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Old 07-12-2007, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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Here's what I think of our RB situation. It is good, but not great. Does it have to be great? Do we have to have a household name RB with his name in flashy lights in order to be a championship team? No, I don't think so. ...and really, I don't want so.

The way our team is built, we cannot afford it. We have a TON of young guys who we will want to keep in the future. Having a RB that will command top dollar is something we cannot afford. Otherwise, we will lose someone or someones that we don't want to. The duo of JJ and MB3 works well. The hard part is... JJ needs his carries in order to be that back that we all came to love in the beginning. He won't get it so long as MB3 is around. MB3 doesn't need the carries to be efficient. He's been sharing carries for a long time leading back to college. He knows how to prep for it, be ready for it, and how to make an impact when he gets in. That's why we see that guy shooting out of a cannon ball every time he touches the ball. He's tailor made to be in a RB by committee.

What I think our RB situation needs is one more solid back to emerge. If either JJ or MB3 goes down with injury, all of sudden our RB situation becomes an emergency. If JJ goes down, MB3 will not have the same effect that he has now. If MB3 goes down, we lack that guy we can count on for power running and are left with a lot of question marks in JJ.

So yeah, I think we're one RB away from having a "great" RB attack. The RB by Committee approach is smart because it gives us depth and keeps RB salaries relatively low.
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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thats a great point, going out and grabbing a big name, via draft or free agency at RB will be tough to keep, when you think about all the young defensive stars we would like to keep for a long time...Ii for one would like newman, ware, and roy to retire as cowboys but who knows how that works out...


although i pose the question, just because a RB has shared the ball thus far into his career, does that necessarily mean he cannot carry a load by himself?
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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it doesn't mean he can't, it just means he's unproven.

I personally think that getting a RB in round 1-3 next year is a good idea, IF we can also address CB and WR at the same time.

Getting McFadden may sound great but I've argued against it due to the 'opportunity cost' of drafting a RB with Cleveland's pick.
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Here's what I think of our RB situation. It is good, but not great. Does it have to be great? Do we have to have a household name RB with his name in flashy lights in order to be a championship team? No, I don't think so. ...and really, I don't want so.

The way our team is built, we cannot afford it. We have a TON of young guys who we will want to keep in the future. Having a RB that will command top dollar is something we cannot afford. Otherwise, we will lose someone or someones that we don't want to. The duo of JJ and MB3 works well. The hard part is... JJ needs his carries in order to be that back that we all came to love in the beginning. He won't get it so long as MB3 is around. MB3 doesn't need the carries to be efficient. He's been sharing carries for a long time leading back to college. He knows how to prep for it, be ready for it, and how to make an impact when he gets in. That's why we see that guy shooting out of a cannon ball every time he touches the ball. He's tailor made to be in a RB by committee.

What I think our RB situation needs is one more solid back to emerge. If either JJ or MB3 goes down with injury, all of sudden our RB situation becomes an emergency. If JJ goes down, MB3 will not have the same effect that he has now. If MB3 goes down, we lack that guy we can count on for power running and are left with a lot of question marks in JJ.

