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Old 08-26-2013, 08:34 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Was Floyd injury prone in College or are you making that up? If you consider him IP what would you say about Claiborne, Murray, Ratliff, Austin(FA), Matt Johnson? We drafted all those guys, other than Johnson I havent heard anybody complaining about Jerry drafting Injury prone guys have you?

Im going to wait to see how the O-line does. If Leary gets back and stays healthy, along with Fredrick, looks to be a big upgrade over last year. Still not sold on the right side yet though.

Oh, and BTW...Tom Pelissero
Floyd could play this week if it were a real game. It's not, and #Vikings can't take any chances in light of KW's situation, so he won't.
8:57 AM - 26 Aug 2013

So much for Floyd being "injury prone"
We were never taking Floyd bro. Floyd didn't profile as a penetrating DT. He's more of a run stuffer. Kiffin/Martinelli want "rushmen". The scouts might've ranked their big board with Floyd high on it. But that big board is not gospel. I don't think any big board should be. You have to be able to attack the draft with flexibility. You can't just leave players OFF of it! You need to leave him on it because when you are OTC you have to be able to say, "Hey here is a guy who is ranked high, but not a real great fit for us. Let's see if we can work a trade with someone who might be willing to move up for him and get some value." Maybe you have several other guys you have in mind that you want to get that you wouldn't be able to get without a trade down.

At this point there is no sense in bringing up Floyd's name here. What you can do is criticize Frederick and T-Will if they become busts. But you can't say we should've stuck to our board and taken the highest rated guy no ifs ands or buts.

I still remain impressed with the Cowboys for being able to land Frederick at better value than reaching for him at 18 and getting a steal value pick in Williams who many thought was going higher. If there's a better interior OL player that we clearly missed on in between 18 and Frederick's pick, then I'd like to weight that on my mind.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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We were never taking Floyd bro. Floyd didn't profile as a penetrating DT. He's more of a run stuffer. Kiffin/Martinelli want "rushmen". The scouts might've ranked their big board with Floyd high on it. But that big board is not gospel. I don't think any big board should be. You have to be able to attack the draft with flexibility. You can't just leave players OFF of it! You need to leave him on it because when you are OTC you have to be able to say, "Hey here is a guy who is ranked high, but not a real great fit for us. Let's see if we can work a trade with someone who might be willing to move up for him and get some value." Maybe you have several other guys you have in mind that you want to get that you wouldn't be able to get without a trade down.

At this point there is no sense in bringing up Floyd's name here. What you can do is criticize Frederick and T-Will if they become busts. But you can't say we should've stuck to our board and taken the highest rated guy no ifs ands or buts.

I still remain impressed with the Cowboys for being able to land Frederick at better value than reaching for him at 18 and getting a steal value pick in Williams who many thought was going higher. If there's a better interior OL player that we clearly missed on in between 18 and Frederick's pick, then I'd like to weight that on my mind.
I didnt bring him up, was responding to somebody who did. We leave players off our boards all the time. If we have scout's rating players in the top 5 and that player isnt a fit or the coaches arent high on the player, seems to be a flaw in our draft process. Pretty sure we didnt trade down with Fredrick in mind, but when guys we thought would be there were taken, we panicked and reached for need. I get if you spent a 1st round pick on a QB last year and for some reason a QB slides to you the next year and you pass, but we have a need at DT. If hes not a top 5 guy then he shouldnt be there on our board. Anyway, like I said, Im not the one to bring him up.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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Was Floyd injury prone in College or are you making that up? If you consider him IP what would you say about Claiborne, Murray, Ratliff, Austin(FA), Matt Johnson? We drafted all those guys, other than Johnson I havent heard anybody complaining about Jerry drafting Injury prone guys have you?

Im going to wait to see how the O-line does. If Leary gets back and stays healthy, along with Fredrick, looks to be a big upgrade over last year. Still not sold on the right side yet though.

