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Old 12-04-2006, 07:46 AM    (permalink
LSUALUM99
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Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
First, the ball didn't even hit Wilson's hands. He jumped the route but didn't quite make it. So although it was a good play on Wilson's part, it wasn't like it bounced off his hands.

Second, Aaron Glenn dropped an Eli pass in the endzone. That could have been six or at least remove points from the board.
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I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.
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Old 12-04-2006, 07:46 AM    (permalink
dpl85
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Poet3334
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Originally Posted by sweetness34
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Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
That's a bunch of BS. If it was really a bad pass or decision it would have been intercepted or at least deflected, i'm not sure Wilson even touched the ball. It was a great play as it resulted in a first down at a critical point of the game, and that's the bottom line. Eli would have thrown two picks too if our D could actually catch the ball.
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Old 12-04-2006, 07:51 AM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Poet3334
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Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
That's a bunch of BS. If it was really a bad pass or decision it would have been intercepted or at least deflected, i'm not sure Wilson even touched the ball. It was a great play as it resulted in a first down at a critical point of the game, and that's the bottom line. Eli would have thrown two picks too if our D could actually catch the ball.
I agree. I was just pointing out that was the play Sweetness was talking about. Everyone has dropped INTs otherwise all the DBs would be WRs. And go back and watch the game by the way. The ball deflected off Wilson's fingers as it went right between his two hands. He did get his hand on it. I'm not sure if it was a great play. It was a lucky play but Eli got those too.
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Old 12-04-2006, 07:57 AM    (permalink
dpl85
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by dpl85
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Poet3334
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Originally Posted by sweetness34
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Originally Posted by Poet3334
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Originally Posted by sweetness34
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Originally Posted by Go Cowboys
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Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
That's a bunch of BS. If it was really a bad pass or decision it would have been intercepted or at least deflected, i'm not sure Wilson even touched the ball. It was a great play as it resulted in a first down at a critical point of the game, and that's the bottom line. Eli would have thrown two picks too if our D could actually catch the ball.
I agree. I was just pointing out that was the play Sweetness was talking about. Everyone has dropped INTs otherwise all the DBs would be WRs. And go back and watch the game by the way. The ball deflected off Wilson's fingers as it went right between his two hands. He did get his hand on it. I'm not sure if it was a great play. It was a lucky play but Eli got those too.
I don't believe in luck, you make your own luck. A wise man once said luck is what happens when preparation meets execution.
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Old 12-04-2006, 08:00 AM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by dpl85
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by dpl85
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Poet3334
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Originally Posted by sweetness34
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Originally Posted by Poet3334
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Originally Posted by sweetness34
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Originally Posted by Go Cowboys
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Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
That's a bunch of BS. If it was really a bad pass or decision it would have been intercepted or at least deflected, i'm not sure Wilson even touched the ball. It was a great play as it resulted in a first down at a critical point of the game, and that's the bottom line. Eli would have thrown two picks too if our D could actually catch the ball.
I agree. I was just pointing out that was the play Sweetness was talking about. Everyone has dropped INTs otherwise all the DBs would be WRs. And go back and watch the game by the way. The ball deflected off Wilson's fingers as it went right between his two hands. He did get his hand on it. I'm not sure if it was a great play. It was a lucky play but Eli got those too.
I don't believe in luck, you make your own luck. A wise man once said luck is what happens when preparation meets execution.
That is dumb. Romo doesn't prepare for Wilson to let an INT goes through his hands. It wasn't a great or smart throw, but it worked. That is lucky. Just like it was lucky when Glenn dropped Eli's throw.
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Old 12-04-2006, 08:03 AM    (permalink
dpl85
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by dpl85
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by dpl85
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Poet3334
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Originally Posted by sweetness34
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Originally Posted by Poet3334
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Originally Posted by sweetness34
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Originally Posted by Go Cowboys
[quote:7951c94578="CTCowboysFan"]Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
That's a bunch of BS. If it was really a bad pass or decision it would have been intercepted or at least deflected, i'm not sure Wilson even touched the ball. It was a great play as it resulted in a first down at a critical point of the game, and that's the bottom line. Eli would have thrown two picks too if our D could actually catch the ball.
I agree. I was just pointing out that was the play Sweetness was talking about. Everyone has dropped INTs otherwise all the DBs would be WRs. And go back and watch the game by the way. The ball deflected off Wilson's fingers as it went right between his two hands. He did get his hand on it. I'm not sure if it was a great play. It was a lucky play but Eli got those too.
I don't believe in luck, you make your own luck. A wise man once said luck is what happens when preparation meets execution.
That is dumb. Romo doesn't prepare for Wilson to let an INT goes through his hands. It wasn't a great or smart throw, but it worked. That is lucky. Just like it was lucky when Glenn dropped Eli's throw.[/quote:7951c94578]
No, lucky is when you win the lottery and never have to work again. That was a great play and pass. Romo said he saw Wilson at the last moment and threw it a little farther to the right side. Bottom lines is if yall had won I wouldn't be saying yall got lucky, I'd say we choked.
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Enough about that BS, that's a philosophical debate that's neither here nor there.

