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Old 01-15-2007, 04:59 PM    (permalink
DMWSackMachine
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Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Wow, dude, I was beginning to wonder if we had lost you permanently. Good to hear from you, though. This thread has been going downhill fast since, oh....around early December. It would be nice if you could contribute a little more, we could definitely use as much input from good posters as we can get. The best way to exemplify the way this thread has been lately is in asking the question : "If two morons argue on a message board, and no one pays any attention, did it really happen?
LOL. Who was it that wrote about arrogance earlier and not liking name calling? Just too much.
I think it's fair to say that DMW and I have both been stating intelligent arguments for quite some time on this board. Some things you have said are well thought out, and some I classify as pipe dreams or otherwise unrealistic ideas. Just because something is broken (i.e. Roy Williams) doesn't mean it's easy to fix (i.e. trade Roy Williams for Shaun Rogers). Things like that don't work in the real world and suggesting them only serves to lessen your credibility.
LSU, man, I'm telling you, you don't want to even try. Every single regular poster on this thread has tried, and it ends with the same result every single time. You're wasting your time, man.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:02 PM    (permalink
cowboysforever
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[quote="DMWSackMachine"]
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Originally Posted by pocketaces
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Wow, where to begin.

- I'm gonna be the first to say it......Ellis getting hurt is going to end up being a good thing for this team.

see dmw you have made some questionable post before not to mention getting into arguments with other posters. now i will say that i tried way to hard to prove a point, which as it turns out were pointless because nothing presented was good enough anyway. i got carried away and i apoligize to you and all the other posters on this board and will try to be a better poster in the future. this board is too good and informative for the rants that ive been apart of these last few pages and i should have known better. again my apoligies to all and know it will never happen again.
You might want to fix that to reflect the fact that the Ellis quote was orginally made by me. As is, it is pretty confusing to someone who doesn't know what you are saying.

I know what I said was pretty harsh, but it was not aimed primarily at you. I remember thinking about a year ago that you were mainly a troll who didn't bring much substance to the discussion, but since then you haven't done much to warrant that kind of thought, so don't think I am criticising you for what you've done in the past. Mainly, the point is that if you try to have a discussion with Barney, then you end up looking like a purple dinosaur yourself, that's all. I actually agree with your point of view on the topic of discussion, but you didn't do much to help yourself by leaving out the corresponding links to the quotes you posted. Anyway, it was the kind of thing that drives people away from a message board, and exactly what moderators are supposed to prevent, but I haven't seen much moderation around here lately. Either way, no offense intended....to you. ;)

As for my statement about Ellis, it does look kind of silly now. You have to remember, though. At the time, Bobby wasn't getting any real PT, and the very next game against Indy we had probably our 2nd best pressure performance of the season against the great Peyton Manning. As is, I wouldn't say that it was really THAT bad a thing for us, as it allowed Carpenter to develop, as well as Hatcher, though it did hurt us badly as far as this year's performance went.
No offense intended to Pocket Aces?

First, you where referring to both of us when you threw out the insult. So we should be somewhat "upset" at the insult.

Second it is not the first time you have fought with Pocket Aces. In fact, you went after him somewhere around November. So that Pocket Aces is somewhat defensive is understandable.

Lastly, why you are apologizing now and saying "No Offense" after hurling the insult. Just stand by it and leave it there. It is ok to call someone dumb if you think they are dumb. Argue the "dumb" part with facts and analysis and see if you are right or wrong.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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[quote="DMWSackMachine"]
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Originally Posted by pocketaces
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Wow, where to begin.

- I'm gonna be the first to say it......Ellis getting hurt is going to end up being a good thing for this team.

see dmw you have made some questionable post before not to mention getting into arguments with other posters. now i will say that i tried way to hard to prove a point, which as it turns out were pointless because nothing presented was good enough anyway. i got carried away and i apoligize to you and all the other posters on this board and will try to be a better poster in the future. this board is too good and informative for the rants that ive been apart of these last few pages and i should have known better. again my apoligies to all and know it will never happen again.
You might want to fix that to reflect the fact that the Ellis quote was orginally made by me. As is, it is pretty confusing to someone who doesn't know what you are saying.

I know what I said was pretty harsh, but it was not aimed primarily at you. I remember thinking about a year ago that you were mainly a troll who didn't bring much substance to the discussion, but since then you haven't done much to warrant that kind of thought, so don't think I am criticising you for what you've done in the past. Mainly, the point is that if you try to have a discussion with Barney, then you end up looking like a purple dinosaur yourself, that's all. I actually agree with your point of view on the topic of discussion, but you didn't do much to help yourself by leaving out the corresponding links to the quotes you posted. Anyway, it was the kind of thing that drives people away from a message board, and exactly what moderators are supposed to prevent, but I haven't seen much moderation around here lately. Either way, no offense intended....to you. ;)

As for my statement about Ellis, it does look kind of silly now. You have to remember, though. At the time, Bobby wasn't getting any real PT, and the very next game against Indy we had probably our 2nd best pressure performance of the season against the great Peyton Manning. As is, I wouldn't say that it was really THAT bad a thing for us, as it allowed Carpenter to develop, as well as Hatcher, though it did hurt us badly as far as this year's performance went.

