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Old 01-21-2014, 05:08 PM    (permalink
FreshBoy!
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Originally Posted by pocketaces View Post
They knew about Brent before the draft. Rat has been declining every year and coming off injury. Crawford was unproven, Ware and Spencer were changing positions and Spencer was on a 1 year deal. Ware was coming off an injury and is over 30. The FA's werent part of the team when we drafted either. When guys are 30+ and coming off injuries I dont know why it would be a shock to see it happen again.
Obviously this is all true....which is why I said a year and a half ago, and that hindsight is 20/20.

Last years draft was good. They didn't draft D-Line. Deal with it.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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I agree the O-line has improved, however do you trust Free to be last years Free or is there a chance hes Free from 2 years ago? Do you trust MB or do you think we need an upgrade? Do you draft a replacement before or after Leary's knee goes out? Also keep in mind we played some of the worst D's in the league this year. Next year is going to be a lot tougher. I dont think JJ or the coaches feel like they are in a rebuild. You said yourself we are only 1 game away from the playoffs. If its me, Im drafting another Guard along with a Defensive heavy draft.
Gotta weigh it all out. Including taking a look at who the FAs are going to be and how well we can manage our cap and prepare for the future.

As much as we love comparing our team to teams like SEA and SF... those 2 teams got away playing their franchise QB at minimal cost. Even Richard Sherman only cost $500K this year? Ridiculous. No wonder they have good depth elsewhere. Let's see where they are when they have to fork out $100M dollar contracts to their QBs.

Drafts are so important... It can't just be about need. You have to have an eye to the future and it's almost critical to hit on mid to late picks no matter what position they are. If you hit on them, they you help yourself with managing the cap.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I agree the O-line has improved, however do you trust Free to be last years Free or is there a chance hes Free from 2 years ago? Do you trust MB or do you think we need an upgrade? Do you draft a replacement before or after Leary's knee goes out? Also keep in mind we played some of the worst D's in the league this year. Next year is going to be a lot tougher. I dont think JJ or the coaches feel like they are in a rebuild. You said yourself we are only 1 game away from the playoffs. If its me, Im drafting another Guard along with a Defensive heavy draft.
I'm with you on grabbing a guard, either in the 3rd or 4th.
Go Dline 1 an 2 grab a safety or guard in 3 or 4. 5 maybe a Wr. And then the last 3 hit more defensive line depth.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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[quote=D-Unit;3552506]I know comprehension is difficult when you are frustrated. So let me try to explain it to you...
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I admit I am VERY frustrated
Let's talk about things as they are today, because it would be silly to say things haven't changed over the years.

The bottom line is it's Jerry's money so he will want to have the last say in how it's spent. Thus, you are fair in pointing blame or calling him the decision maker. But I think you get confused on "decision maker" so to clarify, what I mean is he is the "FINAL decision maker".

BUT! He is not the decision maker in decisions like forming the draft board (scouts), deciding who to pick (we give a great deal of credit to the coaching staff), and dealing with player contracts (Stephen). These guys do the work and come up with the "decisions" to go a specific direction.

If they do a good job of selling Jerry on the idea then the answer is yes. In the end, it's Jerry's FINAL decision.

If I am wrong on any of these accounts, then I would love if you or anyone else can clear that up for me. It may not be that way for every scenario, but in a nutshell, that's the generalization that I have of the way things are TODAY.
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So you say Jerry hires the coaches and then takes their thoughts and ideas into the draft room. So hes got the scouts in one ear and the coaches in the other. Is that productive? Also if hes giving all that power to the coaches, what kind of grade do you give him for those hires?[/QUOTE]
-------------

