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Old 02-25-2008, 05:39 AM    (permalink
shane_man
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Another thing to consider with our cap situation is the possibility of trading up one or two spots using both our first rounders to do so and accumulating a first round pick NEXT YEAR... I think that would definately be something we might look at. And I doubt that sort of trade would involve an NFC team... I would be looking at a team like the Houston Texans at 18... They get the 22nd and 29th overall. We get the 18 and whatever they have next year...

That would be for no other reason then to possibly relieve cap tension for this year.

Obviously I think we have alot of directions we can go with these picks but we didnt have THAT many holes when the season ended and I still dont think there are that many holes now. Certainly not enough to be throwing first round $$$ at rookies who probably wont start on Offence or Defence for at least 12 months.
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SweatThePipe View Post
As a 13-3 team, we can't go changing up the O-Line. It is important to keep this group in tact. Maybe upgrade Kosier, but even that is iffy.
But you have to consider that Flozell is getting old. I like him, I have always liked him, but signing him isn't going to be cheap for anyone. So you have to consider that signing him to a multi-year and big contract could be a risky move. Sometimes you have to let a guy go and trust the young guys.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Hah! And what would be Jones' plan for our best defensive player, Ware?
DeMarcus can play DE or OLB in a 4-3. He is a world class athlete and a great team player. But fact is the personnel moves (or lack of) on the Defense are not classic 3-4 moves.

Your starting SS is not a 3-4 SS.
Your NTs is not a 3-4 NT.
Your new ILB is not a 3-4 ILB.

... and if you get a first round corner to push Wade's man schemes you are pushing away form the zone based schemes which tend to play important roles in traditional 3-4 alignments.

I don't pretend to understand too well the Hybrid Schemes folks mention with Wade but it sure looks more and more like 4-3 personnel ... which I think would be great for the skill sets / experience of Roy Williams, Kevin Burnett, Tank Johnson, Ratliff, Spears, Carpenter.

One person's view.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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The funny thing is Thomas broke down tape of teams he felt like he fit...and he came here because he could start and that the scheme fit his style of play....Bradie James talked about it last year...the difference for him between schemes...and he talked about how it was different not having to take on OG's in the hole and shed...that now he was able to roam from sideline to sideline....that screams Zach Thomas to me....I don't think for a second Thomas would have came here if he didn't think he would make a difference...nor do I think we would sign him.

Jones also was gushing about his defensive staff he has aquired going as far as saying it's one of the best he's ever felt about....and Capers is really the only guys that doesn't have familiarity with the rest of them...JJ simply stated that although the coverages have to compliment your defense it's not reliant...see below or exact wording.

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"The facts are, you have much more continuity in philosophy than we had last year," Jones said. "Todd is, philosophically, with the way Wade likes his philosophy with defensive line play. Reggie is right on the money with what we want to do with our linebackers. They have worked together, they have worked philosophically together.

"Obviously, (defensive coordinator) Brian (Stewart) is there. And Dave Campo has absolutely, with the experience he's got back there, got the ability to plug in. 3-4 is not about, to a large degree, your secondary. Now should it complement it? Yes. But 3-4 doesn't mean you wouldn't see some 4-3 teams doing the same thing in the secondary.

"Frankly, last year, that's where we had a lot of our carryover withour coaches. That was no accident that they had only one year remaining on their contracts. That didn't have to be that way, I didn't have to let it be that way. I wanted it to be that way because I wanted Wade and all them to see how that worked. What we're doing now is we're starting this year with much more continuity at every position coach than we had last year."
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Your NTs is not a 3-4 NT.