oh, my bad. yeah i know what you mean but to my defense im not real computer savy if i were i would have a fancy sig and all the bells and whistles to promote my love for the cowboys. oh well i try. no more barney arguments for me.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
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Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Wow, dude, I was beginning to wonder if we had lost you permanently. Good to hear from you, though. This thread has been going downhill fast since, oh....around early December. It would be nice if you could contribute a little more, we could definitely use as much input from good posters as we can get. The best way to exemplify the way this thread has been lately is in asking the question : "If two morons argue on a message board, and no one pays any attention, did it really happen?
LOL. Who was it that wrote about arrogance earlier and not liking name calling? Just too much.
I think it's fair to say that DMW and I have both been stating intelligent arguments for quite some time on this board. Some things you have said are well thought out, and some I classify as pipe dreams or otherwise unrealistic ideas. Just because something is broken (i.e. Roy Williams) doesn't mean it's easy to fix (i.e. trade Roy Williams for Shaun Rogers). Things like that don't work in the real world and suggesting them only serves to lessen your credibility.
LSU, I have no doubt you and DWS are good posters. I am not debating that but I also read your posts, and his, and you are wrong sometimes. For eaxmple, you where calling the OL good and D dominant. DWS was saying Eillis getting injured was for the better and that Rivera was pretty good. Now we can argue the degree to which these are wrong but I think they are just wrong.

So. On the play personnel stuff my one core, non-negotiable position is if you don't accept you have a real big problem then you can never really solve it. Problem identification is the start of a resolution regardless of contracts. Contracts can be structured and restructured and many times we fans don't understand how they worl.

Perfect example is Roy Williams. A few posters here like Roy Williams. They believe that Roy under a new scheme with a "Pro Bowl" FS would flourish like he did in 2003. Even when these individuals are uncomfortable arguing his abilities they say "CONTRACT." Can't make a change so forget it and move on .... Wrong.

Well let us start with contract. Mickey Spagnola just indicated Roy's contract requires a 5.5 MM roster bonus on March. So this makes moving Roy easier if true. Roy's 2006 Salary was 565K. Depending on how the math works it equates to a cap hit less than Vanderjagt if you eliminate Roy or trade him.

Now, if we would like to argue contract at this time. Please. Let us. But facts please. I want facts. Not emotional arguments why Roy is salvagable. Talk analytically about his contrat and the Cap Hit et al....

Now let us talk Performance on the Field and results. Mickey Spagnola's articel says it all on Roy. I listen to lots of analysts and not one outside of Dallas thinks Roy is any good as a SS. To put it in Mike Francesca's words from WFAN in NY -- "He is not any good more than 5 yards from the LOS and even there he is horrible at shedding blocks. Unless he gets a free run at a player he is horrid"

This is why Burress called him an ankle tackler.

He is a SS who can't cover what SS normally cover. He is a SS who at the Point of Attack near the LOS usually gives up his body instead of trying to make a play. He is a SS who is a step slow in zone coverage and takes bad angles. He is defensive in the locker room and is very sensitive to criticism.

I think Roy can play but in a vastly different scheme and as a different player as an OLB.

I think (hope, pray) Roy can transform his body and work very hard to improve fatal inadequacies for a SS.

So given all this. Why is Roy a lock on next year's roster? And even if a lock because of bonus, why is he even a starter?

Instead of killing our FS to cover up for Roy why not find a SS who can play the position well.

Anyway, good luck.
Ok, let me begin by saying that our OL is good and our Defense has been dominant. The first part of the season our defense played as good if not better than 30 other teams in the NFL.

Our offense was the third best scoring team in the NFL. You don't do that with a bad offensive line UNLESS you have Jim Brown at RB. Since our RB's are Average / Good you can't say that our OL was anything less than good. We didn't give up alot sacks, our 3rd down conversion rate was good and our QB was a 1st year starter. I'm sorry, but there are far more facts to support my theory that the OL was good than your theory that they weren't.

As for Roy Williams. Your original suggestion was to trade him for Shaun Rogers. Not only does his contract preclude that but so does Rogers'. Now, to suggest we cut him to save his roster bonus due in March because the net cap hit would be the same as keeping him does have some merit. As much as I think Roy Williams could improve as a player, I do not think he's bad enough to out and out cut him. Could his deal be restructured, well maybe. But you do realize that the player has to AGREE to do that right? It's just not up to the team. Now, if you're Roy Williams, and you are (despite your opinion on whether it's warranted or not, it is a fact) a 4 time pro-bowl player, would you call the Cowboys' bluff to cut you if you don't restructure? Do you not think that to Roy Williams he could get cut, then go sign another deal with those credentials? I sure do, so where exactly is the leverage the Cowboys have?

Again, just because you can cut the guy, doesn't mean it makes sense. By your own calculations it cost the same to cut him or keep him. So why not keep him? He's certainly better than 16 other safeties in the NFL. If the average safety is what you are comparing him against AND keeping him vs. cutting him is a net zero gain, then it's obvious that the best thing to do is to keep him.