I think that game was the first where we really missed Greg Ellis' presence. Carpenter and Singleton didn't play very well at all and missed tackles and didn't get off blocks soon enough. I think we need to blitz a lot more than we are as D-Ware alone can't really get it done as he's gonna be double teamed constantly now that teams don't have to worry about Ellis. We're putting too much pressure on our secondary especially the safeties by not blitzing and not getting any consistent pressure on the QB. I think Parcells didn't blitz as much because he didn't really respect Eli's ability to hurt us but that was a mistake, we should have blitzed Eli just as much as Peyton.
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Enough about that BS, that's a philosophical debate that's neither here nor there.

I think that game was the first where we really missed Greg Ellis' presence. Carpenter and Singleton didn't play very well at all and missed tackles and didn't get off blocks soon enough. I think we need to blitz a lot more than we are as D-Ware alone can't really get it done as he's gonna be double teamed constantly now that teams don't have to worry about Ellis. We're putting too much pressure on our secondary especially the safeties by not blitzing and not getting any consistent pressure on the QB. I think Parcells didn't blitz as much because he didn't really respect Eli's ability to hurt us but that was a mistake, we should have blitzed Eli just as much as Peyton.
The problem with our 3-4 defense is that we don't have good blitzing ILB's. Take a look at the Steelers, Foote and Farrior are effective at blitzing from the middle.
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Usually I post the Giants persepective and Dallas persepctive in different threads, but I'll join them this time, this is a long write up, so it will follow this post.
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Old 12-04-2006, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Enough about that BS, that's a philosophical debate that's neither here nor there.

I think that game was the first where we really missed Greg Ellis' presence. Carpenter and Singleton didn't play very well at all and missed tackles and didn't get off blocks soon enough. I think we need to blitz a lot more than we are as D-Ware alone can't really get it done as he's gonna be double teamed constantly now that teams don't have to worry about Ellis. We're putting too much pressure on our secondary especially the safeties by not blitzing and not getting any consistent pressure on the QB. I think Parcells didn't blitz as much because he didn't really respect Eli's ability to hurt us but that was a mistake, we should have blitzed Eli just as much as Peyton.
The problem with our 3-4 defense is that we don't have good blitzing ILB's. Take a look at the Steelers, Foote and Farrior are effective at blitzing from the middle.
That's a good point but we don't seem to blitz our ILBs hardly at all maybe it's because there not very good blitzers but I'd still like to see us try it more. I think Ayodele can be a pretty good blitzer, he was a DE in college right?
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Old 12-04-2006, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Enough about that BS, that's a philosophical debate that's neither here nor there.

I think that game was the first where we really missed Greg Ellis' presence. Carpenter and Singleton didn't play very well at all and missed tackles and didn't get off blocks soon enough. I think we need to blitz a lot more than we are as D-Ware alone can't really get it done as he's gonna be double teamed constantly now that teams don't have to worry about Ellis. We're putting too much pressure on our secondary especially the safeties by not blitzing and not getting any consistent pressure on the QB. I think Parcells didn't blitz as much because he didn't really respect Eli's ability to hurt us but that was a mistake, we should have blitzed Eli just as much as Peyton.
The problem with our 3-4 defense is that we don't have good blitzing ILB's. Take a look at the Steelers, Foote and Farrior are effective at blitzing from the middle.
That's a good point but we don't seem to blitz our ILBs hardly at all maybe it's because there not very good blitzers but I'd still like to see us try it more. I think Ayodele can be a pretty good blitzer, he was a DE in college right?
He was, but keep in mind blitzing and pass rushing from a DE position are different. I think we just need to commit to blitzing more often.
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Old 12-04-2006, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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First off, that was a great game. I think the score was indicative of the game, Dallas just outplayed us and beat us 23-20. We had some stupid stupid penalties in the redzone that hurt us, but that seems to be a recurring theme with this team under Coughlin, so I don't know how much you can complain about that.