... and if you get a first round corner to push Wade's man schemes you are pushing away form the zone based schemes which tend to play important roles in traditional 3-4 alignments.
For the first one, this is not what Wade Phillips, a 34 guru, thinks.
And I don't understand the logic in the second one... So drafting a talented CB in the first means that we're pushing away from what?!
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Saying that we are gearing up for a change back to the 4-3 because of Thomas is stupid. He has nothing to do with our long term future.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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For the first one, this is not what Wade Phillips, a 34 guru, thinks.
And I don't understand the logic in the second one... So drafting a talented CB in the first means that we're pushing away from what?!
Um, in no specific order ....

1) I am no expert at the 3-4 but I know enuff to know the 3-4 lends itself to playing more zone coverage.

2) The player personnel decision being made in Dallas are not classic roster building moves for a 3-4. The players are a better fit in a 4-3. I don't think this controversial.

3) How Wade plays his 3-4 different than Belichick I dunno exactly but I know a few here have said he runs a modified 46 moreso than 34.

So if Dallas goes out and get classic bump-man CB, keeps Roy Williams, plays Zach and Tank, cuts Ayodele and Ferguson and trades Carpenter ....... You end move further away from the classic Parcells, Belichick, LeBeau 3-4 to something closer to a 4-3, 4-6, whatever.

Not sure what the controversy is. You can't argue WP is making the team lighter and using more protype 4-3 packages. Why is this such an issue??? WHo cares what you run as long as it works. Right???????
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Saying that we are gearing up for a change back to the 4-3 because of Thomas is stupid. He has nothing to do with our long term future.
No one said that. Learn to read. Zach is just data point supporting the trend I outlined in player personnel decisions in Dallas.

And, I think Jerry Jones is intelligently pushing this through b/c

1) Wade wants it this way so why not support the coach
2) Roy Williams and few others fits the 4-3 better.
3) If Wade is fired and Garrett logically gets the job then you need a DC -- which would be easier to find for a 4-3. There are just not a lot of good 3-4 DC who are not Parcells or Belichick cronies.......

Got it?
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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The funny thing is Thomas broke down tape of teams he felt like he fit...and he came here because he could start and that the scheme fit his style of play....Bradie James talked about it last year...the difference for him between schemes...and he talked about how it was different not having to take on OG's in the hole and shed...that now he was able to roam from sideline to sideline....that screams Zach Thomas to me....I don't think for a second Thomas would have came here if he didn't think he would make a difference...nor do I think we would sign him.

Jones also was gushing about his defensive staff he has aquired going as far as saying it's one of the best he's ever felt about....and Capers is really the only guys that doesn't have familiarity with the rest of them...JJ simply stated that although the coverages have to compliment your defense it's not reliant...see below or exact wording.
Hey Thule, I read what Jerry said but frankly whatever .....

Coverage Packages in a 3-4 where your OLB are 270 lbs and ILB are 250lbs MUST BE VERY DIFFERENT than a 4-3 where the OLB is 235 lbs and ILB is 245lbs. Come on, we all know that.

Yes, Cover 1 Man is Cover 1 Man .... uh no friggin duh Mr Jerry Jones.... but when playing 3-4 you call certain coverages more than others. 3-4 lends itself to zone, 4-3 to man.

4-3, the SS plays more run support. 3-4 less run support.

3-4 FS better be able to pick up a WR man if a RB/TE is put in motion and you are not in nickel. 4-3 FS not so much b/c the OLB at least can hold his own a couple of seconds.

The physical dimensions of the LB in a 3-4 v 4-3 makes a huge difference in player personnel and schemes for the DB Corps. Again, nothing revolutionary here but important subtlety in my book.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Has there been a Rob sighting lately? Sure do miss that guy.:p
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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Another thing to consider with our cap situation is the possibility of trading up one or two spots using both our first rounders to do so and accumulating a first round pick NEXT YEAR... I think that would definately be something we might look at. And I doubt that sort of trade would involve an NFC team... I would be looking at a team like the Houston Texans at 18... They get the 22nd and 29th overall. We get the 18 and whatever they have next year...

That would be for no other reason then to possibly relieve cap tension for this year.