Restructuring would be the best solution for the Cowboys, however Roy Williams' has nothing to gain from that. I don't see any bargaining power the Cowboys have to restructure him at this point.
May I. .... Thanks for the well thought out response. I will try my best and you can judge how idiotic I am or unreasonable.

I proposed Roy Williams and Burnett for Shaun Rogers as an idea. The proposition is based on the Marinelli scheme, their needs for LB and that Roges is not liked by Marinelli. Also, we could really help the rest of the D with a more dominant DT. On the Rogers contract. Rogers is 8MM per year. Roy 5MM + Burnett XXMM. I think Burnett would likely slot in ok from a contract perspective.

Does this mean go out right now and proclaim it done. No. Everything needs work. All good ideas need work.

I propose benching or cutting Roy if if if a) he can't be traded or b) he does not reshape his body and mind to play the position of SS. Does this mean he is a goner by March. I dunno. I think there is some smoke to the fire called "Roy Sucks." I think Mickey Spagnola lit is officially with the help of Matt Mosley in Dallas. Where is goes I dunno either. I am sure the BP and DC conversation precedes the personnel discussion.

I disagree that Roy is a top 16 SS. I think the Spagnola article says it all. I know that 40% of our TDs went to the TE and FB when league averge is 20%. I know that our D's TD/WR per game is about league average. I know this means that while the rush can be better the weakness is how we cover TE and FB/TB.

I did not see a dominant D because I never saw a dominant pass rush. I saw a good D which played on great game versus Indy.

I did not see a good OL. I saw an OL that struggled pass blocking which was masked by a Houdini QB. I saw too many OG in the back field laying on their back. I saw an OL that on occassion had good games. I saw an OL that was short changed somewhat by the adequate RB situation and, early on, by an immobile QB.

So, I think I hit them all. I hope this meets someone's approval.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Wow, dude, I was beginning to wonder if we had lost you permanently. Good to hear from you, though. This thread has been going downhill fast since, oh....around early December. It would be nice if you could contribute a little more, we could definitely use as much input from good posters as we can get. The best way to exemplify the way this thread has been lately is in asking the question : "If two morons argue on a message board, and no one pays any attention, did it really happen?
LOL. Who was it that wrote about arrogance earlier and not liking name calling? Just too much.
I think it's fair to say that DMW and I have both been stating intelligent arguments for quite some time on this board. Some things you have said are well thought out, and some I classify as pipe dreams or otherwise unrealistic ideas. Just because something is broken (i.e. Roy Williams) doesn't mean it's easy to fix (i.e. trade Roy Williams for Shaun Rogers). Things like that don't work in the real world and suggesting them only serves to lessen your credibility.
LSU, man, I'm telling you, you don't want to even try. Every single regular poster on this thread has tried, and it ends with the same result every single time. You're wasting your time, man.
Not saying you are the only one DMW, nor is it abnormal, but this site sometimes sounds like an echo chamber. I would swear there are 5 or 6 posters who are the same person.

There is not one idea I have presented which is bad. Maybe mis-understood. Maybe less possible. But flat out bad? I am waiting for the some facts and historical data to show otherwise.

I would like to see your analysis and numerical facts showing otherwise.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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You just can't trade a player like Roy Williams and Burnett. Roy Williams is somewhat a cover figure for the boys, and you just can't trade him out. Burnett is an above average player and getting only better. I do agree Roy hasnt been great, and I do agree he has been average. He lost his swagger. Right now, he is too afraid to play close to the LOS because he thinks he might get burned. Hes lost his confidence.

Zimmer had no idea what he was doing. He didn't coach on how to jam TEs or WRs. Our secondary isnt to blame. Our LBs would barely touch/jam TEs/WRs, and then the they would simply split the Safety making it a large gain. It goes deeper than that. Our 3 man line can't produce enough pressure. WE cant even blitz properly. It would take more than 2 seconds for Roy to actually hit the LOS while blitzing, giving the QB ample time to read and recognize. What kind of coaching and blitzing is this...

Trust me. You solve the line you solve the defense.

Because everything starts from the trenches.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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You just can't trade a player like Roy Williams and Burnett. Roy Williams is somewhat a cover figure for the boys, and you just can't trade him out.
There are no sacred cows on my football team and there should be none on Jerra's.

It is fundamentally this very line of reasoning which prevents the development of better solutions to the Roy problem, better solutions in sports, business, politics and society.

Better pass rush? I will take it every time but who would not.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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You just can't trade a player like Roy Williams and Burnett. Roy Williams is somewhat a cover figure for the boys, and you just can't trade him out.
There are no sacred cows on my football team and there should be none on Jerra's.

It is fundamentally this very line of reasoning which prevents the development of better solutions to the Roy problem, better solutions in sports, business, politics and society.

Better pass rush? I will take it every time but who would not.
Judge him with an new D-Coordinator.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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May I. .... Thanks for the well thought out response. I will try my best and you can judge how idiotic I am or unreasonable.