So yeah, I think we're one RB away from having a "great" RB attack. The RB by Committee approach is smart because it gives us depth and keeps RB salaries relatively low.
That can be said with all of the other positions on our team. Having depth and another guy who can pick up the slack with little dropoff in overall production is always great at any position. But as far as our RB situation, we have some intriguing candidates for the 3rd RB spot. I'm not as high on Tyson Thompson as other are, and yes I'm going to use the one-dimensional argument on this one. Blazing speed obviously, but hasn't shown enough when it comes to overall RB ability. A guy I really like is Battle, big guy, great speed, I just hope we'll get a chance to see him in the pre-season. Deon Anderson as well.
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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I think that Tyson Thompson is very expendable with Miles Austin returning kicks for us. I'd rather see a more multi-dimensional player like Battle instead of Thompson.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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That can be said with all of the other positions on our team. Having depth and another guy who can pick up the slack with little dropoff in overall production is always great at any position. But as far as our RB situation, we have some intriguing candidates for the 3rd RB spot. I'm not as high on Tyson Thompson as other are, and yes I'm going to use the one-dimensional argument on this one. Blazing speed obviously, but hasn't shown enough when it comes to overall RB ability. A guy I really like is Battle, big guy, great speed, I just hope we'll get a chance to see him in the pre-season. Deon Anderson as well.
Yeah, I'm talking about depth, but I'm also talking about what it would take to get our running game to the next level. To that elite level. That seems to be the whole issue about targeting a guy like McFadden, like many of you do. What I'm saying is that I am against that idea. Will I cry if it happens, why no. But there will be some significant draw backs. Getting a little better in the running game at the cost of losing a lot elsewhere, is not something that I am a proponent of.

RB is potentially an extremely deep position in next year's draft. I don't want to draft any RB in round 1 with either of our 2 picks. I still believe that LT will be our #1 concern to address in the offseason. I don't want to resign Flozell top dollar to come back. He's just in the twilight of his injury riddled career already. If we can get a LT like Jake Long or Sam Baker with Cleveland's pick, we'd really be sytlin'. ...and with our 32nd pick (haha), I'd love a beastly OG. THEN, I'd be a very happy man. We can go RB, WR, or NT in round 2 and beyond and be good to go for another run at the Superbowl.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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I think that Tyson Thompson is very expendable with Miles Austin returning kicks for us. I'd rather see a more multi-dimensional player like Battle instead of Thompson.
I agree. I love Austin and think he has #1 WR potential. I may be the only one here that thinks that, but I do.
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Look, I don't want McFadden, I'll make that known right now,. We don't need him at all. As far as what D-Unit has said about the need for a third back, I think a third will emerge this year. Either Tyson or Battle, it really depends on who runs better in training camp. Tyson's ability to return kicks won't help him too much anymore with other guys on the roster that can do that; so, he must focus on being a RB, and if Battle is the better RB in camp, I want him. Tyson has an uphill climb IMO. However, I think Tyson can be a good RB. I recall last year, BP saying that he would love to use all 3 RBs, but Tyson was hurt, which strained our RB depth; so Tyson can run, and BP knew that. I think the battle 3rd string RB battle (no pun intended) will be the best in camp, and I think whoever comes out on top as a RB, nothing else, will win the spot.

D, what you said about Austin having the potential to be a #1 gets me thinking... can he be a #1. I really don't know. We heard a lot about him in camp, but when preseason came around it was Sam Hurd, not Austin who put on a show. Miles may make the roster as a KR, but I think the talent at WR right now is incredible, and he may have to go to the practice squad. I want to see him perform in preseason.

As for the general talent at WR, I'd like to talk about it. What is this roster going to look like there? Well, we all know Owens and Glenn will be on the roster, as well as Crayton. Hurd will make the roster. That's 4 already! Even if we keep 6 WRs on the roster, we're going to lose some talented players. OK, so let's assume 6 WRs (which could very well happen). Stanback should make the roster. His development should be a top priority of this team.

1 more... and lots to choose from. Miles Austin could make it as a KR, but he has to make progress as a WR to have a sure spot on this roster IMO. Jamel Richardson is very talented, and could turn out to be a star IMO. He should get some serious consideration. Jamaica Rector is a hell of a player, as we saw last preseason. He's really the only extremely agile WR other than Glenn we have. Could he just see the practice squad again? It's tough to say. He could get the call if there's any injuries. Jerheme Urban could surprise, but I don't see it. PS? Mike Jefferson is talented and was as productive as productive gets in college. He has a shot, and Jerard Rabb could turn some heads in camp. It's very crouded... I hate that we don't have room for all this talent on the roster.
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Well, I'm not saying Austin will be the #1 WR next year. Down the line, I do think he has that type of ability. He's got the speed, size and athleticism. It's the hands and route running that I want to see develop. At the very least, I think his floor is as a #2 WR in the future. Moreso than Crayton. I think Crayton is a #3 as long as he's in the league.

