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Old 10-27-2008, 03:23 PM    (permalink
thule
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OT: Is it me of does Tank Johnson NOT take the proper gap when rushing the passer? I was kind of sick to see Garcia have a few wide open looks at Tankie pooh was busy trying to go through the 5 gap as opposed to the 3 gap on a few occasions.
I also wondered this. Now I've never seen Tank have a problem shooting his gap....it usually was a probably overshooting his gap. And we'll obviously never know if he was suppose to shoot the A gap or not.

My thought is that since we lined our DT's in the nickel in the 3 tech....that their natural responsibility would be the B gap...which would lead me to believe that a ILB or OLB was suppose to fill both A gaps...on a delay.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Wrong.

I was at the game on the opposite side of that play and had a clear view across the field on that play. TO had seperation and the pass was underthrown so TO has to slow just a bit and that gave the DB time to recover. It's not just his arm strength; it's also him being a tick too slow. He needed to throw that pass just a tick sooner and with more zip on it. He did neither.

And as someone mentioned, We left at least two TDs on the field, with the miss of Miles being the biggest. He was all alone running down the middle of the field.
Time to recover? He looks pretty tight on him the entire way. Brad's arm isnt great but, he put it in a position where T.O. could have caught it. It was still out in front, credit goes to Talib for reading T.O.'s eyes and blindly putting his hands up. That was not a bad throw. T.O. has to slow down for the majority of the deep balls he catches, even w/ Romo out there. It was more of a great defensive play more than anything.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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What has John done to deserve a job like that?

Frankly, going to Princeton is not a qualification for a football job and I think we have enough wet behind the ears, "nice" guys in this coaching staff IMHO.
How exactly was Jason Garrett qualified or deserving? Coaches get promoted from these smaller position coach positions all of the time. John is another one of those impressive young coaches, who has a better track record than his brother. He's in line to be heavily considered for the job. It may be Jason's choice, and you want someone that you can know you can trust. I'm sure he'll be lobbying for his brother.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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It was a good play by the DB, but TO did have to slow down slightly and there was good seperation there momentarily, but it took the ball too long to get there.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Austin 1-on-1 running a post is a throw every time. He missed him twice yesterday. Heck even Romo misses him alot. But yeah, one play he had like 3 steps on the DB and Brad checked it down. I felt like chopping Brad's nuts off -- it is not like he needs them for anything.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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How exactly was Jason Garrett qualified or deserving? Coaches get promoted from these smaller position coach positions all of the time. John is another one of those impressive young coaches, who has a better track record than his brother. He's in line to be heavily considered for the job. It may be Jason's choice, and you want someone that you can know you can trust. I'm sure he'll be lobbying for his brother.
Um, Jason was not qualified and herein lies a problem we have. In fact, Jason only had two years experience as a QB Coach and in those two years his QBs sucked. Again, he may be "smart" but I know plenty of smart screw ups who can't do anything right. Problem with "smart" people is they over analyse things, make simple effective things complicated and hard, rarely admit thier analyses or choices are wrong and frequently think they are smarter than the other guy. But they sound great on TV!!!!!!!

Second, promote John? Again based on what? Hard Knocks. ROTFLMAO!!!! John has ZERO accomplishments to his name.

Listen Sparano did a great job and was demoted. Frankly, I have had enuff politics with Jerry Jones and his chia pets to last me a football life time.

Memo to Jerry: Get a real coordinator and stop trying to pump up your dubious choices (Garrett) or going back to the well for retreds (Houck and Campo) ..... Wanna make him HC? Great do so but find capable OC/DCs. And John Garrett would be dubious at best given the fact he is going from TE Coach (one step above QC) to Coordinator.