I proposed Roy Williams and Burnett for Shaun Rogers as an idea. The proposition is based on the Marinelli scheme, their needs for LB and that Roges is not liked by Marinelli. Also, we could really help the rest of the D with a more dominant DT. On the Rogers contract. Rogers is 8MM per year. Roy 5MM + Burnett XXMM. I think Burnett would likely slot in ok from a contract perspective.

Does this mean go out right now and proclaim it done. No. Everything needs work. All good ideas need work.

I propose benching or cutting Roy if if if a) he can't be traded or b) he does not reshape his body and mind to play the position of SS. Does this mean he is a goner by March. I dunno. I think there is some smoke to the fire called "Roy Sucks." I think Mickey Spagnola lit is officially with the help of Matt Mosley in Dallas. Where is goes I dunno either. I am sure the BP and DC conversation precedes the personnel discussion.

I disagree that Roy is a top 16 SS. I think the Spagnola article says it all. I know that 40% of our TDs went to the TE and FB when league averge is 20%. I know that our D's TD/WR per game is about league average. I know this means that while the rush can be better the weakness is how we cover TE and FB/TB.

I did not see a dominant D because I never saw a dominant pass rush. I saw a good D which played on great game versus Indy.

I did not see a good OL. I saw an OL that struggled pass blocking which was masked by a Houdini QB. I saw too many OG in the back field laying on their back. I saw an OL that on occassion had good games. I saw an OL that was short changed somewhat by the adequate RB situation and, early on, by an immobile QB.

So, I think I hit them all. I hope this meets someone's approval.
See this is where I disagree with your argument. You want to quote statistics and facts, yet when I point out the facts that the OL performed well in all categories, you say 'well I saw'. I'm using facts to support an opinion and you are dismissing facts because they do not support your opinion.

To me that shows you have made up your opinion and have disregarded any facts that do not help your cause. That is a classic example of poor debating skills.

Also, you then go on to say that Roy Williams is not a top 16 safety. Ok, while I may disagree with this, let's assume it's true. If it is true that Roy Williams is not a top 16 safety, and Kevin Burnett is a role playing LB at best, why on earth would Detroit trade a dominant DT for that? Not only is Roy a worse than average S, he's one of the top paid S in the NFL. How is this even remotely a good trade for Detroit? You then go on to say it's based on Marinelli's style. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since it's called the "Tampa 2" style of Cover 2, exactly how does that play to Roy Williams' strenghths? If anything, it plays to his WEAKNESS more than any other scheme because it puts him in coverage almost exclusively.

This is exactly the type of reasoning that I question in your posts. You make a statement like "Roy Williams is a below average S" and at the same time expect trading him would bring a dominant DT based on his salary. How can you rant about how bad he is and expect to trade him for any value? It's purely Madden-esque logic. And that Madden-esque logic doesn't work in the NFL.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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I need the answer to one question before I can present you guys with an idea.

Which linebacker would be easier to get rid of, Akin Ayodele or Bradie James? And the answer can't be "neither"
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DaRkNiGht08
You just can't trade a player like Roy Williams and Burnett. Roy Williams is somewhat a cover figure for the boys, and you just can't trade him out.
There are no sacred cows on my football team and there should be none on Jerra's.

It is fundamentally this very line of reasoning which prevents the development of better solutions to the Roy problem, better solutions in sports, business, politics and society.

Better pass rush? I will take it every time but who would not.
Judge him with an new D-Coordinator.
Maybe. He is not without some talent.

But if I had to bet $$$$ comes August and Roy is still at 230lbs playing SS -- I would be Roy plays as poorly. Regardless of D Coorindator.

I just have not heard an analytical argument to how Roy plays SS effectively if he can't cover a TE.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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I need the answer to one question before I can present you guys with an idea.

Which linebacker would be easier to get rid of, Akin Ayodele or Bradie James? And the answer can't be "neither"
I liked Ayodele when he got to play, but James is a leader on the team...

Nope. I'd still keep Ayodele.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
I need the answer to one question before I can present you guys with an idea.

Which linebacker would be easier to get rid of, Akin Ayodele or Bradie James? And the answer can't be "neither"
I don't know the particulars of Bradie James' deal, but I'd say the harder of the two to cut would be James. I think you could trade Ayodele easier since he's shown success as an OLB in the 4-3 also. So, I'd say getting rid of Ayodele would be easier, but he's also the one that you'd be less likely to want to get rid of from a talent point of view.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone know when we're gonna get decisions on the DC job and on Parcells future?

I want him back for another year. There is no better option out there and this year felt like we were a year away.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Look out for a NEW OC Dan Henning. He got cut from Carolina and has a past with Parcells.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
I need the answer to one question before I can present you guys with an idea.

Which linebacker would be easier to get rid of, Akin Ayodele or Bradie James? And the answer can't be "neither"
Ayodele got a 5 year 17million dollar deal with 5m up front (iirc). Bradie got substantially more than that, and quite a bit more guaranteed as well. So Bradie would be the harder to get rid of from a cap standpoint. Also, he makes the calls for the defense, and has started to mature into a leadership role as well, so I would have to say that Ayodele would be easier to get rid of, though I from a pure production standpoint this season, I think Ayodele was probably a bit better.

