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Old 08-26-2014, 03:40 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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My god our QB situation is pathetic if anything happens to Romo.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Meh. Weeden actually looked decent for a backup.


Melton fully practicing with the first team? Yes please. We need him to be dynamic or our defensive line is going to be hot garbage.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Meh. Weeden actually looked decent for a backup.


Melton fully practicing with the first team? Yes please. We need him to be dynamic or our defensive line is going to be hot garbage.
And looked lost as an NFL starter. Off we are going to go with a recycled QB, Christian Ponder is a much better option.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Most top backups are QBs who stunk up the joint as a starter on bad teams, but they are seen as top backups because they have starting experience. Weeden sucks for certain, but he's a backup that's started enough to not completely freak out if Romo goes down. That's all you need from a backup QB anyways. Can he get the ball to Dez and Witten for a few games? Yes. Would he be a liability if he has to play 4 or more games? Of course, but what backup QB wouldn't be besides a young guy that's developing? That's just the nature of backup QBs in the league.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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And looked lost as an NFL starter. Off we are going to go with a recycled QB, Christian Ponder is a much better option.
Homerism. Ponder is terrible. He's looked more lost in Minny (with better talent) than Weeden in Cleveland.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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And looked lost as an NFL starter. Off we are going to go with a recycled QB, Christian Ponder is a much better option.
For the Browns... He's still inexperienced and has the tools of a starting QB. I'm not sure why people get so caught up in how talented their backup is. Even when we had the best backup QB in the league when Romo was lost we didn't go on to success.

Ponder is soooo much worse than Weeden. You need to evaluate prospects without factoring their college.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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I am and Ponder can manage games and get to the playoffs. His on the field play proves he's the better NFL QB. Not to mention much younger with an actual chance to develop.

It also isn't like Weeden had nothing to work with in Cleveland, he had Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron.

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Old 08-26-2014, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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5 reasons why the defense won't be as bad as everyone thinks...

1) Rolando McClain resurrects his career.
2) Lawrence comes back in the first quarter of the season and is a force.
3) George Selvie develops.
4) Henry Melton returns to form. Top-5 DT in the NFL.
5) Blind, dumb luck in the secondary
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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I am and Ponder can manage games and get to the playoffs. His on the field play proves he's the better NFL QB. Not to mention much younger with an actual chance to develop.
You can't possibly believe that. He couldn't win with an elite defense and Adrian Peterson. Stop being a homer. If you do believe that and are not allowing your FSU love to cloud your vision you should stop evaluating QBs immediately.

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5 reasons why the defense won't be as bad as everyone thinks...

1) Rolando McClain resurrects his career.
2) Lawrence comes back in the first quarter of the season and is a force.
3) George Selvie develops.
4) Henry Melton returns to form. Top-5 DT in the NFL.
5) Blind, dumb luck in the secondary
I like you.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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You can't possibly believe that. He couldn't win with an elite defense and Adrian Peterson. Stop being a homer. If you do believe that and are not allowing your FSU love to cloud your vision you should stop evaluating QBs immediately.
Funny since you seem to have no clue what a QB is actually supposed to do. Ponder has a higher completion percentage, a much better TD/INT ratio, a higher QB Rating and played with less talent at receiver than Weeden had. He's also 4.5 years younger and considerably more mobile.

But I suppose you'd blame him for losing the game against us last year.

Go back to the season ending game against Green Bay in 2012 if you want to see what you can actually get from Ponder in game management.

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Old 08-26-2014, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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As a Cowboys/Seminoles fan it's a bipolar feeling to know Jameis Winston will be the best QB the stadium sees in a white uniform all year.
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Funny since you seem to have no clue what a QB is actually supposed to do. Ponder has a higher completion percentage, a much better TD/INT ratio, a higher QB Rating and played with less talent at receiver than Weeden had. He's also 4.5 years younger and considerably more mobile.

But I suppose you'd blame him for losing the game against us last year.

Go back to the season ending game against Green Bay in 2012 if you want to see what you can actually get from Ponder in game management.
Box score scouting is the best. Ponder had a sub-par arm and ended up being an interception machine on a team with the best running back in the NFL and an elite defense. Trent Dilfer could have taken that team to the Super Bowl. Ponder managed to keep them down. Not an accomplishment.

