by throwback54milkman
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Originally Posted by El$anDollah
The reason Chad looks good is because the defense holds the fort and everyone is able to something on the short slant routes. We acknoledge pennington for his accuracy and management of the game, but, he's not that accurrate and the management credit should be given to the coaching staff. The problem is if he brings in Kellen and he flops, Mangini will get decked on.
i wanna see Clemens take the majority of snaps in the preseason, then have chad start the season- if he gets off to a bad start then we bring in Kellen
You said it perfectly. I haven't seen Kellen play ever in a real game. I never watched Oregon St. games, but I saw highlights and he looks good. Pre-season, he better play a lot.
he went to oregon just so you know, but yah i agree. he should get tons of playing time in the preseason, and if he looks good, than we know that we have another guy to bring in if chad dissappoints during the season. personally though, i dont think that either chad or kellen are gonna be the guy to lead us to the super bowl. i think if were ever gonna make a super bowl appearrance, its gonna be with a QB thats not currently on the roster
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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Kellen has yet to prove himself. He did look good in preseason but then again that was the preseason and the regular season is totally different. He has adequate to good armstrength, ok accurcey and good field vision but he still is learning and he dosent have effecient pocket presence. I agree, he needs a lot more reps during preseason and Mangini should start putting Pennington on a half leash like Rex Grossman. I know Chad has gotten us far but hes preventing us from becoming a great team.
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Old 01-26-2007, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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chad is a good quarterback. He does not hold the team back, like mangini said all year, chad does things at the line adn to prepare that makes the team better that no one sees. LC said Chad blows his mind with how much he can do, also MAngini and schottenheimer both said Pennington and Peyton Manning are probably the only two QBs in the league who could call a game by themsleves from the line. (Mangini said it about chad after the game in Tenn or 1st pats game) ... and dont hold that swing pass lateral in the playoffs against Chad, it was a play call that wasn't audibled and it was a bad call (if that play doesnt happen or the jets fall on it maybe they score and if they do its a different ball game. after that they had to press and push it too much). We had a great season and chad was one of if not the key reason for that success. Also to refer back a bit Rex Grossman and Chad Pennington arent close to comprable quarterbacks. (rex is the anti pennington ie it was new years so i didnt prepare bc im A MORON)

As for Clemens... I love him but its TOO soon, hes not good at reading the field as was said but his accuracy is good he needs to be able to check down and read pro defenses which you need in this offense and dont learn over nite, also you dont just sit out almost a full season your senior year in college and one in the pros and then beat out a guy who helped win 10 games the previous season. I think another year of a smart guy like clemens working with a good QB like Chad will then give way to a Qb competition. If Clemens is ready to start then the open competition will prove it ... idont think its going to happen this year.
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Old 01-26-2007, 06:45 AM    (permalink
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The way I look at the draft is this. I'm not sold on any player just yet (although I like carriker) but we should draft like this.

rd1-BEST available 3-4 lineman. This could be a NT or DT, Drob needs someone who can give him a breather, we literally had no depth at that position. Ellis and Kimo had O.K. years. Kimo is getting old and I can't remember more than a play or 2 that he put pressure on a QB(I know that not what they were asking him to do, but it should still happen situationally)

rd2A-best cb or OL. I love the position of this pick.We should be able to grab someone who fell down because they didn't fit emergency need. Not sold on Tony Hunt(RB) yet, let's see the 40 time. We need depth at OT/OG and CB. CB being the most important.

rd2B-PLAYMAKER- Let's face facts. We need an impact offensive weapon at every position. WR/RB/TE . Coles is all heart, but he had at LEAST one concussion this year, has a chronic toe problem that will never improve and a slight problem with the coaches training methods.I love the guy, but the clock is ticking. Cotchery has turned into a 1b reciever but if Coles goes down he will be double teamed constantly. Jmac will be gone, we don't know what the deal is with Dwight's injury and Brad Smith has played less than a year at WR. I love Baker at TE, but they didn't throw to him enough(probably because they needed the pass protection help). I don't think I need to explain the RB situation. I think I'm starting to convince myself that Playmaker might be a better option with the above pick, but only if the right guy is there. Tony Hunt, Brian Leonard, Myles(sick at senior bowl practice)
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Old 01-26-2007, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny4
The way I look at the draft is this. I'm not sold on any player just yet (although I like carriker) but we should draft like this.