So, in conclusion, I would say neither.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Look out for a NEW OC Dan Henning. He got cut from Carolina and has a past with Parcells.
BTW, another guy with a Parcells history is Maurice Carthon. Name to look for as an assistant/RB coach.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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May I. .... Thanks for the well thought out response. I will try my best and you can judge how idiotic I am or unreasonable.

I proposed Roy Williams and Burnett for Shaun Rogers as an idea. The proposition is based on the Marinelli scheme, their needs for LB and that Roges is not liked by Marinelli. Also, we could really help the rest of the D with a more dominant DT. On the Rogers contract. Rogers is 8MM per year. Roy 5MM + Burnett XXMM. I think Burnett would likely slot in ok from a contract perspective.

Does this mean go out right now and proclaim it done. No. Everything needs work. All good ideas need work.

I propose benching or cutting Roy if if if a) he can't be traded or b) he does not reshape his body and mind to play the position of SS. Does this mean he is a goner by March. I dunno. I think there is some smoke to the fire called "Roy Sucks." I think Mickey Spagnola lit is officially with the help of Matt Mosley in Dallas. Where is goes I dunno either. I am sure the BP and DC conversation precedes the personnel discussion.

I disagree that Roy is a top 16 SS. I think the Spagnola article says it all. I know that 40% of our TDs went to the TE and FB when league averge is 20%. I know that our D's TD/WR per game is about league average. I know this means that while the rush can be better the weakness is how we cover TE and FB/TB.

I did not see a dominant D because I never saw a dominant pass rush. I saw a good D which played on great game versus Indy.

I did not see a good OL. I saw an OL that struggled pass blocking which was masked by a Houdini QB. I saw too many OG in the back field laying on their back. I saw an OL that on occassion had good games. I saw an OL that was short changed somewhat by the adequate RB situation and, early on, by an immobile QB.

So, I think I hit them all. I hope this meets someone's approval.
See this is where I disagree with your argument. You want to quote statistics and facts, yet when I point out the facts that the OL performed well in all categories, you say 'well I saw'. I'm using facts to support an opinion and you are dismissing facts because they do not support your opinion.

To me that shows you have made up your opinion and have disregarded any facts that do not help your cause. That is a classic example of poor debating skills.

Also, you then go on to say that Roy Williams is not a top 16 safety. Ok, while I may disagree with this, let's assume it's true. If it is true that Roy Williams is not a top 16 safety, and Kevin Burnett is a role playing LB at best, why on earth would Detroit trade a dominant DT for that? Not only is Roy a worse than average S, he's one of the top paid S in the NFL. How is this even remotely a good trade for Detroit? You then go on to say it's based on Marinelli's style. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since it's called the "Tampa 2" style of Cover 2, exactly how does that play to Roy Williams' strenghths? If anything, it plays to his WEAKNESS more than any other scheme because it puts him in coverage almost exclusively.

This is exactly the type of reasoning that I question in your posts. You make a statement like "Roy Williams is a below average S" and at the same time expect trading him would bring a dominant DT based on his salary. How can you rant about how bad he is and expect to trade him for any value? It's purely Madden-esque logic. And that Madden-esque logic doesn't work in the NFL.
OK Cool. Again, the Madden reference is out of line but lemme go ahead and address ....

The OL struggled versus better Defenses and if you wish to use stats to make a point then also point out the following. Yes, they where a 5/6 O in the league but mostly a result of the passing game and Romo's legs. How many times did we hear how great Romo ws getting out of the pocket to find yards in the passing game.

But let me provide stats to show we have a below average OL .......

#15 in the league in Yards / Attempt
#15 in the league in 20+ runs
#20 in sacks (with a mobile QB)
#27 in Penalties (mostly the OL)

Not exactly a top tier line. But maybe we are discussing shades of difference.

On Roy and Burnett to Detroit. First I was told cap, now that I am showing numbers I am told forget Cap let us talk talent. Fine, let us speak talent.

1) I think Burnett is a starter in a 4-3. I think he is very talented. I never called him anything other. Your are attributing "role playing LB" comment to me but I never said it or implied it. I really dislike that form of dialogue and speaks poorly to the counter party. But to be clear, I strongly think Burnett is a 4-3 SOLB starter. I think he is a perfect Marinelli guy.

2) Roy is not a SS in the Tampa 2. Roy is a 4-3 WOLB. I said he has talent. I said he is not a SS. Disagree but I do think Roy W is an excellent talent for 4-3 WOLB.

3) Rogers is not liked by Marinelli so getting some value is great for Marinelli. Getting a starting LB corp of Burnett, Sims and Roy Williams is very interesting if you ask me. Call it Madden if you like but giving up a DT you don't want for a starting LB corp is not a bad exchange

4) Detroit is back logged in young DT talent.

Last one: You said "How can you rant about how bad he is and expect to trade him for any value?"

