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Old 02-11-2014, 07:41 PM    (permalink
E-Man
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
He can already be cut for massive savings. Actually, that idea starts this offseason.

http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Te...boys&Year=2014



Just playing Devil's advocate here...

Cutting Ware or letting Hatcher go... either move leaves us thin on the DL. I wouldn't say one makes us thinner than the other. We need to spend a 1st rounder on either one who leaves and then continue to address it some more.

Secondly, there is not really a huge cap hit since cutting him actually saves us $7.5M right away. Keeping him will cost $16M. If we cut him before June 1st, then we take on $8.5M in dead money but we're freed of anything else after that.

The savings could help out a lot. We could use that to keep Hatcher and Spencer.

We keep a player who can still produce versus one in decline and crazy expensive.

Just sayin'...
What about if he is cut next year instead? I ask because Hatcher would cost a lot of money, and I don't think that the dead money from Ware along with the new money from Hatch will make up for it. It seems like trading one problem for another. Eventually they would have to deal with Hatcher having a contract that's hard to cut, and then they're at square one. If they were going to cut Ware I'd rather them let Hatcher walk too. The only thing that scares me is how poorly the d-line was because of the injuries. I'm not a fan of letting anyone walk right now if they don't have to. I'd rather them gear up for next year if Ware's contract is more cut or trade friendly then. That way they're in a better position with a rebuilt line to move on forward.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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What about if he is cut next year instead? I ask because Hatcher would cost a lot of money, and I don't think that the dead money from Ware along with the new money from Hatch will make up for it. It seems like trading one problem for another. Eventually they would have to deal with Hatcher having a contract that's hard to cut, and then they're at square one. If they were going to cut Ware I'd rather them let Hatcher walk too. The only thing that scares me is how poorly the d-line was because of the injuries. I'm not a fan of letting anyone walk right now if they don't have to. I'd rather them gear up for next year if Ware's contract is more cut or trade friendly then. That way they're in a better position with a rebuilt line to move on forward.
Check it out.

http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=DeMarcus Ware&Position=34OLB&Team=Cowboys

We paid Ware $8M last season. Are we really going to pay him $16M next season?

If we cut him after next season then his Dead Money is about $5M. $3M difference between cutting him now vs next season. Pretty insignificant if you ask me.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Check it out.

http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=DeMarcus Ware&Position=34OLB&Team=Cowboys

We paid Ware $8M last season. Are we really going to pay him $16M next season?

If we cut him after next season then his Dead Money is about $5M. $3M difference between cutting him now vs next season. Pretty insignificant if you ask me.
The dead money isn't the only issue. Cutting Ware and not having a plan for a replacement is a good way of tanking the year. We STRUGGLED to get any pressure last year and cutting Ware would mean we wouldn't have any our two best pass rushers from last year retained.

I would honestly expect a partial restructure with the view that if he returns to elite form he'll stick around. If he performs badly the money would be manageable and probably split between the two seasons after this (June 1st cut of next year).
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I also feel pretty certain that a guy like Donald can more than adequately replace hatcher, but if spencer and Ware are gone, now you need to hit on two DE's in the draft to replace them.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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Trade Ware to the Raiders for a Second Round pick(or three second round picks).
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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Trade Ware to the Raiders for a Second Round pick(or three second round picks).
That would be a good deal, but poor Ware. I don't know if I'd want to see his career killed out in Oakland.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:51 AM    (permalink
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The dead money isn't the only issue. Cutting Ware and not having a plan for a replacement is a good way of tanking the year. We STRUGGLED to get any pressure last year and cutting Ware would mean we wouldn't have any our two best pass rushers from last year retained.

I would honestly expect a partial restructure with the view that if he returns to elite form he'll stick around. If he performs badly the money would be manageable and probably split between the two seasons after this (June 1st cut of next year).
My heart is tied to Ware so I want him to stick around and return to form even if we have to dish out the cash.

But as I continue to play devil's advocate, say we draft Kony Ealy, resign Spencer and give Hatcher a reasonable extension. With Crawford returning, Selvie continuing his development... Hayden, Bass, Wynn to rotate in... we'll have a decent line to work with and the rest of the draft to beef it up.

DE Ealy / Selvie
UT Crawford / Draft / Bass
NT Hatcher / Hayden / Wynn
DE Spencer / Selvie

Or Donald and someone like Demarcus Lawrence later...

DE Selvie / Lawrence
UT Donald / Crawford
NT Hatcher / Hayden
DE Spencer / Lawrence

Many options out there... things to think about
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:54 AM    (permalink
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Trade Ware to the Raiders for a Second Round pick(or three second round picks).
Oakland is the graveyard for former Cowboys isn't it?

