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Old 01-21-2014, 05:41 AM    (permalink
shane_man
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Originally Posted by D-Unit
That's skewed stat because 1) we have had success with late round DTs becoming starters 2) we have invested a lot of our salary cap to the position and 3) we moved to the 3-4 which reduces the number of DTs needed for our scheme.
We have had success with ONE late round pick becoming a starter.

Otherwise we rode our luck with all the players Parcells drafted and signed. We haven't done anything worth noting to keep churning over players preferring to look at FA scrap heaps.

Which was why I LOOOOOOVED the selection of Crawford.(It's just sucked that he's been injured for two years)

The salary cap commitments are 2x Franchise Tag's. D.Ware's contract. Ratliff's contract, Spear's resigning. Olshansky's contract.

Everything else has been spare change.(which is why Canty left)

But again. The fact that Canty is the only player in recent history worth mentioning as a contract along our Defensive Line suggests not enough has been done to keep re-charging the talent through the draft.

Sorry to get on the beatbox. But your final point is another nail in Jerry's Coffin. We moved to the 3-4 and he thought a position he hadn't looked after effectively in a 3-4 was all of a sudden going to be a position of strength in a 4-3.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:13 AM    (permalink
E-Man
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From a pure product on the field standpoint, pocketaces does make plenty of valid points. I'm not a Jerry hater, but he has handicapped this team, specifically limiting our chances of success in Romo's prime years.

Horrible contract extensions, questionable coaching hires, the 2009 draft, drafting two defensive lineman in the top 3 rounds since ebenezur ekuban busted in 1999 (Spears and Crawford,) if you want to count Ware and Spencer that's still a pathetic number. Constantly building the team from outside in instead of inside out, the fundamental way to build a football team. Drafted two QBs since Aikman left, that's a joke.

I actually don't mind Jerry because I know he wants to win, but I really just don't think he gets it. A high school football coach knows everything I just said in the previous paragraph were horrible decisions, yet Jerry made them.

The biggest problem is the lack of emphasis on building the trenches, they don't build on strengths, and they don't think ahead. Look at the Panthers in last yrars draft. They went DT in the 1st two rounds and look what happened to their defense. The Cowboys would never do that. People wondered why we were so bad at running the ball for 5 years... They saw the results after they were forced to fix the OL, and hopefully the DL is so bad that they will have to use high picks on it.

TWO DEFENSIVE LINEMAN IN THE TOP 3 ROUNDS SINCE EBENEZUR EKUBAN IN 1999.... REALLY?!
They've drafted more than two D-linemen in the first three rounds since 1999. Here is who they drafted:

2001- Willie Blade in the 3rd
2005- Marcus Spears in the first
2006-Jason Hatcher in the 3rd
2012- Tyrone Crawford in the 3rd

This isn't counting Ware and Spencer in 2005 and 2007 who were converted defensive lineman needed for the 3-4. In between these years they had a big money FA signing in La'Roi Glover, a guy in Jason Ferguson that was supposed to be their NT before he got hurt, Canty as a 4th rounder, the Olshansky signing, and Ratliff as a 7th. They could have done better, but they have paid attention to the defensive line. Last year looks bad because they overestimated their two OLBs, but it's not as if they were completely ignoring the position. Hopefully things change this year.

Just for fun here are the positions that they've drafted in the top 3 rounds since 1999

QB-1
RB-3
FB-0
OL-8
TE-4(facepalm)
WR-3
DL-4
LB-8
CB-5
S-3

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Originally Posted by shane_man View Post
We have had success with ONE late round pick becoming a starter.

Otherwise we rode our luck with all the players Parcells drafted and signed. We haven't done anything worth noting to keep churning over players preferring to look at FA scrap heaps.

Which was why I LOOOOOOVED the selection of Crawford.(It's just sucked that he's been injured for two years)

The salary cap commitments are 2x Franchise Tag's. D.Ware's contract. Ratliff's contract, Spear's resigning. Olshansky's contract.

