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Old 05-12-2007, 03:48 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Default Mr. Stillers AFC North Preview (Or Review)

AFC North:



Best Off-Season Move:
To be honest it's been a quiet division. You could on one hand saying that Ravens getting former 1st round Pick Willis McGahee. Though, as a Steelers fan, I fear McGahee less than Lewis. On the other, you have Steinbach and Lewis going to Cleveland. Though, Cleveland paid out the ass for a barely above average guard, and Lewis hasn't been the same since he set the record. Though even with Clevelands sub-par line, he still bothers me. I could also add in Peek, as I think he'll be a solid 3-4 OLB for Cleveland. To play Homer, I would have to say adding Barlow to Pittsburgh was perfect, he fills the only need we didn't draft for.
Wost Offseason Move:

Many will say that AFC Norths worst offseason fiasco was us losing a coach that didn't have his heart in the game, losing an overpaid OLB. Now, I understand Tomlin is new, but I think there's more things going on here.

1) Letting Jamal Lewis go, and trading for Willis McGahee - Willis has yet to play a full 16 game season, and with the Ravens adding up their talent to make a run at another title, having your best running back on IR for the post-season is not the way to handle it.

2) I've seen the fact we cut Porter was a big offseason no-no. Was that worse than losing Adalius Thomas? Baltimore lost Adalius, Pashos, Mulitalo, and Lewis from their starting lineup.. we lost.. Porter

3) Cleveland Overpaying FA. They do it every year I know, but they gave an ungodly amount for a G. Faneca wasn't even making that much and they're paying him how much more than Hutchinson?

4) How quickly this is forgotten. The Browns traded Reuben Droughns.. a proven power rusher, for Tim Carter... a guy with 2 seasons with 1200 plus yards that can run in those wintry conditions for a guy that has played 1 full 16 game season in 6 years and has only eclipsed 300 yards receiving.. once. This was a horrid trade.. the Giants robbed the Browns
Best Draft: This is difficult, I will say that unbiasedly it's between Pittsburgh and Baltimore.
Cleveland: C
Adding Brady Quinn and Joe Thomas in early rounds will help them in the future, but that doesn't guarantee 2007 NFL success. Adding Eric Wright will finally give them a #2 opposite of Leigh Bodden. Here's the negatives. They added the oft-injured Melila Purcell and the underwhelming Chase Pittman in later rounds. In a 3-4 defense, even though your LB's get the credit, your DL is just as important, and frankly, they failed to upgrade. They're putting a lot of hope on some late rounders and unproven UFA's. If they don't come through, the Offensive Line of other teams is going to have lanes big enough for Reagan Mauia to put up 300 yards.
Cincinnati: D
I know it's early to be grading draft classes but, other than Leon Hall, Cincy did nothing to help themselves. I mean this was a bad draft in my eyes:

Leon Hall: Good pick, best value at CB, they need a Starting Caliber corner across from Jon Joseph.

Kenny Irons: WTF? They have a solid 1-2 punch with Johnson/Perry and Watson was a solid situational back. Adding Kenny Irons, though of Value, is having too much bank-roll in one position. Could of added Turk McBride, Tim Crowder, Ikaika Alama Francis, who all could have taken over for Justin Smith.

Marvin White: Again, Great Value, but they already have (as much as I hate to say it) and underrated and budding star in Madieu Williams. If he moves to SS, that I can understand, and I figure thats what he'll do, but frankly, Their front 7, IMO is in Shambles, and with Henry being out the first 8 games, it's going to be hard relying on Palmer to single-handedly play them into the playoffs.

Jeff Rowe: I had Rowe as a 6th to UDFA type and while solid, he could have possibly been had later, again, with their front 7 and #3 WR having large holes, a backup QB shouldn't have been priority.

Matt Toeaina: Great pick as a UT.

Dan Santucci: If he plays to potential solid pick, though he was, IMO one of the biggest weaknesses on that Notre Dame OL.

Nedu Ndukwe: You have Ethan Kilmer, Madieu Wiliams, Marvin White, pick a LB for christ sakes.
Baltimore: B
Though not a Sexy draft, they did the same Pittsburgh did and filled needs:

Grubbs: though they lost Staley, they got the best G in the draft and I think he'll contribute at RG early.

Yamon Figurs: I don't know, but I'll label this as due to "The Devin Hester Effect". As that WR run in the 3rd round I call "Marques Colston Effect". He's a solid returner and solid gunner, but he has a frail frame, and I think he was at best a late 4th rounder.

