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Old 03-07-2009, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Because they had the exact same amount of carries and played the exact same competition, right?
Yep, they did play the same exact competition. As a matter of fact, Greene did better against Northwestern, Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan State and Penn State than did Wells. Whose opinions make zero sense now?
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Yep, they did play the same exact competition. As a matter of fact, Greene did better against Northwestern, Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan State and Penn State than did Wells. Whose opinions make zero sense now?
No, they didn't play the exact same competition. Maine, Florida International, Iowa State, Pitt...ringing a bell? There are games out of conference too. Just a little FYI, in case you didn't know.

Not to mention, anyone who saw both Iowa and OSU play can tell you Iowa's OL was infinitely better.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30123

I didn't make a single post in that thread. I didn't even know you created it. Try otra vez.
Why don't you tell me more about this thread I allegedly posted in?
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Mike Hart was second in the Big 10 in rushing as a junior. He was clearly a superior prospect to guys like your beloved Tony Hunt, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Wells etc...
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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No, they didn't play the exact same competition. Maine, Florida International, Iowa State, Pitt...ringing a bell? There are games out of conference too. Just a little FYI, in case you didn't know.

Not to mention, anyone who saw both Iowa and OSU play can tell you Iowa's OL was infinitely better.
Iowa's offensive line has about as many NFL prospects as Ohio State's, and even though he sucked at pass pro, Alex Boone was still a decent run blocker.

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Old 03-07-2009, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Mike Hart was second in the Big 10 in rushing as a junior. He was clearly a superior prospect to guys like your beloved Tony Hunt, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Wells etc...
What does Hart have anything to do with this?

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Old 03-07-2009, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Mike Hart was second in the Big 10 in rushing as a junior. He was clearly a superior prospect to guys like your beloved Tony Hunt, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Wells etc...
2006
Mike Hart: 1,562 yards, 4.9 YPC 14 TD
Tony Hunt: 1,386, 5.0 YPC, 11 TD
Rashard Mendenhall: 640 yards, 8.2 YPC 5 TD

Essentially the only difference is the number of carries, and Hart did this with one of the better offensive line prospects I've ever seen. You get an A for effort though ;)
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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Iowa's offensive line has about as many NFL prospects as Ohio State's, and even though he sucked at pass pro, Alex Boone was still a decent run blocker.
Iowa's offensive line was 50x better than Ohio State. This isn't up for debate.

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Originally Posted by twista6002 View Post
2006
Mike Hart: 1,562 yards, 4.9 YPC 14 TD
Tony Hunt: 1,386, 5.0 YPC, 11 TD
Rashard Mendenhall: 640 yards, 8.2 YPC 5 TD

Essentially the only difference is the number of carries, and Hart did this with one of the better offensive line prospects I've ever seen. You get an A for effort though ;)
Yeah, but he led the conference in rushing. That automatically means he's the best pro prospect, right? Kliff Kingsbury was a better pro prospect than everyone else because he threw for the most yards, right?

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Why don't you tell me more about this thread I allegedly posted in?
Still waiting...
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Iowa's offensive line was 50x better than Ohio State. This isn't up for debate.
LOL I hope you're not serious.



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Yeah, but he led the conference in rushing. That automatically means he's the best pro prospect, right? Kliff Kingsbury was a better pro prospect than everyone else because he threw for the most yards, right?
I don't understand the point you're making here.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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LOL I hope you're not serious.
I am. Why do you assume I'm not? Just because Ohio State was a better team doesn't mean that they have a better OL. Iowa's OL gave up less sacks despite 53 more pass attempts. Iowa's OL averaged 0.13 more yards per carry. Bryan Bulaga and Seth Olsen of Iowa were both significantly better than any OL that OSU had. Iowa had two OL make the All-Big 10 team and OSU had one (Boone, which we both know was a crock of ****).

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I don't understand the point you're making here.
Jesus, how dense are you? You're making the case that Greene is a better prospect than Wells because he had better stats. What I'm trying to explain to you is that better stats don't always correlate with better pro prospect.

Find where I posted yet? You seem to have magically edited that quote out.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I am. Why do you assume I'm not? Just because Ohio State was a better team doesn't mean that they have a better OL. Iowa's OL gave up less sacks despite 53 more pass attempts. Iowa's OL averaged 0.13 more yards per carry. Bryan Bulaga and Seth Olsen of Iowa were both significantly better than any OL that OSU had. Iowa had two OL make the All-Big 10 team and OSU had one (Boone, which we both know was a crock of ****).