Everything else has been spare change.(which is why Canty left)

But again. The fact that Canty is the only player in recent history worth mentioning as a contract along our Defensive Line suggests not enough has been done to keep re-charging the talent through the draft.

Sorry to get on the beatbox. But your final point is another nail in Jerry's Coffin. We moved to the 3-4 and he thought a position he hadn't looked after effectively in a 3-4 was all of a sudden going to be a position of strength in a 4-3.
Canty left because some team was dumb enough to pay him Pro Bowl type money. The Cowboys definitely wanted to keep him, but he wasn't worth the huge contract that he got. He signed a six year, $42 million deal. He was pretty good, but that's top money at the position that he plays.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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As somebody noted earlier we have a Pro Bowl RB, WR, and TE. This past draft we drafted a RB, WR, and TE then watched our Defense become the worst in the entire NFL. Then I get beat up for questioning the regime and their roster building skills. I guess it's just me...
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:47 AM    (permalink
Trogdor
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*shrugs*

Landed a starting Center with pro-bowl potential. Home-run.
Landed a rookie WR who supplanted Miles as the #2 option. Home-run.
Whiffed badly (first year) on a TE who has the potential to replace Witten. 2 strikes.
Added a high potential small-school Safety who had an up-and-down year. 1 strike.
Took a chance on a pass-catching RB that can block limited year. Meh 1 ball 1 strike.

Can't complain too much when you have 2 home-runs in one draft. Yes it would have been nice for them to hit on every pick in the first year but not many teams ever do that let alone consistently.

Not a fan of the TE pick early. However after watching Witten regress 99% of the year I'm willing to give them a pass provided he develops as a blocker so we can actually start him -_-

Randle was excellent value. Considering Murray is never healthy not going to hate the pick.

Wilcox is a wait-and-see pick. He's a small school guy with a TON of ability. We absolutely need a starter at FS. Unless Matt Johnson is going to not only be HEALTHY for once but also play at a starter level...

If this in some way is looking for self-gratification keep in mind you were banging the Floyd drum pretty freaking hard while HATING Frederick/Williams and the trade. You were incredibly wrong on that front considering the non-existent 'value' the Vikings got on Floyd and the return Dallas got on Frederick and T-Will.

The draft is NOT about filling needs. The teams that fill needs in the draft consistently draft in the top 10. You draft for the future and get impact players. Dallas CERTAINLY needs a big hit on a defensive line and secondary guy. We have neglected it since the values haven't matched up and we had a rash of injuries last year. High hopes for Crawford.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:53 AM    (permalink
FreshBoy!
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Why am I not surprised Pocket is leading people into arguing about last years draft again?
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:04 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Why am I not surprised Pocket is leading people into arguing about last years draft again?
Apologies for feeding him. Just tired of the same old argument that we should be drafting players at needed positions. The only teams that do that are the Cleveland freaking Browns and Jacksonville. I hate the notion that we should emulate them rather than organizations like the Ravens and Patriots who aren't afraid to draft a guy who is instantly buried on the depth chart because they know he's an impact guy.

Meh. Dallas will do the same thing it always does. We'll get stop-gap veterans to fill the need spots and then draft the best "value". If you disagree with their "value" that's 100% appropriate to harass them about. Harassing them for not reaching for a need position is silly.

Was going to debate on Pryor since some of you are REALLY high on him but that's more of a scheme fit than a talent fit.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:20 PM    (permalink
pocketaces
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*shrugs*

Landed a starting Center with pro-bowl potential. Home-run.
Landed a rookie WR who supplanted Miles as the #2 option. Home-run.
Whiffed badly (first year) on a TE who has the potential to replace Witten. 2 strikes.
Added a high potential small-school Safety who had an up-and-down year. 1 strike.
Took a chance on a pass-catching RB that can block limited year. Meh 1 ball 1 strike.

