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Old 02-19-2014, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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He has that in his past, I think it's a possibility, but who do you like early at FS?
I really like Joyner, Ward is growing on me, and I think I would be okay with Pryor if the team can channel his athleticism into more of a coverage mindset rather then just blowing up guys.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Moving Church to LB might be a good idea. I would rather they do it slowly though. I think they could have him at weak side in some packages to see how it goes, and if he does great then keep him there permanently. My concern with him is if he could handle taking on blockers. Even on the weakside he'd encounter more blockers than he ever did at safety.

Here's another move that could make sense. Maybe they can move Brandon Carr to FS. He's making a ton of money, but he has only played big time every now and then. Maybe moving him to safety could be a jump start for him. He seemed fine at it when Rob Ryan did it for a little bit, and with Scandrick playing well there would be someone to fill his place.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:22 PM    (permalink
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http://www.dallascowboys.com/multime...c-58805b950e79

Does anybody else find it odd that S. Jones admits they had Floyd slotted incorrectly based on what they want out of a 4-3 UT? He says it was a mistake and it wont happen again, but how do you go into a draft with a guy rated #5 overall and he doesnt fit your scheme? This is THEIR board, not an overall board. Things like this really makes our draft process look bad. It will be interesting to see what McClay brings to the table but I know he said they are looking for speed.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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http://www.dallascowboys.com/multime...c-58805b950e79

Does anybody else find it odd that S. Jones admits they had Floyd slotted incorrectly based on what they want out of a 4-3 UT? He says it was a mistake and it wont happen again, but how do you go into a draft with a guy rated #5 overall and he doesnt fit your scheme? This is THEIR board, not an overall board. Things like this really makes our draft process look bad. It will be interesting to see what McClay brings to the table but I know he said they are looking for speed.
Seems to me that it seems that they didn't necessarily have him slotted incorrectly. It sounded like they made their big board, liked Floyd a lot, but the defensive coaches didn't feel like he fit their scheme. I think that all teams do this. They rank guys who they think are the best, and then when it comes time to pick they weigh their options. Having Floyd #5 is probably them just thinking that he is a good player, but since the Kiffin and Marinelli didn't feel that he fit they passed on him. It's the same reason why their big board is probably going to include a few quarterbacks really high regardless of the fact that they won't be looking at anyone that high this draft. The big board isn't a bible but rather a gauge on who they think is good.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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Seems to me that it seems that they didn't necessarily have him slotted incorrectly. It sounded like they made their big board, liked Floyd a lot, but the defensive coaches didn't feel like he fit their scheme. I think that all teams do this. They rank guys who they think are the best, and then when it comes time to pick they weigh their options. Having Floyd #5 is probably them just thinking that he is a good player, but since the Kiffin and Marinelli didn't feel that he fit they passed on him. It's the same reason why their big board is probably going to include a few quarterbacks really high regardless of the fact that they won't be looking at anyone that high this draft. The big board isn't a bible but rather a gauge on who they think is good.
We make a Dallas Cowboy big board for our team. The players are graded for our team. If he didnt fit our system he shouldnt have been graded that high. Doesnt make sense.

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We had heard before the draft that the Cowboys wanted to include only players on the board that they were sure they wanted, so they were working to develop a leaner, more "pure" board. This board has 132 players on it, which is actually pretty close to the one that leaked in 2010, which had 129 players.
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/...-7-round-board
Floyd 5, Richardson 16, Star 18, pretty bad evaluation too.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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As much as I like Stephen Jones, especially for his cap wizardry, today's comments really disturbed me. If he was just spewing smoke to give the media a 5 minute interview then fine, but it sounded genuine to me.

The premise of "drafted players for our system" is a cardinal sin in running a football team. The great organizations, GM's, coaches, etc. draft good players regardless of the fit and then make it work. Look at what Belichick does every year. If anything, that makes you even more dangerous because the team is unique, and not a classic carbon copy of teams from the past. Look at Seattle and that defense. They weren't drafting to fit pieces to a puzzle, they picked good players and made it work.

To me this stems a lot from Jason Garrett's 1980's straight forward mentality without any thought of innovation. We saw how it took them until thanksgiving to use Dunbar. They never used Escobar even though every time he was in made a play, and what the heck happened to Hanna and dwayne harris? Every time those guys touch the ball it's usually at least a 10+ yard play and a first down.. but no, let's just have dez run deep double covered, witten run 8 yards and turn around, and miles austin run a comeback route as he pulls his hamstring.... punt.