Obviously I think we have alot of directions we can go with these picks but we didnt have THAT many holes when the season ended and I still dont think there are that many holes now. Certainly not enough to be throwing first round $$$ at rookies who probably wont start on Offence or Defence for at least 12 months.
i understand ur thinking but to me it doesn't seem that you guys are that
far off from being in the superbowl. looks like ur in great position to pick up 2 crucial pieces where u r in the first round.
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by kingjames View Post
No one said that. Learn to read. Zach is just data point supporting the trend I outlined in player personnel decisions in Dallas.

And, I think Jerry Jones is intelligently pushing this through b/c

1) Wade wants it this way so why not support the coach
2) Roy Williams and few others fits the 4-3 better.
3) If Wade is fired and Garrett logically gets the job then you need a DC -- which would be easier to find for a 4-3. There are just not a lot of good 3-4 DC who are not Parcells or Belichick cronies.......

Got it?
1. Wade wants it this way? Are you kidding me? He is a 3-4 coach. That is what he does. That is his defense. He isn't and wouldn't switch to a 4-3.

2. Roy Williams doesn't fit any scheme. He's not a 4-3 safety. Did you just make that phrase up? I've never heard it before. Probably because it doesn't exist. He sucks because he is a fat pig.

3. If Wade gets fired, Brian Stewart will be fired too. Dom Capers will leave his "assistant" job in NE and come to Dallas as the DC. Garrett has already previously tried to get Capers to be his DC if he were to take on a HC job.

Got it?
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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1. Wade wants it this way? Are you kidding me? He is a 3-4 coach. That is what he does. That is his defense. He isn't and wouldn't switch to a 4-3.

2. Roy Williams doesn't fit any scheme. He's not a 4-3 safety. Did you just make that phrase up? I've never heard it before. Probably because it doesn't exist. He sucks because he is a fat pig.

3. If Wade gets fired, Brian Stewart will be fired too. Dom Capers will leave his "assistant" job in NE and come to Dallas as the DC. Garrett has already previously tried to get Capers to be his DC if he were to take on a HC job.

Got it?
1) Wade is not a true 3-4 coach. Remember modified 46 ..... 1-Gap, not 2. Press Man ... all that stuff.

2) Roy Williams is a better fit in a 4-3 where the LB are lighter, cover better and need more help in run support. Whatever the Roy hating is about .... point is to get as much from him as possible until other options are possible.

3) Did you consider that Capers would not come to Dallas? Maybe Garrett would like somebody else or maybe Jerry would? Maybe Capers gets another job? Maybe he stays in NE?

You seem angry. Lighten up. It is not controversial at all to say Dallas's personnel is starting to fit a 4-3 moreso than classic 3-4. It is also not controversial to say sourcing D staff for a 4-3 is easier than 3-4.

To sit here and say Dallas is moving away from the Parcells D&O philosophy and that player personnel is changing is common sense even if too subtle immediately to grasp.

This subtle change however is a MAJOR change IMHO in Dallas and a very interesting transition. No one scheme is better than others but it does require different types of players .... and that is the fun part in playing GM on a Website.

G'Luck.,

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Old 02-27-2008, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Yea were switching to the 4-3, right after McFadden falls to 22 remember? Hows that looking like its going to fall into place? Were not switching to a 4-3, your theories are just something you conjure up and none of them have any credibility.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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Yea were switching to the 4-3, right after McFadden falls to 22 remember? Hows that looking like its going to fall into place? Were not switching to a 4-3, your theories are just something you conjure up and none of them have any credibility.
So many ways to address this ...

1) Stop sweating McFadden. You don't see him falling. I can see him easily falling. Only time will tell. Just a function of the DD process working and teams getting freaked enuff to pass. He is a talent. Not saying otherwise. Reggie Bush was a talent too ..... and a likely mistake which many foresaw in spite of the teenager-type hype.