I never was clear on what happens to players when they are traded? Does their base salary go, but we still owe the bonus? I remember someone saying something about that being the reason we can't trade Romo.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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Something I was thinking about since players give you maximum effort in contract years, especially evident on the cowboys(spencer, hatch) with two players in particular Carter and Murray facing that situation this season, it will be interesting to see how that motivation plays out, barring injury you know Murray will be bringing it. I wonder what we'll see from Carter, this will be make or break for him.

Other big question marks and things to look forward to for me is what to expect from Crawford(where they play him and what type of impact he makes) and can Claiborne bounce back?
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:59 AM    (permalink
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I honestly don't see the appeal in Carter. Again. I'm seeing a cut your losses type moment and move him to a 3-4 team for a second rounder.

I just realised I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

Trade this trade that. But the method to the madness is that we cut our contracts. Gain cheap contracts through the draft and actually draft for the scheme as opposed to fitting players who are made for the 3-4.

Carter had his best years as a 3-4 ILB. We should market that and move him on. Ware had a down year but he can also be moved on for the same reason. Blame his backwards step on the change in scheme and move him to a 3-4 team who will give draft picks for him.

I don't think we require a Gates type TE so I'm happy with moving forward with Escobar and cut our losses with Witten.

It won't happen with Garrett coaching for his contract but I would like to see a cleanout sooo badly.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:15 AM    (permalink
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I honestly don't see the appeal in Carter. Again. I'm seeing a cut your losses type moment and move him to a 3-4 team for a second rounder.

I just realised I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

Trade this trade that. But the method to the madness is that we cut our contracts. Gain cheap contracts through the draft and actually draft for the scheme as opposed to fitting players who are made for the 3-4.

Carter had his best years as a 3-4 ILB. We should market that and move him on. Ware had a down year but he can also be moved on for the same reason. Blame his backwards step on the change in scheme and move him to a 3-4 team who will give draft picks for him.

I don't think we require a Gates type TE so I'm happy with moving forward with Escobar and cut our losses with Witten.

It won't happen with Garrett coaching for his contract but I would like to see a cleanout sooo badly.
And you seem pretty attached to the idea of 2nd rounders. :) I see your point but I don't know what the value of these players are coming off down years and advanced age.
You can package them to what you consider more appropriate schemes but I don't see anyone giving us 2nd round picks for any of them. It would be more of a take what you can get scenario.

Personally, I think Witten is still producing at a high level and there are ways to employ Escobar (in the slot for example)so as Witten isn't a progress stopper, so I'm okay with Witten.

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Old 02-12-2014, 07:19 AM    (permalink
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Oakland is the graveyard for former Cowboys isn't it?

I never was clear on what happens to players when they are traded? Does their base salary go, but we still owe the bonus? I remember someone saying something about that being the reason we can't trade Romo.
Trading is the same as cutting PRE June 1st. As in you immediately take all the dead cap.
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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Trading is the same as cutting PRE June 1st. As in you immediately take all the dead cap.
Exactly, trading guys like Ware and Witten would be impossible and the idea anybody would give up premium picks for them is a dream. Not going to happen.
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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My heart is tied to Ware so I want him to stick around and return to form even if we have to dish out the cash.

But as I continue to play devil's advocate, say we draft Kony Ealy, resign Spencer and give Hatcher a reasonable extension. With Crawford returning, Selvie continuing his development... Hayden, Bass, Wynn to rotate in... we'll have a decent line to work with and the rest of the draft to beef it up.

DE Ealy / Selvie
UT Crawford / Draft / Bass
NT Hatcher / Hayden / Wynn
DE Spencer / Selvie

Or Donald and someone like Demarcus Lawrence later...

DE Selvie / Lawrence
UT Donald / Crawford
NT Hatcher / Hayden
DE Spencer / Lawrence

Many options out there... things to think about
There you go, counting on Spencer as a starter. BAD idea IMO. Hatcher doesnt want to play the NT either btw..
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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There you go, counting on Spencer as a starter. BAD idea IMO. Hatcher doesnt want to play the NT either btw..
Yeah, I agree with you on counting on spencer, I don't, besides would you rather have him a couple of years younger than ware and injured with honestly, one great season he's produced in his career?? I would never keep Spencer over Ware. Even at this point imo Ware is much more valuable.

I also agree with you on the trade issue, we can't get much for any of them.

I would replace hatch with Donald, grab a pass rusher in 2, maybe move him to RDE and give Ware the easier match up against right tackles.

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Old 02-12-2014, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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Ware finally had surgery to fix his elbow. He's played hurt for 2 years with a nerve issue. They are essentially encapsulating it so he can go back to playing with that giant elbow pad.