Really Good OC Coordinators are usually QB Coaches or Passing Game Coordinators b/c this is where the magic/complexity/hard stuff lies. A TE Coach is a joke (Sorry)

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Old 10-27-2008, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Austin 1-on-1 running a post is a throw every time. He missed him twice yesterday. Heck even Romo misses him alot. But yeah, one play he had like 3 steps on the DB and Brad checked it down. I felt like chopping Brad's nuts off -- it is not like he needs them for anything.
Well, I already sayed the problem is def. more his checking down more so than the actual strength of his arm....and they dont exactly go hand and hand either...because, he can make those throws, he just doesnt feel like it I suppose, hell if I know. I dont know what happened to Brad along the way but, he seems scared to take any real shots these days.

Back to arm strength...So, it's not as good as most QBs but, it's not a major problem either. Look at Pennington, he's always criticized here but, he can make all the throws. His arm hasnt even looked bad when throwing the deep ball...nor has Brad's. But, the difference is that Chad actually looks down the field.

I will say this, though. Brad's mechanics do seem off. Could be that he is trying to add a little more velocity or he is just rusty as hell but, he's not playing up to his capabilities. Granted he may not be much better than this but, he should be atleast a little better. He's dropping his elbow a lot for some reason and there you get your under and over throws that we've been seeing.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Um, Jason was not qualified and herein lies a problem we have. In fact, Jason only had two years experience as a QB Coach and in those two years his QBs sucked. Again, he may be "smart" but I know plenty of smart screw ups who can't do anything right.

Second, promote John? Again based on what? Hard Knocks. ROTFLMAO!!!! John has ZERO accomplishments to his name.

Listen Sparano did a great job and was demoted. Frankly, I have had enuff politics with Jerry Jones and his chia pets to last me a football life time.

Memo to Jerry: Get a real coordinator and stop trying to pump up your dubious chocies (Garrett) or going back to the well for retreds (Houck and Campo) ..... and John Garrett would be dubious at best given the fact he is going from TE Coach (one step above QC) to Coordinator.

Really Good OC Coordinators are usually QB Coaches or Passing Game Coordinators b/c this is where the magic/complexity/hard stuff lies. A TE Coach is a joke (Sorry)
I know Jason wasnt exactly qaulified...that was my point. Jerry loves Jason and will probably let him choose his coordinator. John is easily the guy Jason trusts the most and probably knows his system better than any other coach on the staff. (not that, that is a good thing) Now, I have been calling for a veteran, it really does make an enormous difference out there. So, I'm not giving John a glowing recommendation, I'm just pointing out the fact that his name will be in the mix. It is almost a certainty...unless of course Jason was to leave elsewhere, which isnt going to happen. But yeah, give me a veteran any day.

Now, in fairness to John...he comes from a football family, went to an Ivy League school, was an NFL WR receiver, worked under Al Groh as an assistant HC, has coached Qb, Wrs, and Tes, and he has seen player production go up everywhere he has coached. He's a good coach who looks to have a bright future. If he is what we have to settle for, I wont be that upset but yes, I want a veteran first and foremost.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Well, I already sayed the problem is def. more his checking down more so than the actual strength of his arm....and they dont exactly go hand and hand either...because, he can make those throws, he just doesnt feel like it I suppose, hell if I know. I dont know what happened to Brad along the way but, he seems scared to take any real shots these days.

Back to arm strength...So, it's not as good as most QBs but, it's not a major problem either. Look at Pennington, he's always criticized here but, he can make all the throws. His arm hasnt even looked bad when throwing the deep ball...nor has Brad's. But, the difference is that Chad actually looks down the field.

I will say this, though. Brad's mechanics do seem off. Could be that he is trying to add a little more velocity or he is just rusty as hell but, he's not playing up to his capabilities. Granted he may not be much better than this but, he should be atleast a little better. He's dropping his elbow a lot for some reason and there you get your under and over throws that we've been seeing.

I would also say that I think they could live with BJ if a bit of a weak arm was his only issue.

