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Old 12-04-2008, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
I know all types of backs get injured but, the nfl power back doesnt last long at all. Like seriously, almost all of them. This doesnt mean out of the league but more so, effectiveness. These guys arent suffering the major injury but rather, so much wear that they become a shell of their former selves pretty early on into their careers.
You generalization of Barber quantifying as power back is all wrong. He's nothing like Bettis, Jacobs, Duckett, or any other big power back. He doesn't have the bowling ball style they do. He's not a one directional north south runner. He can cut and twist on a dime.

He's a compact runner with power. There's a significant difference.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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As in almost every power back.

Maybe Marion will be one of the lucky ones...like i said, he does have the benefit of having a platoon mate in the upcoming years. I even said, that I think he'll be fine if used correctly in the platoon but, there isnt a doubt in my mind that if he were to be our every down back...that he'd only have a few more really effective seasons to go. Just like all the power backs before him...a rather short life span of truly great/effective play.

I'd also like to add that I'm not even sold on him as an every down kind of guy. He'd probably put up Eddie George numbers...sporadic performances averaging at or just under 4 yards per. He's been off and on this season. I like what he's done for the most part but, there have been games where he was no where to be found on the ground. He's fully capable but, I wouldnt say he's of consistant pro bowl caliber as a starter.
You might hope that, but you only have assumptions.

Barber has been as consistent as the best backs in the league. When have you seen him tired or give up on a play? If his numbers are inconsist, it's not because of his effort or ability as you are trying to infer.

And OF COURSE he is an every down back. No situation at any point in the game where he needs to be taken out.

And OF COURSE he is able to be a full down back. It's optimal for any back to get rest if that's the point you want to make. Even Adrian Peterson. He's not as effective as he was as a rookie in a time share with Chester Taylor. His YPC are way down from that season.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Marion Barber is currently, the most physical back in the league...who has taken many of licks this year. Yes, he is elusive but he isnt the first elusive power back. A guy that runs w/ that type of intensity and physcality will normally not last long. There is a legitimate reason to be a little worrisome even Emmitt and Dorsett have been publicly fearful of his running style. But they both suggested him changing his ways or toning it down. Which is completely ludicrous for them to say.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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You might hope that, but you only have assumptions.

Barber has been as consistent as the best backs in the league. When have you seen him tired or give up on a play? If his numbers are inconsist, it's not because of his effort or ability as you are trying to infer.

And OF COURSE he is an every down back. No situation at any point in the game where he needs to be taken out.

And OF COURSE he is able to be a full down back. It's optimal for any back to get rest if that's the point you want to make. Even Adrian Peterson. He's not as effective as he was as a rookie in a time share with Chester Taylor. His YPC are way down from that season.
What I meant is that he is for sure an every down type guy but, just not as good as some make him out to be as an every down guy. What I was getting at is that i dont think he's best suited in that role. He's the type that would seem to excel more so, in a platoon and it will only help him prolong his career. This entire conversation is pretty moot because, Felix will indeed be coming back next year. So this is all what ifs and such but, w/e. A good convo, none the less.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Marion Barber is currently, the most physical back in the league...who has taken many of licks this year. Yes, he is elusive but he isnt the first elusive power back. A guy that runs w/ that type of intensity and physcality will normally not last long. There is a legitimate reason to be a little worrisome even Emmitt and Dorsett have been publicly fearful of his running style. But they both suggested him changing his ways or toning it down. Which is completely ludicrous for them to say.
Sigh....

Every single back in this league regardless of style stands at great risk of injury.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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lol...yes you've said that but, power backs face greater risk of injury or wear because, of the amount of times they're hit. Come on, i've said that a bunch of times now and it's true.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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What I meant is that he is for sure an every down type guy but, just not as good as some make him out to be as an every down guy. What I was getting at is that i dont think he's best suited in that role. He's the type that would seem to excel more so, in a platoon and it will only help him prolong his career. This entire conversation is pretty moot because, Felix will indeed be coming back next year. So this is all what ifs and such but, w/e. A good convo, none the less.
RBBC is the way to go and I'm glad that's our team's philosophy.

