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Old 11-29-2006, 03:19 AM    (permalink
thule
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Originally Posted by fryman
I was going to post this in my first post, but i decided to leave it out.- I think we should wait until next year to go after a top WR in the draft. They would see limited time for probably a couple years. Also the only round 1 WR that I would want is Calvin Johnson, and that isn't going to happen.

I think most people agree that we need to bring in another speed guy with Glenn getting up there in years, and Robert Meachem would be a great target next year. I highly doubt he comes out this year.
Remember how all of use worried about not having a speed guy a year or two ago. How Glenn was good but if something happened to him we'd be f'd. Well for some reason that has went on the back burner....Crayton/Hurd aren't burners....Austin is fast but not really a burner. I wanna see us get a speed guy. If we have any shot at Ginn I want him.
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:25 AM    (permalink
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I love draft convo! You guys are putting together some really nice posts!

A lot of good points made.

I wanna playmaker in Round 1. I'm not a fan of our OL, but they can wait. Look at Robert Gallery, Alex Barron, D'Brickashaw Ferguson... They just don't have enough significant impact.

Right now, I'm riding high on Reggie Nelson.
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:30 AM    (permalink
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I love draft convo! You guys are putting together some really nice posts!

A lot of good points made.

I wanna playmaker in Round 1. I'm not a fan of our OL, but they can wait. Look at Robert Gallery, Alex Barron, D'Brickashaw Ferguson... They just don't have enough significant impact.

Right now, I'm riding high on Reggie Nelson.
Landry > Nelson.
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:30 AM    (permalink
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I was going to post this in my first post, but i decided to leave it out.- I think we should wait until next year to go after a top WR in the draft. They would see limited time for probably a couple years. Also the only round 1 WR that I would want is Calvin Johnson, and that isn't going to happen.

I think most people agree that we need to bring in another speed guy with Glenn getting up there in years, and Robert Meachem would be a great target next year. I highly doubt he comes out this year.
Remember how all of use worried about not having a speed guy a year or two ago. How Glenn was good but if something happened to him we'd be f'd. Well for some reason that has went on the back burner....Crayton/Hurd aren't burners....Austin is fast but not really a burner. I wanna see us get a speed guy. If we have any shot at Ginn I want him.
Yeah I realize that, as I mentioned we need a speedy receiver in my post, but I just don't really like Ginn.

I would love to get Meachem though. :D
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:15 AM    (permalink
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I was going to post this in my first post, but i decided to leave it out.- I think we should wait until next year to go after a top WR in the draft. They would see limited time for probably a couple years. Also the only round 1 WR that I would want is Calvin Johnson, and that isn't going to happen.

I think most people agree that we need to bring in another speed guy with Glenn getting up there in years, and Robert Meachem would be a great target next year. I highly doubt he comes out this year.
Remember how all of use worried about not having a speed guy a year or two ago. How Glenn was good but if something happened to him we'd be f'd. Well for some reason that has went on the back burner....Crayton/Hurd aren't burners....Austin is fast but not really a burner. I wanna see us get a speed guy. If we have any shot at Ginn I want him.
Yeah I realize that, as I mentioned we need a speedy receiver in my post, but I just don't really like Ginn.

I would love to get Meachem though. :D
I guess I'm lost at how you cannot like Ginn..his speed has shown second to none so far. I am expecting staggering numbers at the combine from him. He has that sixth gear that not many others have. The best part about him...is that he has so much untapped potential..he could one day step in as a number one target. I really don't see Meachem as a number one in 3 years. Ginn has the potential to be as big of a gamebreaker as Steve Smith.

The big part of drafting a WR...is finding someone who will eventually fill our number 1 roll on this team. Right now we have one young guy that could do it. Miles Austin...and I don't feel like putting my eggs in his basket until he shows something. Thats why if we have a chance to land someone with the potential of Ginn...not only could he one day be our number one...but he also can contribute right away on special teams as a return man. Something we don't exactly have. Newman is good but if he went down....our defense would be in awhole different world. Whereas if Ginn was back there...you would be losing your slot reciever at best. This is what i'm looking for in my first round pick. Someone who can contribute to this team early....yet solidify a spot for the future.
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:28 AM    (permalink
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I think we can pick a goo CB or WR in the second round too.. The two players I really like are Limas Sweed and Daymon Hughes.. I think they are 2nd/3rd round projects right now, and they have huge potential.

