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Old 11-09-2006, 03:06 PM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright
As I mentioned in my blog the other day it's kind of crazy that the Raiders o-line is so bad because they have invested draft picks there, including a lot of high ones. So if you ask me the problem then comes down to either coaching or scouting. I am inclined to say coaching isn't the problem because they have had two coaching staffs with the same problem and now there are Hall of Fame o-linemen trying to whip them into shape. That leaves poor scouting as the reason for me...
I would say poor coaching actually. These guys do have talent. Just as Scott Wright about Robert Gallery and Jake Grove. (that would be you) And Langston Walker was very highly rated as well when we drafted him. Kevin Boothe has actually been playing well and Sims... Well, he actually was performing well under Kromer.

The Raiders' offensive line needs 1 of 2 things. They need more time. Or they need a new coaching staff. After going out and drafting Boothe and McQuistan this year, they've got 4 offensive linemen with less than 3 full years of service time, and a fifth with just a year or two more in Langston Walker. In those 3 years, Grove, Gallery and Walker have actually had 4 offensive line coaches. They had Aaron Kromer in 2004, Jim Colletto in 2005 and now they have Jackie Slater (Hall of Fame player, not coach) and Irv Eatman (Pro Bowl player, but not necessarily a good coach), not to mention Art Shell trying to jump in and "help" them out when he has the chance.

Under Kromer, the offensive line that consisted of Sims at LT, Brad Badger at LG, Adam Treu/Jake Grove at C, Ron Stone at RG and Robert Gallery the rookie at RT gave up only 30 sacks on the whole season--and that's with Mr. Immobility Jr. Kerry Collins at QB for every single game after halftime in Week 3. (Sr. being Drew Bledsoe) That was good for 6th in the league.

Then, under Jim Colletto, with the same personnell, the offensive line gave up a total of 45 sacks--that's 15 extra sacks, good for an extra 50%--dropping the unit down to 24th in the league, tied with such offensive line powerhouses as Cleveland and Arizona.

Now, under the "Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers" the Raiders have reached a total of 44 sacks halfway through the season. They have completely shifted the line around, but with such "great coaches" you would expect them to be able to at least get something out of little or no talent right? So far they have been able to get the least amount of results with nearly the same talent that Aaron Kromer and Jim Colletto had.

Oh, and did I mention that the Raiders ranked last in rushing yards and rushing attempts in 2004? They didn't even try to fool the opposing defenses that they were running the football, ranking 4th in passing attempts with 582.

So adding in the failed pass attempts that ended in sacks, they had the QB drop back 612 times. The sack rate per pass play was once every 20.4. That was definitely among the best in the league.

In 2005, the Raiders' offense was once again pass happy, ranking 6th in pass attempts with 591. They actually ranked 5th in pass plays when adding their sacks allowed into the equation. The sack rate per play under coach Jim Colletto dropped to a less than stellar 14.1. And once again, the Raiders ranked near last in the league in rushing attempts at 31, and 29th in rushing yards.

This year, under the "Hall of Famers and Pro Bowler" the Raiders rushing attack ranks middle of the pack, at 18 in yards per game and 23 in attempts. Certainly not a "grind-it-out" offense, but definitely an improvement on the ground over the last two years, but it certainly hasn't been fooling the opposing pass rushers. Ranking 2nd to last in pass attempts, the Raiders are giving up a sack once every 5.8 pass plays. That makes Jim Colletto's 24th ranked unit look like All-Pros.

But wait, these are nearly identical units... The only new player is Kevin Boothe, and he has been doing arguably the best job of all the 5 of them, so we can't really blame it on the talent, now can we? If we can't blame it on the talent the players have, we can't bring out the argument that the ineptitude of this offensive line is caused by poor scouting.

So assuming that you are correct Scott, and the Raiders' offensive line problems stem from one of two things, we must then assume that the Raiders have a poor offensive line because the Raiders' offensive line has poor coaching.

If you want visual evidence of this, watch the Raiders' offensive line during the game, particularly Robert Gallery and Jake Grove. They have had five different voices in their ears over the course of two and a half years. From the second they get set on the line to the end of the play, watch their faces--their eyes in particular. They are out there trying to think. It's like they have a calculus problem they are trying to work out in their heads. On the football field, especially on the offensive line, the last thing you should have to be doing is thinking. This is caused by two things. First, it would be caused by the previously stated lack of continuity in their coaches. And secondly, it would be caused by an extremely difficult style of coaching that they are attempting to learn this year. Likely, I would say it is a combination of both of these factors.