Jesus, how dense are you? You're making the case that Greene is a better prospect than Wells because he had better stats. What I'm trying to explain to you is that better stats don't always correlate with better pro prospect.

Find where I posted yet? You seem to have magically edited that quote out.
.13 more YPC! STOP THE PRESSES!


And Greene's YPC was still greater than a .13 difference from Wells.

Oh and Wells had a QB teams had to gameplan around, whereas Greene was the entire Iowa offense, and he still had a better year. Wells had Robiskie and Pryor. Greene had um...Richard Stanzi and um Derrell Koulianos. Basically guys that would be on the bench at OSU.

And to get to your point about Hart, the only difference between him and Hunt and Mendenhall was carries. Hunt had a slightly better year in terms of YPC and Mendenhall easily eclipses him in that category. And Hart did that with one of the best run blocking lineman I've ever seen in college.

Oh and sorry about accusing you of posting in my Greene > Beanie thread, but with the way you act when either name is mentioned, you couldn't blame me.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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.13 more YPC! STOP THE PRESSES!


And Greene's YPC was still greater than a .13 difference from Wells.
Again, Greene got to play against an absolutely awful out of conference schedule.

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Oh and Wells had a QB teams had to gameplan around
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA that's ******* epic. Yeah, teams gameplan around true freshman QBs all the time. You fail.

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whereas Greene was the entire Iowa offense, and he still had a better year. Wells had Robiskie and Pryor. Greene had um...Richard Stanzi and um Derrell Koulianos. Basically guys that would be on the bench at OSU.
Koulianos- 44 catches, 639 yards, 14.5 ypc, 3 TD
Robiskie- 42 catches, 535 yards, 12.7 ypc, 8 TD

Iowa had three guys with at least 34 receptions. Ohio State had one. Iowa had six guys with double-digit receptions. Ohio State had five. Pryor and Stanzi were basically a wash throwing the ball.

Quote:
And to get to your point about Hart, the only difference between him and Hunt and Mendenhall was carries. Hunt had a slightly better year in terms of YPC and Mendenhall easily eclipses him in that category. And Hart did that with one of the best run blocking lineman I've ever seen in college.
Super. Jake Long was great. Did you ever bother watching the other four OL? Dog ****. Absolute crappiness.

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Oh and sorry about accusing you of posting in my Greene > Beanie thread, but with the way you act when either name is mentioned, you couldn't blame me.
So in the end, you've done nothing to refute your belief that the best way to determine who the better prospect is stems purely from collegiate stats. You'd probably draft Timmy Chang #1 overall.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Again, Greene got to play against an absolutely awful out of conference schedule.
Common opponents

Minnesota
Wells: 17-106-0
Greene: 22-144-2

Wisconsin:
Wells: 22-168-1
Greene: 25-217-4

Purdue
Wells: 22-94-0
Greene: 30-211-2

Michigan State
Wells: 31-140-2
Greene: 30-157-0

Penn State
Wells: 22-55-0
Greene: 28-117-2

Northwestern
Wells: 28-140-2
Greene: 21-159-1

Illinois
Wells: 24-143-1
Greene: 21-103-1

Total stats against common opponents (7 games)
Wells: 166 carries, 846 yards, 6 TD, 5.10 YPC
Greene: 177 carries, 1,089, 12 TD, 6.15 YPC


That's a pretty vast difference.


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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA that's ******* epic. Yeah, teams gameplan around true freshman QBs all the time. You fail.
Big 10 defenses aren't stupid. Pryor isn't your average freshman QB. Believe me, he was taken into consideration every week when a team was gameplanning. And even if he isn't as great as advertised, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to be more worried about him than Richard Stanzi.


Quote:
Koulianos- 44 catches, 639 yards, 14.5 ypc, 3 TD
Robiskie- 42 catches, 535 yards, 12.7 ypc, 8 TD

Iowa had three guys with at least 34 receptions. Ohio State had one. Iowa had six guys with double-digit receptions. Ohio State had five. Pryor and Stanzi were basically a wash throwing the ball.
Iowa as a team also threw the ball 53 more times than OSU.

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Super. Jake Long was great. Did you ever bother watching the other four OL? Dog ****. Absolute crappiness.
And Michigan still had as many NFL prospects on its line as PSU. And Jake Long is a hell of a lot better than Levi Brown.