As for me not blaming Jerry for anything that's confusing because I certainly recall bashing him for Rob Ryan's firing, Monte Kiffin's hiring and Jason Garrett as HC (which I'm often going back and forth on). Or do you not recall any of that?
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Yes I remember. Seems coaching hires is the only thing you might blame him for.
Blaming Romo for everything? Oh jeez. I blame Romo for mistakes that are his to own. You just can't handle ANY criticism. You live in absolutes, so one criticism = everything to you. I made one "obligatory - man crush" mock with us taking Johnny Manziel, but other than that, it's been pretty clear where I think our team weaknesses are. There has been absolutely NO other talk of any other QB from me.
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I can handle criticism when its justified. Not when some say hes the reason we go 8-8 every year (not saying you)
THIS is where I stand on Romo.... He's a tough, competivitve QB but he doesn't do enough to put him into the elite category because he only goes as far as his surrounding cast can take him. Still a very good QB, definitely not the biggest weakness on the team, but his stats are often a product of the high passing offense we run.
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Top 10 IMO
You and I feel the same way about Romo. We both agree that he needs a better supporting cast.
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Agreed but you claim it has to be "perfect" in order for him to win. I disagree with that assessment.
...and I never claimed that we drafted 3 1st rounders in TF, Escobar and Williams. Those weren't my grades for them. I quoted Jerry's words on what HE thought of them. I don't own his words, he does. This is why people tell you that you have a problem treating posters here like they are Jerry.
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I never read where Jerry said that. I read what you posted which was "off their own board, then give them props because they gave Frederick, Escobar and Williams all 1st round grades. Applause???" When I called BS on it YOU said Jerrah said it.
Answers in bold
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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This is gonna go on an on between you two isn't it? Just let it go an let's move on. Cmon we have two things that aren't going to change any time soon. JJ and Romo, let's just try to focus on what we think the organization needs to do to move forward in the right direction and stop looking back at things that are over.

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Old 01-21-2014, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Need a tackle too.

And WR.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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Obviously this is all true....which is why I said a year and a half ago, and that hindsight is 20/20.

Last years draft was good. They didn't draft D-Line. Deal with it.
Takes forsight not hindsight. I dealt with it all year watching 30+ being scored weekly.
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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This is gonna go on an on between you two isn't it? Just let it go an let's move on. Cmon we have two things that aren't going to change any time soon. JJ and Romo, let's just try to focus on what we think the organization needs to do to move forward in the right direction and stop looking back at things that are over.
2DTs, 2DEs. RT, 2 Guards, a FS, 2LBs, would be a good start.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Pocket, your last post was not easy to quote and respond to so you won't see it here, but in response...

I think Jerry is all over the place on his HC selections. Currently, I think it's fair to bring Jason back. He hasn't had a losing season yet and we seem to be a few bad luck reasons away from reaching the playoffs. I also think consistency can be good for the squad that we currently have. I like Jason's drafts so far and if he pulls off another good one this year, I think we can get over the hump.

As for the collaborative draft process, I don't love it it, but I think it's our best strategy for us so long as Jerry wants to be the one to "get the credit". Letting the football guys come up with the suggestions is better than letting Jerry come up with the suggestions. (Oh no! I criticized Jerry again... lol) Ideally, you want a GM who scouts, trades, manages cap, and has a vision... but that's not a guaranteed method for success either. So how we run things is fine by me. We've had enough success to know that when Jerry is surrounded by good football minds that we can come away successful, so that is always my hope for us.

I don't think things have to be "perfect" for Romo. I thought Leary and Bernadeau did a fine enough job on the OL even though that unit isn't "perfect". YOU are the one that says things have to be perfect not only in the starting line up but also our depth has to be very good. You ALWAYS say stuff like that. Pot calling the kettle black? Ummmhmm...

YOU tell ME where things around Romo don't have to be perfect! I'd LOVE to hear your answer to that!

...and lastly... pretty sure it was Trog who confirmed that Jerry's words about TF, Escobar and Williams having 1st round grades was just "Jerry talk". That should've confirmed to you that Jerry indeed put out there. I didn't make it up. I'm sure others here can remember it as well as it was talked about when he said it at the time.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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Josh Brent found guilty of intoxication manslaughter. Facing up to 20 years...
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:52 AM    (permalink
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Josh Brent found guilty of intoxication manslaughter. Facing up to 20 years...
Good riddance. The judge better not pity him for being rich either.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:47 AM    (permalink
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Canty left because some team was dumb enough to pay him Pro Bowl type money. The Cowboys definitely wanted to keep him, but he wasn't worth the huge contract that he got. He signed a six year, $42 million deal. He was pretty good, but that's top money at the position that he plays.
The team that signed him has about four billion DL signed up. What are the Giants doing right that we aren't?
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:46 AM    (permalink
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The team that signed him has about four billion DL signed up. What are the Giants doing right that we aren't?
I'm not sure if overpaying for canty is a sign of doing things right. But they do seem to concentrate more on that position than we do, hopefully this draft changes that.