By these numbers, one could argue that the talent is not the problem, the talent is there because it is the same talent that was one of the best units in pass protection just two years ago, but rather that it is a problem with coaching. Thus, the best solution may not be the easy solution of draft or signing a completely new offensive line, but rather the tough solution of taking the time to let this unit get used to this coaching staff and style of blocking.
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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And NIP: I mentioned that on another forum, how Kromer actually had our so called offensive (more like girls line) line doing pretty good.
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Komp
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.
Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by locseti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komp
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.
Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.
There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by locseti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komp
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.
Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.
There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.
how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by locseti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komp
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.
Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.
There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.
how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.
We'll just have to take a couple picks back to the house since our offense can't do jack. :D
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by locseti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komp
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.
Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.
There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.
how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.
I don't know about Sarf, but I know I could even get to Jake Plummer as long as those ********************************** on the Denver line didn't slide 3 guys over to take my knees out. I'm just a studmuffin like that.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by locseti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komp
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.
Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.
There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.
how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.
I don't know about Sarf, but I know I could even get to Jake Plummer as long as those ********************************** on the Denver line didn't slide 3 guys over to take my knees out. I'm just a studmuffin like that.
dang it. "we" does NOT refer to the raiders. =P just because my team thread sucks and i'm forced to post in yours...
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by locseti
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komp
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.
Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.
There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.
how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.
I don't know about Sarf, but I know I could even get to Jake Plummer as long as those ********************************** on the Denver line didn't slide 3 guys over to take my knees out. I'm just a studmuffin like that.
dang it. "we" does NOT refer to the raiders. =P just because my team thread sucks and i'm forced to post in yours...
I know. I'm just making a point that it's not really saying much about the Raiders' offensive line since I could get the Broncos' offensive line. Geez... You totally ruined the joke by making me explain it.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular
I know. I'm just making a point that it's not really saying much about the Raiders' offensive line since I could get the Broncos' offensive line. Geez... You totally ruined the joke by making me explain it.
muahahaha.

no, i won't act like that was intentional.

i don't know... if i remember right, keak thinks they'd see your knees coming from 20 miles away.

on the other hand, gallery could see you coming from that far out and he still wouldn't be able to stop the bull rush.
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Old 11-09-2006, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular
I know. I'm just making a point that it's not really saying much about the Raiders' offensive line since I could get the Broncos' offensive line. Geez... You totally ruined the joke by making me explain it.
muahahaha.

no, i won't act like that was intentional.

i don't know... if i remember right, keak thinks they'd see your knees coming from 20 miles away.

on the other hand, gallery could see you coming from that far out and he still wouldn't be able to stop the bull rush.
Ouch... You're mean...
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Default yep....

Yah I didn't know Denver had lots of injuries. Really its up to the OL and Moss. If Moss feels like showing up and the OL blocks 2 out of every 3 downs we will do well.

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Mr. Dukes comes from the Michael Irvin "talk loud and maybe people will think I know what I am talking about" school of football analysis.
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Nice, the Jack Tatum sig works...
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Mr. Dukes comes from the Michael Irvin "talk loud and maybe people will think I know what I am talking about" school of football analysis.
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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one things for sure : the Rats gameplan will be infinitely more intrical than ours; its gonna be up to our superior athletes to offset the Rats coaching prowess - and our offensive staffs lack there of.
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think of Schweigert's play? A lot of mocks have us taking a safety early but I dont think he needs to be replaced yet
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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If Rouse falls to us, Id prefer him over Stewie Shweigey
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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I think we should go elsewhere early on other than safety.
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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i know we wont pick a safety that early, but I really like Rouse - He's a hitter not a quitter
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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i know we wont pick a safety that early, but I really like Rouse - He's a hitter not a quitter
I guess I haven't seen him play often enough to comment on him.
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Old 11-09-2006, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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this team has way too many needs elsewhere to think about anywhere in the secondary. Schwig has been playing very well and everyone in the secondary is growing. Basically, we could use a NT, a DE and minorly (as a luxury) a strongside LB upgrade. Other than that, the defense is fine. The offense is the one to worry about. Look at RB, TE, WR, WR, RT, FB. (note: if McQuistan is going to move to RT, then we need another OG) We may need a center, allowing Grove to move to OG.
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Old 11-09-2006, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Default yep

I agree. I wouldn't mind going defense in the 1st rd and taking one of the elite DT/DE prospects [Gaines Adams, Branch, Woodley] and than taking a good OT/G in the 2nd, TE in the 3rd, grab a big hitter SS to come in for Nickel situations and maybe try to find some small school gems for some offensive skill positions.

I don't think we should use our early picks for skill positions on offense. Jordan has at least 2 years left in at RB [plus I'm a HUGE fan of his] and our WR is more a problem of dysfunction than it is a lack of skill at the position. TE is obviously lacking and has been for years. If we fix that OL we have a good enough offense to win games considering the way our defense is progressing. They will be even better next year with another year of experience plus a 1st rd stud DT/DE.

That's my two cents on next years draft....
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Old 11-09-2006, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular
this team has way too many needs elsewhere to think about anywhere in the secondary. Schwig has been playing very well and everyone in the secondary is growing. Basically, we could use a NT, a DE and minorly (as a luxury) a strongside LB upgrade. Other than that, the defense is fine. The offense is the one to worry about. Look at RB, TE, WR, WR, RT, FB. (note: if McQuistan is going to move to RT, then we need another OG) We may need a center, allowing Grove to move to OG.
What if Rouse fell to the third or fourth round though, and was the best player available, regardless of what our team needs are, you have to pick the best player available, especially if its an upgrade IMO. Shweigy gets burnt alot and is not a real physical presence, Rouse seems to me to be a Sean Taylor type.
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular
this team has way too many needs elsewhere to think about anywhere in the secondary. Schwig has been playing very well and everyone in the secondary is growing. Basically, we could use a NT, a DE and minorly (as a luxury) a strongside LB upgrade. Other than that, the defense is fine. The offense is the one to worry about. Look at RB, TE, WR, WR, RT, FB. (note: if McQuistan is going to move to RT, then we need another OG) We may need a center, allowing Grove to move to OG.
yup pretty much on the money I'd say.
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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Default Yah

Yah, I know nothing about this Rouse player either. Like I said, I don't mind taking a physical DB in the 4th or later....but we need DL/OL/TE way before secondary, where we already have a lot of youth.
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