One thing that I noticed that is annoying me, is that both Cowboys and Giants fans on this board sometimes seem to have selective memory when evaluating the game. Come on, take it for what it was, stop being so damn partial.

I'll evaluate it in my usuall bulletin format. This post will be posted both in the Giants and Dallas team discussion.

- MBIII> Julius Jones. That might anger some, but he just is. JJ doesn't have much power, he's like Tiki Barber Lite, whereas MBIII can finish with power and run up the gut. He's also better in pass protection and great on screens and catching the ball. Also more reliable hands. He's not as explosive as JJ, but he runs for better average and in that system, he's a better player.

- I noticed a weakness with Dallas's pass coverage. The intermediate route. Dallas has a great secondary so the vertical ball is not easily accessible. They have good OLBs who can cover the flats so the flats aren't always accessible. But their ILBs and SOLBs are not great in coverage, and the intermediate route is open because of it. Either attack the LB zone or isolate one of their LBs and hit them up. Thats a weakness in their pass coverage. Dallas's LB core is built to stop the run, and because of that, they lack some speed against the pass. If you can harnish the intermediate route, you can attack this defense in the pass game. Theyre very stoute against the run though.

- Romo is slippery. You have to be clever in how you rush him. I think you have to blitz him from one side, and play containment on the opposite side. If you overload him on one side, he simply rolls out the other side and delivers the ball. If you send 5, he jukes the blitzer and hits his WR. So you gotta send 5 with containment on the opposite side of the blitz, or 6 with one blitzer coming from both sides. Pressure does effect him, so the key to getting at Romo is hurryiing him. I also noticed that he still needs to work on reading the defense. He hits his hot reads well, but he has trouble reading zone blitzes. He threw into our zone blitz every time...he's lucky only one of them winded up as an INT, and then even luckier that Kiwi fumbled it afterwards. Great qb who still needs some time to develop. He has great weapons around him, and a great gameplan that simplifies his duties, but I expect him to hit the tape next year and improve the mental aspect of the game. You don't notice it now because he's winning, but trust me, he's bound to have a bad day, and then you'll notice it.

- DeMarcus Ware's pass rushing has been disappointing. This might anger some guys, but let's face it, he's being outperformed by Merriman this year. I hate to beat a dead horse, but Merriman is easily the better pass rusher right now. Ware had no sacks, and no excuses for having no sacks. He had Whitfield with no help most of the game, and didn't do squat. Now of course his coverage and run stuffing were great, but let's face it, you got him to rush the passer. And he's been below average at doing it. He simply does not set up the blocker. He has 2 moves, the outside edge rush, and the bullrush. Thats it. He's so predictable, the linemen knows whats coming. And he doesn't have the motor that Merriman has. Is Merriman better than him right now? Id say a conclusive yes at the moment, with Ware having potential to be better later. But right now, the only resounding edge Ware has over Merriman is coverage, but who cares, you drafted him to rush, not cover. Merriman is near equal in run stuffing, and light years ahead in pass rushing. He has 10.5 sacks in 8 games this season. To me, he looks like he has potential to be the best OLB since Derrick Thomas. If he continues at this pace, he'll be the best OLB since Lawrence Taylor. Ware simply does not have those qualities right now, and while youre winning, you have to be somewhat disappointed in him in that regard.

- Shockey always has good games against Dallas. I think it goes back to your vulnerability against the intermediate route coupled with the fact that you have no safety who can cover the TE. Roy gets owned by him, he's simply not a coverage guy, so Dallas needs Carp to step it up and take his game to the next level. The Dallas D is vulnerable to the TE right now.