You're right though. It won't be an easy battle getting there... mostly because of his reputation coming into the league as an UDFA.
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Old 07-13-2007, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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i think crayton has #2 ability, he gets better every year and has thus far...


and im not sure what most you guys think about our KR between tyson and austin...both did very well but i think tyson did a better job and id prefer him to start...he wasnt scoring td's every few weeks, but he did a great job at getting us past the 20 yd line when he had the opportunity
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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Looking at our quarterback situation, all I wanna say is I hope Romo doesnt get caught with cocaine.

Brad Johnson as our starter scares me.
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Old 07-14-2007, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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Looking at our quarterback situation, all I wanna say is I hope Romo doesnt get caught with cocaine.

Brad Johnson as our starter scares me.
I actually feel comfortable with Johnson because of his smarts and career winning percentage. ...I wonder if Stanback wouldn't get a shot at it....
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Old 07-15-2007, 07:09 AM    (permalink
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I'm sure everyone here knows it, but set the TiVo for the 30th on NFL network. They are showing the Cowboys Training camp.

As for Brad Johnson, well every team in the league would be upset if they had to rely on their backup QB for an extended period. We're no diffierent.

That being said, at least he's a proven NFL quarterback.

Personally, I'm not nearly as sold on the WR situation as you guys are. I think we need a #1 WR from the draft next year because I don't think Austin, Hurd, Crayton, or anyone else for that matter on the team (other than TO and Glenn) could be a #1 in this league.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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D-Unit, I see what you meen about Austin, but I still really want to see some perfomance in game-type situations in preseason. As for him being a #1, I'm really just not sure. I also agree about Crayton, I don't think he's a #2 guy. I think #3 is all he'll ever be, especially considering he's 28 and he's most likely reached his full potential.

I agree wih LSU to a degree. I think future #1 may be a problem. I think Hurd can be a #2, I'm not really sure about Austin, and with all the talented depth on this roster, I still don't really know if there's a guy who can be that #1 WR. You guys might remember around draft time, I was pulling hard for Dwayne Bowe. I think he's going to be great. So, hopefully with one of our 1st round picks, we'll go after a WR. If you go CB and WR in the first next year (I know it's early) I'll be happy. Excuse my fettish for LSU WRs, but I'd absolutely love to have Early Doucet...
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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I surprised to see the WR talk. I'll go away from the norm as I tend to do from time to time. Whats the point of saying #1 WR. We run a 2 WR set with a 3rd WR on occasion. We run a timing offense now. I really dont' see what numbers next to WR's mean. If both are similar than don't you just throw to who is open. Is WR 1 the primary target more often. I don't buy any of that on this team. TO and TG are both great targets and I dont' see one getting targeted more than the other. Sure maybe TO in the redzone but thats about it. But what I do love about TO and TG is the difference they play the position. TO is a smash mouth I'm gonna run through you type WR. TG is your shifty WR that is going to make you miss. Both are clutch guys..how many times has TG made that catch that makes you say did he really just do that. Now I know we are talking about the future but that had to come out first.

Now lets look at the future. We have Crayton who peaks as a #2 in this league...great hands a guy who will catch almost anything. Sam Hurd another guy who likely peaks as a #2 WR great hands but not the speed. But wait I don't believe in number WR's :P Let me say it in my words now.

Crayton will never be at the level of a guy like TO or TG...he is just our hands guy. Hurd is much the same which is why I really didn't want to see us go into this season with both guys on the roster. But too late for that now.

We have 2 firework guys that need tons of development. Austin and Stanbeck have the size hands, athletic ability to be one of the top WR's in the game. Yet they are both very Green. So I'm going to say that they would be able to be in a base offense set if one of the develops by the time TO/TG leaves.