Oh, and BTW...Tom Pelissero
Floyd could play this week if it were a real game. It's not, and #Vikings can't take any chances in light of KW's situation, so he won't.
8:57 AM - 26 Aug 2013

So much for Floyd being "injury prone"


I'm saying if Floyd ends up being injury prone, Jerry would have gotten killed for it even if we picked him after he "fell". I'm not saying he is injury prone now, it's still early. I just know I'm excited about our first round pick and it's not so doom and gloom about the pick anymore. Or are you still upset that we have Frederick as a 1st rounder? I'm certainly not. I also don't think discrediting the pick by saying things like "Pretty sure we didnt trade down with Fredrick in mind, but when guys we thought would be there were taken, we panicked and reached for need."


Do you know that is the case? Or does it just sound better to call it a panic pick? I'm asking because I honestly don't know the answer and it seems pretty stupid to even wonder it. We upgraded our weakest position on the team with what appears to be a stud at Center. The same position we've seen getting the ball thrown over Tony's head for years and the same position that handles the line adjustments.


For all the talk people love to call Cowboys fans homers, only Cowboys fans will bash Jerry for taking a stud center late in the 1st round. Your still stuck on value and I've moved onto what the product on the field is, the sooner you do I promise you'll be more pleased with the draft. Considering we probably hit on a few starters it's just amazing that we are still complaining about that draft. Just because it wasn't the direction you personally wanted to see happen doesn't make it a bad one and I think that's the case here.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:57 AM    (permalink
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If you believe in the philosophy of building inside-out then it doesn't get better than starting with Center. TF was a ballsy pick and kudos to Jerry for making it happen.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:09 AM    (permalink
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If you believe in the philosophy of building inside-out then it doesn't get better than starting with Center. TF was a ballsy pick and kudos to Jerry for making it happen.
I almost feel like you're passive aggressive with these types of comments. Sometimes hard to read you. :)
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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I almost feel like you're passive aggressive with these types of comments. Sometimes hard to read you. :)
Try playing the forum mafia games with him! :D

If TF continues to play at his current level this season he won't be talked about as a reach he'll be talked about as a value pick.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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Try playing the forum mafia games with him! :D

If TF continues to play at his current level this season he won't be talked about as a reach he'll be talked about as a value pick.
I'm all about TF. At first I hated the pick and was pissed off, but then when I heard the Great Gil Brandt talk about him that night on NFL Network radio, I went home and watched more highlights of him and became a fan. Cannot wait to see how he operates when the games are for real.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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I'm all about TF. At first I hated the pick and was pissed off, but then when I heard the Great Gil Brandt talk about him that night on NFL Network radio, I went home and watched more highlights of him and became a fan. Cannot wait to see how he operates when the games are for real.
I have to admit that TF's combine really threw me for a loop. It ended up making me totally trash him as a prospect. Despite liking him during the season he was one that had a down arrow on his stock leading up to the draft. My impressions of him were based off shallow information.

When we took him, I had to take a deep breath and think about it before I overreacted. My first reaction was... I can't be mad. OL is OL and interior OL was easily our biggest weakness. The more digging up and the more news/rumors came out about him, it was easy to start loving him.

I'm with you. I cannot wait to see how he operates when the games are for real. But I really don't have any doubts to be honest. Zero. Dude is gonna be a stalwart on our line for the next 13 years.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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I have to admit that TF's combine really threw me for a loop. It ended up making me totally trash him as a prospect. Despite liking him during the season he was one that had a down arrow on his stock leading up to the draft. My impressions of him were based off shallow information.

When we took him, I had to take a deep breath and think about it before I overreacted. My first reaction was... I can't be mad. OL is OL and interior OL was easily our biggest weakness. The more digging up and the more news/rumors came out about him, it was easy to start loving him.

I'm with you. I cannot wait to see how he operates when the games are for real. But I really don't have any doubts to be honest. Zero. Dude is gonna be a stalwart on our line for the next 13 years.
I'm curious to see if we roll with Free @ RG and Parnell @ RT. Free looked decent the other night against a very solid group of DT's. Parnell seemed serviceable. Not sure I'm excited about Parnell right now, but I know he's missed some time with injuries during camp.

At this point, I'm sure Livings is on the chopping block. Leary will come back and secure the other guard position and Bern will be a back up.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm curious to see if we roll with Free @ RG and Parnell @ RT. Free looked decent the other night against a very solid group of DT's. Parnell seemed serviceable. Not sure I'm excited about Parnell right now, but I know he's missed some time with injuries during camp.