Honestly, part of me really wants this team to go 6-10 or worse, get a college coach in here or someone like Adam Gase from the Broncos to bring in a young innovative mind because this old school, "ABC" coaching isn't going to work in today's NFL unless you have a 1990's cowboys roster, which we don't and isn't possible with the salary cap.

Really disappointing comments today from Stephen Jones.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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We make a Dallas Cowboy big board for our team. The players are graded for our team. If he didnt fit our system he shouldnt have been graded that high. Doesnt make sense.


http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/...-7-round-board
Floyd 5, Richardson 16, Star 18, pretty bad evaluation too.
I didn't realize that they made their board according to their scheme. In that case it could be seen that they messed up having Floyd that high, but then again they ended up with a great couple of picks from that trade down. Outside the Escobar pick the draft was a good one so far, so it can't be all that bad.

One thing to also keep in mind is that the quote, "The Cowboys only wanted to include players that they were sure they wanted," could easily mean that these are just the players they'd feel comfortable drafting. We have heard that they didn't have Keenan Allen on their board because of the injury history, so that quote could mean that they are considering these guys on some level. You see players on there that they wouldn't draft under many circumstances like Nassib, so it could be like I mentioned before where it's a board of who they think is good in order of talent.

Another thing to think about with the Floyd thing is how much Kiffin and Marinelli didn't want Floyd. It could be that they thought he was a good guy that they could mold, but that there were other needs. Remember that Kiffin said he thought that they had too many defensive linemen last year during the draft, so it could be them just saying that they don't need a guy on the D-line at all. They could have said something like, "He's good, but we have enough guys already. We don't need him, and he might not be that great of a fit in the system either." Now that's not to say that they were right about the D-line being loaded, but that's how they felt at the time. I could see so many scenarios as to why they passed on Floyd when he was so high on their board.

I know you're still upset at the Floyd thing, but you won't even remember his name with Donald has 57 tackles for loss this season along with 24 sacks. Not only will he get DPOY, but Frederick will make the Pro Bowl, and T. Williams will break that 1,000 yard barrier. Sometime during the season Garrett gets traded to the Seahawks for Dan Quinn, and then Dallas gets dat sixth ring....

Okay maybe not all that crazy stuff at the end, but it's not too far off that Frederick gets to the Pro Bowl or All-Pro while Williams gets 1,000 yards in a season the next two years. They got two good, young players out of the deal instead of Floyd, so it's all good so far.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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Why do we care about how their board looks? Don't we care about who they picked more? Some people like to complain about the most stupidest things.

Boards are not meant to be followed like a Bible. They are a guide. You make adjustments as the draft unfolds. If anyone has ever done a fantasy draft and follow some kind of expert board, they know that who you pick depends on a lot of different factors... like what positions are stronger/weaker... what positions are getting scooped up quickly... what position you need... what do you want to gamble on because you have a sneaky good feeling about him... etc etc etc.

We made a trade and didn't take Floyd. Get over it Pocket. Things turned out for the better and our decision makers made the right choice. As hard as it is for you to swallow.... EAT IT!
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:20 AM    (permalink
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Wouldn't it make sense to have your draft board complete with players who "don't fit" as well. So you can also measure the value of your spot if you are looking to trade. We had a guy ranked 5 on our board at the 16 spot(at least I think it was 16). Which meant we had great value their for a team looking to trade up.

Now if you want to discuss if we got "enough" I think that's a fair argument. We got two starters. However I still think we should have gotten something this year as well.(a further pick) But to me it makes perfect sense to have a full ranking of players so you know your value. That's what I would do. Regardless of "perceived fit"
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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I think the recent history of this organization shows they make mistakes or are less than perfect, that's a given, I think "IF" it was an oversight or error is something they may have to be more diligent about going forward, but in this case as D, E-man and Shane mentioned, so far the beard and twill is a pretty good trade off for Floyd.

I'm not sure they're admitting a mistake here as much as pointing out the value of passing on a perceived higher ranked player for moving down and hitting on two of greater value who contributed right away.

This may be their way as we approach the draft, of rubbing everyone's noses in it and reminding them about the harsh criticism they took when drafting Frederick.

Lets be realistic, the beard was borderline pro-bowl, while Floyd showed as much production as Nick Hayden to this point.

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Old 02-20-2014, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Wouldn't it make sense to have your draft board complete with players who "don't fit" as well. So you can also measure the value of your spot if you are looking to trade. We had a guy ranked 5 on our board at the 16 spot(at least I think it was 16). Which meant we had great value their for a team looking to trade up.