Can't complain too much when you have 2 home-runs in one draft. Yes it would have been nice for them to hit on every pick in the first year but not many teams ever do that let alone consistently.

Not a fan of the TE pick early. However after watching Witten regress 99% of the year I'm willing to give them a pass provided he develops as a blocker so we can actually start him -_-

Randle was excellent value. Considering Murray is never healthy not going to hate the pick.

Wilcox is a wait-and-see pick. He's a small school guy with a TON of ability. We absolutely need a starter at FS. Unless Matt Johnson is going to not only be HEALTHY for once but also play at a starter level...

If this in some way is looking for self-gratification keep in mind you were banging the Floyd drum pretty freaking hard while HATING Frederick/Williams and the trade. You were incredibly wrong on that front considering the non-existent 'value' the Vikings got on Floyd and the return Dallas got on Frederick and T-Will.

The draft is NOT about filling needs. The teams that fill needs in the draft consistently draft in the top 10. You draft for the future and get impact players. Dallas CERTAINLY needs a big hit on a defensive line and secondary guy. We have neglected it since the values haven't matched up and we had a rash of injuries last year. High hopes for Crawford.
I did hate the value of the trade down. It didnt match up. Fredrick had a GREAT year. Like you said, Home Run. I did not build Dallas' draft board and if I did I wouldnt have had Floyd in my top 5 or ahead of Richardson or Star.
Some guys like to scream BPA then when we pass that guy up the excuses start rolling in. My beef wasnt passing on Floyd it was passing on THEIR BPA.

Williams is a good player but far from a HR. In fact if we woulndt have cut Holmes (who lit us up) and he wound up starting I doubt anybody would be talking about how passing up a 24 year old rookie was a mistake. I dont get how you cant draft for need AND get impact players? If we would have drafted Worford in the 2nd round would he not be considered an impact player that fit a need? You also made fun of me for posting that the coaches liked Heath over Wilcox, which turned out to be true. Hope the kid turns out to be a stud but thats not very encouraging. Yes we need to hit a "home run" in this draft, especially up front. Dont agree with the values not matching up, just hasnt been a priority IMO.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Apologies for feeding him. Just tired of the same old argument that we should be drafting players at needed positions. The only teams that do that are the Cleveland freaking Browns and Jacksonville. I hate the notion that we should emulate them rather than organizations like the Ravens and Patriots who aren't afraid to draft a guy who is instantly buried on the depth chart because they know he's an impact guy.

Meh. Dallas will do the same thing it always does. We'll get stop-gap veterans to fill the need spots and then draft the best "value". If you disagree with their "value" that's 100% appropriate to harass them about. Harassing them for not reaching for a need position is silly.

Was going to debate on Pryor since some of you are REALLY high on him but that's more of a scheme fit than a talent fit.
Funny. You act like other teams suck at drafting and their teams dont produce on the field, then act like the Dallas Freaking Cowboys know what they are doing and have the results to prove it. 18 years Bro. Its not working.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Why am I not surprised Pocket is leading people into arguing about last years draft again?
Rather talk about Romo?
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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I did hate the value of the trade down. It didnt match up. Fredrick had a GREAT year. Like you said, Home Run. I did not build Dallas' draft board and if I did I wouldnt have had Floyd in my top 5 or ahead of Richardson or Star.
Some guys like to scream BPA then when we pass that guy up the excuses start rolling in. My beef wasnt passing on Floyd it was passing on THEIR BPA.

Williams is a good player but far from a HR. In fact if we woulndt have cut Holmes (who lit us up) and he wound up starting I doubt anybody would be talking about how passing up a 24 year old rookie was a mistake. I dont get how you cant draft for need AND get impact players? If we would have drafted Worford in the 2nd round would he not be considered an impact player that fit a need? You also made fun of me for posting that the coaches liked Heath over Wilcox, which turned out to be true. Hope the kid turns out to be a stud but thats not very encouraging. Yes we need to hit a "home run" in this draft, especially up front. Dont agree with the values not matching up, just hasnt been a priority IMO.
Floyd was stated as an incident where the COACHING STAFF and the SCOUTING STAFF disagreed. Kiffin/Marinelli did not value him as highly as the scouts. I do agree it is strange for the board to be created without heavily consulting your defensive staff but this has been reported by multiple outlets. If anything it is absolutely AWFUL that we continue to leak our draft board. If we are like every other NFL franchise this is never an issue because no one would have known.