FS has been our biggest problem on defense since Woodson retired (do you remember when we started Lynn Scott?) so i'm for takin a stud FS in the first. Watkins has potential, but imagine a guy like Nelson near Roy Williams. They will be the best safety combo in the league, and they'll allow us to be very aggressive with our front seven..
Sweed is about a 10% chance of comming out from what i've read...not likely at all.

Hughes is good but would you rather have McCauley for potential purpuses? What makes you favor Hughes of McCauley.
I do not prefer Hughes, I only think that McCauley will be a first rounder, Hughes a second.. And I prefer to spend a second round on our future nickel/dime CB and use the first on a safety or a badass OL..
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:39 AM    (permalink
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anyone else concerned with ginn's size? Hes gotta be the most twig like player ive watched all year, i just couldnt see him taking a full load at the next level. I dont think you should draft a reciever in the first, or second for that matter, unless you think they could take a number 1 or 2 spot someday and not have injury problems. He's quick and has all the moves at the college level.. but lets not forget, reggie bush did too and look what happened there. I wouldnt expect ginn to have as big of an impact in the return game at the next level. I havnt seen ginn play much, but how are his hands? The guy has speed and that undeniable, but troy williamson has speed and his hands are a huge liability. I wouldnt be happy unless we got someone like Calvin, which wont happen, and maybe Dwayne Jarret depending on how fast he is. I wouldnt want another possesion reciever. If its not one of those two guys i think we should go safety in the first unless there is some outstanding NT but from what i understand, none of the NT's really warrant a 1st round choice. We could pick up a good cb in the the second or third and then pick up some o-line guys after that.

I just think if we got Nelson, he would be the missing piece in this defense. Landry is great, but if we drafted a safety i would want him to be a pure FS. We have roy, so we dont need another hitter, and from what ive read, Nelson has a slight edge in the pass defense category which is what we really need at that spot. Plus he can return punts which fixes the problem of having Newman getting hung out to dry.
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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I think we can pick a goo CB or WR in the second round too.. The two players I really like are Limas Sweed and Daymon Hughes.. I think they are 2nd/3rd round projects right now, and they have huge potential.

FS has been our biggest problem on defense since Woodson retired (do you remember when we started Lynn Scott?) so i'm for takin a stud FS in the first. Watkins has potential, but imagine a guy like Nelson near Roy Williams. They will be the best safety combo in the league, and they'll allow us to be very aggressive with our front seven..
Sweed is about a 10% chance of comming out from what i've read...not likely at all.

Hughes is good but would you rather have McCauley for potential purpuses? What makes you favor Hughes of McCauley.
When do these underclassmen need to make a decision by?
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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I think we can pick a goo CB or WR in the second round too.. The two players I really like are Limas Sweed and Daymon Hughes.. I think they are 2nd/3rd round projects right now, and they have huge potential.

FS has been our biggest problem on defense since Woodson retired (do you remember when we started Lynn Scott?) so i'm for takin a stud FS in the first. Watkins has potential, but imagine a guy like Nelson near Roy Williams. They will be the best safety combo in the league, and they'll allow us to be very aggressive with our front seven..
Sweed is about a 10% chance of comming out from what i've read...not likely at all.

Hughes is good but would you rather have McCauley for potential purpuses? What makes you favor Hughes of McCauley.
When do these underclassmen need to make a decision by?
I think it was Jan. 15th last year.