Now if you want to discuss if we got "enough" I think that's a fair argument. We got two starters. However I still think we should have gotten something this year as well.(a further pick) But to me it makes perfect sense to have a full ranking of players so you know your value. That's what I would do. Regardless of "perceived fit"
I think they have both...and probably more. When you watch them in the War room they always have multiple sheets in front of them that they are fiddling through. A board of 132 names (as was leaked) is from their board on the wall... but those names can all fit on one side of a simple 8x11 sheet of paper. So common sense says they have multiple reference sheets.... not to mention laptops and such.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Why do we care about how their board looks? Don't we care about who they picked more? Some people like to complain about the most stupidest things.

Boards are not meant to be followed like a Bible. They are a guide. You make adjustments as the draft unfolds. If anyone has ever done a fantasy draft and follow some kind of expert board, they know that who you pick depends on a lot of different factors... like what positions are stronger/weaker... what positions are getting scooped up quickly... what position you need... what do you want to gamble on because you have a sneaky good feeling about him... etc etc etc.

We made a trade and didn't take Floyd. Get over it Pocket. Things turned out for the better and our decision makers made the right choice. As hard as it is for you to swallow.... EAT IT!
WOW, D with the spin control. Didnt see that coming Apparently you dont comprehend so well, so let me spell it out for you AGAIN. It DOES NOT MATTER that we didnt pick Floyd and that we traded down. What matters is our front office put together a board for our team and ranked a guy in the top 5 of the draft that our coaches had no interest in. The S. Jones interview makes our FO look like fools. Using your weak fantasy football analogy, if Im picking 12th or 16th and the #5 overall player that I have on MY board is still there, Im taking him. I know in your world of rainbows and lolipops, 135-135 is A-OK but to act like the FO cant be questioned, is homerism at its worst. D-Unit-Jones. Dont even get me started on Floyd being the #1 DT on their board
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Wouldn't it make sense to have your draft board complete with players who "don't fit" as well. So you can also measure the value of your spot if you are looking to trade. We had a guy ranked 5 on our board at the 16 spot(at least I think it was 16). Which meant we had great value their for a team looking to trade up.

Now if you want to discuss if we got "enough" I think that's a fair argument. We got two starters. However I still think we should have gotten something this year as well.(a further pick) But to me it makes perfect sense to have a full ranking of players so you know your value. That's what I would do. Regardless of "perceived fit"
Yes. Thats why leaving the WKGs off their board is dumb. Just because we dont like a player for whatever reason, doesnt mean another teams not interested. Some folks will tell you (D) a made up assumption that we have many boards and those players are on the "other" lists, but Im sure most see the spin going on and realize he has NO clue.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I think they have both...and probably more. When you watch them in the War room they always have multiple sheets in front of them that they are fiddling through. A board of 132 names (as was leaked) is from their board on the wall... but those names can all fit on one side of a simple 8x11 sheet of paper. So common sense says they have multiple reference sheets.... not to mention laptops and such.
Lol the spin is amazing...You have NO idea but whatever makes you feel better. The FACTS are JJ has turned us into a .500 franchise over the last 18 years and you refuse to see ANY faults through your blue colored glasses. Your embarrassing yourself with these made up assumptions. Just stop already.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I didn't realize that they made their board according to their scheme. In that case it could be seen that they messed up having Floyd that high, but then again they ended up with a great couple of picks from that trade down. Outside the Escobar pick the draft was a good one so far, so it can't be all that bad.

One thing to also keep in mind is that the quote, "The Cowboys only wanted to include players that they were sure they wanted," could easily mean that these are just the players they'd feel comfortable drafting. We have heard that they didn't have Keenan Allen on their board because of the injury history, so that quote could mean that they are considering these guys on some level. You see players on there that they wouldn't draft under many circumstances like Nassib, so it could be like I mentioned before where it's a board of who they think is good in order of talent.

Another thing to think about with the Floyd thing is how much Kiffin and Marinelli didn't want Floyd. It could be that they thought he was a good guy that they could mold, but that there were other needs. Remember that Kiffin said he thought that they had too many defensive linemen last year during the draft, so it could be them just saying that they don't need a guy on the D-line at all. They could have said something like, "He's good, but we have enough guys already. We don't need him, and he might not be that great of a fit in the system either." Now that's not to say that they were right about the D-line being loaded, but that's how they felt at the time. I could see so many scenarios as to why they passed on Floyd when he was so high on their board.

