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Old 03-02-2012, 10:59 AM    (permalink
CDCB14
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I would go after Webb. The CB metrics posted on BTB the other day show that Webb was one of the best CBs in teh league the last couple of years. Even better than Carr. I would give serious consideration to making a play even if they tender him a first rounder. He's better than any CB you would get at 14.
Ehhh, not so fast. I respect Webb, but I wouldn't give up 14. He's turning 27 and how good really is he? He's had a great year, but it's not like he's Darrell Revis out there. Also, how much does playing on the Ravens defense help him? Plus, they are definitely using the 1st and 3rd round tender on him. So no thanks to that. If it was a 2nd then sure, but they won't do that. Every team in the league that needs a CB would put in a claim if it was only a 2nd.

I'm really, really starting to like Fletcher Cox at 14. Or even in a trade down. If DeCastro and Kirkpatrick are off the board at 14, trade down to the mid 20's and pick someone like Konz, Cox, Jenkins, etc. Someone will still be on the board.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:05 AM    (permalink
Macarthur
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Ehhh, not so fast. I respect Webb, but I wouldn't give up 14. He's turning 27 and how good really is he? He's had a great year, but it's not like he's Darrell Revis out there. Also, how much does playing on the Ravens defense help him? Plus, they are definitely using the 1st and 3rd round tender on him. So no thanks to that. If it was a 2nd then sure, but they won't do that. Every team in the league that needs a CB would put in a claim if it was only a 2nd.

I'm really, really starting to like Fletcher Cox at 14. Or even in a trade down. If DeCastro and Kirkpatrick are off the board at 14, trade down to the mid 20's and pick someone like Konz, Cox, Jenkins, etc. Someone will still be on the board.
I would give up 14. I would not give up 14 and a 3rd. I think you are underselling Webb. He's really good; much better than any CB we would get at 14. Again, his metrics have been better than Carr and not just last year.

I agree on Cox. I'm starting to think he would be a great pick - reminds me a bit of Ty Warren.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Grimes just got franchised, so forget him. Good thing too, no thanks to these 5'10'' guys with "spunk." Those guys notoriously just tank after they get their big contract from a new team in free agency. System changes, big receivers, etc. and they just aren't that good. Reason I don't want Finnegan either.

There have been no reports at all on laurent robinson with interest from other teams, and with all the other free agent WRs we may be able to get him back under the radar. We'll see.

EDIT: Wow, just looked up his rotoworld:

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ESPN's John Clayton believes the Cowboys have a "great chance" of re-signing free agent Laurent Robinson.
Dallas' chances are aided by a historically strong receiver market and Robinson's checkered injury history. As a potential one-hit-wonder, it's hard to imagine another team attempting to lure him away with substantial guarantees.
That's funny. Good news I guess, but if it's anything over 4 mill a year it's a bad signing.

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Old 03-02-2012, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Ehhh, not so fast. I respect Webb, but I wouldn't give up 14. He's turning 27 and how good really is he? He's had a great year, but it's not like he's Darrell Revis out there. Also, how much does playing on the Ravens defense help him? Plus, they are definitely using the 1st and 3rd round tender on him. So no thanks to that. If it was a 2nd then sure, but they won't do that. Every team in the league that needs a CB would put in a claim if it was only a 2nd.

I'm really, really starting to like Fletcher Cox at 14. Or even in a trade down. If DeCastro and Kirkpatrick are off the board at 14, trade down to the mid 20's and pick someone like Konz, Cox, Jenkins, etc. Someone will still be on the board.
They did away with the high 1st and 3rd tender.... the highest you can place a player is a 1st. I would pull the trigger if it cost a 2nd... I agree 14 is too high.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/n...er-ilb-farrior

I'd love to have Farrior for depth if he came at a discount price. on a onew year rental of course... 37 is old but I think he could be a good mentor for Bruce Carter.

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Old 03-02-2012, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/n...er-ilb-farrior

I'd love to have Farrior for depth if he came at a discount price. on a onew year rental of course... 37 is old but I think he could be a good mentor for Bruce Carter.
No thanks to the wheel chair crowd
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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No thanks to the wheel chair crowd
Couldn't have said it better myself. Farrior is worse than Brooking and Bradie. Yup, I said it. He has no business playing pro football. Don't let him being a solid steeler for a few years and his reputation fool you. He can't play anymore.

I'd rather take an UDFA who can actually run faster than my grandma. This team needs athletes not retread guys who are applying for an AARP card.