At this point, I'm sure Livings is on the chopping block. Leary will come back and secure the other guard position and Bern will be a back up.
With Free at RG I really think that will continue to be an experiment unless he REALLY owns it well. Wouldn't be surprised to see more flip flopping as the season goes. I hope Parnell is up to the task at RT. It's easy to like what he's shown there when he's had the chance, so I'm hopeful.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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IRVING, Texas -- The Dallas Cowboys placed defensive tackle Jay Ratliff on the reserve/physically unable to perform list, meaning he will miss at least the first six games of the season.

Ratliff, a four-time Pro Bowl player who was limited to six games last season by injuries, has not fully recovered from sports hernia surgery he underwent in December. He also strained his hamstring during the Cowboys' conditioning test at the beginning of training camp.

Ratliff can be activated on Oct. 14 at the earliest, but the Cowboys have a three-week window to evaluate him in practice before making a decision on his status. Ratliff can remain on the reserve/PUP list for up to 12 weeks. If he's not activated by that point, he's ineligible to play the remainder of the season.

The Cowboys had hoped that the shift to a 4-3 defense would rejuvenate the career of Ratliff, whose sack total has declined in five consecutive seasons, bottoming out at zero last year.


"I believe in Jay," Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones said earlier Tuesday, expressing confidence that Ratliff would contribute this season. "I think he's a competitor. I think, you know, there's some things that can be frustrating when you have injuries. … Those things happen. I'm convinced that we've got a program now -- he's had a few setbacks -- that hopefully will put him on the road where he can play for us at some point this season."

Ratliff did not rehab at the Cowboys' Valley Ranch facility this offseason. Jones was noncommittal about whether that might have been a factor in Ratliff's slow recovery.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/

Time to part ways. Has been a non factor for what, 3 years now?
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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IRVING, Texas -- The Dallas Cowboys placed defensive tackle Jay Ratliff on the reserve/physically unable to perform list, meaning he will miss at least the first six games of the season.

Ratliff, a four-time Pro Bowl player who was limited to six games last season by injuries, has not fully recovered from sports hernia surgery he underwent in December. He also strained his hamstring during the Cowboys' conditioning test at the beginning of training camp.

Ratliff can be activated on Oct. 14 at the earliest, but the Cowboys have a three-week window to evaluate him in practice before making a decision on his status. Ratliff can remain on the reserve/PUP list for up to 12 weeks. If he's not activated by that point, he's ineligible to play the remainder of the season.

The Cowboys had hoped that the shift to a 4-3 defense would rejuvenate the career of Ratliff, whose sack total has declined in five consecutive seasons, bottoming out at zero last year.


"I believe in Jay," Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones said earlier Tuesday, expressing confidence that Ratliff would contribute this season. "I think he's a competitor. I think, you know, there's some things that can be frustrating when you have injuries. … Those things happen. I'm convinced that we've got a program now -- he's had a few setbacks -- that hopefully will put him on the road where he can play for us at some point this season."

Ratliff did not rehab at the Cowboys' Valley Ranch facility this offseason. Jones was noncommittal about whether that might have been a factor in Ratliff's slow recovery.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/

Time to part ways. Has been a non factor for what, 3 years now?
I'm so over Jay Ratliff it's not even funny!!
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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I've wanted to cut Ratliff since his DUI, in fact I wanted to immediately after. Dragging this out is just making it worse.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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People think I am a Jerry apologist, but I will bash him when he deserves it.

Regarding Ratliff, he should've kept his damn mouth shut. The whole incident of Ratliff getting his absurd extension came after Jerry started raving about what a steal of a player he was getting for the price. Ratliff's agent heard that and went to work. Now Jerry is a fool for that and Ratliff's contract handicapped the team this past offseason.

Damn you Jerruh! :)
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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His contract means he's gone next year. He's with the team this year barring doing something that forces their hand.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/jay-ratliff/


We'll save almost 2 million next year by cutting him and taking the dead money instantly or save a bunch and push most of the dead money to the year beyond.

