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Old 09-30-2007, 03:54 PM    (permalink
JETS5128
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Yea, I agree, he's done nothing for the Jets while on the team. He hasn't played well at all this year...

Yes, I'm being god damn sarcastic.
He hasn't played that well this year. Look at the stats, no Ints, no FFs, no FRs, no Sacks, no PDs. Granted i remember against Miami he was frequently pressuring Green and was close to some sacks. But Vilma has just been solid this year. I think this has alot more to do with the line then it does him, but it doesn't hide the fact that Vilma hasn't been anything special this year. He still is the leader of our Defense though, and i think trading him would be ridiculous
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Old 09-30-2007, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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He hasn't played that well this year. Look at the stats, no Ints, no FFs, no FRs, no Sacks, no PDs. Granted i remember against Miami he was frequently pressuring Green and was close to some sacks. But Vilma has just been solid this year. I think this has alot more to do with the line then it does him, but it doesn't hide the fact that Vilma hasn't been anything special this year. He still is the leader of our Defense though, and i think trading him would be ridiculous
i have to agree. vilma has shown that he is making improvements in this defense, however much like ray lewis complained about a few years ago, i really beleive vilma's ability is being greatly hindered by the lack of our line. Now, i love drob but as much as i want to beleive it, he just isn't the new wave of athletic NTs. Maybe it isn't his size, but his strength. If someone can be his size and still maintain the point of attack than good for him, but the bigger he is the more he is going to get in the way of cutback lanes and such. They did do a decent job of keeping lynch from getting huge chunks of yards and over 100+, but a lot of that was becuase there were safeties and dbacks near the line of scrimmage. And from most of my buddies and girlfriend kept saying how bad our secondary was (yes she knows what a secondary is, ive taught her well! hah) which just shows how poor our pass rush is. After explaining to them how most good qbs if given time will shred a defense that isn't made up of 5 champ bailey, i realized we really cannot collapse a pocket with just our front 3 or 4. And ya, im not 100% sold on bob sutton either with the 3-4.
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Old 09-30-2007, 04:41 PM    (permalink
JETS5128
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i have to agree. vilma has shown that he is making improvements in this defense, however much like ray lewis complained about a few years ago, i really beleive vilma's ability is being greatly hindered by the lack of our line. Now, i love drob but as much as i want to beleive it, he just isn't the new wave of athletic NTs. Maybe it isn't his size, but his strength. If someone can be his size and still maintain the point of attack than good for him, but the bigger he is the more he is going to get in the way of cutback lanes and such. They did do a decent job of keeping lynch from getting huge chunks of yards and over 100+, but a lot of that was becuase there were safeties and dbacks near the line of scrimmage. And from most of my buddies and girlfriend kept saying how bad our secondary was (yes she knows what a secondary is, ive taught her well! hah) which just shows how poor our pass rush is. After explaining to them how most good qbs if given time will shred a defense that isn't made up of 5 champ bailey, i realized we really cannot collapse a pocket with just our front 3 or 4. And ya, im not 100% sold on bob sutton either with the 3-4.
Same thoughts over here. However, i think D-rob would be a good 3-4 DE, but in order to move him over we need to find a true NT, and true NT's are very hard to find. But that is our #1 need no doubt, 3-4 defenses revolve around the NT and it's no coincidence that SD, Pitt and NE have great D's and great NT's.
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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i hope the giants lose so i wont get laughed at in school tomorrow
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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i guess we're gonna get laughed at.....D'Brick vs. Osi is gonna be a marquee match-up next week, I'm kinda nervous for Chad's career, but at the same time maybe we could use a little Kellen Clemens in our lives
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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i guess we're gonna get laughed at.....D'Brick vs. Osi is gonna be a marquee match-up next week, I'm kinda nervous for Chad's career, but at the same time maybe we could use a little Kellen Clemens in our lives
Double Osi.

But then you have to deal with Kiwanuka.

Oh and don't forget about Tuck, who has been our most consistent DE this year.

