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Old 02-18-2009, 02:35 PM    (permalink
Burns336
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Why does everyone seem to be jumping to the conclusion that JJ's comments yesterday cement the fact that TO will be back?

If you listen/read the entire quote, he left himself plenty of wiggle room. And if he was 100% sure TO would be back, why not say that.

I still don't think JJ has made his mind up on the issue.
Because Jerry is a business man and when a business man looks at his options and says "I have 123 million dollars to play with next year, 9 million of that is invested into T.O., If I cut T.O. I am getting nothing for my 9 million, If I keep T.O. I get 1,000+ yards, 10 TD's, Merchandise and ticket sales, and a full stadium for my 9 million."

Which option do you think he will choose? If anything, Jerry hasn't come out and directly said anything because he probably wants T.O. to squirm a little. I'm sure he wants to put T.O. in his place.

For Jerry to come out and give 100% support to T.O., he would essentially be giving him free reign to do whatever he wants. This way, T.O. might feel like he's wearing out his welcome. No more distractions like last year.
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Because Jerry is a business man and when a business man looks at his options and says "I have 123 million dollars to play with next year, 9 million of that is invested into T.O., If I cut T.O. I am getting nothing for my 9 million, If I keep T.O. I get 1,000+ yards, 10 TD's, Merchandise and ticket sales, and a full stadium for my 9 million."

Which option do you think he will choose? If anything, Jerry hasn't come out and directly said anything because he probably wants T.O. to squirm a little. I'm sure he wants to put T.O. in his place.

For Jerry to come out and give 100% support to T.O., he would essentially be giving him free reign to do whatever he wants. This way, T.O. might feel like he's wearing out his welcome. No more distractions like last year.

One thing you may be missing is the business concept of sunk cost, which JJ is quite aware of, and while that money may hit the cap if cut, theoretically what he saves is hard cash he can put in his pocket or use elsewhere.

And he needs to weigh the production versus the distraction. And frankly, his production wasn't worth the distraction this past season. And while it's possible TO could bounce back with a 1300 yd 15 TD season, it's also possible that given his age, he hits a wall and the decline is visible.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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One thing you may be missing is the business concept of sunk cost, which JJ is quite aware of, and while that money may hit the cap if cut, theoretically what he saves is hard cash he can put in his pocket or use elsewhere.

And he needs to weigh the production versus the distraction. And frankly, his production wasn't worth the distraction this past season. And while it's possible TO could bounce back with a 1300 yd 15 TD season, it's also possible that given his age, he hits a wall and the decline is visible.
T.O. easily could have had 1300 and 12 td's this season but he was playing with **** at QB for 3 games.

And I don't think Jerry is overly concerned with saving 9 million. Just going off of his track record it seems obvious to me that he likes to try and get a full return on his investments. He gave T.O. a lot of guaranteed money with this deal and he isn't going to just let it walk out of the door.

You might want to consider opportunity cost in your Econ 101 lesson. Jerry will lose more in merchandise, ticket sales, and media coverage than he will gain by cutting T.O.

Owens had one of the best selling Jerseys, not to mention his icatch, iblock, etc. shirts are one of DC.com's best sellers. He also puts people in the seats and keeps the cameras rolling on the Cowboys.

It just doesn't make since to cut that.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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You might want to consider opportunity cost in your Econ 101 lesson.
... unless you think that cutting him means winning more and even a Super Bowl .... then he would make lots more from cutting Owens.

When Cowboys win SB merchandising goes nuts, luxury box are easier to sell and NFL TV Rights get more expensive.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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... unless you think that cutting him means winning more and even a Super Bowl .... then he would make lots more from cutting Owens.

When Cowboys win SB merchandising goes nuts, luxury box are easier to sell and NFL TV Rights get more expensive.
If you think Owens in the reason we haven't won the super bowl, you're mistaken.

I'm sorry to say it, but our defense and our QB need to shoulder the blame for our struggles. I love Tony just as much as anyone, but I'm starting to think that he may be a choke artist. I can't say the same about T.O.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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T.O. easily could have had 1300 and 12 td's this season but he was playing with **** at QB for 3 games.
That's certainly possible. It's also possible that he has 800 yards and 6 TDs.


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And I don't think Jerry is overly concerned with saving 9 million. Just going off of his track record it seems obvious to me that he likes to try and get a full return on his investments. He gave T.O. a lot of guaranteed money with this deal and he isn't going to just let it walk out of the door.
JJ is not concerned about $9 million if he is getting a return for that money. And if memory serves, I don't think TOs contract has a lot of guaranteed money. He has a roster bonus of $3 million in March that's not "guaranteed".


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You might want to consider opportunity cost in your Econ 101 lesson. Jerry will lose more in merchandise, ticket sales, and media coverage than he will gain by cutting T.O.
I don't think that's the case. The Dallas Cowboys are going to be top of mind regardless if TO is there or not.