Mike Fisher actually broke it down nicely.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/08/26/t...g-jay-ratliff/

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In summary: Releasing Ratliff in 2013 would relieve some observers of their frustration but makes no financial sense at all. However, releasing him after the season could create either $1.3 or $5.5 million in cap savings, depending on whether he’s designated a post-June 1 cut or not.
I imagine after this year he'll get the "Doug Free" treatment i.e offering a pay cut with any refusal leading to his release for cap release. Personally unless Ratliff returns to his form from a couple years ago I'd rather cut him and move on.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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It sucks because here we are actually in a scheme that fits him beautifully and he may not even get going but I've had enough. Honestly after that DUI he had enough checks against him to go so anything we get from him willl be a bonus.


But with him leaving probably next year, Spencer leaving, and Hatcher leaving potentially all next year, it certainly looks like we need 2 put resources into the defensive line. Ideally you would think we just go offensive line early but it's looking bleak on that side.


On the defensive note, one thing I'm loving is how they play our safeties. Primarily they are both deep and taking away the deep plays forcing the offense into long, drawn out drives with the 'bend but dont break' mentality until they turn the ball over. I don't think we'll see as much of the all out blitz, guys in single coverage getting burned over the top. It is key imo because we don't really have anything special at Safety so it puts a limit on that position in terms of needing a stud back there, but it also could bring out the athletic upside in a guy like JJ Wilcox without having him over think things.


The down side is we may not have a defense that gets as many sacks as we are used to, or that puts the same type of pressure on the QB that Wade or Rob gave us. At least not until Spencer is 100% and Ratliff is back. This puts some slight concern to me for next year if we lose 3 starters on the D line because the key to this scheme is putting pressure on the QB with 4 men, but at the same time we don't mind giving up windows underneath probably because of our LB's.

I'll have to see it play out more, but it's an interesting change from what we are used to.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Something else I was thinking about the other day is the state of the CB's in our division. Does anyone realize we have the two best CB's in the division on our team, and the 3rd is Akumara who has been up to this point a solid, injury prone CB. We also have the best WR by far. Just an interesting dynamic to our division that plays into our favor.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I take our WRs vs the CBs in our division 100% of the time. I would also take our CBs vs the WRs in our division as well. Awesome to have that advantage.

As far as the defensive line barring a mega year from Hatcher I think we'll let him go to greener pastures. Ratliff is having the physical toll of miscasting as a 3-4 NT slowing him beyond help and his contract certainly means the end.

Spencer I would not be shocked to see resigned so long as he plays again at a high level. I LOVE the upcoming 3-tech crop so I will be waiting with bated breath for our pick next year.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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I would have to see cap figures, some of these guys just won't be able to stay, Miles Austin included. If Dez has the type of year we think that's over 10 million a season type of money, Tyron plays a very expensive position, Bruce Carter? Demarco? I hope we can free up some money because soon Romo's deal will start to escalate even higher and I would love to look at picking up 2-3 guys on the line next year in FA on the cheap.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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It sucks because here we are actually in a scheme that fits him beautifully and he may not even get going but I've had enough. Honestly after that DUI he had enough checks against him to go so anything we get from him willl be a bonus.


But with him leaving probably next year, Spencer leaving, and Hatcher leaving potentially all next year, it certainly looks like we need 2 put resources into the defensive line. Ideally you would think we just go offensive line early but it's looking bleak on that side.


On the defensive note, one thing I'm loving is how they play our safeties. Primarily they are both deep and taking away the deep plays forcing the offense into long, drawn out drives with the 'bend but dont break' mentality until they turn the ball over. I don't think we'll see as much of the all out blitz, guys in single coverage getting burned over the top. It is key imo because we don't really have anything special at Safety so it puts a limit on that position in terms of needing a stud back there, but it also could bring out the athletic upside in a guy like JJ Wilcox without having him over think things.


The down side is we may not have a defense that gets as many sacks as we are used to, or that puts the same type of pressure on the QB that Wade or Rob gave us. At least not until Spencer is 100% and Ratliff is back. This puts some slight concern to me for next year if we lose 3 starters on the D line because the key to this scheme is putting pressure on the QB with 4 men, but at the same time we don't mind giving up windows underneath probably because of our LB's.

I'll have to see it play out more, but it's an interesting change from what we are used to.
Yeah one of the reasons why so many of us wanted to keep him on the roster was the infatuation over the idea that he would be a boss in the 4-3 and FINALLY be used correctly.