Yanda: Solid RT Pick to replace Pashos.

Antwan Barnes: I wanted him as a OLB, as I believe they do, but I don't think he'll live up to the Adalius Thomas standard. He'll be solid in spot duty IMO. Youth in that aging defense.

Le'Ron McClain: The best FB in the Draft. This I think is the pick that bothers me most, though, I hope he's not too slow for McGahee.

Troy Smith: Good pick vs value and need Could develop behind McNair.

Prescott Burgess: Solid pick this late, could play Inside or out.. SLB/ILB. I like him as a flex guy for they're hybrid defense.
Pittsburgh: B+

They went into the draft with too much age at LB.. they drafted 2 solid players early. Timmons gives us the 3-4 / 4-3 switch ability. Woodley has played in the Pittsburgh 3-4 (Michigan based their 3-4 on Pittsburghs defense and Woodley played LOLB in that 3-4 which is what he'll be playing here.

We wanted a 2nd TE that can block to let Heath Miller catch some balls.. and to get rid of Tuman. Sure people say we need a powerback.. we didn't like Hunts speed and we opted for a more proven guy.

Our biggest mishaps last year (Besides Ben) were on ST. We had upwards of 15 ST Turnovers, whether Punt/Kick Returns.. we added Sepulveda, which should eliminate 90% of the good field positions we gave teams last year.

Adding McBean was icing as he'll take over for Rodney Bailey and we have a great pass rusher that can play UT or 34DE.

William ***, everyone thought we needed a CB, we got a 4 year starter and though he doesn't blaze a 4.3, he is smart and knows where and how to play zones. He'll be a cerebral assassin on our defense, because he can diagnose plays quickly, blitz and I think he's underrated.

Dallas Baker, falls to round 7, has tremendous size and was a solid 7th round pickup. I don't know if he'll crack the 53 man, but if he does, he'll be an excellent red zone threat.
Most Important Player:
This is tough.. It's between IMO Ben Roethlisberger and Steve McNair. If Ben regains his rookie and Soph year form and grows, he could go back as a top 5 QB in rating, and be a leader... on the other hand, if McNair stays healthy, he has a solid team to ride to a ring.
Most Improved Player: This can be a # of players in the AFC North...

Baltimore: Samari Rolle, Steve McNair, Dawan Landry
Cincy: Jon Joseph, Dominick Peko, Madieu Williams
Cleveland: Anyone not named; Jones, Bodden, or Wimbley
Pittsburgh: Ben, Holmes, An. Smith, Troy Polamalu

Hot Seat: I'm going with Frye, Crennel and Marvin Lewis

Division Rankings:
Baltimore (Because they haven't had the coaching change) 11-5
Pittsburgh: 10-6
Cincy: 6-10
Cle: 3-13
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Old 05-12-2007, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Nice work, but wow, that is a lot of homerism.

Sure, Barlow fills a role that we need nicely, but is getting a backup running back bigger than McGahee or Steinbach?

And I have to disagree strongly with Big Ben being Most Important Player. Even at full strength, he's still just a good quarterback with a lot of talent around him. I'd put Carson Palmer as just enough, followed by McNair, Chad Johnson, Ed Reed, Hines Ward, and Troy Polamalu.
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Old 05-13-2007, 12:07 AM    (permalink
mikehop05
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yeah i agree with a lot of what you said, even with the homerism

im thinking ben is more important than any other player, yes

but i think carson is more important to his team, respectively

also id give cleveland a A/C, depending on how they pan out

so B overall
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:44 PM    (permalink
Shere Khan
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Quote:
as a Steelers fan, I fear McGahee less than Lewis. On the other, you have Steinbach and Lewis going to Cleveland. Though, Cleveland paid out the ass for a barely above average guard
lol @ Steinbach being a barely above average guard.
On the fast track to losing credibility in the first paragraph.

You fear Jamal Lewis more than Willis McGahee?
Wow man, you're off to a blazing start.
Jamal Lewis > Kevan Barlow.



Quote:
1) Letting Jamal Lewis go, and trading for Willis McGahee - Willis has yet to play a full 16 game season, and with the Ravens adding up their talent to make a run at another title, having your best running back on IR for the post-season is not the way to handle it.
I believe the Ravens also have Mike Anderson.
The Browns are the only team that probably won't utilize a two-headed rushing attack, at least not as much as the other teams, and CERTAINLY not as much as the Bengals will this year. Get familiar with yet another Auburn RB.



