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Old 10-14-2009, 08:04 AM    (permalink
HEISMANHERSCHEL
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Originally Posted by herniateddisc View Post
Anyone who thinks Jerry Jones has the history or track record of AL Davis in the football world as a FOOTBALL MAN are simply ignorant. You have no idea what you are talking about. You act as if history was invented yesterday.

Like telling me Riddick Boew is a better boxer than Ali -- yeah maybe right now -- but please do not compare historical importance or accomplishments.

This is an asinine conversation only a Cowboys fan would engage in all in a sily effort to defend their Team.
Okay Rob-using your own logic here...Compare the history of both teams.

Thats right, buddy...I didn't think that is what you wanted to do!

History is in my favor.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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Wow. Never expected you to ever defend Parcells. That's like a 180 from back in the day. So you're ok with the 3-4 now? Or do you still prefer the 4-3?
I still think the switch was needless at the time, much like what KC and GB are going through right now. And neither one of those teams is coming of a year where they were #1 statistically (we were). However, I didn't realize at the time how good we had it with Tuna on some things. Wade has made me appreciate Bill.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Actually, we switched in 05. It was 03 that our defense was the #1 unit in the NFL. Not wanting to mess with a good thing, Parcells stuck with the unfamiliar formation and spent his draft picks elsewhere instead of in acquiring players suited to his preferred defensive formation and approach. The result was a bottom-out 2004 season in which we finished in the bottom 10 in nearly every significant defensive category. THEN we switched. Parcells has been quoted as saying that one of his biggest regrets of his Dallas tenure is not making that switch right away.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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I think we've seen enough to know that its definitely not a SB caliber team. Probably not even a team that will go deep in the playoffs.

But I think the division, and a possible playoff birth are still very possible.
I've learned enough by now to never put any limitations on what is "possible" and what isn't. This league has thrown me down and stomped me into the dirt too many times after making statements about what could and couldn't happen that I have stepped back from those types of statements. All I know is that, right now, Dallas is not a good team.

In 2007, a depleted Giants team who was 3-2 and had been blown out twice and barely escaped with 2 more wins was widely considered to be a playoff pretender at this point in the season, and at no point during the season did anyone--even many of their own fans--honestly believe they had a shot at making the Super Bowl until they actually picked off that Favre pass in OT and won that game. Once there, no one believed they could win it.

This league is so ****** in the head there's no telling what could happen. I know this team is capable of being a good playoff team, and maybe even a legit contender, with the personnel on this roster. I've said for 3 years now that coaching would always be the big question, and it still is. So who knows what will happen?

All I know is I'm done with any type of expectation as long as Wade is here. They sucked me in during that 11-1 start in 2007 even though I tried to hold out. Well, I'm out now no matter what. I will still root and hope. But I will not expect.

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It depends on Romo quite honestly. Even with Miles heralded performance, the concern I would have is how Romo just zones in on 1 guy and doesn't make his reads.

Ive been a big Romo supporter, but Im starting to think he's not the qb I thought he was.

He's still a good qb in my eyes though.
Romo's play has baffled me at times. I can tell you right now, the reads are not the issue. Romo's greatest strength throughout his whole career has been his reads. Both the speed with which he makes them as well as the recognition qualities as to what is a play he can make and what isn't (say what you want about his slightly above average INT rate, but his big play to bad play ratio was always one of the most favorable in the league). I don't think that's changed. I think what HAS changed is that he is being forced into a role that doesn't fit him. He's being too conservative and its hurt his overall game. He's lost pocket awareness, he's lost a lot of his explosiveness and he doesn't seem quite as confident as he used to be, and its all because they want him to be someone he isn't.

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As for Austin himself, I wouldn't put too much weight on his performance. Trust me, I saw the Giants and Eagles play the Chiefs. They have a terrible defense. You can whatever you want to them. Steve Smith caught 10 passes on them and they never adjusted to him. Their DC is atrocious. No adjustments at all.
Who knows what weight it deserves? All I know is that this franchise has had a ton of good to great WRs during its time, with some really really good QBs throwing the ball to them against all types of horrible teams, but no one has ever had that type of game in a Cowboy uniform. If that was a nice modest little game like a 6/90/1 type then, yeah, ignore it. But this was a franchise record for one of the greatest franchises in the league, and--without looking it up--was probably among the top 25 or so performances in league history. That's a pretty big deal.

But we've always known he could do that. The question becomes whether he can consistently give himself opportunities by running good routes and getting open and then take advantage of those opportunities by actually, you know, catching the damn ball. More interesting than any of this other stuff is that, for as great a day as he did have, he left a TON of quality opportunities out on the field. He flat dropped (the defender got a hand in, but by that time he should have had it secured and instead of bringing it down should have held it up to demonstrate possession) one perfectly thrown TD pass, had another one that was slightly overthrown but which he was able to tip to himself and get both hands on afterward, and then had ANOTHER 2nd quarter pass which he more than likely would have taken to the house tipped at the line of scrimmage because Kosier got owned on the play. That game could easily have been 14 catches for 330 yards and 4TDs or something thereabouts, with the opportunities he had.


But that doesn't mean anything if he can't make a consistent effort.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I think we've seen enough to know that its definitely not a SB caliber team. Probably not even a team that will go deep in the playoffs.

But I think the division, and a possible playoff birth are still very possible. It depends on Romo quite honestly. Even with Miles heralded performance, the concern I would have is how Romo just zones in on 1 guy and doesn't make his reads.