Oh and Strahan, who has improved with each game.
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:24 AM    (permalink
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The Giants are about as consistent as a Pee Wee football team...Yea they had 12 sacks but the Eagles were missing 6 starters and 5 pro bowlers. That's something you say ok we won move on not brag about that's like trying to say we beat a college team we the sh!t. We have to pla more consistent than a powder puff team to beat the Giants as we looked anything but sharp sunday...I did say "don't sleep on Trent Edwards he was my 3rd QB last year in the draft" We need to have some better offensive playcalling by Schottenheimer and need to utilize TJ more. McCareins also messed up the route at the end of the game and went 9 (deep) instead of 6 (a curl) LC did it too to Chad...both looked like awful throws but they were magnified by the fact that the WRs were in the wrong spots and Chad had to throw it too early bc he was being pressured.
The Defense looks AWFUL....Same blitzing packages, but they just seem to be eaten up at the line. I want a new DT OLB and #2 CB. A lot of improvements need to be made for this team to seem decent....
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Old 10-01-2007, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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Yaa the osi matchup is gonna be tough, but than again so is the matchup every weekend for him; jason taylor, jarvis green, schobel etc. Yes osi had 6 sacks, but he absolutely made winston justice look like a college player. Winston can't go one on one with Osi and it was magnified, however i feel dbrick is significantly better than justice and will do a better job. And once again i felt that our play calling was extremely bland and i hate the fact we dont seem to worry about scoring or seem in any bit of a hurry until the last 2 minutes of the halves. Mangini has said that it came down to the 2 minutes 10 games last year roughly, well maybe it is becuase we dont ever score consistently and are up by 2 tds at the half or the end. And when we do score almost frequently, our defense lets the other team do it to. It just seems we play to the level of our teams and just don't go all out every play. Now, this isn't everyone im just sayin i dont see the fire in everyone.
I also have a question; is the FO planning on using jacob bender for a RT or guard?
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Changing my username is in no way disrespect for the great Mangini... Unfortunately I'm OCD so it had to be changed. Wanna help rebuild my rep?!
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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I don't even know you anymore.
i'm... so... sorry... all my usernames are timdris something and it all HAS to be the same.
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I'm so sick and tired of the 3-4 defense. It is the one *major* flaw with our team right now, and it could *so easily* be fixed. We have one player who is better in the 3-4, and arguably the rest are better in the 4-3 (not to mention Vilma, who I could almost guarantee would be a top 3 MLB by now if we stayed with the 4-3 the whole time). We can't stop the run (or rush the QB) because we simply do not have anyone to command a double team. Mangini, I love you, but seriously.

The way things are going, it will be another 2-3 years before we have the personnel in place to run the 3-4, and by then we're going to need another WR and a new franchise running back. Not to mention the fact that we need to address our O-Line pretty damn badly in the next few drafts and FA's.

Seriously, life would be so much easier if Mangini just admitted he was wrong, and went to the 4-3.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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It's true, the 3-4 is extremely ineffective without the correct personnel
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Old 10-02-2007, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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ive said this before in this thread, we have 2 (maybe 3) guys fit for the 3-4.... Thomas, Harris, and Coleman... Yet our top defenders are built for the 4-3 (Vilma, Robertson, Ellis, Hobson).. A switch to the 4-3 would help a lot with the run stopping and pass rushing (both have been ineffective)
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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"The Jets mixed defensive fronts against the Bills, using four down linemen on 12 of the 27 first-half plays. But they used four linemen only three times in the second half, when the Bills scored all 17 of their points. The Bills averaged 6.2 yards a play against the four-man fronts. Against the three-man fronts, they averaged 5.5 yards."
granted the yardage could come to the safeties being up at the line of scrimmage, but it seems the overall consensus is that we are best suited for a 4-3. I dont mind running the 3-4, but mix it up and dont do it the majority until we have the personel.
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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in order to do the 3-4 we NEED a dominant NT. i mean that position is the most important in the 3-4 because it is the anchor of the defense. robertson is a good DT but not a NT. without having a NT we should not be using the 3-4 the majority of the time.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I thought you guys would be the best people to ask, what is going on with Thomas Jones? I expected massive things from him this year, he was good last year with the Bears and i thought your O-Line was even better than theirs. Is it his calf, the O-Line or something else? Thanks for the help.

p.s Im a Steelers fan, and seems i know the 3-4 prety well, i can safely say, that this year your D' would be much better playing a base 4-3. You have to have a plugger as NT, and Robertson is more of a penetrator.
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I thought you guys would be the best people to ask, what is going on with Thomas Jones? I expected massive things from him this year, he was good last year with the Bears and i thought your O-Line was even better than theirs. Is it his calf, the O-Line or something else? Thanks for the help.