Quote:
2) I've seen the fact we cut Porter was a big offseason no-no. Was that worse than losing Adalius Thomas? Baltimore lost Adalius, Pashos, Mulitalo, and Lewis from their starting lineup.. we lost.. Porter
Ok, you've made a vaild point here


Quote:
3) Cleveland Overpaying FA. They do it every year I know, but they gave an ungodly amount for a G. Faneca wasn't even making that much and they're paying him how much more than Hutchinson?
Faneca gonna get his though. He'll probably get more than them both.


Quote:
4) How quickly this is forgotten. The Browns traded Reuben Droughns.. a proven power rusher, for Tim Carter... a guy with 2 seasons with 1200 plus yards that can run in those wintry conditions for a guy that has played 1 full 16 game season in 6 years and has only eclipsed 300 yards receiving.. once. This was a horrid trade.. the Giants robbed the Browns
Droughns wasn't getting it done in Cleveland. It's as simple as that.
They moved on. Carter might be healthy for once this year and contribute.
Besides Edwards and Joe, the Browns don't really have anyone, except for that Oklahoma WR, Travis something. Plus, they got rid of Northcutt.
[/indent]
Quote:
Best Draft: This is difficult, I will say that unbiasedly it's between Pittsburgh and Baltimore.
Nah, B. Yall traded UP to get a punter. I dunno how that gets you the best draft.

Quote:
Cincinnati: D
I know it's early to be grading draft classes but, other than Leon Hall, Cincy did nothing to help themselves. I mean this was a bad draft in my eyes:

Leon Hall: Good pick, best value at CB, they need a Starting Caliber corner across from Jon Joseph.

Kenny Irons: WTF? They have a solid 1-2 punch with Johnson/Perry and Watson was a solid situational back. Adding Kenny Irons, though of Value, is having too much bank-roll in one position. Could of added Turk McBride, Tim Crowder, Ikaika Alama Francis, who all could have taken over for Justin Smith.

We couldn't afford to depend on Perry anymore, particularly at the beginning of the season. Watson has impressed me in the limited touches he gets, but he's not the solution. Besides, the higher-ranked Def. players were off the board by then. At first, I scoffed at the pick, but then I realized it's probably the best move we could've made at that point. If something happened to Rudi, our workhorse, we would be in trouble. Now we can have our dual-headed Auburn rushing attack.

Marvin White: Again, Great Value, but they already have (as much as I hate to say it) and underrated and budding star in Madieu Williams. If he moves to SS, that I can understand, and I figure thats what he'll do, but frankly, Their front 7, IMO is in Shambles, and with Henry being out the first 8 games, it's going to be hard relying on Palmer to single-handedly play them into the playoffs.

Dexter Jackson isn't gonna play forever, and he rubbed the staff the wrong way last year. We also let KK go in the off-season. I don't see what was wrong with grabbing White here. If anything, our WR doesn't need to be addressed. Tab Perry should be healthy (I know you know that guy, lol) and he and Chatman will contribute for the 3rd WR capacity.

Jeff Rowe: I had Rowe as a 6th to UDFA type and while solid, he could have possibly been had later, again, with their front 7 and #3 WR having large holes, a backup QB shouldn't have been priority.

eh....I disagree. I knew we were gonna get a QB this draft. We've done the QB carousel thing for a few years now. Get a guy, develop him, and who knows? Maybe we can parlay that into a extra draft pick down the road.

Matt Toeaina: Great pick as a UT.

He's also Peko's best friend. :)
Dan Santucci: If he plays to potential solid pick, though he was, IMO one of the biggest weaknesses on that Notre Dame OL.

Hmmm......

Nedu Ndukwe: You have Ethan Kilmer, Madieu Wiliams, Marvin White, pick a LB for christ sakes.
What, you mean like Earl Everett? Matt Muncy? Ed Hartwell?

We have FAR too many LB"s on the roster right now as it is.
We don't know what the future holds for O'Dell either.
Ahmad Brooks will suprise people this year, as Naruto likes to say:

"BELIEVE IT!"

Quote:
Hot Seat: I'm going with Frye, Crennel and Marvin Lewis
I can't see Coach Lewis being in the hot seat at all.