I don't really like Ginn. I'm not sure what it is, but he just doesn't look smooth enough to be a WR. I don't think he'll be anything other than a special teamer and a guy who runs deep every play.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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I think you guys are selling both Hurd and Austin short here. I mean, if you've ever heard BP talk about Austin, you know that the kid has to have some serious physical gifts. He didn't even come close to playing during the preseason, didn't show much of anything during training camp, and still they kept him on the active roster! And this is coming from a coach who has made it abundantly clear that he is not into "buying futures".

Right now, my two favorite prospects of this team are Austin and McQuistan, with Hatcher a close 3rd. I think at least one of those guys develops into an above average starter at his position. And Austin does have speed, don't sleep on him.

Plus, we are solid at WR for a minimum of 2 years after this one. We have Crayton as a good, solid 3rd guy....I don't know where guys are coming from with this talk. If there is a guy that we simply can't pass up, like a Ginn or Jarrett, then we take him and feel good about it, but there is no way that we are in need of getting a top young guy. HE WOULDN'T EVEN PLAY for the next 2 years. Hell, with all the crap Carp has gotten for not playing much in just the 1st half of his rookie season, you guys are sure eager to go and grab a 4th string guy with this year's pick. C'mon, get real.

I don't know about all y'all, but I'm still smarting from being outmanuevered for Shawn Andrews back in 04. To me, Justin Blalock is the closest thing to him that I've seen since, right down to the ability to play RT if necessary. To me, our draft board says Justin Blalock.....and then everyone else. If we have a shot at him and we don't get him, I will be supremely upset.

However, I would like to offer a word of caution with all this Rivera hating. His contribution to this team has really been sold short. He has played a big role in the development of Gurode this season, as well as Colombo, and he is smart and really brings that bunch together. Besides, he has been pretty damn good this season, for the most part. People just get it in their heads that he isn't playing well, and then that is just how it is, without any proof. I don't know how many people here get to watch the games every week, but I have watched and Tivoed every game, and seen every one at least twice, and I've noticed him consistently getting good push in the run game and looking nimble and spry on his pulls. I'm confused where people get their crap from.

Overall, I still think we go RB if there is a top notch guy there. I like the idea that another poster came up with of sending JJ to a team like GB in a trade up deal. I would positively cream if we could get Marshawn, baby. But, if no RB is available that we be a major upgrade, then I like us to simply get the best player there, or maybe trade our 1st for a future 1st like we did in 04....but that would require a trade partner, of course. Any way you slice it, whatever happens will probably take us by surprise.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Ratliff and Hatcher have been HUGE for you guys this year.

I agree, the Cowboys 1st choice is pretty clear, and thats Blaylock.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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I love draft convo! You guys are putting together some really nice posts!

A lot of good points made.

I wanna playmaker in Round 1. I'm not a fan of our OL, but they can wait. Look at Robert Gallery, Alex Barron, D'Brickashaw Ferguson... They just don't have enough significant impact.

Right now, I'm riding high on Reggie Nelson.
Landry > Nelson.
As an NFL prospect, yeah I agree, he'll be graded higher. For our needs... I believe Nelson would suit us better AND he could actually be on the board when we pick. Landry will be gone in the top 15.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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I love draft convo! You guys are putting together some really nice posts!

A lot of good points made.

I wanna playmaker in Round 1. I'm not a fan of our OL, but they can wait. Look at Robert Gallery, Alex Barron, D'Brickashaw Ferguson... They just don't have enough significant impact.

Right now, I'm riding high on Reggie Nelson.
Landry > Nelson.
As an NFL prospect, yeah I agree, he'll be graded higher. For our needs... I believe Nelson would suit us better AND he could actually be on the board when we pick. Landry will be gone in the top 15.
Nelson covers better and is just a better playmaker. He has that "it" factor to him that doesn't show up in the stats or combine. Personally, if I had a choice, my FS is there to cover, so I take Nelson over Landry. He can also play CB, which only adds to his usefullness.

According to Scott though, he's a top 10 pick now. Look at the new mock. Nelson has soared, and Landry has fallen to the 20s.

So we're not the only ones who feel this way.

To sum it up.