He said ANY contact gave him almost unbearable pain.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Honestly at this point, I feel like starting Ware or Spencer amounts to the same thing.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Great DT read.
http://msn.foxsports.com/southwest/s...tackles-021214
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Quote:
Donald's production checks out at absurdly high levels and in 51 college games he had a crazy 95.5 explosive plays for a defensive tackle. In the ACC, no less, Donald was a man amongst boys. If you want to know who the dream target should be for the Dallas Cowboys when they get to the clock, it is Pitt's Aaron Donald. And, it appears he might have a chance due to his height and run stopping warts that some have seen. But, a guy who averages almost 2 destructive plays per game over 4 years in school? Sign me up.
Quote:
Jernigan is in everyone's 1st Round and he is part of a very talented Florida State defense that will have several players drafted. He is the exact opposite of Donald in his skill set from what I can tell as he is all about stuffing the run and not too great at getting to the QB. He played the 1-technique and projects to the very same spot. Marinelli said you don't take a 1-tech in the 1st round.
Quote:
Nix is a real treat to watch a highlight film of, because he is the type of guy who is such a physical freak with his size and feet that his best 10 plays of the last 2 years have been jaw-dropping. But, he is also a guy who has productivity issues, health concerns, and for Dallas, just doesn't seem to be much of a scheme fit.
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Sutton is a stud and if you can just go back to his old weight of 290, you would see a player who looks just as troublesome as Aaron Donald. His USC game in 2012 was a thing of beauty as he had a violent game that was destructive in so many ways. That is who I would be betting on returning. He has a swim move and a relentless pass rush from the interior, and as his 37 TFLs in the last 2 seasons indicate, he will destroy some running plays with great ease.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Its clearly Donald for us. Best Player and fit at the position. This has got to be a no brainer if he's available.

On another note anyone want to comment on my morris claiborne thread.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...66#post3566666
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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Ware blaming his injuries for the last two years is really starting to get to me. If you knew the pain was there. Why the **** did you play ANOTHER season with it? Get it fixed and get healthy. Don't halfass it for two years in a row after receiving that contract especially when we need you to transition to a new position.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:41 AM    (permalink
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Ware blaming his injuries for the last two years is really starting to get to me. If you knew the pain was there. Why the **** did you play ANOTHER season with it? Get it fixed and get healthy. Don't halfass it for two years in a row after receiving that contract especially when we need you to transition to a new position.
It's major surgery. Pretty much every player in the NFL does the same thing. You hope to rest and for it to get better which supposedly it was when he took an extended break but he never rested it long enough to fully heal.

Read up on the procedure and you can see why it was a last resort. Complications from it can be career ending.
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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It's major surgery. Pretty much every player in the NFL does the same thing. You hope to rest and for it to get better which supposedly it was when he took an extended break but he never rested it long enough to fully heal.

Read up on the procedure and you can see why it was a last resort. Complications from it can be career ending.
Then you also have to weigh it against earning potential as well. If he gets cut for playing poorly two years in a row and can't get another decent contract or he has the surgery. Repairs the issue. Back to playing his best and gets another contract before he retires.
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:05 AM    (permalink
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Then you also have to weigh it against earning potential as well. If he gets cut for playing poorly two years in a row and can't get another decent contract or he has the surgery. Repairs the issue. Back to playing his best and gets another contract before he retires.
Not saying hindsight isn't 20-20. Ware has played through pretty much every injury he's ever had with us and then repairs it in the off-season. I mean he's played with stingers that removed his ability to use one of his arms effectively. The guy is an ironman who believed rest would fix this issue just like the myriad of issues he's had during the season in the past. Hard to fault him for not wanting to jeopardize his career for something that he believed, and was told, would heal with rest. Surgery is typically the last resort type of option especially when it is invasive.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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http://dcfanatic.com/?p=10242

Want to like/hate Matt Johnson. I find this funny...should store this in memory and blow up his twitter when he tweaks his hammy in TC and gets cuts.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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http://dcfanatic.com/?p=10242

Want to like/hate Matt Johnson. I find this funny...should store this in memory and blow up his twitter when he tweaks his hammy in TC and gets cuts.
The thing is, not trying to be a homer, Matt Johnson does has elite physical tools and has instincts if you watch his tape. If he were to somehow stay healthy, he could be something.

As for Anthony Spencer, according to Bryan Broaddus on Talkin' Cowboys yesterday (during the first segment if you guys care to listen) he said he saw Spencer walking around Valley Ranch the other day and he was walking like an 80 year old man and doesn't think he's even started any serious rehab yet.

The plus side to the is if we want Spencer we can probably have him back for the veteran minimum. The negative is that he might be done for good.
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