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Owens had one of the best selling Jerseys, not to mention his icatch, iblock, etc. shirts are one of DC.com's best sellers. He also puts people in the seats and keeps the cameras rolling on the Cowboys.

It just doesn't make since to cut that.
It doesn't make sense unless you do not believe you are getting an adequate return on your $8 million or so.

You don't seriously believe they will sell one less ticket because they cut TO do you? Granted, they will sell a few thousand fewer TO jersey's, but I think that's a small price to pay if you think he's holding you back from having the type of success that truly sells merchandise which is getting the Cowboys back in the SB hunt.



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If you think Owens in the reason we haven't won the super bowl, you're mistaken.
I don't think he's the reason. I don't think he gets you there and I don't think they're there without him next year.

However, I do firmly believe TO is a zero sum player. For everything he gives you in production, he takes away in the drama and turmoil he creates.


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I'm sorry to say it, but our defense and our QB need to shoulder the blame for our struggles. I love Tony just as much as anyone, but I'm starting to think that he may be a choke artist. I can't say the same about T.O.
I also agree with you that the defense let us down at real key times last season. D-Unit and I have had some discussions about this and I do believe we have some issues on D. Not huge issues, but issues none the less.

I'm a big believer in Tony. I think he's great. He will lead us to a SB; there's no doubt in my mind.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Julius Peppers is on record as wanting to be traded to Dallas.

Interesting news IMHO. I am sure Jones wants him but how the hell?
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Old 02-18-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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That's certainly possible. It's also possible that he has 800 yards and 6 TDs.




JJ is not concerned about $9 million if he is getting a return for that money. And if memory serves, I don't think TOs contract has a lot of guaranteed money. He has a roster bonus of $3 million in March that's not "guaranteed".




I don't think that's the case. The Dallas Cowboys are going to be top of mind regardless if TO is there or not.



It doesn't make sense unless you do not believe you are getting an adequate return on your $8 million or so.

You don't seriously believe they will sell one less ticket because they cut TO do you? Granted, they will sell a few thousand fewer TO jersey's, but I think that's a small price to pay if you think he's holding you back from having the type of success that truly sells merchandise which is getting the Cowboys back in the SB hunt.





I don't think he's the reason. I don't think he gets you there and I don't think they're there without him next year.

However, I do firmly believe TO is a zero sum player. For everything he gives you in production, he takes away in the drama and turmoil he creates.




I also agree with you that the defense let us down at real key times last season. D-Unit and I have had some discussions about this and I do believe we have some issues on D. Not huge issues, but issues none the less.

I'm a big believer in Tony. I think he's great. He will lead us to a SB; there's no doubt in my mind.
T.O. is very popular with the black community. I don't doubt for a second that Jerry loses ticket sales if he leaves or is cut. For every media member out there trying to churn up a story about how big of an asshole he is, there is a T.O. fan who thinks T.O. is being wronged.

There is a reason he has one of the highest selling jerseys. I don't buy jerseys of players I don't like or don't expect to be on the team for an extended period of time and I imagine most people feel the same way.

Jerry is running the risk of losing a ticket sales.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...he-to-cap-hit/

here's an article that was written today on the entire thing.

I just look at the part where Jerry either has 9 something mil of dead money charged against the cap, or 8 something mil of cap charge that comes along with the best WR on our team. I don't see where there is any doubt that T.O. will be coming back.

Jerry isn't the type of guy willing to waste 9 mil of possible cap money to ensure a stronger chemistry on the team. He also isn't going to do it when guys like DeMarcus Ware are coming out at the pro bowl saying that there is no chemistry issue and T.O. is a leader and that T.O. is a great teammate.
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Old 02-18-2009, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Yeah Julius Peppers said there are 4 teams that he would like to go to and Dallas was one of them. I heard Gross just got his deal done with them and Peppers will be franchised.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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T.O. is very popular with the black community. I don't doubt for a second that Jerry loses ticket sales if he leaves or is cut. For every media member out there trying to churn up a story about how big of an asshole he is, there is a T.O. fan who thinks T.O. is being wronged.

There is a reason he has one of the highest selling jerseys. I don't buy jerseys of players I don't like or don't expect to be on the team for an extended period of time and I imagine most people feel the same way.

Jerry is running the risk of losing a ticket sales.
I'm sorry, but I just disagree. That stadium will sell out with or without TO and I think it's crazy to think that it won't.

Quote:
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...he-to-cap-hit/

here's an article that was written today on the entire thing.

I just look at the part where Jerry either has 9 something mil of dead money charged against the cap, or 8 something mil of cap charge that comes along with the best WR on our team. I don't see where there is any doubt that T.O. will be coming back.