rd1-BEST available 3-4 lineman. This could be a NT or DT, Drob needs someone who can give him a breather, we literally had no depth at that position. Ellis and Kimo had O.K. years. Kimo is getting old and I can't remember more than a play or 2 that he put pressure on a QB(I know that not what they were asking him to do, but it should still happen situationally)

rd2A-best cb or OL. I love the position of this pick.We should be able to grab someone who fell down because they didn't fit emergency need. Not sold on Tony Hunt(RB) yet, let's see the 40 time. We need depth at OT/OG and CB. CB being the most important.

rd2B-PLAYMAKER- Let's face facts. We need an impact offensive weapon at every position. WR/RB/TE . Coles is all heart, but he had at LEAST one concussion this year, has a chronic toe problem that will never improve and a slight problem with the coaches training methods.I love the guy, but the clock is ticking. Cotchery has turned into a 1b reciever but if Coles goes down he will be double teamed constantly. Jmac will be gone, we don't know what the deal is with Dwight's injury and Brad Smith has played less than a year at WR. I love Baker at TE, but they didn't throw to him enough(probably because they needed the pass protection help). I don't think I need to explain the RB situation. I think I'm starting to convince myself that Playmaker might be a better option with the above pick, but only if the right guy is there. Tony Hunt, Brian Leonard, Myles(sick at senior bowl practice)
I don't know how much of a playmaker we need at running back. We have Leon Washington who makes big plays, what we really lack is a pounder who can get you 3-6 yards every play and break a couple of 10-20 yarders every now and then. Maybe it's offensive line and maybe it's the backs we have now, I don't know. But that's what we lack at the running back position, Leon does make big plays for us the problem with him is that he gets caught behind the line from time to time. The only appeal of a playmaker is that its better to have 2 similar backs than 2 different backs IMO, or at least backs with a similar skill set. So ideally we'd need a big guy that runs a lot of draws and outside plays and can catch out of the backfield, so they don't know that if Leon is in the game we're running delays or sweeps and could pass him the ball and if he's not we'll run between the tackles and if we drop back we're not throwing it to our tailback.
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derza222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny4
The way I look at the draft is this. I'm not sold on any player just yet (although I like carriker) but we should draft like this.

rd1-BEST available 3-4 lineman. This could be a NT or DT, Drob needs someone who can give him a breather, we literally had no depth at that position. Ellis and Kimo had O.K. years. Kimo is getting old and I can't remember more than a play or 2 that he put pressure on a QB(I know that not what they were asking him to do, but it should still happen situationally)

rd2A-best cb or OL. I love the position of this pick.We should be able to grab someone who fell down because they didn't fit emergency need. Not sold on Tony Hunt(RB) yet, let's see the 40 time. We need depth at OT/OG and CB. CB being the most important.