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So in the end, you've done nothing to refute your belief that the best way to determine who the better prospect is stems purely from collegiate stats. You'd probably draft Timmy Chang #1 overall.
Way to be a simpleton. Chang played in a pass-happy gimmick offense against no real competition. If you were to tell me 2 guys played in similar offenses against the same competition and one was vastly better, I'd take him.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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Jeez guys, ever heard of the draft thread? I don't want either of them, Shady FTW!
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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Jeez guys, ever heard of the draft thread? I don't want either of them, Shady FTW!
Yes I agree.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Knowshon.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Knowshon.
Ditto...........
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Can't go wrong with Moreno or McCoy. Just for the love of god no Wells
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Personally I'm fine with all 3. Any combo of Wells, Moreno, McCoy, Oher, Pettigrew, Britton, Nicks and Britt is fine with me in the first.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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I know it's very unlikely, but Moreno and Nicks in the 1st would be amazing and give me a tingly feeling in my pants.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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I don't know how you feel about the current line situation, but to me Britton is more of a RT than LT. I watched him in HS and he always had feet that were a tad slow. Strong as an ox though. He could play guard too IMO. I just don't see him panning out as a LT. If we really want an LT this draft, we should try to trade for Monroe or J. Smith. Beaty isn't a 1st rounder. If not a LT, but still a lineman, we can probably sit and wait for Oher or Britton, maybe A. Smith or Mack.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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I don't know how you feel about the current line situation, but to me Britton is more of a RT than LT. I watched him in HS and he always had feet that were a tad slow. Strong as an ox though. He could play guard too IMO. I just don't see him panning out as a LT. If we really want an LT this draft, we should try to trade for Monroe or J. Smith. Beaty isn't a 1st rounder. If not a LT, but still a lineman, we can probably sit and wait for Oher or Britton, maybe A. Smith or Mack.
OK I agree that Britton is more of a RT but Beatty isn't a LT?

Wow. He is one of my favorites. He has the feet, quickness, long arms and technique to keep most pass rushers at bay. All he needs to do is get stronger and he is a good if not great LT in the NFL.

Andre Smith is a RT or an OG. I love Alex Mack and would love to get him.

Oher just screams second coming of Winston Justice to me. Same build, same hype, same athleticism, mental questions and are being hyped based on potential not on results in college.

I am weary of trading up in the draft but getting Monroe or Smith would be FANTASTIC.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Knowshon.
not his biggest fan. I see him as being very average, you know, the guy that gets 800-1100 yards a year with 5-8 TDs on like 4.1 yards a carry. I don't like him because he just doesn't have an area where he stands out, is he a gamebreaker? No. Is he a powerback? No. He gets by on fundamentals alot of the time and thats all well and good but...

I'm just not a fan. He will be good but not the type of RB I would want on the Eagles.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
OK I agree that Britton is more of a RT but Beatty isn't a LT?

Wow. He is one of my favorites. He has the feet, quickness, long arms and technique to keep most pass rushers at bay. All he needs to do is get stronger and he is a good if not great LT in the NFL.

Andre Smith is a RT or an OG. I love Alex Mack and would love to get him.

Oher just screams second coming of Winston Justice to me. Same build, same hype, same athleticism, mental questions and are being hyped based on potential not on results in college.

I am weary of trading up in the draft but getting Monroe or Smith would be FANTASTIC.
Should've reworded it. I said Beatty is LT (and almost strictly LT) but he isn't 1st round caliber.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
not his biggest fan. I see him as being very average, you know, the guy that gets 800-1100 yards a year with 5-8 TDs on like 4.1 yards a carry. I don't like him because he just doesn't have an area where he stands out, is he a gamebreaker? No. Is he a powerback? No. He gets by on fundamentals alot of the time and thats all well and good but...

I'm just not a fan. He will be good but not the type of RB I would want on the Eagles.
If you don't think his elusiveness is an area where he stands out, I question whether you have seen many of his games. He doesn't have top end speed, but he is a bit faster on the field than his 4.6 leads you to believe. He is good catching the ball, between the tackles, and will embarass you in space. Granted he may not be the guy who takes it 80 yards because he won't outrun many NFL safeties and cornerbacks, but he isn't going to be an Edgerrin James either. I expect he will be a damn good running back in the NFL because he is patient, has great vision, and extremely good body control. If the Eagles got him I would be very excited, but I would prefer us get a bigger more powerful back since we already have Westbrook.
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