Jerry isn't the type of guy willing to waste 9 mil of possible cap money to ensure a stronger chemistry on the team. He also isn't going to do it when guys like DeMarcus Ware are coming out at the pro bowl saying that there is no chemistry issue and T.O. is a leader and that T.O. is a great teammate.

there's no question that the cap hit would be huge and would be a tough pill to swallow.

Look, I don't have a real strong feeling one way or another because as I've said, TO is a zero sum player in my mind. I don't think he will be the reason they make it to the SB if they do and probably won't be the reason they don't if they do not make it. I just think at some point you have to make the decision as to whether the headache equals the production and I think that the point at which the headache outweighs the benefit is very close.

I also think the Romo thing can't be lost in this. I think you have an opportunity to have a kid in Romo that can win multiple superbowls. What he doesn't need is TO always continuing to stir the pot. I do not believe that as long as TO is on this team, Romo will never completely "own" this team.

BTW, why do you bring up the black thing?

I have gone to at least one game per year for a number of years and, IMO, the number of african americans at the games isn't really disproportionate to the general population. Are you implying that the black community would "boycott" the Cowboys?
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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What has Romo done with T.O.?

How good will he be without him?

Go look at the stat line for Romo without T.O.

It's terrible. The team basically stalled on offense. Sure, we've got Roy Williams now to alleviate some of the drop off but I just don't think he will help as much as everyone else.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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If you think Owens in the reason we haven't won the super bowl, you're mistaken.

I'm sorry to say it, but our defense and our QB need to shoulder the blame for our struggles. I love Tony just as much as anyone, but I'm starting to think that he may be a choke artist. I can't say the same about T.O.
You can't? How many times can you think back to last year where he caught the ball 4 yards short of the 1st down and he fell down soft before he got the 1st, or times he dropped an easy pass in a situation where we needed a big catch to get the offense moving...This isn't TO from his Philly days, he made some plays but he has lost alot...Alot gets made on what's outside of him but who was outside of him in Philly?


I would not trust throwing the ball to TO in the clutch and I'm sure Romo feels the same...I can't think of one game where as a team we played great and Romo lost himself if were talking playoffs or games to get into the playoffs.


Romo needs good coaching that's all I see, he has all the ability in the world, but he needs someone to calm him down, once we get down a few scores he gets careless with the ball making too many plays, but I've seen TO come up lame on countless times we needed him to make a big play.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:39 AM    (permalink
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I'll go on record saying TO won't be cut...I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Just isn't going to happen from a business standpoint...Jerry doesn't make moves like that...it's not happening.

Here is what I think should happen. Garrett should sit down with his whole offense. Ask each and every player what he would like to do. example...

JG- TO tell me what you would like to do in our offense next year.
TO- Put me in motion presnap...stack me behind someone...let me run free off the LOS....run me across the middle....blah blah blah
JG- Thanks TO.

Then Jason Garrett uses that ivy league head of his and designs an offense around what "his" players think our their strengths....you have guys like Roy Williams saying run a slant...hell ******* throw in a slant route for him....if he is coughing it up you cut it from the playbook...but I think player moral and input in the gameplan would lead to more accountability from the players as well.

Wade Phillips is a good coach because he plays his players to their strengths....Jason Garrett needs to do the same. Tony Romo has the quickest release in history....give him quick decisions to make....5-7 step drops all game leave him open to punishment...hell if i'm a OL i love short drops....don't have to worry about hardly anything....add a roll out....add a sweep...these are plays that can establish drives....I was so sick of watching Tony Romo take 5-7 step drops look down the field...see noone open and checkdown to Witten/Barber...unacceptable to be doing that an "entire game"...which is what I think Garrett should adjust.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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I'll go on record saying TO won't be cut...I'll eat crow if I'm wrong.

Just isn't going to happen from a business standpoint...Jerry doesn't make moves like that...it's not happening.

Here is what I think should happen. Garrett should sit down with his whole offense. Ask each and every player what he would like to do. example...

JG- TO tell me what you would like to do in our offense next year.
TO- Put me in motion presnap...stack me behind someone...let me run free off the LOS....run me across the middle....blah blah blah
JG- Thanks TO.

Then Jason Garrett uses that ivy league head of his and designs an offense around what "his" players think our their strengths....you have guys like Roy Williams saying run a slant...hell ******* throw in a slant route for him....if he is coughing it up you cut it from the playbook...but I think player moral and input in the gameplan would lead to more accountability from the players as well.