It matters not how much I think the stock price is worth but how much the market does and how much they will pay me for it. Ditto on football players number 1. And I can use the same arguement versus you.... Why would the Detroit Lions not trade for a PRO BOWL SS.

So....... would love to hear back.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Okay thank you fellas. Anyways I'll get on with my idea.

This is extreme and normally I'd dismiss this if I saw somebody else with the idea but this is my own creativity not what the Cowboys WILL do, or what I think they'll do.

We all know the struggles of the Cowboys coverage. We all know the Cowboys struggles in the pass rush department.

Roy Williams is a great player no one can deny that. The problem is he is being forced to cover and he cannot, as we have seen time and time again.

I for one am tired of all the mismatches, and anytime we play teams with running backs who can catch out of the backfield there will always be a mismatch in the opposing teams favor.

I say scrap the 3-4, and while we are at it scrap Bill Parcells. It’s bold but this team needs to move on. Bill is stuck in the 1800’s. His crap doesn’t work anymore. He’s a good coach, a great one in fact. He is one of the best at teaching players life lessons along with football ones, but it’s time to move on. He is holding this team back and this defense has too much talent to go to waste.

Anyways the main reason for this post is the defense so let me get right to it.

Patrick Watkins remains the starting free safety. Anthony Henry and Terence Newman remain the starting cornerbacks.

ROY WILLIAMS moves to strong-side linebacker. Don’t give me the crap that he isn’t big enough, he can take on any running back or tight end in the league, and he could do the job very well in my opinion.

Draft Reggie Nelson or LaRon Landry which ever is available at our pick and start them at strong safety.

Bradie James will continue to start at middle linebacker. Trade Ayodele for whatever he is worth. Ayodele played well and it’s sad to get rid of him but this is for the best of the Dallas Cowboys.

Bobby Carpenter moves to weak-side linebacker. I like what I saw of him and he has the versatility to play inside or outside though he is a better outside linebacker so that’s where we will start him at.

Move DeMarcus Ware to right defensive end; maybe have him add some more bulk but overall I think he would do pretty good and he would be playing his natural position.

Jason Hatcher and Jason Ferguson will play to two defensive tackle spots.

Play Chris Canty or Marcus Spears at the left defensive end spot, which ever proved to be better in camp, the other could eventually move inside when Ferg got too old.

So in conclusion the Dallas Cowboys defensive lineup would consist of……


FS SS
Watkins Landry


RCB LCB
Henry Newman


ROLB MLB LOLB
Carpenter James R. Williams


RDE RDT LDT LDE
Ware Hatcher Ferguson Canty


Thoughts???
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Okay thank you fellas. Anyways I'll get on with my idea.

This is extreme and normally I'd dismiss this if I saw somebody else with the idea but this is my own creativity not what the Cowboys WILL do, or what I think they'll do.

We all know the struggles of the Cowboys coverage. We all know the Cowboys struggles in the pass rush department.

Roy Williams is a great player no one can deny that. The problem is he is being forced to cover and he cannot, as we have seen time and time again.

I for one am tired of all the mismatches, and anytime we play teams with running backs who can catch out of the backfield there will always be a mismatch in the opposing teams favor.

I say scrap the 3-4, and while we are at it scrap Bill Parcells. It’s bold but this team needs to move on. Bill is stuck in the 1800’s. His crap doesn’t work anymore. He’s a good coach, a great one in fact. He is one of the best at teaching players life lessons along with football ones, but it’s time to move on. He is holding this team back and this defense has too much talent to go to waste.

Anyways the main reason for this post is the defense so let me get right to it.

Patrick Watkins remains the starting free safety. Anthony Henry and Terence Newman remain the starting cornerbacks.

ROY WILLIAMS moves to strong-side linebacker. Don’t give me the crap that he isn’t big enough, he can take on any running back or tight end in the league, and he could do the job very well in my opinion.

Draft Reggie Nelson or LaRon Landry which ever is available at our pick and start them at strong safety.

Bradie James will continue to start at middle linebacker. Trade Ayodele for whatever he is worth. Ayodele played well and it’s sad to get rid of him but this is for the best of the Dallas Cowboys.

Bobby Carpenter moves to weak-side linebacker. I like what I saw of him and he has the versatility to play inside or outside though he is a better outside linebacker so that’s where we will start him at.

Move DeMarcus Ware to right defensive end; maybe have him add some more bulk but overall I think he would do pretty good and he would be playing his natural position.

Jason Hatcher and Jason Ferguson will play to two defensive tackle spots.

Play Chris Canty or Marcus Spears at the left defensive end spot, which ever proved to be better in camp, the other could eventually move inside when Ferg got too old.

So in conclusion the Dallas Cowboys defensive lineup would consist of……


FS SS
Watkins Landry


RCB LCB
Henry Newman


ROLB MLB LOLB
Carpenter James R. Williams


RDE RDT LDT LDE
Ware Hatcher Ferguson Canty


Thoughts???
I think this nutty but why not. This is what a blog if for.

And no, this is not Madden-esque. It is fun on a blog.