Nelson = Ed Reed
Landry = Sean Taylor

Im not saying theyre the same level prospects, Im just comparing their styles. I personally think the FS is meant to cover and be a ballhawk moreso than a hard hitter.

The only thing Landry has on him is size and hitting. Nelson is the superior coverage talent. I take Nelson.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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I was going to post this in my first post, but i decided to leave it out.- I think we should wait until next year to go after a top WR in the draft. They would see limited time for probably a couple years. Also the only round 1 WR that I would want is Calvin Johnson, and that isn't going to happen.

I think most people agree that we need to bring in another speed guy with Glenn getting up there in years, and Robert Meachem would be a great target next year. I highly doubt he comes out this year.
Remember how all of use worried about not having a speed guy a year or two ago. How Glenn was good but if something happened to him we'd be f'd. Well for some reason that has went on the back burner....Crayton/Hurd aren't burners....Austin is fast but not really a burner. I wanna see us get a speed guy. If we have any shot at Ginn I want him.
Yeah I realize that, as I mentioned we need a speedy receiver in my post, but I just don't really like Ginn.

I would love to get Meachem though. :D
Ginn will also not be on the board when we pick. There are only a few WRs worth a first round pick. CJ, DJ, Samardzija, Ginn and Rice. Out of those only Ginn is a true burner. I don't know that we'll be able to fill that "burner" role with a WR in the first round. We could address WR, but it's highly doubtful that that guy will be Ginn.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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what postion do you guys thinkyour gonna take in the 1st day?
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Here's a situation.

Say we're picking at 26 and we think someone at 19 is going to pick Blalock. Would you guys be in favor of trading up to get him?

Last week I probably would have said no because I really don't like trading up, but if we don't really have any needs and we decide he's the player we want I think we should do it.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I think we can pick a goo CB or WR in the second round too.. The two players I really like are Limas Sweed and Daymon Hughes.. I think they are 2nd/3rd round projects right now, and they have huge potential.

FS has been our biggest problem on defense since Woodson retired (do you remember when we started Lynn Scott?) so i'm for takin a stud FS in the first. Watkins has potential, but imagine a guy like Nelson near Roy Williams. They will be the best safety combo in the league, and they'll allow us to be very aggressive with our front seven..
Sweed is about a 10% chance of comming out from what i've read...not likely at all.

Hughes is good but would you rather have McCauley for potential purpuses? What makes you favor Hughes of McCauley.
I do not prefer Hughes, I only think that McCauley will be a first rounder, Hughes a second.. And I prefer to spend a second round on our future nickel/dime CB and use the first on a safety or a badass OL..
Daymeion Hughes is my favorite CB in college right now. McCauley imo is so overrated it's hilarious. He gets burnt BADLY. If he were half as good as the hype he gets, Fresno wouldn't be as terrible as they are this year. He definately doesn't shut down his side of the field. I can tell you that much. If he can't do it against Hawaii and Boise.... He won't do it against the Eagles, Giants, and Redskins.

Hughes is a great corner. Good things happen on defense when QBs throw the ball his way.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jdallas
Here's a situation.

Say we're picking at 26 and we think someone at 19 is going to pick Blalock. Would you guys be in favor of trading up to get him?

Last week I probably would have said no because I really don't like trading up, but if we don't really have any needs and we decide he's the player we want I think we should do it.
Ben Grubbs would not be that bad of a 2nd round pick

or maybe Michael Griffin 2 years in a row with 100+ tackles

home town native nice hands 7or8 picks in last two years
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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DMW I agree that we have a good young core at WR. But my question to you is what happens if Glenn goes down. He has been injured alot in his career...and this other problem that just popped up could take him out for his career...depending on how long. We have to look at it. Who in the hell is our speed guy. Our ability to stretch the defense deep would go down alot. I mean Crayton at the 2 spot with TO in the slot with Hurd as the number 1 on three wr sets probabally wouldn't scare anyone. Sure we have a great chance at making the catch...but the would likely bring the safety's up and now not only is there more people in the 10 yard span...it also becomes harder to run. We need a speed guy who can contribute on special teams right away...and be our insurance plan behiind glenn. If we land a guy like lee higgins in the second so be it. But Ginn's potential is about as high as you can get in this draft...to have him in our future would be very nice. It also wouldn't hurt ot have a guy like Glenn/TO tutoring him. Glenn came from osu..so there are some ties there beside the way they play.