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Old 03-02-2012, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Those stats are completely flawed because of who Ahmad Brooks is playing with. Give Spencer Aubrayo Franklin at NT and Justin Smith at DE and see how he does. And don't give me the "he plays opposite Ware" crap. I hate when people say that. That has nothing to do with anything. What affects the linebackers are the down 3 to eat up blockers. The linebacker on the other side has minimal effect. Again, they are OLB's on opposite sides of the LOS. Spencer is a strong side linebacker. Ware's pass rushing dominance has no effect on the blocking spencer gets. Terribel misconception.

Either way, if Brooks is better than Spencer, it's pretty much splitting hairs. I really like Fletcher Cox as a potential DL at 14.
Aubrayo Franklin plays on the Saints, but I hear you. Although Ratliff may have declined a bit he still sees his fair share of G/C double teams, but I agree that Justin Smith is a beast.

But you're way off the mark about Ware's impact. Teams usually send out an extra blocker, whether a back out of the backfield to chip or a TE to help out the Tackle by lengthening the corner, on the defense's best edge rusher. However with someone like Ware they're going to often times do both, especially with someone like Spencer who has trouble beating single blocks playing on the other side. It's really just common sense that Ware's presence should make Spencer's job a lot easier in getting to the QB because there isn't a lot of help the offense can give to the other Tackle when they're focusing so heavily on Ware throughout the game. Every Pass Rusher around the league would kill for the opportunity to play opposite someone like Ware because they know they'd be getting PAID that off-season if they can take advantage of all those 1on1 matchups. Spencer probably has no idea how easy he's had it here, and apparently some of his supporters don't either.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:36 AM    (permalink
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Aubrayo Franklin plays on the Saints, but I hear you. Although Ratliff may have declined a bit he still sees his fair share of G/C double teams, but I agree that Justin Smith is a beast.

But you're way off the mark about Ware's impact. Teams usually send out an extra blocker, whether a back out of the backfield to chip or a TE to help out the Tackle by lengthening the corner, on the defense's best edge rusher. However with someone like Ware they're going to often times do both, especially with someone like Spencer who has trouble beating single blocks playing on the other side. It's really just common sense that Ware's presence should make Spencer's job a lot easier in getting to the QB because there isn't a lot of help the offense can give to the other Tackle when they're focusing so heavily on Ware throughout the game. Every Pass Rusher around the league would kill for the opportunity to play opposite someone like Ware because they know they'd be getting PAID that off-season if they can take advantage of all those 1on1 matchups. Spencer probably has no idea how easy he's had it here, and apparently some of his supporters don't either.
Let me start by saying I love Demarcus Ware... but I was watching some games that I DVR'd and noticed that he used his speed rush almost exclusively last year. One of Ware's stengths throughout his career has been the use of his elite burst/strength to jar lineman back with a strong bullrush then counter off of it. Last season he went wide a lot especially at the end of the year, allowing QB's room to step up in the pocket and buy time while he was escorted around the halo by doubleteams. It didnt help that the line didn't collapse the pocket in and help him. Still it was a little concerning that he seemed to concede to one move and it may have been something teams gameplanned for. Notably the Eagles seemed to exploit the gap between Hatcher and Ware with delays/cutbacks.

Just thought it was interesting... Any thoughts ?

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Old 03-03-2012, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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Let me start by saying I love Demarcus Ware... but I was watching some games that I DVR'd and noticed that he used his speed rush almost exclusively last year. One of Ware's stengths throughout his career has been the use of his elite burst/strength to jar lineman back with a strong bullrush then counter off of it. Last season he went wide a lot especially at the end of the year, allowing QB's room to step up in the pocket and buy time while he was escorted around the halo by doubleteams. It didnt help that the line didn't collapse the pocket in and help him. Still it was a little concerning that he seemed to concede to one move and it may have been something teams gameplanned for. Notably the Eagles seemed to exploit the gap between Hatcher and Ware with delays/cutbacks.

Just thought it was interesting... Any thoughts ?
I know what you're talking about but I believe he started doing that after he hurt his neck, I think he was just trying to limit the amount of contact he was taking in games. His neck is becoming a bit worrisome though, that's one of those injuries that have high reoccurance rates.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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oh ya iamcanadien posted a thread with Gil Brandts top 100 in the main forum and thinks that Jerry let him use our big board. Feel free to back me up in telling him that isnt the case.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Brees just got the franchise tag and Nicks hasn't even received an offer from the Saints.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Brees just got the franchise tag and Nicks hasn't even received an offer from the Saints.
That's pretty incredible. I had my doubts, but it looks like the Saints are in a downward spiral. Bountygate should turn out to be pretty devastating for them too.

I'm going to seriously have to consider Nicks as a part of our offseason strategy. ...even with the cost in mind. This is exciting.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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That's pretty incredible. I had my doubts, but it looks like the Saints are in a downward spiral. Bountygate should turn out to be pretty devastating for them too.