Value hasn't matched up on need positions hence we didn't touch them. Warford wasn't on our board. He supposedly had AWFUL recommendations from his coaching staff about being lazy as well as a well-documented weight issues. The fact he turned it after AFTER being drafted doesn't mean we should have known he was going to turn it around. In our interviews/discussions the team didn't trust him and the red flags amounted to him being tossed from the board. Every team in the league does this on a player-by-player basis. You can't simply look at talent and make a decision.

I didn't poke fun at you for Heath comments. I poked fun at HEATH. He was turrrrrable in pass coverage. I imagine the demotion for Wilcox stemmed from missing assignments in the running game. He's extremely raw and has a ton of potential but I would in no way endorse him being our starting right out of the gates.

I hate that we haven't had a talented FS in years. I hate it. That's why the talk about Pryor drives me nuts. He is yet another FS/SS hybrid in the exact same mold as Matt Johnson and J.J. Wilcox.

For once lets actually target someone who can man the middle of the field and diagnose and make plays.

Please? :)
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Congratulations, you sound just like Bob.

As you know he had a lot of fans, right? lol

Your definition of truth is telling everyone that the Cowboys will never win as long as the Jones family owns the Cowboys.

You blame Jerry for all Cowboys moves (which is fair) but don't acknowledge that he doesn't make most of the decisions. While he owns them as owner/gm of the team, he doesn't make most of them.

If you believe Jerry makes our draft picks and handles the signing of player contracts then you're stuck in history sir. Jerry says yes or no based on how well he's sold on the move.

Pocketaces, the dominator? The 3 things you're known for most is 1) Deflecting blame from Romom 2) Blaming Jerry for everything and 3) Wanting Shariff Floyd instead of TF and Williams.

You live in absolutes. I live in objectivity. When things are right, they are right. When things are wrong they are wrong.
So its fair for me to blame Jerry for all Cowboy moves (your words) but I need to acknowledge he doesnt make most of the decisions? Lol Oooook.

Jerry says yes or no based on how well hes sold on a move (again, your words) but hes not the decision maker? Im getting dumber by the minute.

D-Unit the 3 things your known best for 1) absolving all blame from Jerrah. 2) Blaming Romo for everything. 3) Claiming we drafted 3 first rounders in this past draft then blaming Jerrah when you get called on the carpet with that made up rhetoric. I live in a world that wants results. You live in a world where JJ can do no wrong and as long as we are 8-8 we always have a chance. Eyes wide shut.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Floyd was stated as an incident where the COACHING STAFF and the SCOUTING STAFF disagreed. Kiffin/Marinelli did not value him as highly as the scouts. I do agree it is strange for the board to be created without heavily consulting your defensive staff but this has been reported by multiple outlets. If anything it is absolutely AWFUL that we continue to leak our draft board. If we are like every other NFL franchise this is never an issue because no one would have known.

Value hasn't matched up on need positions hence we didn't touch them. Warford wasn't on our board. He supposedly had AWFUL recommendations from his coaching staff about being lazy as well as a well-documented weight issues. The fact he turned it after AFTER being drafted doesn't mean we should have known he was going to turn it around. In our interviews/discussions the team didn't trust him and the red flags amounted to him being tossed from the board. Every team in the league does this on a player-by-player basis. You can't simply look at talent and make a decision.

I didn't poke fun at you for Heath comments. I poked fun at HEATH. He was turrrrrable in pass coverage. I imagine the demotion for Wilcox stemmed from missing assignments in the running game. He's extremely raw and has a ton of potential but I would in no way endorse him being our starting right out of the gates.