p.s Im a Steelers fan, and seems i know the 3-4 prety well, i can safely say, that this year your D' would be much better playing a base 4-3. You have to have a plugger as NT, and Robertson is more of a penetrator.
I would say it is mostly the line not consistently opening up holes and possibly play calling? I really think that the idea for bringing him here would be to open up the play-action that pennington runs second to only peyton manning in my eyes. THe problem is, we havn't run the ball or passed the ball extremely well on a consistent basis, so the defense doesn't really have to key in on anything. As of now I would say the opposing defenses dont have to game plan around one particular aspect of our game and until we are consistently hurting teams with a particular part of our offense it is going to stay that way.
As for your assesment of our defense, i would say a large group of us would 100% agree. Although I would like to think that the coaches know more about football than us and wouldn't do anything stupid just to fuel their ego.
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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I think another major problem with Thomas Jones and our passing game as well is our inability to get the ball downfield. Teams are able to stack the box to stop the run and have more defenders in the area of our where our short passes are going to go, because they don't fear us going over the top and getting a big play. It hurts both the pass and run game, the only reason we're able to pass the ball is because Pennington is unbelievably accurate, and even so our receivers often get hit hard after making catches because defenders can anticipate the short passes.
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Cheers for the info man, Good luck against the G-Men.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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I was upset to learn that coleman's head injury was updated to a concussion. However, I am looking forward to see what Eric smith can do if he does indeed start. From everything that I heard during preseason, he had the starting job all but locked up until he hurt his hammy.

I know he's been doing some ST and whatnot, but is his hammy 100% and if it has been why hasn't he been starting? Is it cause he missed too much practice or what?


and in unrelated jets news. if you guys love guitar, check out duane allman's multiple solos on derek and the domninoes, they'll change your life hah.
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Old 10-07-2007, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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We need to beat the Gmen today. I live in NJ so i hear so much from Giants fans, and today better be the day where they all shut up. I have a bunch of money plus a week straight of jersey bets (if gmen win i have to wear giants jerseys to school for a week), so the Jets better come out on top.
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Old 10-07-2007, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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we just flat out are not going to win games when pennington makes careless errors like that. This is the 2nd week in a row he pretty much gave the game away towards the end. He makes nice plays and calls throughout the game, then it seems at some points you just can't fahtom what he just did. Now, I love chad, always have but 2:5 td:int ratio the last two game is unacceptable. Especially since they were two very winnable games. Now, I'm not hating on chad becuase we lost, I just hate seeing these turnoevers late in the game that we can't come back from. I feel that Clemens deserves his shot now that we are 1-4.

Some good things however; Dbrick and the line played pretty well against a giants team that had double digit sacks in the last game. Up until that last sack where osi hurt himself, dbrick looked good against him. I did like seeing chris baker being more involved in the pass game, he has terrific hands.

This is the 2nd straight week where chad took a hit after he released the ball, and you know if that was on Tom brady it would have been called in a second. There was no excuse for a no-call considering it was right in front of the ref. Oh well, I will be looking forward to hearing what everyone else thought about the game.
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Old 10-07-2007, 03:35 PM    (permalink
AlexDown
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21 unanswered points? Give me a break

After Eli's interception, weren't we on the 30 with around 35 seconds left? How come we didn't take a shot at 6? I think we had at least one TO.

Nugent has to get his act together. It was nice to see him make that last one (barely), but these are really costing us. Last week, we could have been driving for the win not the tie.

Pennington's play has really declined these last two weeks. Last week wasn't terrible but his turnovers are killing us. The first and 3rd picks were not nearly as bad as that second pick.

EDIT: Also, to be perfectly honest, I wasn't really worried at all with the loss of Miller when it happened and am not worried at all now.

Defense had a few big stops, especially giving us an opportunity on that last drive before the 3rd INT, but they seemed like they could not stop the Giants offense. Giants first possession in the second half, they scored in like 8 plays.
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Old 10-07-2007, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe how much this team has regressed from last year. Last year this kind of game would've been in the bag at half-time. I'm already starting to lose faith in Mangini. Going by last year, games like this would never have even been imagined.

I certainly didn't expect this team to win very much this year, but to lose like this is just ridiculous.
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