- For the Giants, playcalling on defense coupled with horrible safeties did us in. Let's face it Giants fans, our safeties are not good at all. They stink. Demps has done a terrible job this year wrapping up, and Wilson has been a complete disappointment. He hasn't done anything. His SS blitzes stink, he can't catch, he can't cover, he's not durable enough to play in the box all year round...we should not resign him. Ballhawk FS has jumped up to #1 on my board needs officially.

- Going back to defensive playcalling, it was atrocious. Ok, once in the 1st quarter, you guys came out in a 2 TE set on 3rd and 3, we came out in nickel 335! WTF? That was boneheaded as hell, naturally, MBIII runs up the gut for 15 yards. Another time, our 3rd down playcall was so blatantly dumb, that even Aikman commented on how easy it was for Owens to just run at the marker and turn around for the 1st. Tim Lewis simply put, is a moron, and shouldve been fired a long time ago. His playcalling in this game was mindboggling dumb.

- Having that said, its not just the playcalling, our safeties just stink as well. Tim Lewis's scheme asks alot out of its safeties in pass coverage, and we might have the worst pass coverage safety duo in the league. So couple dumb strategy with poor players, and thats what you get.

- Another testament to TL's stupidity. Why are we putting Pierce in Man Coverage with a TE? He's our run stuffing MIKE, he's supposed to drop in a middle zone in pass coverage, our SAM is supposed to cover those TEs, or if its the Hback, have a Safety cover him. Why is Pierce doing it? That was very dumb. If anyone should be man up in our defense against a TE, it should be one of our safeties, Short or Emmons. No one else.

- Offensively, I had almost no issues with playcalling. TC has done something this game that he hasn't done all year long....he adjusted his playbook. Ive always said that most of our woes was attributed to that horrible playbook. This week he gave Eli intermediate routes and checkdowns, and look at the results. Eli played a great game, he did not lose us this game. He did everything he could. In his 2 games against Dallas, he outplayed his brother Peyton against Dallas's defense. Anyone who thinks this kid is going to be a bust just doesn't have a good eye for talent. I think if we can stick with a normal playbook like we had this week, Eli will be consistant. And for those who thinks he just stares down Burress and lobs it up to him all day, put in tape of this game. He dished it out to everyone, and his numbers this year are indicative of that as well. And for the "supposed to have 2 INTS", please. If thats the case, then Romo shouldve had 4. So let's stop having selective memory. And one of the 2 supposed INTs was on the money had Barber not slipped and fell.

- The problem I had with offensive playcalling was the redzone playcalling. We get it on the 5 TWICE, and we don't give it to Jacobs at all. That was dumb. We give it to Jacobs, we win this game.

- I don't have a problem with the 4th and 1 call. Jacobs didn't get it, but that was a long field goal, and we needed a spark. Not mad at it. What I am mad about was the play. Its 4th and 1, and you call an offtackle run on Whitfield's side AT Demarcus Ware? That was stupid.

- The key to this game was our inabiity to captilize in the redzone. We either took ourselves out of it with penalites, or just didn't punch it in for TDs. That and our defense didn't play well.

- Osi was clearly not close to 100% for this game. He was more like 50%, its clear that he rushed back, but he had to. A 50% Osi is better than a 200% William Joseph.

- Kiwi is gonna be a special player in years to come. He lacks the strength to dominate this year, but in the offseason after getting thicker and stronger, he's gonna be GOOD. At this point in his development, he's better than Osi was. We're gonna have one heck of a pass rush for years to come.

- Madison is huge for us. He allows us to play more man coverage which is necessary for us. Our defense is built to be a man coverage defense, but we play mostly zone because...well...Tim Lewis, thats why.

Ultimately, this was a very close and exciting game with both teams playing great offense. Dallas slightly outperformed us, and they showed it in the scoreboard. I think if the Giants can make the playoffs, these 2 teams could possibly meet again. But thats a big if. Part of me wants to see us tank the season so we can replace the coaching staff, but the other part of me feels that if we can make it to the postseason healthy, we have just as good of a shot as anyone in this super weak NFC. We'll see how it goes from here on out.