Now the real question is...what are we missing in the future that we have now? Oh ya...our shifty guy cough*ginn*cough. Oops I got sidetracked again. But this is exactly what I want. I want TG's clone. Someone who maybe doesn't have the great size but has a great lateral step...and a great burst. This class seems to be filled with those type of guys...so I'm getting excited for the next draft already. But when talking WR's of the future...I think it almost has to be a shifty guy.
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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DeSean Jackson, Thule :)? Fits the "shifty" guy mold perfectly. I would love it, but again it's only July so let me just get off that until at least November. I'm not as excited as some are of Austin, Hurd and Stanbeck. They all have the measurables and potential, but hasn't shown me anything significant to get me all riled up about them. I hope they do in training camp and in the preseason. But for this year's out look I feel more then confident with guys we have at WR. The two vets of course and the sure handed Crayton, and hopefully one of the young guys can show signs of being more then just size and speed.

Oh the first Pre-season game is like 25 days away. F'n YES!
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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If the Browns pick is in the top 10....I have my eyes on the following

Really Excited
(Jr) Kenny Phillips, Miami Fl); our stud at FS
(Jr) DeSean Jackson, California; my ideal pick..shifty WR

Moderately Excited
(Jr) Darren McFadden, Arkansas; dynamic runner
Early Doucet, LSU; a guy who would go hand in hand with Crayton and company in the future
Jake Long, Michigan; a answer at tackle although I'm not sold we need a tackle yet

Top of following - One of these will be top 10 material by the end of the season.
Dwight Lowery, San Jose State;
(Jr) Malcom Jenkins, Ohio State;
Antoine Cason, Arizona;
(Jr) Aqib Talib, Kansas

All these guys could contribute right away. But I'm really nervous with our Tackle situation. We two picks on two guys that fit exactly what we need. Is Free ready for LT in 08...I'm not sure...but who is to say a guy like Long or Baker could do a better job. This is what worries me. My vote of confidence tells me to wait on a tackle...unless we prove we have noone even remotely to handle the LT spot.
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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i can see us going offense with both first rders nxt draft...with as many as we have invested in the defense past years, WR and RB seems likely, unless fergy doesnt do as expected we could go after a large body up the middle...
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Old 07-15-2007, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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I surprised to see the WR talk. I'll go away from the norm as I tend to do from time to time. Whats the point of saying #1 WR. We run a 2 WR set with a 3rd WR on occasion. We run a timing offense now. I really dont' see what numbers next to WR's mean. If both are similar than don't you just throw to who is open. Is WR 1 the primary target more often. I don't buy any of that on this team. TO and TG are both great targets and I dont' see one getting targeted more than the other. Sure maybe TO in the redzone but thats about it. But what I do love about TO and TG is the difference they play the position. TO is a smash mouth I'm gonna run through you type WR. TG is your shifty WR that is going to make you miss. Both are clutch guys..how many times has TG made that catch that makes you say did he really just do that. Now I know we are talking about the future but that had to come out first.
A #1 receiver is the type of player that takes pressure off of other players because a defense has to adjust to him being on the field. Whether it's double coverage on some plays or even just shifting the coverage towards him, a #1 receiver attracts the attention of the defense to help create mismatches. Having safeties worried about a deep threat can open up a lot in the running game or for a TE working underneath. I suppose technically you can have a successful offense without a true #1 threat (Kansas City), but everything becomes so much easier with a #1 who can force a defense to do something it doesn't want to do.
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Old 07-16-2007, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Desean Jackson is the man. Ginn is NOTHING like him.... though those comparisons won't ever stop. Jackson is actually a very polished WR where Ginn was nothing but an athlete.