Division Rankings:
Baltimore (Because they haven't had the coaching change) 11-5
Pittsburgh: 10-6
Cincy: 6-10
Cle: 3-13[/quote]

The six and ten prediction just made me lose all respect for you (not that I had much for a Steeler to begin with).
If anything, that horrible season last year will still be on their minds.
They'll play a LOT harder this year. You can take that to the bank.
Plus, they blew three games at the end of the year. Win ANY one of those games, and we're playoff bound.
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Old 05-13-2007, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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shere your comments were pointless and you privded nothing to really back up your opinions

and how was giving up a 6th roundr for a punter, which we desparetley needed, make it a bad draft for us

you hear that, B?
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Old 05-13-2007, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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well, I'm not a stat digger, if that's what you're talking about.

I'm not sure how my comments are viewed as pointless.
Mr. Stiller sure didn't provide any evidence to support his opinion either.
He just says Steinbach is ass, basically and moves on to bash other players and teams. Where was the objectivity? Facts?


There's a huge discussion on that very same Punter topic on a Bengals forum.
I really don't feel like going into that right now.
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Old 05-13-2007, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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So are you a Bengals and Browns fan?

Just get off our boards, if we're gonna have opposing teams' fans on here we want them to be somewhat intelligent or in the very least literate, neither of which you seem to be.
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Old 05-13-2007, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Steelers4Life View Post
Nice work, but wow, that is a lot of homerism.

Sure, Barlow fills a role that we need nicely, but is getting a backup running back bigger than McGahee or Steinbach?

And I have to disagree strongly with Big Ben being Most Important Player. Even at full strength, he's still just a good quarterback with a lot of talent around him. I'd put Carson Palmer as just enough, followed by McNair, Chad Johnson, Ed Reed, Hines Ward, and Troy Polamalu.
Homerism? Did I say Barlow was the best move? I just pointed out a lot of moves by all the teams. Barlow was our best offseason move.. why? Because it was a need we didn't address in the draft and he's solid as a #3 and Short Yardage. I mentioned EVERY TEAM.. and said for Pittsburgh he was our best addition, I don't feel very highly of McGahee, and Steinbach was way overpayed.. $$ vs. Production made it a bad move.

Perhaps you see it as homerism.. Naming Ben the divisions most important player. I'll divulge why:

How many games did Ben single handedly lose last season? Say 3-4? Jacksonville(I think he was rushed back, but he did play a solid part in losing it), The first Cincy Game(3 sacks and 3 INTs), San Diego(5 sacks, 2 INT's), Oakland? Now think about it. Ben threw 11 INT's in those 4 games alone... which was equal to his Rookie Season. Ben comes back, plays at the high level he did the first two seasons, it could very well be Pittsburghs division to lose again. If Ben Plays Horrid, we have to rely on Willie Parker and Defense, which our defense is inexperienced or old for the most part and Parker hopefully doesn't need more than 260-280 Carries.

Now I'm not trying to take any thunder away From Carson, but he's a damn great QB, and regardless of the year, Until he has a very ****** season, he's not going to be considered a difference maker. He's always very accurate, he's a leader, he's intelligent, but his play is always top notch... If he had Bens type of season last year, I'd be slotting him as the player.

Chad Johnson could be valid as he started off slow, but he still led the league by years end.

Troy Polamalu, though one of the best in the business isn't going to define a division unless he has about 5-7 QB Sacks, 5-10 Picks, a ton of passes defended and he knocks out a few players.

Odds are the division is going to hinge on a RB, or QB. Carson Palmer is always bringing his A Game so, this season is likely not to be anything different, therefore negating the fact he is the most important player. Unless I'm misunderstanding the most important player. If it's the MVP, give it to Carson, Ward, Johnson, Parker or Reed. I was under the impression it was, who's play this season could define the division... To me Carson has nothing to prove and will play "A" Game all season as he always does, Ben threw 23 INT's last year, although his sack #'s showed OL Weakness he held on to the ball to long a lot. If he plays a lot better, he's 1 player that could change the division.. He plays better this season.. could be the difference between 8-8 and 12-4.

If that doesn't clarify it better, Let me know, I'll try harder.


And to say Ben at full strength is just an average QB with good talent is bad, especially from a Steelers fan. Do you realize what "Talent" he had in 2005 to lead us to 15-1? A lot of the guys are either not in the league, or the teams they went to are trying desperately to upgrade. Oliver Ross, Keydrick Vincent, Duce Staley, Heath Miller was a rookie... Don't forget that Casey Hampton went out for the season as well.