2) It takes imagination and analysis to forecast change. Take it FWIW but these changes in player personnel and direction of the team is real but yes I see 4-3 more and more in Dallas land.... just look at the number of times 4 guys went into a 3 point stand in comparison to 2006. That will only increase as you try to get your best players on the field.

So much hatin'. You have a fine team. No need to get in a twizzy. Again, who cares what schemes as long as the players produce and Dallas has some amazing personnel for a 4-3 (and 3-4). Good job by Jones getting talent.
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Bill Parcells ran a nickel defense over 50% of the time in dallas....which required 4 guys in a 3-point stance...I wouldn't necessarily say it went up since Wade ran about 50% dime packages.
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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1. Wade wants it this way? Are you kidding me? He is a 3-4 coach. That is what he does. That is his defense. He isn't and wouldn't switch to a 4-3.

2. Roy Williams doesn't fit any scheme. He's not a 4-3 safety. Did you just make that phrase up? I've never heard it before. Probably because it doesn't exist. He sucks because he is a fat pig.

3. If Wade gets fired, Brian Stewart will be fired too. Dom Capers will leave his "assistant" job in NE and come to Dallas as the DC. Garrett has already previously tried to get Capers to be his DC if he were to take on a HC job.

Got it?
Wade Phillips is always a 3-4 coach Burns is right. But by 4-3 safety i believe he means a better fit, because in a 4-3 there is not as much deep coverage responsibility. #-4 makes roy play a lot of zone which in the 4-3 there isn't as much as for him. Also in the 4-3 he played closer to the line basically a linebacker's responsibilty for roy when we played in a 4-3. And when Phillips leaves i agree stewart is out too. Capers in there this year would have been sick, but he respects Stewart enough not to screw him over for his job.
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Marion Barber was tendered today for only a first, and if not trade for is scheduled to make a little over 2 mil. instead of the predicted 1st and 3rd round tender.
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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So many ways to address this ...

1) Stop sweating McFadden. You don't see him falling. I can see him easily falling. Only time will tell. Just a function of the DD process working and teams getting freaked enuff to pass. He is a talent. Not saying otherwise. Reggie Bush was a talent too ..... and a likely mistake which many foresaw in spite of the teenager-type hype.

2) It takes imagination and analysis to forecast change. Take it FWIW but these changes in player personnel and direction of the team is real but yes I see 4-3 more and more in Dallas land.... just look at the number of times 4 guys went into a 3 point stand in comparison to 2006. That will only increase as you try to get your best players on the field.

So much hatin'. You have a fine team. No need to get in a twizzy. Again, who cares what schemes as long as the players produce and Dallas has some amazing personnel for a 4-3 (and 3-4). Good job by Jones getting talent.

Im not sweating mfcadden, just thought Id point out that it was also your theory he falls to 22, which your still standing by right? Because its not like your in the minority, your the only one alive who thinks he will fall to 22, thats what I would consider "hatin", I just wanted to make sure your stance didnt change since he put up better numbers at the combine then peterson did, we all know he wont fall to 22 but I understand if you want to hold your ground for now...Keep on pointing out guys like Bush please, because that helps your point and all seeing as how Bush was considered a huge slide going from 1 to 2, and peterson wouldnt of went past 10, you have a guy with more upside potentially then either, yet he falls to 22


And as far as a switch, what do you think Capers has more experience in? He's a 3-4 guy, he's probably going to be our D Coordinator when Garrett takes over, so why would we take all the personell we have on d now and scrap that, to run the 4-3 with Capers?
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Bill Parcells ran a nickel defense over 50% of the time in dallas....which required 4 guys in a 3-point stance...I wouldn't necessarily say it went up since Wade ran about 50% dime packages.
BP ran 50% of his D snaps in Nickel and WP 50% in Dime? Do you care to re-think that? Maybe 3rd Down only....