Meanwhile the Browns had a terrible rushing attack. Rotating door of OC's and you want to fault purely Weeden. Mmkay.

Weeden has the better arm by a country mile. He's also raw and has a much higher developmental arc than Ponder. Acting like Weeden is a typical 30 year old NFL QB is absurd. He's a recent college QB. Lets not act like you wouldn't be slobbering all over Chris Weinke's junk in the same situation.


Hit the tape rather than the boxes. Weeden has all the tools of an NFL QB but struggled to read the field properly. Guess which is easier to correct: A weak arm or poor reads? Rhetorical but definitely reads. When Weeden knew what he was doing i.e. breaking the huddle with a 2 stage read his mechanics were on point and he throws the ball well. His issue? Make him hold the ball and everything falls apart. Take away his quick read and the secondary and all of a sudden he's a panic'd mess. Another HUGE flaw? Interior pressure rattled him hard. The Browns were weak in that regard and it showed. It's overconfidence, or panic, that when pressure gets to him he's going to make a poor decision. Correctable? You bet your seminole ass.

Ponder on the other hand... his arm strength isn't ideal. On top of that he's become a check-down master. Just check out the adjusted net yards per attempt. Talk about completion percentage all you want. When you're throwing to your safety valve early in the progression you're hurting your team. What is maddening is that he was a very good short-immediate passer in college. Even on the run. He's completely lost that knack:







These are simple short throws that are miles off target. It's not just a mental issue he has severe mechanical issues on TOP of having less tools than the aforementioned Weeden.

Breaking down the tape it isn't even close hence my comment regarding homerism.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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Is Ponder even in the NFL?
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Wow three plays versus 3 years. Box score scouting insults only work on selecting games, not whole seasons.

Trent Dilfer would lead the Vikings to the Super Bowl?

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Old 08-26-2014, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Wow three plays versus 3 years. Box score scouting insults only work on selecting games, not whole seasons.

Trent Dilfer would lead the Vikings to the Super Bowl?
Mass. I'm telling you to scout the prospect not do a cursory glance at their stats and where they went to college. C'mon. This isn't ESPN message boards it's Draft Countdown. Analysis is required :) The Dilfer comment was an obvious exaggeration. Simple pointing out that with an all-world RB and elite defense a pure bus driver would have been better than Ponder.

The three plays highlight a fatal flaw Ponder has developed. Look at his mechanics. It isn't just simple things like foot placement or altering his motion. He has regressed from when he was drafted and at that point in time he didn't have the necessary arm strength to put the ball down the field. If we were looking for a WCO QB you might have a reasonable argument but Dallas doesn't play WCO and Weeden is a MUCH better prospect when factoring more than just his player profile stats.

I welcome you to break down both prospects. Not statistically telling me how they have played in the past. Tell me their strengths and weaknesses. Where they have developed/need work. If Garrett can get into Weeden's brain and correct some simple pressure oriented decisions he is more than capable of being a backup QB in the league.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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The Matt Johnson experiment is over.... Finally.

And Weeden is as capable of a backup as you'll get in this league.

The whole point of a backup is to be able to manage 3-4 games, and hopefully play well enough to split those 4. Weeden can do that. You don't need a starter as a backup. We had that with Orton and look where that got us.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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Guys, guys, guys.... enough with the Ponder/Weeden talk.

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Old 08-27-2014, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Want to poke around and make your own 53?

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/...ones-for-a-day

Fun to poke around with now that we've been most of the way through preseason.
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Old 08-28-2014, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Normally I'm not one of the doom and gloom guys, but the list of 4th rounders drafted recently show a very poor history of 4th rounders. B.W. Webb being cut today joins a really horrid, long list of busts since 2000. Just look at these guys:

Kareem Larrimore, Markus Steele, Jamar Martin, Bradie James, Bruce Thornton, Marion Barber, Skyler Green, Isiah Stanback, Tashard Choice, Victor Butler, Brandon Williams, AOA, David Arkin, Matt Johnson, B.W. Webb, and then Hitchens this year.