The real question that I'm wondering is if we need a back up change of pace speed runner. We have a back up to Barber in Choice. The fact that we don't have a back up runner to Felix is what stirred this whole conversation up in the first place because it has forced Barber into this current "unplanned for" situation.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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lol...yes you've said that but, power backs face greater risk of injury or wear because, of the amount of times they're hit. Come on, i've said that a bunch of times now and it's true.
Yes, but there are different reasons why a power back like Bettis would sustain injury versus a guy like Barber.

Bettis will drive right into the pile and not avoid a single lick. Barber does not do that.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Practice news just in...

Ware is practicing today and Barber isnt. A good sign for Ware considering they both werent supposed to start practicing until Friday.

Jenkins and Austin are rehabbing.

Info from DMN Blog.

Also some info that wasnt on there but, i heard today...

Big Ben injured his knee yesterday while slipping in mud. It's supposedly not too serious but, it is still sore. Interesting stuff.
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think the likelihood is that Roy is cut after this season?

We'll have a cap hit of $5.5M split up over 2 years. But we'll save ourselves $8.45M worth of his base salary.
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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I think Roy is done, I'd put the percentage at 85% he's gone, he's just not worth that type on contract and with Ware's deal soon, and whether or not we want to bring back Tank, Burnett, Canty etc cutting Roy would make some of that easier.


Bad season the year before, this year he never even got started, and I think everyone is going to notice how much better we have been gaurding the deep ball...I'd still like to address safety though because Henry is still injury prone and next year even more so.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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What do you guys think the likelihood is that Roy is cut after this season?

We'll have a cap hit of $5.5M split up over 2 years. But we'll save ourselves $8.45M worth of his base salary.
I too think Roy Williams is done, but are you sure he has two years left after this one? Either way, he's good as gone. I don't think he has a future in Dallas anymore, ironically it was an injury that drove him out after staying healthy his whole time here.

I don't think we're gonna spend much time trying to re-sign Chris Canty either. He has been unimpressive, and we need to re-tool that defensive line. Pouring money on anyone not named Ratliff will hurt us in the long run. We need to bring guys that can do an above average job with their responsibilities, something we haven't been able to get from anyone this year.

As far as the Barber injury, i really hope he just sits out the whole week and gives it a go on Sunday. If we don't have him at anything close to 100%, we won't win. Especially with the weather in the 30's and snowing like it's projected to be.
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Old 12-04-2008, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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You are right about Canty. I've been meaning to bring that issue up for a while now, but kept forgetting.

I think Canty is out, and Olshansky is in.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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The fact that Emanuel Cook may enter the draft and we have a need at safety makes me very excited. Bob Sanders 2.0, anyone? With such a stacked class he could be available.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Speaking of players on the outs...anyone see Tank coming back? He still could be had for cheap but, he could certainly astleast start elsewhere. He's probably gone.

As for Canty...dont hear his name much these days. Probably a flip of the coin if he'll be back but, I'd lean toward yes. He can be had for failry cheap as well, imo and I dont think we'll see a complete overhaul along the line.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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One more post...Marion's injury hasnt healed up at all according to the lastest reports. It doesnt look good for Sunday and even if he does go, who knows what he can even do. Coleman will probably get the call up because, he's all we have and he knows the plays.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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You are right about Canty. I've been meaning to bring that issue up for a while now, but kept forgetting.

I think Canty is out, and Olshansky is in.
Starting to look like a good decision we waited on him, but if we let Canty, Tank, and Spears walk then we REALLY need to address the D-line and/or figure out if we are changing to a 4-3 anytime soon before we start trying to draft future ends.


Are there going to be any more NT's available through Free Agency again?
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Old 12-05-2008, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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I think we almost have to keep either Canty or Spears. I think we have to keep one and address the position in the offseason. Spears has probably had a bit of a better season than Canty, but I, for some reason, still feel that Canty will have a better career.

I think they resign Canty to a reasonable deal. His sub-par season should help the Cowboys keep his cost down. I think a 5 year somewhere in the neighborhood of $12-15 million. What do you guys think of that?
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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I say good 'ole Bill tops any low to medium range offer we give to Canty. I think Canty is a better fit for Bill's defense than he is in Wade's. I can see him excelling there. But if the price gets high, he won't be worth it to us.