I know you're still upset at the Floyd thing, but you won't even remember his name with Donald has 57 tackles for loss this season along with 24 sacks. Not only will he get DPOY, but Frederick will make the Pro Bowl, and T. Williams will break that 1,000 yard barrier. Sometime during the season Garrett gets traded to the Seahawks for Dan Quinn, and then Dallas gets dat sixth ring....

Okay maybe not all that crazy stuff at the end, but it's not too far off that Frederick gets to the Pro Bowl or All-Pro while Williams gets 1,000 yards in a season the next two years. They got two good, young players out of the deal instead of Floyd, so it's all good so far.
Again, Im not questioning the trade down anymore. What Im questioning is ranking a guy top 5 over other DTs that were far better AND ranking him that high when our coaches had no interest in him. Most teams have a competent GM and he makes the picks, ours listens to the coaches, scouts, and whoever else is in the room and clearly those guys dont share the same ideas. I would think that the good teams have all that taken care of before the draft.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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WOW, D with the spin control. Didnt see that coming Apparently you dont comprehend so well, so let me spell it out for you AGAIN. It DOES NOT MATTER that we didnt pick Floyd and that we traded down. What matters is our front office put together a board for our team and ranked a guy in the top 5 of the draft that our coaches had no interest in. The S. Jones interview makes our FO look like fools. Using your weak fantasy football analogy, if Im picking 12th or 16th and the #5 overall player that I have on MY board is still there, Im taking him. I know in your world of rainbows and lolipops, 135-135 is A-OK but to act like the FO cant be questioned, is homerism at its worst. D-Unit-Jones. Dont even get me started on Floyd being the #1 DT on their board
Bitter crow is F'n bitter. We made a trade that trumped taking the #5 player on their board and it worked out.

What this says is that the scouts opinion doesn't dictate the way we draft. That it is a collaborative effort. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? I don't know why you can't comprehend it. Because you like to be wrong? For everything you like to blame Jerry, but the decisions that are made are made as a group! Scouts, coaches, Jerry/Stephen... C'mon bro. You can't be that stubborn.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Lol the spin is amazing...You have NO idea but whatever makes you feel better. The FACTS are JJ has turned us into a .500 franchise over the last 18 years and you refuse to see ANY faults through your blue colored glasses. Your embarrassing yourself with these made up assumptions. Just stop already.
Do some research and tell me how many teams have done better than .500 over that span. 8-8 is a fighting chance to for the playoffs. You sound like a whiny spoiled brat. This is the NFL. Seattle just won their first SB in franchise history! Being competitive has to be considered acceptable. If we were total lost causes every year, then you would have a case. But you don't. The only spin is you on the top of your head. Nobody else here acts like you.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Again, Im not questioning the trade down anymore. What Im questioning is ranking a guy top 5 over other DTs that were far better AND ranking him that high when our coaches had no interest in him. Most teams have a competent GM and he makes the picks, ours listens to the coaches, scouts, and whoever else is in the room and clearly those guys dont share the same ideas. I would think that the good teams have all that taken care of before the draft.
If the scouts listen to the coaches in order to make their board.... then who's making the board?

They will try to gather input but you won't have an exact match.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Do some research and tell me how many teams have done better than .500 over that span. 8-8 is a fighting chance to for the playoffs. You sound like a whiny spoiled brat. This is the NFL. Seattle just won their first SB in franchise history! Being competitive has to be considered acceptable. If we were total lost causes every year, then you would have a case. But you don't. The only spin is you on the top of your head. Nobody else here acts like you.
If one playoff win in 18 years is your idea of being competitive then you have low standards. I dont care about those other teams, We set the standard, now we are the butt of jokes. Glad your cool with it but Im not.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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If the scouts listen to the coaches in order to make their board.... then who's making the board?

They will try to gather input but you won't have an exact match.
If Im a scout and there is a guy Ive scouted and really like, say Floyd for example, and I tell the coaches that Ive been watching this kid and he really impressed me, and the coaches watch film and tell me hes not a fit or what they are looking for, then Im moving him down my board. That would be a scout and a coach working together to put a board together for the team. Floyd wasnt drafted because of our scheme which is why he should have never been in our top 5.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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BTW heres an article I just read and it agrees with me.

Quote:
INDIANAPOLIS -- In an effort to avoid the miscommunication that led the Dallas Cowboys to pass on the fifth-ranked player on their board while holding the 18th pick in the first round in last year's draft, the defensive coaches spent the last two weeks discussing with the scouts the characteristics of the players they want in their 4-3 scheme.

