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Old 04-10-2012, 04:38 PM    (permalink
Bobo
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
What do you all think about Gilmore at No. 20? Kirkpatrick?
Not bad picks, but I'd like to see what Verner has as a full time starter. I generally would rather want d-line drafted high, assuming the player warrants that high of a pick.

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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
Personally, I think Harris is an adequate starter, not a star but not horrible. On the other hand I think Amano is trash at Center, but adequate at guard.

Rumors were when we resigned Mike Otto that we'd let him compete at Guard for a starting job too
If I had to choose between the two, I'd pick Harris over Amano. Either way, it looks like they don't think getting Hutchinson was enough, yet they didn't land any of the FA centers they talked to.

Makes you think there's a strong possibility for a C or possibly G being taken in the draft. I'd be really surprised if we took Konz in the first or if he slipped to our 2nd round pick. I saw Molk a few times, and he looked solid. He's a bit small and not sure if he'd be much of an upgrade, but with 2 HOF o-lineman on this staff, we should be able to draft o-line well lol

I can't remember seeing Otto at G, but that may be worth a shot.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Not bad picks, but I'd like to see what Verner has as a full time starter. I generally would rather want d-line drafted high, assuming the player warrants that high of a pick.



If I had to choose between the two, I'd pick Harris over Amano. Either way, it looks like they don't think getting Hutchinson was enough, yet they didn't land any of the FA centers they talked to.

Makes you think there's a strong possibility for a C or possibly G being taken in the draft. I'd be really surprised if we took Konz in the first or if he slipped to our 2nd round pick. I saw Molk a few times, and he looked solid. He's a bit small and not sure if he'd be much of an upgrade, but with 2 HOF o-lineman on this staff, we should be able to draft o-line well lol

I can't remember seeing Otto at G, but that may be worth a shot.
I think Molk is really stout for his size, he compares well to Chris Myers. I think he's perfect for our scheme.

I've never seen Otto at guard, just what I heard Idk if that'd be a good fit or not. I think they just wanna get him more playing time if hes decent there
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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I think Molk is really stout for his size, he compares well to Chris Myers. I think he's perfect for our scheme.
Yeah he looked strong to me when I saw him. I guess the only thing that makes me a bit apprehensive is the upside in the measurables isn't there...otoh, that stuff can totally be overrated. If he's really a mid to late round pick like most are saying, I'd be happy with the pick.

I like your mocks you had on the previous page. Well thought out stuff. I'm going to try one for the hell of it.

1. Devon Still - DT
He may be somewhat inconsistent, but when he's on he can be dominant. A nice combination of size/strength/athleticism for the d-line rotation.

2. Brandon Brooks - OG
Tremendous size and athleticism. Some say he needs technique work...what better place to come for that.

3. Martin Markelle - S
Preparing to possibly lose Griffin, and we need S depth. Good size and athleticism with an amazing # of passes defended.

4. Malik Jackson - DE/DT
Ditto MightyTitan9.

5. Asa Jackson - CB
Around the time I'd guess the Titans look for CB depth.

6. Eric Page - WR
Very productive WR who can backup Mariani as a returner.

7. Tim Fugger - DE
May be similar to Jacob Ford, which is a solid investment at this point in the draft. With him, Wimbley, Morgan, and hopefully using Ayers to rush the passer more this year, we could have a legitimate outside rush.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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I like it Bobo, the only player I dislike is Brooks. While I still am unable to find film on him, from what I've read he gets by largely on his size.

In addition, to me Munch has always taken players that are hard workers, sometimes a little small, and have good technique or ones that he can teach. To me, Brooks just doesn't seem like a guy Munch wants.

Munch was about 6'3" 260, he played with or coach Stepnoski who was 6'2" 265. While that was some time ago, there were still bigger guys. Point is, he always seems to me that he likes smaller quicker guys on the interior that can pull, not big maulers
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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I haven't seen Brooks, just going by some things I read. He's huge, I've read he plays strong. I've read he moves well and that he doesn't, so who knows. Pillar, Olsen, Stewart would fit the more strength than athleticism mold, Hopkins, Roos, Bell lean the other way. So I haven't figured out a mold they only stick with, but it seems they typically don't want to spend really high picks on them. I kinda wanted a DE in the 2nd in that little mock, but not sure there will be good value at our pick. Of course it's all guess work, who knows who drops and who is thought of highly by the Titans.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Good point Bobo, while I agree Pillar and Olson were more power than athletic, they still played around the 320 range. I could very well be wrong, but unless Brooks can play around 325-330 I'm just having a hard time picturing him as a Titan.