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Old 01-23-2014, 07:03 AM    (permalink
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They also allowed their OL to become greybeards and one of the worst units in the league.

Sooo...there's that when comparing. I don't think they're necessarily doing things "right". They've been a pretty mediocre team outside of two miraculous SB wins...which obviously trumps all...
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:34 AM    (permalink
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They also allowed their OL to become greybeards and one of the worst units in the league.

Sooo...there's that when comparing. I don't think they're necessarily doing things "right". They've been a pretty mediocre team outside of two miraculous SB wins...which obviously trumps all...
So did we... Or does no one remember the fact that we had to start from Scratch with our O-Line and are only now coming out the other side.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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That's my point...everyone points to the Giants as a team that builds from the inside out, that they concentrate on picking up OL/DL and building through the draft...and they've faltered in that recently where the Boys have succeeded under Garrett(At least on the OL). Even the Giants DL hasn't been a significant strength recently. Blame injuries, FA, and age for that...(JPP, Kiwi, Osi)..but still...Neither side has been a particular strength outside of their SB runs.

It's also a huge misconception in comparison because I read a recent article that basically shows that the Cowboys have acquired more OL/DL players via draft & FA than the Giants and a few other teams that are known for "Building from within".

You can obviously draw conclusions based off of that data in anyway you want. Shows we're not great at developing drafted trench players, or knowing what FA's to go after. That's a Jerry the GM issue...and Pocket will be in here any moment pointing that out. I agree he's been terrible assessing talent in the trenches. He's still thrown currency at both sides of the line, both in draft picks and FA. It just hasn't worked out obviously.

The point i"m making that it's pretty non-factual that the Cowboys don't think highly of the trenches. It's just one of those "things" that people believe that are rarely based on facts. Like Romo being a choke artist despite him being mostly successful in those situations.

All that to say...I guess that's my "hope", in that under Garrett they've concentrated on the trenches, specifically OL, and were able to build a decent line from scratch, and hopefully will continue to do so on the defensive side.

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Old 01-23-2014, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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The team that signed him has about four billion DL signed up. What are the Giants doing right that we aren't?
They had a good idea to build their D-line, but it goes beyond that. They also built their secondary as well, and before recently their O-line was pretty good. The DL is just one piece of the puzzle with them. Like Jas said, overpaying for Canty is a sign of them overdoing it instead of focusing elsewhere. Looking at how their O-line is in shambles you could argue that they could have spent money fixing that rather than pay so much for Canty. I don't know how true it would be because I don't keep up with the Giants' salary cap the way I do with the 'Boys, but I don't think it's ever a good thing to pay elite money to someone who hasn't shown that they can be elite. Sadly I think that this might be a lesson learned with Carr, but that was more the market dictating that he be paid highly. Even still I am thinking that his contract will hurt more in the long run if he stays inconsistent the way he did last year.

Oh yeah. Another thing the Giants do better is that they have a better coach. Coughlin is an unnecessary hard ass sometimes, but he's better than Garrett. I don't like to be ******** on JG so often, but he is the main reason why this team is a mediocre 8-8 every year. His coaching decisions have been a bane that is breaking the back of the Cowboys' potential. The venom of the team is not fully in the poor players, but rather the man who doesn't put the guys in position to win games...


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Old 01-23-2014, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Resigned Dan Bailey through 2020....our best signing of the offseason was just made.

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On Thursday, the Cowboys officially signed Bailey through the 2020 season, giving the kicker a six-year contract extension. Bailey was set to become a restricted free agent this year but the Cowboys bypassed all of that, giving him a deal that will pay Bailey a little more than $3.3 million per season. This deal makes Bailey the fifth-highest paid kicker in the NFL.