Last year the Cowboys passed on Sharrif Floyd in part because he was not a fit for what Monte Kiffin and Rod Marinelli wanted in a defensive lineman. During last year's draft owner and general manager Jerry Jones said Floyd did not have the "quick twitch" the Cowboys needed at defensive tackle.

If that was the case, then Floyd should not have been rated so highly.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowbo...t-on-same-page
Guess this is me "eating it" lol
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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LOL D I cannot believe you still have pocket visible. He has a knack for repeating himself and drawing people into the same arguments repeatedly.

When I see 3 or 4 pocket posts hidden in a row I immediately figure you guys are talking about Jerry Jones, .500 winning, Jerry Jones, Cowboys GM, Jerry Jones, and maybe sprinkle in some Jerry Jones.


In the interest of discussion on current 'Boys I'll reignite the Church to LB talk. He has played a bunch of NICKEL and DIME linebacker snaps. Asking him to do it full time would involve adding 10-15 pounds AT LEAST. In the running game that close to the line he'd get washed out. He's very good moving forward but if an OL engages on him he's going to disappear at his current size.
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Old 02-20-2014, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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LOL D I cannot believe you still have pocket visible. He has a knack for repeating himself and drawing people into the same arguments repeatedly.

When I see 3 or 4 pocket posts hidden in a row I immediately figure you guys are talking about Jerry Jones, .500 winning, Jerry Jones, Cowboys GM, Jerry Jones, and maybe sprinkle in some Jerry Jones.


In the interest of discussion on current 'Boys I'll reignite the Church to LB talk. He has played a bunch of NICKEL and DIME linebacker snaps. Asking him to do it full time would involve adding 10-15 pounds AT LEAST. In the running game that close to the line he'd get washed out. He's very good moving forward but if an OL engages on him he's going to disappear at his current size.
Fitting that you have me on ignore. You do the same with whats wrong with this franchise. Church is an average player, LB or Safety. Need an upgrade at both.
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Fitting that you have me on ignore. You do the same with whats wrong with this franchise. Church is an average player, LB or Safety. Need an upgrade at both.
One reply simply because I'm bored :) It will be only one reply though.

1. Agreed on Church. His strengths are that of a quality ST player. He's a very good tackler and adept at moving forward to the ball. He locates well and doesn't miss open field tackles. That being said he isn't athletic enough to excel at coverage and isn't always where he needs to be in pass coverage which is strange considering how well he diagnoses running lanes.

2. "Need an upgrade at both", and Offensive Line, and backup RB, and depth WR, and backup QB, and Defensive Line, and backup MLB, SLB, depth at CB, and both safety spots. That attitude is the exact reason why you are blocked. Cowboy fans, especially from the successful periods are spoiled out of their minds. You have to analyse the team from an overall NFL prospective on occasion to realize how lucky you are to be a Dallas fan. Even over the past HORRIBLE OMG JERRY YOU SUCK years we're still average. Get that? Better than half the NFL over our worst period. You fully expect the team to have the best player in the league at every spot and make yourself miserable when it doesn't come to fruition.

With that best of luck with your arguments with D about Jerry Jones :P
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Old 02-20-2014, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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One reply simply because I'm bored :) It will be only one reply though.

1. Agreed on Church. His strengths are that of a quality ST player. He's a very good tackler and adept at moving forward to the ball. He locates well and doesn't miss open field tackles. That being said he isn't athletic enough to excel at coverage and isn't always where he needs to be in pass coverage which is strange considering how well he diagnoses running lanes.

2. "Need an upgrade at both", and Offensive Line, and backup RB, and depth WR, and backup QB, and Defensive Line, and backup MLB, SLB, depth at CB, and both safety spots. That attitude is the exact reason why you are blocked. Cowboy fans, especially from the successful periods are spoiled out of their minds. You have to analyse the team from an overall NFL prospective on occasion to realize how lucky you are to be a Dallas fan. Even over the past HORRIBLE OMG JERRY YOU SUCK years we're still average. Get that? Better than half the NFL over our worst period. You fully expect the team to have the best player in the league at every spot and make yourself miserable when it doesn't come to fruition.

With that best of luck with your arguments with D about Jerry Jones :P
Thanks for gracing me with your time :) Like I told D, Im glad your happy with our mediocrity. I am not. Average SUCKS in my books. I'd rather be 1-15 and work our way to the top than to be 8-8 every year. Being close to making the playoffs is not the same as being a contender. To analize our team from an overall NFL perspective is we have 1 playoff win in the last 18 years and counting. That puts us in the lower 25% of the league in that time frame Im sure. Your spot on with our needs, wonder why we are in this mess?
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