I agree with the value in the 2nd round for DE's, of course that's by the sites that I'm using but I really think a DE will fall to us at #52 if we don't take one in the first.

I ask myself sometimes if Munch just sees talent differently on the offensive line or if it's his coaching or somewhat both. Roos was a 2nd round pick by him, Olson was a 5th, Stewart was a 4th, even though I hate him as a center, Amano has played pretty well for a 7th rounder. Jacob bell was a 5th too if I'm not mistaken.

If munch has faith in someone and waits until the 5th before addressing O-Line at all, that's fine with me. If he sees elite talent at #20 and takes one there, that's fine too. Munch knows best.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:34 AM    (permalink
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Ok Mighty I figured I'd do another w/o Brooks, and with some other guys I like, some may be thought of as slight reaches.

1. Courtney Upshaw - DE
I'd prefer Ingram, but Upshaw seems more likely to be at 20. He wasn't always asked to rush upfield, but he made lots of plays in the backfield regardless.

2. Jamell Fleming - CB
Could be the Nickle guy day one. Could find a role as starting S in the future if he doesn't earn outside CB spot. Very productive even if he's a tweener.

3. Josh LeRibeus - OG
Good size, strength, and athleticism we need on the interior.

4. Derek Wolfe - DT
Seems like Rein Long, but maybe a bit more athletic and also super productive. He and Klug could be a tough tandem as inside pass rushers.

5. Marvin McNutt - WR
Big WR with good production and big plays. May fit into the offense a lot like Kenny Britt.

6. Miles Burris - OLB
He was used in college like Ayers, traditional 4-3 OLB at times, pass rusher from different spots at others. He could be the perfect backup and maybe future Witherspoon replacement. With guys like him, Jerry Grey could do more unique packages.

7. Travian Robertson - DT
Marks and Smith were disappointing DT's. Another DT with good size and production from the SEC is worth throwing into the mix.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:17 AM    (permalink
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I think my ideal would be...

1st Round: Devon Still, DT, Penn St./Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan St.

Obviously, if Fletcher Cox is here, take him, but it looks like it'll be Still or Worthy with an outside shot at Brockers, who isn't as much of a pass-rusher at this point. I just feel getting a DT who can collapse the pocket will improve the inside and outside pass-rush, where as getting Nick Perry will improve just the outside. Klug would stay fresh which puts him at his best too. Plus, if the QB can't step up in the pocket, that helps Babs and Griff immensely. When Haynesworth was here getting in everybody's face, Griff and Hope were one of the best safety duos in the NFL. Plus, I think a pass-rushing DT would benefit who we have at DE. Wimbley is an outside pass-rusher, so pushing the QB backwards will lead him right in the path of Wimbley. If the QB tries to step laterally, then that leads him to Morgan who likes to go inside and contain.

2nd Round: Chandler Jones, DE, Syracuse

Love him. Want him. I'd trade up for him. He may not have the stats that guys like Branch and Curry have, but I think he may be becoming my draft crush. Dude has 35 1/2 inch arms. 35 1/2 INCH ARMS! Dude's built with a frame like JJ, except he can bend off the edge. He could be a good 3-4 OLB too with the way he plays in space. He isn't the most explosive, but he may not require it since having long arms is such a big advantage for DE's. He'll be able to keep blockers farther away from him, which will allow a ton of opportunities to bat passes down.

3rd Round: Chase Minnifield, CB, Virginia

Great zone CB who can come in and play NB right away. Measurable aren't that great, but I think he's still a pretty safe pick to bolster the secondary.

4th Round: Ben Jones, C, Georgia/Michael Brewster, C, Ohio St.

Both battle hardened and starters for a long time. Jones could already be gone here, being widely believed to be the #2 C in the draft, but while his floor is very high and should contend for a starting job quick, his upside in zilch and he's unathletic, so maybe that drops him. But you can't argue with performance, and locking down SEC DT's is impressive no matter what and he's technically sound. Brewster never fully lived up to his hype, but he'll go around this time. A bit more athletic than Jones, and will probably be more mobile towards the second level. Not sure either one is equipped to play Guard, since pulling and getting up field aren't their best traits (and that worries me since they'll need to do that with CJ), but they're quick off the snap and can create a wall quicker than Amano is able to.