But the length of the contract will likely help the Cowboys keep his salary cap figure down for a few years, allowing them to have some wiggle room for other players.


Bailey has been a model of consistency the last three years. He made the last 21 field goals of this season and finished the year 28 of 30, including six of seven from 50 yards or more. He made a game-winner against the Giants, giving him seven for his three-year career.

Bailey also improved his kickoffs dramatically in 2013, tying for fourth in the NFL with 52.
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/ar...8-03f2c26c1cd4
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:22 PM    (permalink
FreshBoy!
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Great signing....literally the only cowboy I can without question count on to do his part(if given an opportunity) to win a game in the last 2 minutes.

Unless he's iced by his own coach.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:30 PM    (permalink
E-Man
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Bailey has been awesome. I'm glad they have him locked up. All should be well with him as long as he doesn't get hurt like Nick Folk did. Bailey is straight money at this point.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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"You always have to be open to that," Jones said. "Yeah, and whether it’s a guy ultimately one day, your future, even if its at some point it enables you to not have a better (more expensive) backup, that saves you money if you’re able to get on a guy like that, so we’re always open to it."

GO GET MANZIEL!
(kidding.....kinda).


Wouldn't be upset at David Carr's little brother Derek in the later rounds though. If they're able to pick up a 3rd by trading out of 17 to the mid 20's....
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Happy! Happy! ....so long as Bailey doesn't pull a Doug Free. :/
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FreshBoy! View Post
"You always have to be open to that," Jones said. "Yeah, and whether it’s a guy ultimately one day, your future, even if its at some point it enables you to not have a better (more expensive) backup, that saves you money if you’re able to get on a guy like that, so we’re always open to it."

GO GET MANZIEL!
(kidding.....kinda).


Wouldn't be upset at David Carr's little brother Derek in the later rounds though. If they're able to pick up a 3rd by trading out of 17 to the mid 20's....
I hate you ... kinda.


Guy I'm eyeing is another Eastern Illinois alum. :P I mocked him to us before he was "discovered" by the media :( Jimmy Garoppolo is now sitting as a 2nd rounder according to CBS if he slips I would LOVE if he slipped and we picked him up in the 3rd/4th to develop and let us cut Orton after next year.

This definitely would be the year I take a mid-to-late round pick on a QB to hopefully develop into something so we don't have to spend a first in the future on the position.
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I have no clue what Bortles is all about. Has a funny name though. Sounds like a Pokemon.


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Old 01-23-2014, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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I hate you ... kinda.


Guy I'm eyeing is another Eastern Illinois alum. :P I mocked him to us before he was "discovered" by the media :( Jimmy Garoppolo is now sitting as a 2nd rounder according to CBS if he slips I would LOVE if he slipped and we picked him up in the 3rd/4th to develop and let us cut Orton after next year.

This definitely would be the year I take a mid-to-late round pick on a QB to hopefully develop into something so we don't have to spend a first in the future on the position.
I don't know what it is about you and these QB's with Pokemon names. First Bortles and now Garoppolo!
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:27 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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I don't know what it is about you and these QB's with Pokemon names. First Bortles and now Garoppolo!
He's an excellent QB prospect. I mean when you get unsolicited comments like this during the regular season from a coach who doesn't play in your conference...

Quote:
Ohio State coach Urban Meyer, who watched Garoppolo on film while preparing for the Buckeyes' 42-7 win over San Diego State (which lost to Eastern Illinois 40-19 in Week 1) on Sept. 7, said: "Eastern has really one of the best quarterbacks I've ever seen. I didn't even know who he was until I watched him. He's a great player."
I also love a lot of things about Tony Romo's game and Garoppolo embodies a lot of the good qualities... Per CBS

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COMPARES TO: Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys - The comparison goes beyond coming from the same college program. Both lack elite physical skills, but are productive due to their timing, smarts and quick release to get the ball out.
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I have no clue what Bortles is all about. Has a funny name though. Sounds like a Pokemon.


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