rd2B-PLAYMAKER- Let's face facts. We need an impact offensive weapon at every position. WR/RB/TE . Coles is all heart, but he had at LEAST one concussion this year, has a chronic toe problem that will never improve and a slight problem with the coaches training methods.I love the guy, but the clock is ticking. Cotchery has turned into a 1b reciever but if Coles goes down he will be double teamed constantly. Jmac will be gone, we don't know what the deal is with Dwight's injury and Brad Smith has played less than a year at WR. I love Baker at TE, but they didn't throw to him enough(probably because they needed the pass protection help). I don't think I need to explain the RB situation. I think I'm starting to convince myself that Playmaker might be a better option with the above pick, but only if the right guy is there. Tony Hunt, Brian Leonard, Myles(sick at senior bowl practice)
I don't know how much of a playmaker we need at running back. We have Leon Washington who makes big plays, what we really lack is a pounder who can get you 3-6 yards every play and break a couple of 10-20 yarders every now and then. Maybe it's offensive line and maybe it's the backs we have now, I don't know. But that's what we lack at the running back position, Leon does make big plays for us the problem with him is that he gets caught behind the line from time to time. The only appeal of a playmaker is that its better to have 2 similar backs than 2 different backs IMO, or at least backs with a similar skill set. So ideally we'd need a big guy that runs a lot of draws and outside plays and can catch out of the backfield, so they don't know that if Leon is in the game we're running delays or sweeps and could pass him the ball and if he's not we'll run between the tackles and if we drop back we're not throwing it to our tailback.
Curtis Martin was a playmaker. If you needed 3 yards he got you three, if you needed a swing pass, he did that. A draw play, a block whatever it took. That's what I mean by a play maker. Curtis was 5'10 and 200 pds. Not a big guy by any means. We need a player that is always a threat on the feild and the defense has to key on. It doesn't have to be at RB. Every team has that player(the good offensive teams have more than one) Look at the afc and nfc championship teams and RB position.
Colts- Addai and Rhodes
Bears-jones and Benson
Pats-Marroney and Dillon
Saints-Bush and Deuce.
Are they that much better than what we have?
2 rookies(I know BUSH, but he was more dangerous as a reciever than a runner) 3 past their prime(Jones,Dillon and Duece), a career backup(Rhodes) and a first round bust(Benson). You can find a rb. You need a playmaker.
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, double post.
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Old 01-26-2007, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Sorry dude, those RBs you named are WAY better than what we have. As of now at least. LW does get caught behind the line every once in a while but that comes from being a rookie and not having the vision from experience. Im convinced LW's going to improve this off season and we should only draft a RB if a stud slips to one of our 2nd round picks.

As far as D is concerned, what do you guys think of this DT Amobi Okoye from Louisville? He's only 19! He was getting PT at 16. He's a great player now and has the potential to be dominant in any scheme in a little while. But it is always risky drafting a player in the 1st round off of potential and risks doesnt seem to be Mangini's thing.
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Old 01-26-2007, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Im not down on Chad, I actually prefer him as our QB right now. I just think that when the starting QB makes slow reads, always puts air under the ball, and cant throw over 30 yards, the jets are at a major disadvantage. And I'll leave it at that.
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Old 01-26-2007, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by El$anDollah
Im not down on Chad, I actually prefer him as our QB right now. I just think that when the starting QB makes slow reads, always puts air under the ball, and cant throw over 30 yards, the jets are at a major disadvantage. And I'll leave it at that.
Who also has a man open and lobs it setting up the reciever to be jacked up (ala Coles and Zach Thomas).
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsfan3
Quote:
Originally Posted by El$anDollah
Im not down on Chad, I actually prefer him as our QB right now. I just think that when the starting QB makes slow reads, always puts air under the ball, and cant throw over 30 yards, the jets are at a major disadvantage. And I'll leave it at that.
Who also has a man open and lobs it setting up the reciever to be jacked up (ala Coles and Zach Thomas).
You have no idea how much it ******* pisses me off when people say he has no arm strength. Clearly, he's no Culpepper, but coming from Jets fans, that astonishes me. If you've ever seen Pennington play, you'll know that he has more than adequate strength and puts more than adequate zip on the ball in order for it to get there. I've seen plenty, literally tons of plays where he zips the ball right between two defenders to Coles or Cotchery, or zips it in to a reciever on the sideline before he steps out. In any event, his touch more than makes up for where he lacks in arm strength.
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Also, what's with all these mocks giving us Ikaika Alama-Francis? Is this dude even ranked as a second rounder? Not in my book...

As of now, my big board's lookin like this...