I'm going to seriously have to consider Nicks as a part of our offseason strategy. ...even with the cost in mind. This is exciting.
Unfortunately, it's not happening. Just was listening to Todd Archer on the football show, and his conclusions from what he has heard from value ranch are as follows:

-We will franchise spencer
-We will sign a CB
-We will go after another Kosier type guard who is young and decent, not Nicks or Grubbs
-Barron is a real possibility at 14 because they want stability at safety.

Don't know how I feel about this.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Unfortunately, it's not happening. Just was listening to Todd Archer on the football show, and his conclusions from what he has heard from value ranch are as follows:

-We will franchise spencer
-We will sign a CB
-We will go after another Kosier type guard who is young and decent, not Nicks or Grubbs
-Barron is a real possibility at 14 because they want stability at safety.

Don't know how I feel about this.
I've come to terms that Spencer would be franchised after Brooks being signed
Finnegan/Carr are going to want $$$ =/
Hoping we can steal Jeremy Zuttah away from TB
If Barron is a true target Saban must be talking him up more then Kirkpatrick and Upshaw.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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I would not understand the Barron pick at all. Would that mean we trust Sensy to play well as a centerfielder? I'm getting Alan Ball flash-backs. Pretty sure if we pick Barron at 14 I may not be able to watch the rest of the draft. xD Only way to make me more angry would be if we didn't resign Spencer and then draft Upshaw at 14. -_-

Garrett has been VERY good at misinformation so I wonder if the organization has us all chasing smoke.

Have a feeling Spencer is going to drag this out until the last possible second and then sign a 4-5 year deal at about what Brooks is making.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Why is it that some people still think that any CREDIBLE info is ever leaked to any of these so called experts? The draft has never, and will never, ever be accurately projected. It's a very fun thing to follow the draft as everyone on this board probably agrees. However, I personally don't take anything i hear or read for more than a grain of salt. What teams are ACTUALLY thinking is kept about as secret as the JFK files. What i am really saying is that our team needs are obvious to all of us, so the people who actually run the team more than likely have a good idea as well. Most of the mocking and prognosticating that happens this time of the year is based off team needs. The one thing thats missing and will always be missing, is how a team is legitimately valuing a player. We find that stuff out after the draft.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Barron makes me wanna puke.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:49 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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LOL why was I worrying about Brook's contract. It would be amazing for Spencer to sign the same...

Quote:
When contract details were first published, word was that there were $17.5 million in guarantees. That number is accurate to a certain degree. There are $17.5 million in guarantees, but some are fully guaranteed and some are only guaranteed right away for injury. Basically, $8.25 million is fully guaranteed. That is the signing bonus of $7.5 million and the first year base of $750,000. After that, $4.3 million in 2013 and $4.95 million is guaranteed now for injury. It becomes fully guaranteed if Brooks is on the roster April 1 of that given year.

What does that mean? The team can cut Brooks for skill or for cap reasons at any point and only have to pay out the $8.25 million. For cap purposes, that would speed up the prorated signing bonus. The $7.5 million signing bonus is paid in full right away, but for cap purposes it is counted as $1.5 million for each of the next five seasons. If the team cuts Brooks before that five years is up, all remaining due cap charges are accelerated to whenever the cut happens.

All in all, it's not too bad a contract for the 49ers, while also providing Ahmad Brooks with plenty of incentive to put together some dominating seasons. Here is the breakdown:

Signing Bonus: $7,500,000 - For cap purposes, prorated out over five years ($1.5M per)
Roster bonuses: Based on number of games he is active in a season. Paid out on a per-game basis

2012
Base: $750,000
Roster Bonuses: $500,000 ($31,250 per game on active roster)
Workout Bonus: $100,000

2013
Base: $4,300,000 - immediately guaranteed for injury; becomes fully guaranteed if he is on the 49ers roster on April 1, 2013
De-escalator Clause: Base can decrease up to $2,500,000 based on 2012 sack totals
Escalator Clause: Base can increase up to $500,000 based on 2012 sack totals
Roster Bonuses: $750,000 ($46,875 per game on active roster)
Workout Bonus: $100,000

2014
Base: $5,150,000 - Of that, $4,950,000 is immediately guaranteed for injury; That $4,950,000 is fully guaranteed if he is on the 49ers roster on April 1, 2014
De-escalator: Base can decrease up to $2,500,000 based on 2013 sack totals - however, PFT reports that if 2013 de-escalator kicked in, this one goes away
Roster Bonuses: $750,000 ($46,875 per game on active roster)
Workout Bonus: $100,000