He was top 5 his rookie year in QB rating and Top 3 last year only behind Carson and Peyton.. I think with last season being his sophmore slump he'll pick it up and he has the arm, and talent, just needs to put the studying in.
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Old 05-13-2007, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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lol @ Steinbach being a barely above average guard.
On the fast track to losing credibility in the first paragraph.


There's really no way to measure OL Talent other than Pro-bowl... frankly, he hasn't been to one, and if he was more than above average, I'd think he'd still be a Bengal. He's solid and Versatile, but he's not worth more than Hutchinson or Faneca, and therefore he's an above average Guard, considering what they paid.


You fear Jamal Lewis more than Willis McGahee?
Wow man, you're off to a blazing start.
Jamal Lewis > Kevan Barlow.

Where and when did I ever say Jamal Lewis < Kevan Barlow? Maybe read and understand... I no way in hell endorsed us as having the best offseason addition wise.. I merely mentioned our best addition. If by namesake, it was the browns, I don't think McGahee will be able to run the rock as hard or as often as Jamal Lewis did, and he's not the punishing runner type.


I believe the Ravens also have Mike Anderson.
The Browns are the only team that probably won't utilize a two-headed rushing attack, at least not as much as the other teams, and CERTAINLY not as much as the Bengals will this year. Get familiar with yet another Auburn RB.


Yes, the Ravens do have Mike Anderson who was utilized only 39 times last year which averages to roughly 2.5 Carries a game... Willis' backup A-Train had 107 Carries, including the games he had to start due to Willis' injuries.. That averages to about 7 carries a game. Frankly, Willis IMO at best can Carry the rock 275-290 times a season, because he's always getting injured, but when I actually see him run with some power, I'll be worried, because he tries to dance too much.. now Jamal Lewis did that later in his career, but he still hit people. Another Auburn RB.. because they need 3 RB's? I mean you had Johnson/Perry who were IMO an underrated and young 1-2 punch, Watson who was solid when called upon, did you really need to draft a 2nd round RB? Unless there's something I'm unaware of (Career-ending injury/Trade/Arrest) I don't see why you need another RB, especially a 2nd rounder, where you can find a starter unless your getting rid of Rudi.

Ok, you've made a vaild point here



Faneca gonna get his though. He'll probably get more than them both.

He will, but Only because Cleveland and Buffalo inflated the market by overpaying above average Guards to extreme contracts. When 2 guys who haven't seen a Pro-bowl, are getting paid more than the 2 best at the position, is it really a great deal. I believe Alan is asking 24 over 3 years with 19 Guaranteed. Don't quote me, thats just what I've heard.


Droughns wasn't getting it done in Cleveland. It's as simple as that.
They moved on. Carter might be healthy for once this year and contribute.
Besides Edwards and Joe, the Browns don't really have anyone, except for that Oklahoma WR, Travis something. Plus, they got rid of Northcutt.
[/indent]
Here's the deal about that though, even though he wasn't getting it done, he wasn't overly expensive.. I mean hell, NYG can afford him as a Second RB, Cleveland should be able to. He's certainly a better backup to Jamal Lewis than Jerome Harrison. Droughns wasn't getting it done as the main man, but frankly, it wasn't like his Oline was great, and he didn't have a legitimate passing game to take any weight off his shoulders.. Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson, had some decent performances, but Braylon disappears or makes bonehead plays, they don't have any other threats. They have Wilson, who hasn't proven anything, Jurevicious who in his 10th year can only start to go downhill. To me, Droughns, a solid Runningback, he averaged 3.9 Yards a carry over his career, is certainly better than a receiver that in 6 seasons hasn't had enough receiving yardage to crack 1000 yards, and at best averages 8-9 games of participation a year due to injury. I don't care how you cut it, Cleveland got fleeced.

Nah, B. Yall traded UP to get a punter. I dunno how that gets you the best draft.

We traded up and filled a serious need. Until this class is on the field for 3-5 years you can't honestly sit here and say who the best draft was, you can only look at what a teams needs were, who they drafted and that players "Value". We traded up to get a Punter in round 4, who was valued as a 4th round pick and we need a kicker. We were in the last 3 in every punting category last year, we drafted a 10-15 year starter, who is a two-time Ray Guy award winner. If you say our draft class wasn't the best just because we traded up for a punter, you must not understand how vital ST and "Hidden Yardage" is.