Congrats on the win Dallas. To me, you and the Saints are the 2 best in the NFC.
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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BBD, I'm not going to run around in circles again with this but if you have the time or motivation you should go to dallascowboys.com and check out the archived Parcells press conferences. Parcells recently talked extensively about Ware. The gist of it was that all of us fans and the media are looking for a big pressure catalytic pass rusher while he's looking for a complete LB that can also rush the passer effectively when called upon.
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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BBD, I'm not going to run around in circles again with this but if you have the time or motivation you should go to dallascowboys.com and check out the archived Parcells press conferences. Parcells recently talked extensively about Ware. The gist of it was that all of us fans and the media are looking for a big pressure catalytic pass rusher while he's looking for a complete LB that can also rush the passer effectively when called upon.
I understand that, and I know that the responsibilities of the 2 are somewhat different, but you have to admit, DWare's pass rushing has been disappointing. He had Whitfield on him all day, and didn't do anything.

Granted, Eli did a great job evading pressure, but still, this is the same Bob Whitfield that was thoroughly embarrassed by Brown and Spicer 2 weeks in a row. He shouldve done more.

My biggest knock on his pass rushing is his lack of moves, and his motor. He just doesn't have that fire you look for in a pass rusher. But you don't need fire to succeed, but you definately need moves. Pass rushing is a chess match, you can't just try to outmuscle/speed the other guy every play. You gotta set them up. Pick your spots. Play with their mind, have them guessing. Right now Ware is a 2 trick poney. He needs to improve his moves.
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by dpl85
BBD, I'm not going to run around in circles again with this but if you have the time or motivation you should go to dallascowboys.com and check out the archived Parcells press conferences. Parcells recently talked extensively about Ware. The gist of it was that all of us fans and the media are looking for a big pressure catalytic pass rusher while he's looking for a complete LB that can also rush the passer effectively when called upon.
I understand that, and I know that the responsibilities of the 2 are somewhat different, but you have to admit, DWare's pass rushing has been disappointing. He had Whitfield on him all day, and didn't do anything.

Granted, Eli did a great job evading pressure, but still, this is the same Bob Whitfield that was thoroughly embarrassed by Brown and Spicer 2 weeks in a row. He shouldve done more.

My biggest knock on his pass rushing is his lack of moves, and his motor. He just doesn't have that fire you look for in a pass rusher. But you don't need fire to succeed, but you definately need moves. Pass rushing is a chess match, you can't just try to outmuscle/speed the other guy every play. You gotta set them up. Pick your spots. Play with their mind, have them guessing. Right now Ware is a 2 trick poney. He needs to improve his moves.
I wasn't paying that much attention to it but weren't yall giving Whitfield help at least 40 or 50% of the time? If not then I agree with you in that that was a dissapointing performance at least in terms of pass rushing. However, I think you are underestimating the effect that the loss of Greg Ellis has had on our entire D and Ware in particular. Before teams had to account for both Ware and Ellis and couldn't really give their OTs too much help for fear of giving either Ware or Ellis a one on one matchup. With Ellis gone Ware is our only good pressure player and teams can afford to double him on practically every play because Carpenter or Singleton won't make them pay from the other side. I don't want to even hear about Merriman because as far as I'm concerned he's a cheater until proven otherwise and also they play vastly different roles on their defenses. From what I can tell Merriman blitzes a hell of a lot more often than we blitz Ware. That's a philosophical difference in our defense, we're more conservative.
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by dpl85
BBD, I'm not going to run around in circles again with this but if you have the time or motivation you should go to dallascowboys.com and check out the archived Parcells press conferences. Parcells recently talked extensively about Ware. The gist of it was that all of us fans and the media are looking for a big pressure catalytic pass rusher while he's looking for a complete LB that can also rush the passer effectively when called upon.
I understand that, and I know that the responsibilities of the 2 are somewhat different, but you have to admit, DWare's pass rushing has been disappointing. He had Whitfield on him all day, and didn't do anything.

Granted, Eli did a great job evading pressure, but still, this is the same Bob Whitfield that was thoroughly embarrassed by Brown and Spicer 2 weeks in a row. He shouldve done more.