But no, WP runs the OLB out of the three point stance more than BP. Parcells was in fact murdered for being a bore and staying in base too often, like New Orleans. When Parcells did run more 4-3 was when Ellis went down and he could not get the same OLB pass rush from Carpenter. He went to a 4 DL more often but moreso from need than desire.

Anyway. The central point is WP does run a lot more 4-3 and is more creative than BP in schemeing. Give him credit, the D played lots better in 2007 with a green DC.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Dupe sorry.

Last edited by kingjames : 02-27-2008 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Im not sweating mfcadden, just thought Id point out that it was also your theory he falls to 22, which your still standing by right? Because its not like your in the minority, your the only one alive who thinks he will fall to 22, thats what I would consider "hatin", I just wanted to make sure your stance didnt change since he put up better numbers at the combine then peterson did, we all know he wont fall to 22 but I understand if you want to hold your ground for now...Keep on pointing out guys like Bush please, because that helps your point and all seeing as how Bush was considered a huge slide going from 1 to 2, and peterson wouldnt of went past 10, you have a guy with more upside potentially then either, yet he falls to 22
You are one "off field incident" away from late 1st material. And frankly, I don't give crap what others think in terms of DMac. I watched him since he was a Frosh and I know he is very good. I also know he is no better than Reggie Bush, and Bush was not worth a top 15.

So, that GMs and teenage boys get man crushes on exciting players I get it but fact is they are rarely as good as advertised. But one year after Peterson now everyone thinks the next hot RB will do as well ...... rarely does this happen.

Give DMac props for the 4.33. Helped him separate from Mendenhall in some folks eyes. But I rather get Chris Johnson at 4.24, put him in a two back set, bulk him up 10 pounds, get him early second and still run past DMac.

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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
And as far as a switch, what do you think Capers has more experience in? He's a 3-4 guy, he's probably going to be our D Coordinator when Garrett takes over, so why would we take all the personell we have on d now and scrap that, to run the 4-3 with Capers?
I don't think you appreciate the fact your D personnel in Dallas is so good you could run 4-3 today NO PROBLEM............ why you would scrap anyone other than maybe Fergie and definately Ayodele is beyond me. All your starters and many backups are so talented they could play 4-3 no issues.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:27 PM    (permalink
Burns336
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Originally Posted by GDWTheSickness View Post
Marion Barber was tendered today for only a first, and if not trade for is scheduled to make a little over 2 mil. instead of the predicted 1st and 3rd round tender.
Do you have a source for this? I've seen it written in other places but haven't seen a link.

I can't understand why we would do this? There really is no explanation for this unless we plan on getting rid of him or Jerry is trying to get a team to give up another first so he could trade two 1's for McFadden and still have another 1st left over for CB??
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Do you have a source for this? I've seen it written in other places but haven't seen a link.

I can't understand why we would do this? There really is no explanation for this unless we plan on getting rid of him or Jerry is trying to get a team to give up another first so he could trade two 1's for McFadden and still have another 1st left over for CB??
Me too, iv'e seen it posted in Football's Future and another place. I guess it would only make sense if we were planning on trading him. Possible suitors i think would be The Bears, Cardinals, Houston, Bucs(maybe?), Titans, Seahawks, and others. IDK i sure hope we keep him, but this kind of makes me wonder. I'm still kinda upset no long term deal was worked out, but as a fan you know just gotta wait and see and hope for the best.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Caution to the wise. Stop spinning your heads.

Jerry Jones waited to sign Romo and it worked out to perfection. There's actually no real reason to sign him long term now before the start of FA. A long term deal could be worked out during next season and by then, our RB situation could be completely different. Barber is riding the hype of last season's break out performance, pro bowl appearance and is penciled in as the lone full time starter. His contract demands must be an all time high. Now if Jerry waits... Barber will most likely be back as a RB in a committee splitting carries and may not even be the star RB on the team. God forbidding, but what if Barber gets injured? Bottom line is that paying Barber now is not as smart as signing him later.

Cool your jets.
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