What, you mean like Earl Everett? Matt Muncy? Ed Hartwell?

We have FAR too many LB"s on the roster right now as it is.
We don't know what the future holds for O'Dell either.
Ahmad Brooks will suprise people this year, as Naruto likes to say:

"BELIEVE IT!"


Ed Hartwell was good in his prime, but he's on the downfall due to injuries, he's played a total of 13 games in the combined last 2 seasons. Now if he comes back and plays 15-16 games, congrats, but I don't know if he got over the injury bug. As for Everett and Muncy.. there was a reason they weren't drafted. I like Muncy and think he can be solid, but frankly, Other than Johnson/Brooks, the LB corps could be in shambles. If either gets hit with the injury bug, you're going to be hurting big time. I don't know what O'Dells future is either, but frankly, if Pacman is gone for the year, I don't have much hope for Odell, sitting out a whole year can be detrimental and Marv wasn't too fond of him after the second arrest. My other point was, your front needs some young depth, you added Toeaina, but nothing else... Your starting and backup LDT's have a total of 24 Years Service, not to mention adding Thorton, you're getting a little long in the Tooth at DT.

Bryan Robinson also has 11 years and I don't know if Geathers can stand up against the run well enough to be an every down DE other than just a Pass rushing specialist... Jon Fanene doesn't have much experience either.


I can't see Coach Lewis being in the hot seat at all.

After all the arrests it's hard to say, some of the players he wanted REALLY tarnished the face of the franchise.. It's got to be unsettling for a GM/Front Office to keep employing a coach that in one season had 9 arrests.. I'm not even trying to be a Steeler prick here. It's bad enough for 1 arrest, but 9 different guys being arrested, that really has to make the front office wonder how well the coach is keeping his players in line. If the Bengals act doesn't clean up (Chris Henry, Jon Joseph, and so on), he could very well be gone. There's plenty of good coaches out there, it's not like Marvin is the only hope.

Division Rankings:
Baltimore (Because they haven't had the coaching change) 11-5
Pittsburgh: 10-6
Cincy: 6-10
Cle: 3-13[/quote]

The six and ten prediction just made me lose all respect for you (not that I had much for a Steeler to begin with).
If anything, that horrible season last year will still be on their minds.
They'll play a LOT harder this year. You can take that to the bank.
Plus, they blew three games at the end of the year. Win ANY one of those games, and we're playoff bound.


But THEY DID BLOW THEM. You can't complain to me on hypotheticals. Do you want me to sit here and say.. if Ben didn't throw 23 Interceptions and get sacked "X" amount of Times we would've been undefeated and had our 6th ring. I'm tempted to put you guys at 8-8. Why? Because you still have Carson Palmer, but you didn't add a Receiving threat at TE, and because Chris Henry who is one of the hardest guys to defend (Because he's in 3 WR sets with Housh and CJ), he's out 8 games... and since you think Eric Steinbach is really good, you did nothing to replace him. I like Whitworth, but I don't know if he's going to be the answer, and even so, there's little if any depth, any injuries and your line is screwed. I also don't think your draft answered a lot of question marks. You have a great trio of RB's, 4 if you say Watson is solid(Which I do), but you can't put 4 RB's on the field at the same time (Or it really isn't used), but with Henry suspended, your #3 WR is Reggie McNeal, who I really liked as a ARE type, blazing speed, powerful for his size.. but he already has character concerns. If you guys add a FA WR I'd be more inclined to give you better than 6-10, but with your WR depth Chart, I don't think Palmer is going to have much to work with. Everyone has to respect Housh, CJ.. but if teams can stifle your run game (which Rudi Johnson was held under 100 yards 11/16 games last year basically 70% of games he doesn't crack 100 yards) and they have a decent secondary, it's going to be hard for Palmer. Reggie Kelley isn't really a Threat, and like I said.. your starting WR chart is:

Chad Johnson -> TJ Houshmanzadeh -> Reggie McNeal -> Glen Holt -> Skyler Green.

Chris Henry is 10x the player and receiver than McNeal, Holt and Green combined. If you guys don't make the playoffs this year, it's likely going to be because his absence. Unless McNeal really comes on strong, It doesn't look good.