You have watched every game. Well then I'm sure you would agree if there was one OLman that got pushed into the backfield 5-10 times it would be rivera. He is still ok when pulling although he whiffs from time to time...but when asked to attack one on one he is not as powerful as he once was. He is our biggest liability on the OL. I'm not saying he is the worst RG in the league...but if there was one positon to upgrade it would be RG. Not only that he is up there in years...do you really see proctor as his replacement?

I meantion GB...not sure what we would have to give up to move up that far...but I was actually talking about picking up a 2nd rounder for JJ...but I suppose he could be good bait for moving up.

My ideal trade would be JJ a 2nd and one of our young WR...a hurd/crayton/austin for there top 10 pick. I think everyone here knows who I would select. But I think if there is one guy in this draft that we love....we have to trade up....we have above average depth at many spots. Pick out a late round gem and we're set.

Only thing that would worry me is give up a 2nd and then already having spent our 3rd on Brown
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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what postion do you guys thinkyour gonna take in the 1st day?
That's the million dollar question.

I think you have to look at the BPA that fills a need versus, deciding on a position and possibly having to reach on a guy simply because he fills that position.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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1st Round
Michael Griffin : Safety | Senior | Texas
(Height: 6-0 | Weight: 205 | 40-Time: 4.45)

2nd Round
Ben Grubbs : Offensive Guard | Senior | Auburn
(Height: 6-3 | Weight: 318 | 40-Time: 5.15)

3rd Round
Chris Leak : Quarterback | Senior | Florida
(Height: 6-0 | Weight: 207 | 40-Time: 4.75)
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdallas
Here's a situation.

Say we're picking at 26 and we think someone at 19 is going to pick Blalock. Would you guys be in favor of trading up to get him?

Last week I probably would have said no because I really don't like trading up, but if we don't really have any needs and we decide he's the player we want I think we should do it.
It all depends... I wouldn't be upset trading up for Blalock, because we know what we're getting and we need someone like him. But at the same time, I don't think it would be worth losing picks for. If it was a leftover player like Ellis then I could deal with that... the FA crop has a bunch of "good enough" OGs available and OG can be addressed outside of round 1. As much as possible I want to keep our picks.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdallas
Here's a situation.

Say we're picking at 26 and we think someone at 19 is going to pick Blalock. Would you guys be in favor of trading up to get him?

Last week I probably would have said no because I really don't like trading up, but if we don't really have any needs and we decide he's the player we want I think we should do it.
It all depends... I wouldn't be upset trading up for Blalock, because we know what we're getting and we need someone like him. But at the same time, I don't think it would be worth losing picks for. If it was a leftover player like Ellis then I could deal with that... the FA crop has a bunch of "good enough" OGs available and OG can be addressed outside of round 1. As much as possible I want to keep our picks.
If we don't address RG in FA...my question become who will be the leader on the ol....Koiser...sounds scary.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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It does always seem that best guards in the NFL tend to go in the late 1st round to mid 2nd round area. You can get servicable starters later but the true top tier guys seem to go in that area. Here is a consideration? Was Eric Steinbech resigned by the Bengals? He could be an extremely nice addition to your team.
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Old 11-29-2006, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Why do we need this "pure cover" guy at FS? Certainly you guys remember Darren Woodson, the converted linebacker? You don't need to be a converted corner to play free safety in the league, you need to be smart and make good decisions which is how Woodson made it work for himself. Landry is the better prospect in every way over Nelson, but maybe he'll run a slower 40. Don't be fooled. Landry has a body of work, whereas I've only heard of Nelson starting in the 2nd half of THIS SEASON. Buyer beware.
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