I hate that we haven't had a talented FS in years. I hate it. That's why the talk about Pryor drives me nuts. He is yet another FS/SS hybrid in the exact same mold as Matt Johnson and J.J. Wilcox.

For once lets actually target someone who can man the middle of the field and diagnose and make plays.

Please? :)
I agree with 99% of your post. :)
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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BTW the reports of a new guy building our draft board were untrue according to Jerry

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/...as-draft-board

Quote:
"No. Thatís Ciskowski."

"Tom will continue to be the guy that we look to that is ultimately the manager of the board."
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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They've drafted more than two D-linemen in the first three rounds since 1999. Here is who they drafted:

2001- Willie Blade in the 3rd
2005- Marcus Spears in the first
2006-Jason Hatcher in the 3rd
2012- Tyrone Crawford in the 3rd

This isn't counting Ware and Spencer in 2005 and 2007 who were converted defensive lineman needed for the 3-4. In between these years they had a big money FA signing in La'Roi Glover, a guy in Jason Ferguson that was supposed to be their NT before he got hurt, Canty as a 4th rounder, the Olshansky signing, and Ratliff as a 7th. They could have done better, but they have paid attention to the defensive line. Last year looks bad because they overestimated their two OLBs, but it's not as if they were completely ignoring the position. Hopefully things change this year.

Just for fun here are the positions that they've drafted in the top 3 rounds since 1999

QB-1
RB-3
FB-0
OL-8
TE-4(facepalm)
WR-3
DL-4
LB-8
CB-5
S-3



Canty left because some team was dumb enough to pay him Pro Bowl type money. The Cowboys definitely wanted to keep him, but he wasn't worth the huge contract that he got. He signed a six year, $42 million deal. He was pretty good, but that's top money at the position that he plays.
Awesome post E-Man! Took some effort to put that together.

Between the money spent on Ware, Spencer, Ratliff, 3 of our most highly paid players... add in Hatcher, Crawford... the DL wasn't exactly "ignored". If someone told me Hatcher would have a career year, Selvie would emerge as a legitimate starter and Hayden would prove himself to be fairly solid in the run, I would've thought our DL would've been one of the best strengths on the team! Injury ravaged us BADLY. Spencer and Crawford didn't play a down, Ratliff did a nice fake job (worthy of getting sued), Ware had 4 sacks in 3 games before playing through pain the rest of the way...

This year will be interesting. If Spencer and Hatcher leave, then we will have less salary invested into the DL. The question is how do we go forward? Do we fill it with big investments and continue to have shallow depth or do we do smaller investments and try to have better depth? I know some folks want big time starters and jaw dropping depth, but that's not a reality.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I agree with 99% of your post. :)
Wait... you actually got it this time???
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Wait... you actually got it this time???
The fact that our coaching staff and scouts disagreed and put together a board without the staffs input? Yes. That its strange? Yes. That its awful we (JJ?) let our draft board leak (more than once) Yes. That Worford wasnt a "RKG" yes. Was that a mistake? Yes. Did value match up with positions of need? IDK but I question our rankings. That Heath was Turrrrable? Yes. That most hate we dont have a FS? Yes. That we would like to draft one that has ball skills and isnt a SS type? Yes. Did I miss something?
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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It's not enough to just have good starters on the defensive line... That's more the problem in my eyes. Look at Seattle's front with Red Bryant, Michael Bennett, Chris Clemons, Bruce Irvin, Brandon Mebane, etc. - they go two deep and they're always going full speed at the QB. The Giants Super Bowl runs were built around the same thing as well as the Cowboys in the 90s. You never can have enough disruption of the opposing QB.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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So its fair for me to blame Jerry for all Cowboy moves (your words) but I need to acknowledge he doesnt make most of the decisions? Lol Oooook.