My issue with your analysis of my analysis, is the parts you really try to hammer me with, you're throwing out hypotheticals. Of course the Bengals are going to play harder after last year.. so are the Steelers and Ravens. I feel that losing Henry is going to hurt the Bengals, and I apologize if you don't like my opinions, form your own, but if your going to complain about my analysis, use facts, not Hypotheticals, and don't put words in my mouth... I never said Barlow is better than Jamal Lewis
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well, I'm not a stat digger, if that's what you're talking about.

I'm not sure how my comments are viewed as pointless.

I don't think they were pointless, but I put more effort and though process in mine. I stated the reasoning why I felt one way or the other. You basically said. Oh he thinks Kevan Barlow > Jamal Lewis HAHAHA... if you would've read it.. I said for us, it was a great move BECAUSE he's what we lacked.. not that it was the best.

Mr. Stiller sure didn't provide any evidence to support his opinion either.

I just did, I provided my opinion, which was challenged, and I provided many facts and reasoning behind it.

He just says Steinbach is ass,

I said he was barely above average. He's solid, nothing fantastic.. I wouldn't have done cartwheels if we got him.. He's solid... not a pro-bowler, not an all-pro, but he left, and got paid more than anyone at that position, paying an above average (read, solid: above average.. not ass).. better than All-pro money is ridiculous and frankly it makes me think less of the player, why? Because he hasn't played to that level. This is a business as well and if your making a player the highest paid at his damn position he better well be either the best or 2nd best, not an above average guy. That instantly tells me that 1) the team isn't worried about their cap in the long run, 2) that the player is obviously getting overpaid and underachieved. TO get more money than Faneca or Hutchinson and never have accomplished 1/10th of what they have? says he's a huge under acheiver ... with roaf retiring, he could possibly be top 10, but I think #12 or #13 is better fitted.

basically and moves on to bash other players and teams.

Bash other players or teams? I didn't bash, I merely pointed things out. If you want to call it bashing fine.. I pointed out that a lack luster browns team with a piss-poor DL did nothing to upgrade it. Chase Pittman and Mel Purcell aren't great players. I could only Imagine what Wimbley would do in Baltimore or Pittsburghs 3-4, Why? Because we have great players in the trenches. I understand that Cleveland needed a CB, but they basically pulled a Washington to get Quinn. They lost picks for next year and to be honest, I don't think they had a great draft. Quinn suffered behind a bad ND OL and he's coming to one of the worst in the NFL. In 09 they may be better with Thomas, Bentley, Frahley, Steinbach, and Shaffer... however right now? No one knows if Thomas will be great, or the next Gallery... Steinbach as a LG isn't going to instantly make the OL top 10.. and there's a lot of work left to do..

I bashed Cleveland because they added a RB in round 2 when they alreayd have 3 solid young RB's, they didn't seem to really upgrade anything. Sure Irons may be the #2 RB and Hall will be a starter.. but outside of that, Marvin White will have to move to SS to even play They upgraded the secondary, but not your front 7, where I thought there was the biggest issues.. I mean you lost Pollack, Odell, Brian Simmons.. although adding Hartwell was good.. only if he can stay healthy. Brooks and Johnson are solid.. but the other LB spot is up for grabs and your front 4 needs some youth infused.

Baltimore I don't think I bashed. I believe the only thing I had an issue with was them drafting a PR/KR/Gunner in the 3rd round. He was a UDFA until he ran a 4.32. If I could have drafted any other way, I would've had Baltimores draft for Pittsburgh. Which is why I gave them a B, they answered needs, though, I thought they should've tried to replace Adalius a little sooner, Barnes is on the small side, and I think there were some better guys. They could've drafted a guy like Brian Robison who I think would've filled that role better. But either way they had a solid draft.


Where was the objectivity? Facts?

A persons analysis is opinion based on facts. I based my opinion on what I saw, "the Facts".. If I were a homer, I'd have said Pitt was a lock to win the division, Roeth the league MVP, we had the best draft in the entire league. All I stated in our favor really was that we filled our needs. I said it was between us and Baltimore. But if you feel better I'll give it to Baltimore. Just because we drafted a punter... OH SNAP, they drafted one last year.. and he was in the top 10 of all league categories.. damn.

There's a huge discussion on that very same Punter topic on a Bengals forum.
I really don't feel like going into that right now.

On our punter? Why are you guys concentrating on the fact we drafted a punter and not on the fact you only have 2 proven weapons for Palmer to throw the ball to, your aging on defense, and the stricter rules could land half your team out of the league.
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