5th Round: Jake Bequette, DE, Arkansas/Malik Jackson, DE, Tennessee

Two big DE's that made plays for the lackluster defenses all year. Bequette really has no bend at all, and if he tries to beat his man outside, he just gets pushed down from being off balance. He's better at power-rushes and mauling his way to the QB. Jackson is more athletic, but could be gone by this time. Played predominantly at DT, so it's hard to get a feel for him at DE, and you have to assume he'll be more raw. One of the few bright spots on the Vols last season, and made the All-SEC team despite having little to no help.

6th Round: BPA

7th Round: BPA
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Not bad Bobo, personally I'm not a big fan of Upshaw, but thats mostly because I dont see alot on film that translates to our defense. If the coaches do and in workouts saw it, i'd be fine with that selection.

Also I really feel like we'll be drafting 2 DB's. Idk why, just seems like we have a habit of drafting positions in twos
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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I like it TitanHope, I think Jackson will likely be gone by that selection though. I'm really hoping we trade back 10-15 picks, there should still be either still or Worthy available and we'd pick up another 3rd
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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The Upshaw pick is tough. I think our DE choices with our current round two pick could be slim, so this was kind of forcing a DE at 20 (the trade down idea is solid though in this case...). Upshaw is kinda like Dareus the year before. Many times you see the Bama defenders in this slow, read and react type D where they wait for the action to come to them. Even though our coordinator and D-line coach changed, our guys still seemed aggressive last year, at least more so than what you see from the Bama guys. But occasionally the Bama guys are let loose and that's where I saw Dareus dominate and Upshaw too though not as much as Dareus.

Upshaw is not a tremendous athlete (neither was Morgan), but I'm not sure there is one at 20. Yeah Perry would be that guy according to workout #'s, but his film and stats don't reflect that. Worth #20?

Branch shows elite pass rush skills at times, then gets mauled in the run game too much. All in all I like him, just apprehensive about being worth that 20 spot. Curry looks like less of an edge rusher than Branch, but more physical. Again, worth #20? Same for Mercilus.

Chandler is rising and I like what I've seen, but again I'm not sure he's worth 20. Maybe even Shea McClellin makes it into the mix.

So after careful analysis...we should trade down lol. The trade down arguement could be applied to DT's as well.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Titanhope, that draft would make me happy. Addresses the main needs, and I like what I've seen from all those guys (haven't seen the CB). Go ahead and throw in Miles Burris and Travian Robertson for 6 and 7 and we win the 2012 NFL Draft :D
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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The Upshaw pick is tough. I think our DE choices with our current round two pick could be slim, so this was kind of forcing a DE at 20 (the trade down idea is solid though in this case...). Upshaw is kinda like Dareus the year before. Many times you see the Bama defenders in this slow, read and react type D where they wait for the action to come to them. Even though our coordinator and D-line coach changed, our guys still seemed aggressive last year, at least more so than what you see from the Bama guys. But occasionally the Bama guys are let loose and that's where I saw Dareus dominate and Upshaw too though not as much as Dareus.

Upshaw is not a tremendous athlete (neither was Morgan), but I'm not sure there is one at 20. Yeah Perry would be that guy according to workout #'s, but his film and stats don't reflect that. Worth #20?

Branch shows elite pass rush skills at times, then gets mauled in the run game too much. All in all I like him, just apprehensive about being worth that 20 spot. Curry looks like less of an edge rusher than Branch, but more physical. Again, worth #20? Same for Mercilus.

Chandler is rising and I like what I've seen, but again I'm not sure he's worth 20. Maybe even Shea McClellin makes it into the mix.

So after careful analysis...we should trade down lol. The trade down arguement could be applied to DT's as well.
I agree, to me there just doesn't seem to be a DE worthy of that #20 selection. The Titans did good with signing Wimbley, he and Morgan will make a respectable starting tandem. We really need depth, do you take depth at #20 overall? D-Line and DB are the two positions I think you can afford to do that.

Depending on what sites you use, guys like Curry, Cam Johnson, Chandler Jones could all be there at #52, I'd put money on 1 if not 2 of them being there.

Personally, I'd rather spend a 3rd on Malik Jackson than a 2nd on Chandler Jones. I think Maliks already the better player
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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We have brought in Jeffery, Floyd,Hill and Wright so far do you think we might draft a WR in the 1st?
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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We have brought in Jeffery, Floyd,Hill and Wright so far do you think we might draft a WR in the 1st?
I really hope not, maybe it's a smokescreen to get someone to jump ahead of us to take one and then a player we like will fall to us. Or perhaps we like Jeffrey in round 2?