My biggest knock on his pass rushing is his lack of moves, and his motor. He just doesn't have that fire you look for in a pass rusher. But you don't need fire to succeed, but you definately need moves. Pass rushing is a chess match, you can't just try to outmuscle/speed the other guy every play. You gotta set them up. Pick your spots. Play with their mind, have them guessing. Right now Ware is a 2 trick poney. He needs to improve his moves.
I wasn't paying that much attention to it but weren't yall giving Whitfield help at least 40 or 50% of the time? If not then I agree with you in that that was a dissapointing performance at least in terms of pass rushing. However, I think you are underestimating the effect that the loss of Greg Ellis has had on our entire D and Ware in particular. Before teams had to account for both Ware and Ellis and couldn't really give their OTs too much help for fear of giving either Ware or Ellis a one on one matchup. With Ellis gone Ware is our only good pressure player and teams can afford to double him on practically every play because Carpenter or Singleton won't make them pay from the other side. I don't want to even hear about Merriman because as far as I'm concerned he's a cheater until proven otherwise and also they play vastly different roles on their defenses. From what I can tell Merriman blitzes a hell of a lot more often than we blitz Ware. That's a philosophical difference in our defense, we're more conservative.
It was more like 30% from what I noticed. Whitfield pretty much took him one by himself most of the time. This has been a critique of mine for the Giants the past 3 weeks because we tend to leave him to fend for himself. Lucky for us, he did a great job against Ware.

Im starting to think that Ware would be better suited to be a SAM rushbacker. He has the coverage skills, and he's a great run stuffer.

Right now, I haven't seen the pass rushing skills that you would like to see out of a weakside rushbacker. Its primarily because of his lack of pass rush moves really, I just don't understand why he does not mix it up more.
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by dpl85
BBD, I'm not going to run around in circles again with this but if you have the time or motivation you should go to dallascowboys.com and check out the archived Parcells press conferences. Parcells recently talked extensively about Ware. The gist of it was that all of us fans and the media are looking for a big pressure catalytic pass rusher while he's looking for a complete LB that can also rush the passer effectively when called upon.
I understand that, and I know that the responsibilities of the 2 are somewhat different, but you have to admit, DWare's pass rushing has been disappointing. He had Whitfield on him all day, and didn't do anything.

Granted, Eli did a great job evading pressure, but still, this is the same Bob Whitfield that was thoroughly embarrassed by Brown and Spicer 2 weeks in a row. He shouldve done more.

My biggest knock on his pass rushing is his lack of moves, and his motor. He just doesn't have that fire you look for in a pass rusher. But you don't need fire to succeed, but you definately need moves. Pass rushing is a chess match, you can't just try to outmuscle/speed the other guy every play. You gotta set them up. Pick your spots. Play with their mind, have them guessing. Right now Ware is a 2 trick poney. He needs to improve his moves.
I wasn't paying that much attention to it but weren't yall giving Whitfield help at least 40 or 50% of the time? If not then I agree with you in that that was a dissapointing performance at least in terms of pass rushing. However, I think you are underestimating the effect that the loss of Greg Ellis has had on our entire D and Ware in particular. Before teams had to account for both Ware and Ellis and couldn't really give their OTs too much help for fear of giving either Ware or Ellis a one on one matchup. With Ellis gone Ware is our only good pressure player and teams can afford to double him on practically every play because Carpenter or Singleton won't make them pay from the other side. I don't want to even hear about Merriman because as far as I'm concerned he's a cheater until proven otherwise and also they play vastly different roles on their defenses. From what I can tell Merriman blitzes a hell of a lot more often than we blitz Ware. That's a philosophical difference in our defense, we're more conservative.
It was more like 30% from what I noticed. Whitfield pretty much took him one by himself most of the time. This has been a critique of mine for the Giants the past 3 weeks because we tend to leave him to fend for himself. Lucky for us, he did a great job against Ware.

Im starting to think that Ware would be better suited to be a SAM rushbacker. He has the coverage skills, and he's a great run stuffer.