1) Alan Branch
2) Jammal Anderson
3) Amobi Okoye
4) Adam Carriker
5) Marcus McCauley
6) Justin Blalock
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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Im sorry but Chad does not have a strong arm. He might have arguably the weakest arm of starting QBs. He has no zip. If he did, the WRs would not be taking a lot of big hits, especially Coles. We're lucky he's a warrior. As for his deep ball, he didn't throw over 35 yards the whole year. I sound like a Chad Hater but Im not. He still is the leader of the time. We had a great season. Im just sayin physically, hes not so good but his mental preparation is really good.
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvot9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsfan3
Quote:
Originally Posted by El$anDollah
Im not down on Chad, I actually prefer him as our QB right now. I just think that when the starting QB makes slow reads, always puts air under the ball, and cant throw over 30 yards, the jets are at a major disadvantage. And I'll leave it at that.
Who also has a man open and lobs it setting up the reciever to be jacked up (ala Coles and Zach Thomas).
You have no idea how much it *********** pisses me off when people say he has no arm strength. Clearly, he's no Culpepper, but coming from Jets fans, that astonishes me. If you've ever seen Pennington play, you'll know that he has more than adequate strength and puts more than adequate zip on the ball in order for it to get there. I've seen plenty, literally tons of plays where he zips the ball right between two defenders to Coles or Cotchery, or zips it in to a reciever on the sideline before he steps out. In any event, his touch more than makes up for where he lacks in arm strength.
I don't know what else to say besides that he has no arm. That's that. It's weak. It was weak 2 years ago, and 2 shoulder surgeries wont help that.
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsfan3
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvot9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsfan3
Quote:
Originally Posted by El$anDollah
Im not down on Chad, I actually prefer him as our QB right now. I just think that when the starting QB makes slow reads, always puts air under the ball, and cant throw over 30 yards, the jets are at a major disadvantage. And I'll leave it at that.
Who also has a man open and lobs it setting up the reciever to be jacked up (ala Coles and Zach Thomas).
You have no idea how much it *********** pisses me off when people say he has no arm strength. Clearly, he's no Culpepper, but coming from Jets fans, that astonishes me. If you've ever seen Pennington play, you'll know that he has more than adequate strength and puts more than adequate zip on the ball in order for it to get there. I've seen plenty, literally tons of plays where he zips the ball right between two defenders to Coles or Cotchery, or zips it in to a reciever on the sideline before he steps out. In any event, his touch more than makes up for where he lacks in arm strength.
I don't know what else to say besides that he has no arm. That's that. It's weak. It was weak 2 years ago, and 2 shoulder surgeries wont help that.
he does show adequate arm strength on many occasions but most of the time when he threads it in there its more likely to be a touch pass. His accuracy is so good that he often appears to have more arm strength than he does. He often leaves his recievers very vulnerable to the big hit on some throws. Often if you watch many of his intermediate outs you van see how little zip he really has on the ball. Don't get me wrong i love chad but trying to say he puts good zip on the ball is inaccurate.
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Old 01-27-2007, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvot9
Also, what's with all these mocks giving us Ikaika Alama-Francis? Is this dude even ranked as a second rounder? Not in my book...

As of now, my big board's lookin like this...

1) Alan Branch
2) Jammal Anderson
3) Amobi Okoye
4) Adam Carriker
5) Marcus McCauley
6) Justin Blalock
is that a list of the guys that you most want the jets to take? branch, anderson, and okoye are all totally unrealistic because none of them will fall to us at 25. also, i dont think anderson or okoye are fit for DL in the 3-4. blalock might be gone too, but i like mccauley and carriker
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Old 01-27-2007, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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heres my senior bowl update after the completion of the 1st quarter. ill keep it to guys that are relevant to the jets:

brian leonard- a few runs for good yardage, totally blowing up patrick willis (butkus winner-nations top LB) on one play. also caught a few balls and showed nice moves.

levin brown- good blocking

tony hunt- 6 carries for about 30 yards and a TD. looks amazing so far.

amobi okoye- 1 sack, blew up numerous plays.

carriker/blalock- matched up against each other. pretty even so far, nothing special from either. carriker got around him one time but okoye was already there for the sack.