Yeah, it's disappointing to see him on PUP, but a big part of me thinks that putting him there is actually the wise thing to do. If we get him truly healthy for the second half of the season, we could make a real strong push to go far. Playing him before he's ready would put a nail in his coffin without us giving him a chance to succeed.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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The thing that lets me know that Ratliff is probably done is how he injured himself. He did it during a conditioning test as opposed to doing something hardcore in practice. He's banged up a lot, and I'm betting that his body just isn't letting him do much if he gets a major strain while running some sprints.

As for what LL brought up about the receivers and corners, that's pretty cool. I didn't think about it that way. What I wonder if how much Claiborne improves this season, and hopefully the knee injury doesn't hold him back. He's got a lot of talent and potential, and this could be a breakout year for him.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:58 AM    (permalink
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I would have to see cap figures, some of these guys just won't be able to stay, Miles Austin included. If Dez has the type of year we think that's over 10 million a season type of money, Tyron plays a very expensive position, Bruce Carter? Demarco? I hope we can free up some money because soon Romo's deal will start to escalate even higher and I would love to look at picking up 2-3 guys on the line next year in FA on the cheap.
I'm assuming the idea behind drafting Williams was as an eventual replacement for Austin. What we can't do anymore is sign too many guys to extensions. We need to continue to draft well and replace from within. I wouldn't give big money to Murray, even if he's healthy all year and runs for 1500. Carter needs to prove he can last the year.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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I'm assuming the idea behind drafting Williams was as an eventual replacement for Austin. What we can't do anymore is sign too many guys to extensions. We need to continue to draft well and replace from within. I wouldn't give big money to Murray, even if he's healthy all year and runs for 1500. Carter needs to prove he can last the year.
Well said. This very well might be Austin's last year with us unless he takes a massive pay cut.

The only must resign is Dez and Tyron. If Carter signs an incentive laden contract like Lee that sounds like the best solution. If Murray runs for 1500 then you gotta resign him, it's gonna be tough to not want to resign him.

But I think we have a lot of addressing to do next offseason so money will be precious.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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One of the issues with the partnership of Jerry and Stephen Jones is that they repeat the same mistakes over and over again. It usually involves a veteran player with a healthy dose of optimism about how "things will work out." Those who dig deep into his mind speculate that this can all be traced back to Jerry's days wildcatting, but I won't bore you with that rerun.

What this boils down to is that the Cowboys were switching schemes on their defensive line (Will Need More DL), while losing one of your promising young DL players to jail (Will Need More DL), and another of your key players - Ratliff - only played 6 games in 2012 and looks like he may not be in perfect health in 2013 (Will Need More DL).

And yet, despite knowing all of this, they told the media that they were fine back on draft weekend:
“We feel like defensive line is a position of strength for us,” Jones responded when asked about Floyd. “In our system, we would probably put a premium on a quick-twitch potential three-technique. We [graded] him as not that, but that he certainly may be capable of getting there. That’s a case where are switch from a 3-4, he was obviously a nose tackle that had a lot of promise there at nose tackle. He’s an outstanding football player. … Again, I think you got to put our decision-making with a real focus on doing something with the interior of our offensive line.”
Now, nobody would argue that the Offensive Line might have been in an a worse overall position. In fact, I believe I made that exact point a number of times. But, that doesn't mean that you take one center and call it a draft on both lines of scrimmage. Having said this a dozen times for what seems like 5 years in a row, I know it must be a broken record by now, but why they had the advantageous position of 4 picks in the Top 80 and after taking Travis Frederick decided to go TE, WR, Safety is a very sore topic for me.

They knew that Josh Brent was gone. They knew that Jay Ratliff has not played at an elite level since 2009. They knew that they were asking a lot of Jason Hatcher to replicate Warren Sapp or John Randle in this scheme and that says nothing about asking Anthony Spencer to be a defensive end. And yet, when it was time to find a defensive lineman in the draft or free agency, they waltzed right by like they were totally set.

I know, I know. They have lots of other needs that also needed to be addressed. I would never argue that point.

But on May 6 we talked about all of the realities - even before they lost Tyrone Crawford:

Is it as big a mess as the offensive line was? Not really, unless you are concerned with what is around the next corner. The offensive line is present tense, but the defensive line is more of a future tense issue. However, what has killed the Cowboys? Lack of depth to deal with an injury. And if Ratliff pulls up lame in training camp, what is the plan? Full-time Lissemore at the 1-tech? It looks like it would have to be.