Right now, I haven't seen the pass rushing skills that you would like to see out of a weakside rushbacker. Its primarily because of his lack of pass rush moves really, I just don't understand why he does not mix it up more.
I wouldn't really disagree with that but you have to remember and consider that this is only Ware's second year in the L and second year in the transformation from small school DE to NFL 3-4 OLB. Parcells has said before it takes 3 years to really make that transition successfully. We can't move Ware to the strong side until we have someone to replace him on the weak side effectively and we don't have that player on our roster currently.
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
But is wasn't. You can't talk about things that weren't. They didn't happen. It's not a bone-headed play if it worked.
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Ware played well last night. While he didn't provide the pressure I would have liked (he was chipped quite often by the way) his all around game is outstanding. I don't have any complaints. I would rather he be outstanding in coverage and the run game first. He can and will develop more moves to rush the passer. I don't doubt that at all. The Merriman debate is tired and pointless. Let it go. Good post BBD.
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
But is wasn't. You can't talk about things that weren't. They didn't happen. It's not a bone-headed play if it worked.
Please. It wasn't a good/smart throw. It was a bad throw that he got lucky on. I know everyone is on the Romo wagon but it wasn't a good throw just like Eli's throw wasn't good that Glenn almost picked off.
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I don't want my evaluation to be misinterpreted as a Ware/Merriman debate, that was just one bulletin on the list.

I just got off the phone with my buddy Sal. Sal is a diehard Giants fan, and he is planning on being a football analyst after his internship. He just watched the bomb pass to Witten again with a minute left and called me up to let me know what exactly transpired.

I didn't notice it immediately, and I fault myself for that, but this play right here is indicative of what we've been having to deal with over in Giants land.

Ok, Dallas came out in an empty set, and the Giants came out in a 3 downlinemen front. All indications were his typical prevent zone he likes doing. When I first saw the play, I thought it was just that, but it wasn't.

Against a 5 WR set, Tim Lewis drew up Cover 2!!!! It might not sound absurd superficially, but anyone who's played this game before knows that Cover 2 against a 5 WR set is suicide. You have 2 safeties defending 5 WRs deep. That is beyond dumb. If you send 3 deep, one is wide open.

And in fact, if you look at the replay, you'll see that not only was Witten open, but he had TO open for a TD as well. Basically because we had 2 safeties playing deep, and everyone else underneath. Pierce played a deep middle zone and tried to recover, but he had no chance. That play was a recipe for disaster.

Sigh...yup, Tim Lewis strikes again.
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Then Demps is even a bigger idiot if that play was Cover 2. Because he cheated up and let Witten get behind him as well.
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Old 12-04-2006, 01:05 PM    (permalink
Poet3334
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Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
What bone-headed plays?
I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
But is wasn't. You can't talk about things that weren't. They didn't happen. It's not a bone-headed play if it worked.
Please. It wasn't a good/smart throw. It was a bad throw that he got lucky on. I know everyone is on the Romo wagon but it wasn't a good throw just like Eli's throw wasn't good that Glenn almost picked off.
So what? I didn't say it was a good throw did I? No. Did it harm the Cowboys in the game? No. End of story
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Old 12-04-2006, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I don't want my evaluation to be misinterpreted as a Ware/Merriman debate, that was just one bulletin on the list.

I just got off the phone with my buddy Sal. Sal is a diehard Giants fan, and he is planning on being a football analyst after his internship. He just watched the bomb pass to Witten again with a minute left and called me up to let me know what exactly transpired.

I didn't notice it immediately, and I fault myself for that, but this play right here is indicative of what we've been having to deal with over in Giants land.

Ok, Dallas came out in an empty set, and the Giants came out in a 3 downlinemen front. All indications were his typical prevent zone he likes doing. When I first saw the play, I thought it was just that, but it wasn't.

Against a 5 WR set, Tim Lewis drew up Cover 2!!!! It might not sound absurd superficially, but anyone who's played this game before knows that Cover 2 against a 5 WR set is suicide. You have 2 safeties defending 5 WRs deep. That is beyond dumb. If you send 3 deep, one is wide open.

And in fact, if you look at the replay, you'll see that not only was Witten open, but he had TO open for a TD as well. Basically because we had 2 safeties playing deep, and everyone else underneath. Pierce played a deep middle zone and tried to recover, but he had no chance. That play was a recipe for disaster.

Sigh...yup, Tim Lewis strikes again.

You're right, TO was open.
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Hey, while we're rehashing the game I think Hatcher deserves some props. When he got head-butted by McKenzie (I think), he was smart enough to put up his hands and not retaliate so that he didn't draw an offsetting foul. That was a heads up move by a rookie.
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