However, at this point in his career not only is his arm not that strong, he is not making quick reads and his accuracy has been horrible. He's missed quite a few throws that have nothing to do with strength. I mean a TE runs 6 yards down the field and turns around, and BJ can't hit him.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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[quote=johnstonolb;1282770]Um, Jason was not qualified and herein lies a problem we have. In fact, Jason only had two years experience as a QB Coach and in those two years his QBs sucked. Again, he may be "smart" but I know plenty of smart screw ups who can't do anything right. Problem with "smart" people is they over analyse things, make simple effective things complicated and hard, rarely admit thier analyses or choices are wrong and frequently think they are smarter than the other guy. But they sound great on TV!!!!!!!


UMMM HELLO POT!
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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[quote=pocketaces;1282849]
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Um, Jason was not qualified and herein lies a problem we have. In fact, Jason only had two years experience as a QB Coach and in those two years his QBs sucked. Again, he may be "smart" but I know plenty of smart screw ups who can't do anything right. Problem with "smart" people is they over analyse things, make simple effective things complicated and hard, rarely admit thier analyses or choices are wrong and frequently think they are smarter than the other guy. But they sound great on TV!!!!!!! UMMM HELLO POT!
Aces, what are you writing about?

OT: MOTH, we are in agreement on the coach issue. That Jason likely pushes his brother is logical but the wrong choice IOHO.
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Hey Thule, what differences were there with Wade calling the defense compared to Stewart?

Did you guys run more press man? More blitzes? Zone blitzes? Robber etc? Im curious to know what differences there were. I didn't get to see the game.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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Hey Thule, what differences were there with Wade calling the defense compared to Stewart?

Did you guys run more press man? More blitzes? Zone blitzes? Robber etc? Im curious to know what differences there were. I didn't get to see the game.
We played a ton of man coverage this game. Something that we haven't been doing enough of. Unfortunetly Wade still plays his corners 8 yards off the ball about 50% of the time...which was about the only complaint cowboys fans could come up with.

Another thing that didn't show up a lot during the game but did in the replays was the safety opposite of Hamlin playing a deep center field. This is something we had been doing occasionally but it seemed like we did this all game...which is what I attribute not getting beat deep all game too.

Hamlin played a ton of man coverage....which is a slight difference than the past. We had been playing a lot of cover 2 with our safeties this year...and I didn't see hamlin in that role much this game...on the contrary Hamlin was up near the LOS a handful of times...and got pressure on a huge third down play.

But perhaps the biggest difference on the field for me was the fronts dallas showed on third down. Now I only watched the game once, so I'm just going by what I saw live...but I'd be willing to bet we had a corner pressing on atleast one side of the field on 75% of third and less than 5 plays. This is something that Stewart hardly ever did. And what is even more impressive is that we did this with our bottom three corners. Our third down defense was huge.

We played a bend don't break defense....if you had to nitpick you'd say dallas allowing the quick passes in the first half. But dallas did a great job in the second half of desguising rush packages. Several times in the first half Ware would drop off and stop the quick slant. Corners started playing overly agressive on the quick hitch....and for the most part did a great job tackling in one-on-one situations in space.

The biggest difference imo was the execution. Now wade talked during the week about simplifying stuff and making it less complicated...if that was in fact what he did it worked. Dallas played a near perfect game.

Dallas also played to keep Garcia in the pocket...now we played our nickel scheme a bit different having our DT's play the 3 tech...which lead to some failed rush assignment lanes early on...but that wasn't much of a problem at the end of the game.

It also helps that Ware/James/Thomas played the best games of the year. Ware didn't record a sack but he was disruptive all game. James played good man coverage...and we always seemed to play a inside out coverage to help him out with Hamlin.

I don't have a stat handy but I'd be willing to bet dallas has a top 5 red zone defense. Now TB only has the 29th rated RZ offense...but Dallas has been strong there all year. This has been huge for dallas keeping games close in the past weeks.
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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M.O.T.H. talking about Talib? NICE!