I predict that we do dish out the cash for Igor, we keep Ratliff at NT and we draft a DE. There's our new DL. We'd really have an attacking 3-4 if we did that. It'd be like the Giants version of their Ace formation where they have 4 DEs on the DL. Key in the draft is getting a penetrating DE. I'm on Arthur Jones' bandwagon right now.

Spears and Canty walk. Tank stays.
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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One more post...Marion's injury hasnt healed up at all according to the lastest reports. It doesnt look good for Sunday and even if he does go, who knows what he can even do. Coleman will probably get the call up because, he's all we have and he knows the plays.
I fully expect Barber to play. Just like Portis did against us. This game is too important.
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Old 12-05-2008, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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I say good 'ole Bill tops any low to medium range offer we give to Canty. I think Canty is a better fit for Bill's defense than he is in Wade's. I can see him excelling there. But if the price gets high, he won't be worth it to us.
You're probably right there.

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I predict that we do dish out the cash for Igor, we keep Ratliff at NT and we draft a DE. There's our new DL. We'd really have an attacking 3-4 if we did that. It'd be like the Giants version of their Ace formation where they have 4 DEs on the DL. Key in the draft is getting a penetrating DE. I'm on Arthur Jones' bandwagon right now.

Spears and Canty walk. Tank stays.
Interesting. YOu think we'll have to grab Jones in the 2nd round?
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Old 12-05-2008, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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You're probably right there.



Interesting. YOu think we'll have to grab Jones in the 2nd round?
I'd be ecstatic to land Jones in Round 2. I have have some doubts that he'll actually declare and some doubts that he'll reach us. But it's still within the realm of possibility.
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Old 12-05-2008, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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I'd be ecstatic to land Jones in Round 2. I have have some doubts that he'll actually declare and some doubts that he'll reach us. But it's still within the realm of possibility.
Reading some of the points being made I have a piece of advice -- make up you mind if you want a 3-4 or a 4-3.

I am on record as saying we have better 4-3 personnel, but if we plan on running 3-4, and being really good at it, we need some big improvements in the triangle.

I think a change back to the 4-3 would benefit most of our LB and DL -- even Roy Williams SS would benefit.
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Old 12-05-2008, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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D's right, anything in the low to mid level range we offer to Canty will only get one-upped by Bill Parcells in Miami, unless Canty takes the discount to keep playing here in Dallas. He's decent, and an average to (sometimes)above average starter, but not someone we need to be throwing money at to keep. I do hope we re-sign Tank Johnson though, i like having him come in on pass-rush downs fresh and ready to burst through. He makes one good play or two every game, so i like what i see. The fact that Dallas was one of the few teams willing to give him an opportunity after being on the outs should help us keep him for a good amount (in terms of dollars).

I'd love to bring in Igor Olshansky, but i'm not sure how much that will cost us. I don't know if we have the money to get into a bidding war for him. He won't come cheap, that's for sure. If we're looking for solid starters for cheap, we should just try to re-sign our guys.

LL mentioned it, and i thought about it yesterday while i posted. How would you all feel on a move back to the 4-3? We could keep Canty and all we would need is another every day starter at end. We play in alignments with 4 down-linemen extremely often, so i'm not sure this is such a far-fetched idea. Or since we already do a lot of four down-linemen stuff, i guess we really don't need to make the complete switch.

Also, i'm not liking the news on Barber. We need him close to 100% to be able to beat the Steelers. I don't think their offense will be that much of a threat, but if we can't score points, we're screwed.
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Old 12-05-2008, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Speaking of players on the outs...anyone see Tank coming back? He still could be had for cheap but, he could certainly astleast start elsewhere. He's probably gone.

As for Canty...dont hear his name much these days. Probably a flip of the coin if he'll be back but, I'd lean toward yes. He can be had for failry cheap as well, imo and I dont think we'll see a complete overhaul along the line.
Canty will be eaten up by one of the 3-4 teams unless we put a tender on him.

I don't anyone will forgo a 1st but 2nd for Canty -- yeah. No way you are getting a 3-4 starting DE in this draft for next year -- at least not with Canty's ability.

Say what you will but one of the reason Ware is so good setting the edge is he does not have to worry about his left side.... and that is Canty.

And in fact, unless I am mistaken, if you see where guys get off their big runs -- it is usually on Spears/Ellis/Spencer side.

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