Wade Phillips is a good coach because he plays his players to their strengths....Jason Garrett needs to do the same. Tony Romo has the quickest release in history....give him quick decisions to make....5-7 step drops all game leave him open to punishment...hell if i'm a OL i love short drops....don't have to worry about hardly anything....add a roll out....add a sweep...these are plays that can establish drives....I was so sick of watching Tony Romo take 5-7 step drops look down the field...see noone open and checkdown to Witten/Barber...unacceptable to be doing that an "entire game"...which is what I think Garrett should adjust.
Excellent point about MORAL! I like a coaching asking the player what his strengths AND weaknesses are. That gives the player a feeling like he is being heard, which would probably alleviate some of TO's issues with the offense. He just wants to be heard!

Very rarely last year did we take a short drop, throw the curl route, quick slant, or quick out.

The game against the Steelers, if you go back and watch the last several drives, Roy Boy is open on those short curls that would help move the chains.
I know TO was pissed because he didn't get the ball when he thought he was open, but go look at the game film, it was Roy who was even further open on routes that would help us move down field. If we work in those short drops, quick slants, outs, curls, then we will be able to throw the double move more often.

One of my favorite plays this year was TO's double move against Philly the first time around. He and Romo SOLD the quick slant, and BAM, took it deep over the safety. There are still very few guys who can hesitate on a double move and still catch TO down field, I dont care how old he is. Mr. Austin would be another great option on the short stuff working into a double move.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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Mr. Austin would be another great option on the short stuff working into a double move.
I would like to see it before I assume he can do it. I've seen him do Straight Ahead speed. Not stop/start speed.

Love the idea of giving the recievers more input on offence. But in saying that. Good Coordinators should know there recievers strength's and weaknesses. Good coordinators know what there QB is and isn't capable of. They shouldn't need to be in contact and asking the players themselves what they want to see. I know you want dialogue. And obviously you want to take suggestions on board. But at this point it almost feels like Garrett needs someone to sit him down and draw diagrams.

Not signing Chris Canty longterm last year is really going to hurt us in the longrun I think. Having him wrapped up this year would have given us much more options coming into the draft but as it is. We MAY be looking at replacing 1 or 2 starters on D this year. It's tough to look at that situation in a positive light.

Just read the Mick's Mail and there seems to be some buzz about a Siavii(i think that's how you spell it.) Anyone know anything positive about him other then 9th hand information?
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Old 02-19-2009, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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What has Romo done with T.O.?

How good will he be without him?


Go look at the stat line for Romo without T.O.

It's terrible. The team basically stalled on offense. Sure, we've got Roy Williams now to alleviate some of the drop off but I just don't think he will help as much as everyone else.

I think Tony is a top 6 QB in this league. I think he will be just fine.
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Old 02-19-2009, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I would like to see it before I assume he can do it. I've seen him do Straight Ahead speed. Not stop/start speed.

Love the idea of giving the recievers more input on offence. But in saying that. Good Coordinators should know there recievers strength's and weaknesses. Good coordinators know what there QB is and isn't capable of. They shouldn't need to be in contact and asking the players themselves what they want to see. I know you want dialogue. And obviously you want to take suggestions on board. But at this point it almost feels like Garrett needs someone to sit him down and draw diagrams.?
I thought Austin showed a lot in preseason before he got hurt. He has risen above my expectations and will only be a number 2/3 WR, but that's the best we can ask for.
JG is still a fairly new OC, he is still finding his own way. At least by starting the dialog it will give his offense some accountability, which IMO is something we desperately need.
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Old 02-20-2009, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Reports are out there that we are trying to make one last ditch effort to talk contract extension with Canty before he hits FA, I really don't want to tie up anymore money but we need to decide whose cheaper out of Canty or Olshansky and I'd take either guy.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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Spears and Olshansky... I'll take either guy. Canty and Olshansky is a no-brainer IMO. Get Canty signed NOW.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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What is the trade value of the following guys individually?

Marcus Spears
Roy Williams- safety
Bobby Carpenter

My guess would be Spears- 6, Williams- 4 and Carpenter- 5.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Firstly...Spears has no chance of being traded.

Secondly, I think you'd be hard pressed to get a 4th for Roy and Bobby may not net you any better than a 6th. Roy has been steadily regressing and the value of cover safties is higher than ever, Roy doesnt have much value these days...and Bobby cant even see the field, if you can get a 5th for him somewhere, consider that a win because, i'm not so sure someone would offer that up.

Considering the premium for 3-4 D-Lineman...Spears would actually get you the most probably but, again he isnt getting moved.
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Dallas met with Tyson Jackson...obviously we cant get him but, gives you an idea what we're looking at early.
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Dallas met with Tyson Jackson...obviously we cant get him but, gives you an idea what we're looking at early.
Maybe an indication that Canty won't be signing a new deal before FA.
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Dallas met with Tyson Jackson...obviously we cant get him but, gives you an idea what we're looking at early.
God, think if we didn't trade away our 1st for RW...
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather have Gilbert over Jackson. I'm sour on LSU players, specifically from the D-line.

Although I'm fairly certain we'll have no shot at Gilbert.
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