Jerry says yes or no based on how well hes sold on a move (again, your words) but hes not the decision maker? Im getting dumber by the minute.

D-Unit the 3 things your known best for 1) absolving all blame from Jerrah. 2) Blaming Romo for everything. 3) Claiming we drafted 3 first rounders in this past draft then blaming Jerrah when you get called on the carpet with that made up rhetoric. I live in a world that wants results. You live in a world where JJ can do no wrong and as long as we are 8-8 we always have a chance. Eyes wide shut.
I know comprehension is difficult when you are frustrated. So let me try to explain it to you...

Let's talk about things as they are today, because it would be silly to say things haven't changed over the years.

The bottom line is it's Jerry's money so he will want to have the last say in how it's spent. Thus, you are fair in pointing blame or calling him the decision maker. But I think you get confused on "decision maker" so to clarify, what I mean is he is the "FINAL decision maker".

BUT! He is not the decision maker in decisions like forming the draft board (scouts), deciding who to pick (we give a great deal of credit to the coaching staff), and dealing with player contracts (Stephen). These guys do the work and come up with the "decisions" to go a specific direction.

If they do a good job of selling Jerry on the idea then the answer is yes. In the end, it's Jerry's FINAL decision.

If I am wrong on any of these accounts, then I would love if you or anyone else can clear that up for me. It may not be that way for every scenario, but in a nutshell, that's the generalization that I have of the way things are TODAY.

-------------

As for me not blaming Jerry for anything that's confusing because I certainly recall bashing him for Rob Ryan's firing, Monte Kiffin's hiring and Jason Garrett as HC (which I'm often going back and forth on). Or do you not recall any of that?

Blaming Romo for everything? Oh jeez. I blame Romo for mistakes that are his to own. You just can't handle ANY criticism. You live in absolutes, so one criticism = everything to you. I made one "obligatory - man crush" mock with us taking Johnny Manziel, but other than that, it's been pretty clear where I think our team weaknesses are. There has been absolutely NO other talk of any other QB from me.

THIS is where I stand on Romo.... He's a tough, competivitve QB but he doesn't do enough to put him into the elite category because he only goes as far as his surrounding cast can take him. Still a very good QB, definitely not the biggest weakness on the team, but his stats are often a product of the high passing offense we run.

You and I feel the same way about Romo. We both agree that he needs a better supporting cast.

...and I never claimed that we drafted 3 1st rounders in TF, Escobar and Williams. Those weren't my grades for them. I quoted Jerry's words on what HE thought of them. I don't own his words, he does. This is why people tell you that you have a problem treating posters here like they are Jerry.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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It's not enough to just have good starters on the defensive line... That's more the problem in my eyes. Look at Seattle's front with Red Bryant, Michael Bennett, Chris Clemons, Bruce Irvin, Brandon Mebane, etc. - they go two deep and they're always going full speed at the QB. The Giants Super Bowl runs were built around the same thing as well as the Cowboys in the 90s. You never can have enough disruption of the opposing QB.
Most of the time, this is not possible to accomplish in one offseason. I would say almost impossible when you are losing a Franchise Tagged player (Spencer) and the best performing DL (Hatcher) that you had last season... AND have no money to spend in FA.

I think fortunately for us however, that we are kind of set up better for next season because we know what we have in terms of depth because of the early injuries. Spencer's injury allowed Selvie to step in and step up. Hayden also performed well as a starter and if he's asked to step back and come off the bench that will be another strong depth player for us. With Crawford and Bass coming back, there is hope there in terms of depth.