Thank god the damn is breaking on the thought police.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Wow, dude, I was beginning to wonder if we had lost you permanently. Good to hear from you, though. This thread has been going downhill fast since, oh....around early December. It would be nice if you could contribute a little more, we could definitely use as much input from good posters as we can get. The best way to exemplify the way this thread has been lately is in asking the question : "If two morons argue on a message board, and no one pays any attention, did it really happen?
LOL. Who was it that wrote about arrogance earlier and not liking name calling? Just too much.
I think it's fair to say that DMW and I have both been stating intelligent arguments for quite some time on this board. Some things you have said are well thought out, and some I classify as pipe dreams or otherwise unrealistic ideas. Just because something is broken (i.e. Roy Williams) doesn't mean it's easy to fix (i.e. trade Roy Williams for Shaun Rogers). Things like that don't work in the real world and suggesting them only serves to lessen your credibility.
LSU, I have no doubt you and DWS are good posters. I am not debating that but I also read your posts, and his, and you are wrong sometimes. For eaxmple, you where calling the OL good and D dominant. DWS was saying Eillis getting injured was for the better and that Rivera was pretty good. Now we can argue the degree to which these are wrong but I think they are just wrong.

So. On the play personnel stuff my one core, non-negotiable position is if you don't accept you have a real big problem then you can never really solve it. Problem identification is the start of a resolution regardless of contracts. Contracts can be structured and restructured and many times we fans don't understand how they worl.

Perfect example is Roy Williams. A few posters here like Roy Williams. They believe that Roy under a new scheme with a "Pro Bowl" FS would flourish like he did in 2003. Even when these individuals are uncomfortable arguing his abilities they say "CONTRACT." Can't make a change so forget it and move on .... Wrong.

Well let us start with contract. Mickey Spagnola just indicated Roy's contract requires a 5.5 MM roster bonus on March. So this makes moving Roy easier if true. Roy's 2006 Salary was 565K. Depending on how the math works it equates to a cap hit less than Vanderjagt if you eliminate Roy or trade him.

Now, if we would like to argue contract at this time. Please. Let us. But facts please. I want facts. Not emotional arguments why Roy is salvagable. Talk analytically about his contrat and the Cap Hit et al....

Now let us talk Performance on the Field and results. Mickey Spagnola's articel says it all on Roy. I listen to lots of analysts and not one outside of Dallas thinks Roy is any good as a SS. To put it in Mike Francesca's words from WFAN in NY -- "He is not any good more than 5 yards from the LOS and even there he is horrible at shedding blocks. Unless he gets a free run at a player he is horrid"

This is why Burress called him an ankle tackler.

He is a SS who can't cover what SS normally cover. He is a SS who at the Point of Attack near the LOS usually gives up his body instead of trying to make a play. He is a SS who is a step slow in zone coverage and takes bad angles. He is defensive in the locker room and is very sensitive to criticism.

I think Roy can play but in a vastly different scheme and as a different player as an OLB.

I think (hope, pray) Roy can transform his body and work very hard to improve fatal inadequacies for a SS.

So given all this. Why is Roy a lock on next year's roster? And even if a lock because of bonus, why is he even a starter?

Instead of killing our FS to cover up for Roy why not find a SS who can play the position better than Roy.

Instead, the topic of discussion is "how do we rescue our lovable #8 pick who in 5 years has proven a disappointment as SS." Scheme, new FS, better pass rush ..... etc.

Anyway, good luck.
Sorry...double post, read the next one.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Wow, dude, I was beginning to wonder if we had lost you permanently. Good to hear from you, though. This thread has been going downhill fast since, oh....around early December. It would be nice if you could contribute a little more, we could definitely use as much input from good posters as we can get. The best way to exemplify the way this thread has been lately is in asking the question : "If two morons argue on a message board, and no one pays any attention, did it really happen?
LOL. Who was it that wrote about arrogance earlier and not liking name calling? Just too much.
I think it's fair to say that DMW and I have both been stating intelligent arguments for quite some time on this board. Some things you have said are well thought out, and some I classify as pipe dreams or otherwise unrealistic ideas. Just because something is broken (i.e. Roy Williams) doesn't mean it's easy to fix (i.e. trade Roy Williams for Shaun Rogers). Things like that don't work in the real world and suggesting them only serves to lessen your credibility.
LSU, I have no doubt you and DWS are good posters. I am not debating that but I also read your posts, and his, and you are wrong sometimes. For eaxmple, you where calling the OL good and D dominant. DWS was saying Eillis getting injured was for the better and that Rivera was pretty good. Now we can argue the degree to which these are wrong but I think they are just wrong.

So. On the play personnel stuff my one core, non-negotiable position is if you don't accept you have a real big problem then you can never really solve it. Problem identification is the start of a resolution regardless of contracts. Contracts can be structured and restructured and many times we fans don't understand how they worl.

Perfect example is Roy Williams. A few posters here like Roy Williams. They believe that Roy under a new scheme with a "Pro Bowl" FS would flourish like he did in 2003. Even when these individuals are uncomfortable arguing his abilities they say "CONTRACT." Can't make a change so forget it and move on .... Wrong.