I also see we had Ingram, Upshaw and McClellan in for visits.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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I hope we don't draft a WR in the first, I don't know if we can afford that luxury.

Here's another mock based on a trade down scenario that gives us two of the top d-lineman.

1. Trade down enough to get a 3rd rounder and pick Whitney Mercilus - DE
Helps with anemic pass rush. Can also rush from the inside.

2. Trade our 2nd and acquired 3rd to move up and get Kendell Reyes - DT
Can help with much needed interior push and solid holding his ground vs the run.

3. Mitchell Shwartz - OG/OT
Good call MightyTitan.

4. Nigel Bradham - OLB
All around solid player. Possible successor to Witherspoon.

5. Leonard Johnson - CB
Like Verner, doesn't show great timed speed, but just plays well. Should fight for NB spot and has returner skills.

6. TY Hilton - WR
Speedy, shifty WR who has return skills.

7. Frank Alexander - DE
Big DE who has played outside and inside and had very good production. Seems to play faster than timed speed.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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I like that one Bobo, although I'd prefer to keep the extra pick and use it to grab one of the solid 3rd round values in the draft.

I like Leonard Johnson too, he played very well this past season and kept Blackmon in check when they played Ok state.

I think Schwartz would be a wise selection as he can play at G right away, and possibly slide out to tackle in a few years
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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I hope we don't draft a WR in the first, I don't know if we can afford that luxury.
I agree, although In 5 years it might be nice to have Locker throwing it to Britt and #20 overall WR, but right now it wouldn't help out team much. And I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that there's just as much of a success rate with 2nd and 3rd round WR's as their is 1st.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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Now that we have Wimbley to hopefully help out our outside rush, I'll be happy if we come out of this draft with a true starting caliber DT to put next to Casey. Worthy, Brockers, Cox (wishful thinking), Still .. I like em all for the most part. Plus like you guys said, you can never have enough good DL.

I just can't get excited about the thought of drafting a WR or CB in the 1st. Not that I think either is a stretch or unlikely, I'm just not in love with the idea.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I like that one Bobo, although I'd prefer to keep the extra pick and use it to grab one of the solid 3rd round values in the draft.

I like Leonard Johnson too, he played very well this past season and kept Blackmon in check when they played Ok state.

I think Schwartz would be a wise selection as he can play at G right away, and possibly slide out to tackle in a few years
I thought about keeping that 3rd rounder. In all honesty, I'm just a bit concerned about how much Wimbly will help and how much Morgan will step up. And we don't have much depth behind that. And like Pitbull said, you can never have enough DL, I feel we have to still go after a DE or two. I'm leaning towards Mercilus and Branch being the best as far as pass rush that we may get after a trade down, just doubt they'd be there at 52.

Shwartz looked good on a vid I saw, powerful and a bit like Stewart. Looks to have versatility to play more than one spot too. Also read good things about him.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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I think Wimbley will improve the 3rd down rush, I am a bit concerned with him on earlier downs. That's why I think a guy like Vinny Curry and Malik Jackson may be the best option for us, both are solid against the run with room to improve as pass rushers, but are still decent coming out of college
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000...ke-mayock-says

Mayock has some very interesting insight on DE's and mentions us a few times.

Ive seen a few mocks showing Coples slipping all the way to us...but you wonder is that a good thing?
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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To see that Mayock says Coples isn't even draftable is outrageous. You can knock him by saying his tape wasn't very good his senior year but to say undraftable is laughable.

Rumors are teams are really moving him down boards, but I think he's got the talent to take him at #20.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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He may have mis-spoke on the undraftable part. He said something like if he was a GM he'd not take him until maybe the 3rd round and he said he was #50 on his top 100.

I just watched some film of him, and he doesn't look sudden or quick much. I saw some nice plays made with power, and plays at DT. Kinda reminds me of Antwan Odom in his movement. His workout #'s aren't that good, but neither were Pierre-Pauls. Not sure what to think on him.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Coples reminds me a lot of Kevin Carter, he isn't explosive off the snap but he is a very powerful man that can play DT as well.

If Coples is there, I'd be disappointed if we passed on him unless someone with better value is there.

Wimbley, Klug, Coples, Morgan would be a pretty good 3rd down rush if you ask me.

Coples was horrible when he played against the spread, but when he played against more pro offensive teams where he could line up and go he played well in my opinion. He also got chipped and doubled alot from what I saw
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