I love Jackson.... BUT... I'm not a believer in spending a 1st round pick on WR. The bust factor is high, the development is slow... but most of all, NFL teams have proven that they can win without great WRs. I'd much rather favor FA or the 2nd round and beyond to address WR.

OL, CB, DL or S have to be strongly considered.
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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I think we have plenty of talent at wr, also. I would hate to use a high 1st round pick on a wr next year. If there is a nt worthy of that pick, that's where I would go.

And also, I wanted to explain why I was talking about McFadden earlier. I think our rb's are fine, but McFadden would be an upgrade over JJ. D-Unit brought up the point that McFadden would come at a high cost, and I was not considering that when we were talking about McFadden a few days ago. Its a good point. However, this far away from the draft, McFadden has to be one of the highest ceiling players on the board. I said I think we will take him because of the Arkansas connection. Not that I would take him, myself (although I would not be upset.)

As potentially deep as the draft for running backs will be next year, there will be good runningbacks in later rounds...
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:28 AM    (permalink
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Also wanted to bring this to yall's attention. On the NFL forum, there was a thread about the most versatile players. Deion Sanders was mentioned, and several people posted how he was not versatile. They said he was a cb, kr and pr, and the comment was made that many players do that.

I cant beleive how quickly people forget! I immediately posted that in 1996, he played both ways. Not that he was the most dangerous wr in the league, but come on!!! He played every freaking down, offense, defense, and returned punts!!!! He was the second leading receiver on the team that year, and was the shut down corner. Do any of you remember this?

Even if you cant stand Deion, that was an amazing year he put together. Physically, it is almost unbelievable in this day and age.
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:01 AM    (permalink
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I think that most offenses need a #1 WR to help the team stretch defenses. You could argue that with a top of the line QB you don't need a #1 WR based on the success of New England, Philly, and KC's offenses. However, I think that having a great WR can help a QB that isn't top 3-5 like say Steve Smith helps Delhomme or Randy Moss helped Dante Culpepper.

I think that in today's NFL, it's much harder to score consistantly without a dynamic passing offense. New England, Philly, and KC all have a dynamic passing offense, even if they don't have a #1 WR type (this coming year in NE will change their status in this club).

San Diego is a good example of how you can build a team with a McFadden type player. Their offense is great but they don't have a WR threat. They do have a very dynamic passing game with LT and Gates though.

There are definitely two ways to skin that cat, but personally I'd love to keep our RB situation like it is and upgrade the WR with young talent.

LT may be a concern but I think with McQuistan and Free the team figures we have enough talent if Flo leaves. Now if Baker or Long is there and we move McQ inside with Free at backup LT then that's an idea also.

This year's draft will be very entertaining and of course we'll have to see what develops over the year to see what we do or don't need.
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Old 07-16-2007, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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An offense's best friend is a premiere LT. Depending on how Flozell plays this year, I think Jake Long could be a possibilitiy for Dallas. If Romo is the man you hope for him to be, you wouldn't mind having a potential premiere LT protect his blindside for the rest of his career.

Dallas has tons of options this year in the draft with their 2 #1 picks. I personally didnt like their draft much after the 1st round this year, but getting 2 1sts in next year's talented draft was good enough for Jones to get a passing grade in my eyes.

Im a fan of Craytons. I think he can be a solid #2 in this league if given the chance. Its far too early to say what needs to be done though, we haven't even started the season yet.

My initial belief however is that the Cowboys should go after either Jake Long or Sam Baker.
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:14 AM    (permalink
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I actually liked the draft better after the first round. I didn't want Spencer nearly as much as everyone else. I like the pass rush emphasis but I just don't know if Spencer is the guy. But, I trust that Wade Phillips knows what a 3-4 OLB needs to be able to do and worked him out accordingly.

I liked the Free, Martin, and Stanback picks. I'm not going to suggest that these are perennial all pro players , but they fit the needs of the team and were cheap. I wanted a CB and would much rather have drafted Eric Wright in round two instead of trading down, but whatever.
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