Well let us start with contract. Mickey Spagnola just indicated Roy's contract requires a 5.5 MM roster bonus on March. So this makes moving Roy easier if true. Roy's 2006 Salary was 565K. Depending on how the math works it equates to a cap hit less than Vanderjagt if you eliminate Roy or trade him.

Now, if we would like to argue contract at this time. Please. Let us. But facts please. I want facts. Not emotional arguments why Roy is salvagable. Talk analytically about his contrat and the Cap Hit et al....

Now let us talk Performance on the Field and results. Mickey Spagnola's articel says it all on Roy. I listen to lots of analysts and not one outside of Dallas thinks Roy is any good as a SS. To put it in Mike Francesca's words from WFAN in NY -- "He is not any good more than 5 yards from the LOS and even there he is horrible at shedding blocks. Unless he gets a free run at a player he is horrid"

This is why Burress called him an ankle tackler.

He is a SS who can't cover what SS normally cover. He is a SS who at the Point of Attack near the LOS usually gives up his body instead of trying to make a play. He is a SS who is a step slow in zone coverage and takes bad angles. He is defensive in the locker room and is very sensitive to criticism.

I think Roy can play but in a vastly different scheme and as a different player as an OLB.

I think (hope, pray) Roy can transform his body and work very hard to improve fatal inadequacies for a SS.

So given all this. Why is Roy a lock on next year's roster? And even if a lock because of bonus, why is he even a starter?

Instead of killing our FS to cover up for Roy why not find a SS who can play the position better than Roy.

Instead, the topic of discussion is "how do we rescue our lovable #8 pick who in 5 years has proven a disappointment as SS." Scheme, new FS, better pass rush ..... etc.

Anyway, good luck.
If I remember correctly, you yourself just praised the heck out of an article that suggested that very same solution...an article that you later referenced in this same post.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
Okay thank you fellas. Anyways I'll get on with my idea.

This is extreme and normally I'd dismiss this if I saw somebody else with the idea but this is my own creativity not what the Cowboys WILL do, or what I think they'll do.

We all know the struggles of the Cowboys coverage. We all know the Cowboys struggles in the pass rush department.

Roy Williams is a great player no one can deny that. The problem is he is being forced to cover and he cannot, as we have seen time and time again.

I for one am tired of all the mismatches, and anytime we play teams with running backs who can catch out of the backfield there will always be a mismatch in the opposing teams favor.

I say scrap the 3-4, and while we are at it scrap Bill Parcells. It’s bold but this team needs to move on. Bill is stuck in the 1800’s. His crap doesn’t work anymore. He’s a good coach, a great one in fact. He is one of the best at teaching players life lessons along with football ones, but it’s time to move on. He is holding this team back and this defense has too much talent to go to waste.

Anyways the main reason for this post is the defense so let me get right to it.

Patrick Watkins remains the starting free safety. Anthony Henry and Terence Newman remain the starting cornerbacks.

ROY WILLIAMS moves to strong-side linebacker. Don’t give me the crap that he isn’t big enough, he can take on any running back or tight end in the league, and he could do the job very well in my opinion.

Draft Reggie Nelson or LaRon Landry which ever is available at our pick and start them at strong safety.

Bradie James will continue to start at middle linebacker. Trade Ayodele for whatever he is worth. Ayodele played well and it’s sad to get rid of him but this is for the best of the Dallas Cowboys.

Bobby Carpenter moves to weak-side linebacker. I like what I saw of him and he has the versatility to play inside or outside though he is a better outside linebacker so that’s where we will start him at.

Move DeMarcus Ware to right defensive end; maybe have him add some more bulk but overall I think he would do pretty good and he would be playing his natural position.

Jason Hatcher and Jason Ferguson will play to two defensive tackle spots.

Play Chris Canty or Marcus Spears at the left defensive end spot, which ever proved to be better in camp, the other could eventually move inside when Ferg got too old.

So in conclusion the Dallas Cowboys defensive lineup would consist of……


FS SS
Watkins Landry


RCB LCB
Henry Newman


ROLB MLB LOLB
Carpenter James R. Williams


RDE RDT LDT LDE
Ware Hatcher Ferguson Canty


Thoughts???
Funny on the MLB choice. I also feel Bradie is an excellent 4-3 MLB canidate but a below average 3-4 ILB.

Roy to 4-3 OLB is great if that where the case and plays to his strengths.

Spears over Hatcher as RDT.

Hatcher over Canty as LDE.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Funny on the MLB choice. I also feel Bradie is an excellent 4-3 MLB canidate but a below average 3-4 ILB.

Roy to 4-3 OLB is great if that where the case and plays to his strengths.

Spears over Hatcher as RDT.

Hatcher over Canty as LDE.
I could agree there.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I need the answer to one question before I can present you guys with an idea.

Which linebacker would be easier to get rid of, Akin Ayodele or Bradie James? And the answer can't be "neither"
Akin is easier to cut plus less tradable. Sort of failed at 4-3 OLB and not proven as 3-4 ILB.

Bradie is easier to trade. A perfect 4-3 MLB IMHO.
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