I have no issue with trading back to get 2 starters for pick #18 because actually that makes sound common sense. The issue is then spending your top 3 picks and really your entire draft without doing anything to help this group at all. I find that flirting with disaster and don't forget what we talked about last fall after the Offensive Line situation reared its head against Cleveland again:

It isn't coaching. It isn't effort.

It is, however, another indictment on the continuing failures of this current front office. I am sure when the 2012 season ends, like the secondary last spring, we will hear how fixing the offensive line in 2013 is the top priority. And they will use many of their resources to attempt to do just that. But, why it takes years for them to see things that are obvious to those watching their games remains a mystery.

Then, if it is fixed, the shell game of personnel fixes will move to another department of the squad that will be overdue for renovations, too. These are the effects of too many mistakes over the years in the personnel department. The holes out-number the plugs, and before long, you have issues that cannot be addressed because you are out of picks and cap space.

Once you leave the port each August for another season at sea, you cannot replenish your supplies until the season voyage is over. Meanwhile, in the middle of it, you are stuck with whatever you took with you. From week to week, as people complain about the coaching and the players, those who remain on the voyage do the best with what they have. But, clearly, what they have is not good enough, and no amount of effort is going to fix the issues for the long-term.
In 2013, they will leave port with a defensive line that might work but the best case/worst case scenarios are wildly problematic if there is one false step this year.
So, who replaces Jay Ratliff? Would you believe Nick Hayden? Hayden is one of the cool stories of camp and a guy who when I was watching him play in July seemed like a candidate to really fight for one of those final spots. That is all you can expect of a guy who is 27 years old and has kicked around a few organizations before finding his way here, right?. He played 33 snaps of NFL football in 2011, which is 33 more than his 0 in 2012 when he was healthy after an ankle sprain and his phone never rang after training camp.

But now, after one predictable situation with Jay Ratliff is finally revealed, the Cowboys are seemingly planning on him lining up against the Giants in Week 1 to unveil the all new Monte Kiffin defense.

Nick Hayden and George Selvie are both solid finds in the scrap heap of vagabonds. Selvie is 26 and this will be his 4th chance to catch on and appears to have promise. And maybe I am too gun-shy about using retread defenders after last season where they are looking on couches to fill out Rob Ryan's lineup in November and find Brady Poppinga and Charlie Peprah. Sometimes, these reclamation projects work, but when you have a chance to fix this with typical moves to fill holes (you know, the draft!) the Cowboys are telling us everything is fine. Now, with 11 days to go, Selvie, Hayden, and undrafted 2nd year pro Ben Bass are all going to need to play rather substantial roles it would appear.

They are also going to hope that Anthony Spencer is ready with no camp, Sean Lissemore is ready with very little camp, and Jason Hatcher heals.

Optimism never works in the NFL. But, it appears to be a key strategy again for the Jones war-room.

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Old 08-28-2013, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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I am glad to see everyone has come around with our first round pick. I thought a center from Wisconsin was just what the doctor ordered. Maybe they did get screwed in the trade, but I think they made the best out of a bad situation. I would have drafted more interior line, but TF was a great start.

And an interesting note-Jay Ratliff hasn't played much in a long time. He (if healthy) would be playing the same position that Sapp played for Kiffin. However, at the age that Ratliff is, the Buccs had already shipped Sapp off because he was fairly used up. This makes me feel that everyone that has posted about all of the "When Ratliff gets back" are not being very realistic. His upside is very low. He was a hell of a player, and I will remember him fondly. But thinking that he will bring anything back to the table is wishful thinking and not based on logic.

And as for Spencer....he had a good year. But Selvie may be the replacement we need for him. At this point in the evolution of the NFL, every team has to have major contributors that don't make a lot of money. Spencer doesn't fit that mold, IMO.

And as for Murray-I guess I don't see what everyone sees. He is good when he is right, I will give him that. But there just isn't enough space in the cap to pay him a huge contract. Thanks for your service, but we just can't pay you like a top back.

And the posts about our WR's and DB's compared to the others in our division was right on. I had not thought about that till I read the posts. But you guys nailed it. Very insightful.
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