aaron ross- decent coverage on rhema mcknight. nothing special

jason hill, WR, washington state (i said in a post 2 days ago about how he is going to be amazing in the nfl, and he is a mangini-type player)- 1 reverse for 40 yards. a few bad throws over his head

other stuff not-relevant to the jets:

troy smith looks absolutely horrendous. chris leak is decent so far. drew stanton just checked into the game. north is up 10-0
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Old 01-27-2007, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Unless Carriker doesn't run well, I don't think we have any shot at him. And we have no shot at Okoye regardless, but he doesn't fit our scheme at all. Looks like either starter in the North backfield would be an excellent pick for us.
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Old 01-27-2007, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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heres my senior bowl update after the completion of the 1st quarter. ill keep it to guys that are relevant to the jets:

brian leonard- a few runs for good yardage, totally blowing up patrick willis (butkus winner-nations top LB) on one play. also caught a few balls and showed nice moves.

levin brown- good blocking

tony hunt- 6 carries for about 30 yards and a TD. looks amazing so far.

amobi okoye- 1 sack, blew up numerous plays.

carriker/blalock- matched up against each other. pretty even so far, nothing special from either. carriker got around him one time but okoye was already there for the sack.

aaron ross- decent coverage on rhema mcknight. nothing special

jason hill, WR, washington state (i said in a post 2 days ago about how he is going to be amazing in the nfl, and he is a mangini-type player)- 1 reverse for 40 yards. a few bad throws over his head

other stuff not-relevant to the jets:

troy smith looks absolutely horrendous. chris leak is decent so far. drew stanton just checked into the game. north is up 10-0
Give us another update!
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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final senior bowl thoughts:

the best positional unit of the whole game was the north team's DL. carriker and okoye were in the backfield blowing up plays basically all day. jay moore (DE/OLB, Nebraska) also had a big day with 3 sacks and a forced fumble. he will probably be a passrushing OLB in the nfl, which is what i know a lot of jet fans want. however, i didnt hear demarcus tyler's name called all day. tony hunt definately was the standout today, and brian leonard also had a big day. the best WR was probably jason hill from washington state (my main man), who had a TD, a decent amount of receiving yardage and also a 40 year reverse. he was open all day but troy smith was missing him. he is known however for his excellent run blocking (like hines ward/coles). dwayne bowe had a relatively quiet day, as did most LBs and DBs. aaron ross from texas was pretty good in coverage, but had to sit down for a while after a blow to the head. as for QBs, stanton and leak were decent, and troy smith had 1 TD but looked horrible all day. tyler palko from pitt impressed a lot of people. he wasnt making amazing throws but he was just finding a way to move the ball downfield. blalock had a quiet day. levi brown looked pretty good in his blocking. basically to sum it all up, all DL that jet fans want did amazing, all FBs/RBs that jet fans want did amazing, jason hill did amazing, but anything else (LBs, DBs, OL,...) were pretty quiet
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:04 AM    (permalink
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Sorry dude, those RBs you named are WAY better than what we have. As of now at least. LW does get caught behind the line every once in a while but that comes from being a rookie and not having the vision from experience. Im convinced LW's going to improve this off season and we should only draft a RB if a stud slips to one of our 2nd round picks.

As far as D is concerned, what do you guys think of this DT Amobi Okoye from Louisville? He's only 19! He was getting PT at 16. He's a great player now and has the potential to be dominant in any scheme in a little while. But it is always risky drafting a player in the 1st round off of potential and risks doesnt seem to be Mangini's thing.
There are better, but not by as much as you think. I feel that Houston still has untapped potential. Okoye is Warren Sapp without the mouth(or the marijuana traces on draft day). He'll probably be drafted anywhere from #9-15.(Only thing working against him is height,which will show up at the combine). He is a perfect 3technique player in a Tampa 2 system, but can probably play in any system. He is absolutely a Mangini player. He's VERY smart, model citizen and a leader. He won't be there unless we want to give up one of our # 2's.
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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So do you think Carriker is realistc?
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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So do you think Carriker is realistc?
He has to do bad on his workouts.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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So do you think Carriker is realistc?
He has to do bad on his workouts.
Yeah, unfortunately I think thats how it is now. And if he does bad on his workouts, chances are some of us will jump off his bandwagon anyway.
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