There are very few guys there that aren't busts, and then Hitchens who it is his rookie season. I like Hitchens too, so I'm hoping like hell that he doesn't join that long list of failures. I thought that Webb was playing better, but it makes sense to go with Patmon and Terrance Mitchell since they were outplaying him.

Also for the record, Tyler Patmon's father used to coach my high school football team in DeSoto, and he would always be out there with us when he was a kid messing around with us during breaks and having fun. Nice to see him all grown up and on the Cowboys, but man it makes me feel old seeing him grown now. lol
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Old 08-28-2014, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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One thing all of those guys had in common though? Potential. 4th round isn't a bad place to gamble as if any of them had worked out it would have been extremely good value. Fact remains though with the track record perhaps our scouting department needs to do a better job. I still look back at Webb's tape and am convinced he can be a dependable nickel/dime back. Maybe he'll slip through onto the PS and develop some killer instinct. He's the anti-Patmon in terms of reacting to a read.

Also Jakar Hamilton was suspended 4 games. Blessing in disguise IMHO as he won't count against the 53 until after the 4th game.
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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I think that Webb has some potential too, but Mitchell has more, and Moore is more reliable as well at a decent age. I probably would have kept Webb and put Patmon on the practice squad since Webb has experience, but the cookie didn't crumble so bad here. There's always the possibility of them bringing him back since injuries are pretty much a given with this team.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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One thing all of those guys had in common though? Potential. 4th round isn't a bad place to gamble as if any of them had worked out it would have been extremely good value. Fact remains though with the track record perhaps our scouting department needs to do a better job. I still look back at Webb's tape and am convinced he can be a dependable nickel/dime back. Maybe he'll slip through onto the PS and develop some killer instinct. He's the anti-Patmon in terms of reacting to a read.

Also Jakar Hamilton was suspended 4 games. Blessing in disguise IMHO as he won't count against the 53 until after the 4th game.
Lol you are Mr Sunshine :) Dude gets suspended and its a good thing. Duge gets placed on IR and its a good thing. A list full of busts but they all had good potential. "perhaps our scouting department need to do a better job" Lol, Perhaps??? This is a poorly constructed roster and has been for way too long. Im seeing 6-10 and major changes coming in the off season. Hope Im wrong but nothing about this preseason has given me hope.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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My god our QB situation is pathetic if anything happens to Romo.
You ain't joking!
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Lol you are Mr Sunshine :) Dude gets suspended and its a good thing. Duge gets placed on IR and its a good thing. A list full of busts but they all had good potential. "perhaps our scouting department need to do a better job" Lol, Perhaps??? This is a poorly constructed roster and has been for way too long. Im seeing 6-10 and major changes coming in the off season. Hope Im wrong but nothing about this preseason has given me hope.
Silver lining. I'd probably stop going to football forums if I turned into the ultra-pessimist. If you want me to flesh out why having an extra roster for 4 weeks is good sure. I don't see Jakar in any packages this year and which means he's either a pure ST ace or a non-dressed member of the 53. By having him not counted for a roster spot it allows us to keep another CB to cover for Scandrick (Patmon perhaps?) or a pure ST ace that may be on the bubble like Heath to make the roster at least for the beginning of the year.

So every single one of our 4ths was a bad pick at the time? Most of those selections were greeted with happiness as they tended to be players with high athletic upside. Way better IMHO than taking unathletic players from big schools of the previous regime. I hated when we took capped out athletes that were guaranteed to be no better than 3rd stringers. Give me upside every time.

If you want to be miserable 24-7 and carry the torch for Bob that's fine and dandy but I wouldn't expect everyone else here to join in. You'll have to be miserable by yourself :)

I have no illusions about our upcoming season. I see us anywhere from 6-10 to 9-7 or an extremely lucky 10-6 depending on how the ball bounces. Our schedule isn't terrible but barring a record breaking year on offense we are not a playoff team. Or even that close to be honest. At least the NFC East so we'll be in the hunt lol.
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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How's this for sunshine?

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