We have a chance to address DL in a draft class that is deep with DL talent. So if we make the right moves, I like our chances to improve that unit right away.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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It's not enough to just have good starters on the defensive line... That's more the problem in my eyes. Look at Seattle's front with Red Bryant, Michael Bennett, Chris Clemons, Bruce Irvin, Brandon Mebane, etc. - they go two deep and they're always going full speed at the QB. The Giants Super Bowl runs were built around the same thing as well as the Cowboys in the 90s. You never can have enough disruption of the opposing QB.
Hopefully we can start to build on this now if the organization is smart here. You had some decent street FA's come in an make some plays this season on the Dline. You hold onto a couple of them. You draft well adding some starters early and some additional depth in the later rounds, all on the defensive side of the ball. It's gotta start now.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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The thing is the Wade years left A LOT of holes. I mean we can really hammer on the D-Line obviously, but there's a litany of issues that we were worrying about just a few years ago. The O-Line looks to be a strength, running game much improved
You guys remember the run of games against the Steelers/Broncos/Ravens a few years ago where 3rd/4th and 1 caused MAJOR issues??

I mean hindsight is 20/20, and we can all say "Well the D-line is still a issue", but the team HAS improved(despite the record not showing it). You're seeing teams like the Giants have what the Cowboys had in '10/11, with an aging o-line that isn't giving Eli any time. We can pick at some of the picks obviously(Escobar), but the team has drafted pretty decently. You again look to the Giants and the DL is aging or overrated, the O-line is old and BAD...RB's haven't developed...LBer's nonexistent(they really don't need dominate Lb'ers in their scheme).


The Cowboys have a lot of pieces I believe...just have to put it together.
The secondary has the pieces to be dominate(if only we used them incorrectly).

Receivers and QB are not an issue obviously....

All that's to say, YES there are issues, but to see the team being rebuilt and still be within a game of the playoffs the last 3 years has to be somewhat impressive no?

I'm conflicted because teams like San Fran, Seattle, Carolina, etc are all looking to be powerhouses, but they had to BOTTOM OUT to build up. There's something to say about being competitive in the midst of a rebuild...or am I rambling and crazy?

Not sure if I wouldn't of preferred to have bottom out one of the last 3 years, but I'm not upset at being competitive. This has been a rebuild...Jerry will never say that because he want you guys to spend your money...but last year and this upcoming year is the "show me years"....JG's got to earn his worth.

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Old 01-21-2014, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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The thing is the Wade years left A LOT of holes. I mean we can really hammer on the D-Line obviously, but there's a litany of issues that we were worrying about just a few years ago. The O-Line looks to be a strength, running game much improved
You guys remember the run of games against the Steelers/Broncos/Ravens a few years ago where 3rd/4th and 1 caused MAJOR issues??

I mean hindsight is 20/20, and we can all say "Well the D-line is still a issue", but the team HAS improved(despite the record not showing it). You're seeing teams like the Giants have what the Cowboys had in '10/11, with an aging o-line that isn't giving Eli any time.

The secondary has the pieces to be dominate(if only we used them correctly).

Receivers and QB are not an issue obviously....

All that's to say, YES there are issues, but to see the team being rebuilt and still be within a game of the playoffs the last 3 years has to be somewhat impressive no?

I'm conflicted because teams like San Fran, Seattle, Carolina, etc are all looking to be powerhouses, but they had to BOTTOM OUT to build out. There's something to say about being competitive in the midst of a rebuild...or am I rambling and crazy?
I am with you. I would waaaaaaay rather be in Week 17 win or go home games than the dark ages of the Dave Campo era. 3 seasons of 5-11.

Noticing how important our HC is for the draft is actually quite stunning.

Garrett:
2013: 8-8
2012: 8-8
2011: 8-8

Phillips:
2010: 6-10
2009: 11-6
2008: 9-7
2007: 13-3

Parcells:
2006: 9-7
2005: 9-7
2004: 6-10
2003: 10-6

Campo:
2002: 5-11
2001: 5-11
2000: 5-11

Gailey:
1999: 8-8
1998: 10-6

Switzer:
1997: 6-10
1996: 10-6
1995: 12-4
1994: 12-4

Johnson:
1993: 12-4
1992: 13-3
1991: 11-5
1990: 7-9
1989: 1-15
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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And another hit to the D-line that people overlook is the whole Josh Brent situation. He was looking like a real stud in his spot duty. Man o man the line has been ravaged with injuries, drunk driving, and bastards named Jay Ratliff.