A lot of other fans on the Bucs official board said the same thing about that specific play M.O.T.H.. Terrell's eyes were read by Aqib.

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Old 10-27-2008, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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Time to recover? He looks pretty tight on him the entire way. Brad's arm isnt great but, he put it in a position where T.O. could have caught it. It was still out in front, credit goes to Talib for reading T.O.'s eyes and blindly putting his hands up. That was not a bad throw. T.O. has to slow down for the majority of the deep balls he catches, even w/ Romo out there. It was more of a great defensive play more than anything.

I bet he appreciates Romo even more after this little experiment is over with.


I don't know if anyone caught MN countdown earlier but they showed alot of film from our game, and you could see how impressive Jenkins looked on a few different occasions on the field...He is getting comfortable out there and starting to just play, a few sacks we got were coverage sacks where Jenkins held his man long enough and Garcia ran to the right then slid down.


I really love how him and Scandrick have shown up, we knew this would likely be a problem and surprise surprise, both Henry and Newman are hurt again, when is the last time both weren't hurt at the same time is the better question...If they have to start again next week so be it, it all starts up front and if we can mix it up and get pressure they can be more aggressive.
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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Actually, Henry and Newman have never both missed a game at the same time. Before last year, Newman had never missed a game, period. Henry, now...he's just a matter of time, so I'm with you there. But Newman's newfound injuryproneness (I just made that word up :) ) is a surprising development to me.

As for Dallas' D this game....I didn't think we played that much more man. But I do think that we were more effective when we did. I don't know that I'd say we played a near perfect game. Rather, we played solidly--considering the circumstances--and the Bucs failed to make good on a few key opportunities.

I do agree about your assessment with the LBs, though, Thule. Both Zach and Brady played their best games to date, and DeMarcus was disruptive all game. He had Garcia in his arms TWICE this game for sacks and the damn guy threw it as he was falling to the ground. If that is Griese, he has two sacks or more. Impressive effort by Jeff.

Our run D is what surprises me. We played as dominant a game vs. the run as I have seen all year long, anywhere, and that TB interior OL, with Sears, Faine and the dude from OK (what's his name again....I'm drawing a blank, but he was their 1st rounder two years back) has been as good as any in football. They got flat dominated by our DL. Ratliff is a joy to watch. The dude better damn well make the Pro Bowl this year. Him and Ware are the only guys that deserve even a mention, but both deserve to be there based on their play YTD.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:08 AM    (permalink
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Why so much "hate" about Jason Garrett?
I know he has been far from great this year but did we all forget what he was able to do last year? We had the second best offense in the NFL behind probably the best offense of the decade.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:59 AM    (permalink
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M.O.T.H. talking about Talib? NICE!

A lot of other fans on the Bucs official board said the same thing about that specific play M.O.T.H.. Terrell's eyes were read by Aqib.
More like Talib read TO's outstretched arms. It was a nice play, but TO had him beat and if any other QB besides Brad Johnson or Chad Pennington throws that ball, TO catches it in stride all the way to the endzone. Because it was underthrown, Talib was able to reach it. That was the one play that stuck out for him the whole game. The announcer commented on that on the replay. So of course it was easy to pick up and discuss. Again, it was a nice play, but they are taught to turn their head around in order to avoid pass interference calls. The fact that he didn't.... let's me know he still has more to learn.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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Actually, Henry and Newman have never both missed a game at the same time. Before last year, Newman had never missed a game, period.
I was talking about both of them being healthy at the same time, seems like we only have one or the other as of lately...I'll be interested to see if it happens this year because I've still got my concerns, supposedly Newman is back after the bye but we all know how that goes.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Does Bobby Carpenter ever play in the defensive rotation, or do you guys have the highest picked and highest paid special teams player of all time?
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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More like Talib read TO's outstretched arms. It was a nice play, but TO had him beat and if any other QB besides Brad Johnson or Chad Pennington throws that ball, TO catches it in stride all the way to the endzone. Because it was underthrown, Talib was able to reach it. That was the one play that stuck out for him the whole game. The announcer commented on that on the replay. So of course it was easy to pick up and discuss. Again, it was a nice play, but they are taught to turn their head around in order to avoid pass interference calls. The fact that he didn't.... let's me know he still has more to learn.