2015
Base: $6,000,000 - base salary guaranteed depends "on a complex formula of 'ifs' and 'ors.'" Revolves around being on active roster April 1, 2015
De-escalator: Base can decrease up to $2,500,000 based on 2014 sack totals - no word on if it goes away if 2013 or 2014 de-escalators apply
Roster Bonuses: $750,000 ($46,875 per game on active roster)
Workout Bonus: $100,000

2016
Base: $6,500,000
De-escalator: Base can decrease up to $2,500,000 based on 2015 sack totals - no word on if it goes away if 2013, 2014 or 2015 de-escalators apply
Roster Bonuses: $750,000 ($46,875 per game on active roster)
Workout Bonus: $100,000

2017
Base: $6,950,000
De-escalator: Base can decrease up to $2,500,000 based on 2016 sack totals - no word on if it goes away if 2013, 2014, 2015 or 2016 de-escalators apply
Roster Bonuses: $750,000 ($46,875 per game on active roster)
Workout Bonus: $100,000
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
TheFinisher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Ware Nightmare View Post
Why is it that some people still think that any CREDIBLE info is ever leaked to any of these so called experts? The draft has never, and will never, ever be accurately projected. It's a very fun thing to follow the draft as everyone on this board probably agrees. However, I personally don't take anything i hear or read for more than a grain of salt. What teams are ACTUALLY thinking is kept about as secret as the JFK files. What i am really saying is that our team needs are obvious to all of us, so the people who actually run the team more than likely have a good idea as well. Most of the mocking and prognosticating that happens this time of the year is based off team needs. The one thing thats missing and will always be missing, is how a team is legitimately valuing a player. We find that stuff out after the draft.
IDK, we were linked to Tyron last year at around this time and the final month leading up to the draft everyone knew it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that we were going to take him. And the year before that with Dez it had leaked fairly early that Jerry was gaga over him and if he fell within striking distance we would make the jump.

So our organization has a history of leaking info prior to the draft. We haven't been throwing out too many smokescreens these past few seasons.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:27 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinisher View Post
IDK, we were linked to Tyron last year at around this time and the final month leading up to the draft everyone knew it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that we were going to take him. And the year before that with Dez it had leaked fairly early that Jerry was gaga over him and if he fell within striking distance we would make the jump.

So our organization has a history of leaking info prior to the draft. We haven't been throwing out too many smokescreens these past few seasons.
It may have seemed like it but really it didn't boil down until the last couple weeks before that info really started to solidify. I agree though.... Bobby Carpenter was the same way. There is hardly ever suspense for us. It's always unknown until it's known but there's usually huge hints out there.

I'm not buying the Barron stuff though. Mike Adams will save the day.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinisher View Post
IDK, we were linked to Tyron last year at around this time and the final month leading up to the draft everyone knew it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that we were going to take him. And the year before that with Dez it had leaked fairly early that Jerry was gaga over him and if he fell within striking distance we would make the jump.

So our organization has a history of leaking info prior to the draft. We haven't been throwing out too many smokescreens these past few seasons.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Jerry came out prior to the 2010 draft and stated how in no way we would take a receiver, and last year everyone and their brother thought we were trading up for PP. Actually a huge deal was made of us drafting an OL in the 1st round in 20somethin years. The telegraphing goes back Parcells days here. Man he sucked at drafting. Just think if Jerry wouldnt have trumped his love for Spears and pulled the trigger on Ware. Too damn bad he didnt do it again and pull the trigger on a sliding Aaron Rodgers instead of BP's mancrush Spears!!!! If it were not for Spears and Parcells you argue that Dallas could have an additional 1-2 Superbowls. Man we should have currently have rostered Ware, Rodgers, & Steven Jackson. Its always irked me a bit that Parcells gets credit for Ware too. Back to the point though, revisit the threads, page 50ish last year, and their was still robust debate over Smith, Watt, Bowers, Quinn, Von. There are enough different opinions out there that someone is likely to hit with a couple. But nobody can link a perfect mock, let alone even a perfect team mock. So no one person, outside Jerrah & Co., is gonna have the real truth.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...eaked-pictures
And dont give me this **** either!!LOL!!
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:00 AM    (permalink
pocketaces
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On a subject that has been discussed on this board, here is Rick Gosslin's thoughts

The safe fall back pick at 14 is David DeCastro, the guard at Stanford. He may be the safest pick in the first round. And hes a guy who will be a walk-in starter and be a Pro Bowler inside of two seasons. But guard is not a premium position. The last time a guard went that high was 1997 when Chris Naeole went to 10 to the Saints. Most years, the first guard to go in the draft is in the 20s. And since 97, there have been six drafts where there were no guards taken in the first round.
I think if the Cowboys want to take a safe bet its DeCastro at 14. But his value will be in the 20s. Itll be a bit of a reach.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/n...ag-olb-spencer

Spencer will most likely be getting the franchise tag.
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