And I know nobody wants to give Jerry Jones any credit, but if you look back at things without injury the Dline really could've been a strength. Imagine looking at the following a year and a half ago.
Crawford, Hatcher, Ware, Spencer, Ben Bass, Caesar Rayford, Ratliff, Wilber(who's playing LB now), Josh Brent.

Not even including the FA pickups like Selvie, Hayden...

That's a good mix of vets and young talent.

Things don't always work out, but I don't think Jerry the GM was that far off in his thinking that health wasn't going to decimate the defense AGAIN.

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Old 01-21-2014, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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The thing is the Wade years left A LOT of holes. I mean we can really hammer on the D-Line obviously, but there's a litany of issues that we were worrying about just a few years ago. The O-Line looks to be a strength, running game much improved
You guys remember the run of games against the Steelers/Broncos/Ravens a few years ago where 3rd/4th and 1 caused MAJOR issues??

I mean hindsight is 20/20, and we can all say "Well the D-line is still a issue", but the team HAS improved(despite the record not showing it). You're seeing teams like the Giants have what the Cowboys had in '10/11, with an aging o-line that isn't giving Eli any time. We can pick at some of the picks obviously(Escobar), but the team has drafted pretty decently. You again look to the Giants and the DL is aging or overrated, the O-line is old and BAD...RB's haven't developed...LBer's nonexistent(they really don't need dominate Lb'ers in their scheme).


The Cowboys have a lot of pieces I believe...just have to put it together.
The secondary has the pieces to be dominate(if only we used them incorrectly).

Receivers and QB are not an issue obviously....

All that's to say, YES there are issues, but to see the team being rebuilt and still be within a game of the playoffs the last 3 years has to be somewhat impressive no?

I'm conflicted because teams like San Fran, Seattle, Carolina, etc are all looking to be powerhouses, but they had to BOTTOM OUT to build up. There's something to say about being competitive in the midst of a rebuild...or am I rambling and crazy?

Not sure if I wouldn't of preferred to have bottom out one of the last 3 years, but I'm not upset at being competitive. This has been a rebuild...Jerry will never say that because he want you guys to spend your money...but last year and this upcoming year is the "show me years"....JG's got to earn his worth.
I agree the O-line has improved, however do you trust Free to be last years Free or is there a chance hes Free from 2 years ago? Do you trust MB or do you think we need an upgrade? Do you draft a replacement before or after Leary's knee goes out? Also keep in mind we played some of the worst D's in the league this year. Next year is going to be a lot tougher. I dont think JJ or the coaches feel like they are in a rebuild. You said yourself we are only 1 game away from the playoffs. If its me, Im drafting another Guard along with a Defensive heavy draft.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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And another hit to the D-line that people overlook is the whole Josh Brent situation. He was looking like a real stud in his spot duty. Man o man the line has been ravaged with injuries, drunk driving, and bastards named Jay Ratliff.

And I know nobody wants to give Jerry Jones any credit, but if you look back at things without injury the Dline really could've been a strength. Imagine looking at the following a year and a half ago.
Crawford, Hatcher, Ware, Spencer, Ben Bass, Caesar Rayford, Ratliff, Wilber(who's playing LB now), Josh Brent.

Not even including the FA pickups like Selvie, Hayden...

That's a good mix of vets and young talent.

Things don't always work out, but I don't think Jerry the GM was that far off in his thinking that health wasn't going to decimate the defense AGAIN.
They knew about Brent before the draft. Rat has been declining every year and coming off injury. Crawford was unproven, Ware and Spencer were changing positions and Spencer was on a 1 year deal. Ware was coming off an injury and is over 30. The FA's werent part of the team when we drafted either. When guys are 30+ and coming off injuries I dont know why it would be a shock to see it happen again.
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