You're right Dunit, as I said earlier, I was at the game and had a great view of that play. TO had him beat by a couple of steps but the ball was late, underthrown and no zip. When I saw the play developing, I, along with everyone, started to stand up because there was so much daylight between TO and Talib, we were all getting ready to witness a huge play. But that little hesitation TO had to make and having to reach back for the ball was the split second Talib needed.

I will say this about Talib, he looks like a stud. He is huge; so is Piscatelli. Their secondary is full of big rangy guys.
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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Is anyone else getting a strangely good feeling about this upcoming game?

I mean, I've approached it in my mind as a sure-fire loss, probably even a blowout, and I'm already at peace with that should it happen....but there's just something about the reversal of roles that I see in this matchup. Now, we are the team that is being counted out, the team who noone is giving a chance to win, the team who can come out and play free-and-loose, throwing haymakers and making big plays.

I mean, it happens constantly: the team that is supposed to be completely outmatched comes out and smacks the favored team in the mouth early on. So why not us? Why can't the defense come out and force some big turnovers, or why can't we nail a big play against an unsuspecting secondary?

I am ready for us to get beat down, but I can't shake the feeling that we are going to be a lot better than everyone expects us to be.

Am I alone?
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"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 10-31-2008, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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Is anyone else getting a strangely good feeling about this upcoming game?

I mean, I've approached it in my mind as a sure-fire loss, probably even a blowout, and I'm already at peace with that should it happen....but there's just something about the reversal of roles that I see in this matchup. Now, we are the team that is being counted out, the team who noone is giving a chance to win, the team who can come out and play free-and-loose, throwing haymakers and making big plays.

I mean, it happens constantly: the team that is supposed to be completely outmatched comes out and smacks the favored team in the mouth early on. So why not us? Why can't the defense come out and force some big turnovers, or why can't we nail a big play against an unsuspecting secondary?

I am ready for us to get beat down, but I can't shake the feeling that we are going to be a lot better than everyone expects us to be.

Am I alone?
I wish I felt like you. I'm getting myself emotionally ready for at least a 2 TD loss. ...AT LEAST that. Probably way more.
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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I'll call the win right here and right now.

Expect to see a few different looks from our Offence in an effort to kill the Giant's lead in the NFC East. The fact that we haven't moved T.O and there have been very little in the way of quick drop passes makes me feel like Garrett is not throwing it all to the wall early. This game is pretty much MUST win for us. I expect him to throw some of that out at an unsuspecting Giant's D who wouldn't have had to gameplan for it given our lack of use of it this year.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Is anyone else getting a strangely good feeling about this upcoming game?

I mean, I've approached it in my mind as a sure-fire loss, probably even a blowout, and I'm already at peace with that should it happen....but there's just something about the reversal of roles that I see in this matchup. Now, we are the team that is being counted out, the team who noone is giving a chance to win, the team who can come out and play free-and-loose, throwing haymakers and making big plays.

I mean, it happens constantly: the team that is supposed to be completely outmatched comes out and smacks the favored team in the mouth early on. So why not us? Why can't the defense come out and force some big turnovers, or why can't we nail a big play against an unsuspecting secondary?

I am ready for us to get beat down, but I can't shake the feeling that we are going to be a lot better than everyone expects us to be.

Am I alone?
I have to say up until late yesterday I was willing to accept a loss. However, I feel like there is a good fighting chance for us to win. I'm not so worried about Brad Johnson this week, but rather our OL. If they can can keep Brad off of his back and block for Barbarian, then I think we have a great chance at winning.

BTW, when is Felix Jones supposed to be back?
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