Ive been a big Romo supporter, but Im starting to think he's not the qb I thought he was.

He's still a good qb in my eyes though.

As for Austin himself, I wouldn't put too much weight on his performance. Trust me, I saw the Giants and Eagles play the Chiefs. They have a terrible defense. You can whatever you want to them. Steve Smith caught 10 passes on them and they never adjusted to him. Their DC is atrocious. No adjustments at all.
I think at this point only Bob has really annointed Austin. Even though, I've wanted Austin to be used better by the team and they finally did it... There's still a wait and see approach with him amongst the general fan base, I'm sure. We need to see more consistency. That said, he opened up the eyes of the coaches and Tony. Wade said he'll get at least 50 snaps from here on out. So opportunity has finally arrived. No longer just knocking at the door. It's time and he's gonna get a chance to prove it. So there is a stir of excitement for the unknown factor behind it all.

That said... I don't credit his success due to KC being bad. I'm a big fan of Brandon Flowers... and Austin did some damage against him. If you watched his catches, they were made in the middle of the field, fighting to get open when Tony started to scramble, and most of all, a key ingredient for me, they were all made with "his hands". He's never been an arm basket catcher. There's a lot to be excited about. The story is yet to be told though.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Looks like we signed Allen Rossum. Good pickup, a veteran return man, had a nice year last season, and a local guy who graduated from Skyline High School the greatest HS in the state of Texas :) .
Confirmed:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2...d-for-cowboys/

Big win-win for the team & Rossum, he fills a big hole. I was shocked the 9ers cut him to make room for Crabtree.

After Crayton's fumble I don't think he will be returning KOs or anything anymore. Did my eyes deceive me or were they pressing Choice into service as a punt returner Sunday in KC?
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Actually, we switched in 05. It was 03 that our defense was the #1 unit in the NFL. Not wanting to mess with a good thing, Parcells stuck with the unfamiliar formation and spent his draft picks elsewhere instead of in acquiring players suited to his preferred defensive formation and approach. The result was a bottom-out 2004 season in which we finished in the bottom 10 in nearly every significant defensive category. THEN we switched. Parcells has been quoted as saying that one of his biggest regrets of his Dallas tenure is not making that switch right away.
Not wanting this post to go unnoticed, that is precisely right. We did not switch to the 3-4 after the season when our defense was ranked #1. I also remember that that #1 ranking was deceiving. It was #1 in regards to yards allowed, but not sacks, turnover, points against, etc. The #1 defensive ranking was not a real indicator of us having a powerful defense so much as it was about keeping our defense off the field and playing Parcells' style of time of possession and grinding out the clock on offense.

When Parcells first got here, he arrived on very light feet. Not wanting the media to eat this up like a story where Bill and Jerry would be fighting over power, Bill tip toed around. It's why we draft Newman and not Kevin Williams. Not flipping the defense to a 3-4 off the bat is another prime example. DWM is right about Parcells wishing he had made the move earlier.

I think Miami is benefitting from that learned experience. Even though Miami had been running a hybrid 3-4 scheme, Parcells made sure it was full fledged when he got there. Luckily for him many of the pieces were in place. Unlike how it was when he got to Dallas. So to compare the two teams is not a fair basis.

Side note: Has anyone noticed how bad ass Sean Smith has been looking for Miami? FYI, we could've had him. But Jerry allowed his cuteness to take over and trade down for more picks. Lousy picks. I'd rather have Sean Smith right now instead of Brewster and Brandon Williams. :(
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Just wondering as the Tues. trade deadline approaches, would Bradie James be trade bait if he hadnt reupped with the big contract last yr? He sure isnt earning it this season.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Al Davis has done more for football than Jerry ever has. Come on now guys.

Im not trying to sound like a hater, but seriously, go back and look at what Al Davis has done for football. Not just as an owner, but as an innovator on the football field.

Davis has forgotten more about football (literally) than Jerry Jones ever knew.

Don't let the present fool you. Its a shame what Al's senility has done to his perception as a football guy. He was one of the best in the business for a long long time.

He was an innovator & a HC (of the original Chargers in the AFL circa 1960) a couple of generations ago, now he's a dinosaur leftover resting on his laurels from the distant past.

He's delusional enough to still speak in the archaic terms from then too, like that Vertical Game he's trying to resurrect with each new HC & big-armed QB for his offense, which is btw dead in the water, circling the drain at present. I think they're 32nd in points scored in the NFL now. Watching a Raiders game is an exercise in higher & higher pain thresholds for their fans
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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I've learned enough by now to never put any limitations on what is "possible" and what isn't. This league has thrown me down and stomped me into the dirt too many times after making statements about what could and couldn't happen that I have stepped back from those types of statements. All I know is that, right now, Dallas is not a good team.

In 2007, a depleted Giants team who was 3-2 and had been blown out twice and barely escaped with 2 more wins was widely considered to be a playoff pretender at this point in the season, and at no point during the season did anyone--even many of their own fans--honestly believe they had a shot at making the Super Bowl until they actually picked off that Favre pass in OT and won that game. Once there, no one believed they could win it.

This league is so ****** in the head there's no telling what could happen. I know this team is capable of being a good playoff team, and maybe even a legit contender, with the personnel on this roster. I've said for 3 years now that coaching would always be the big question, and it still is. So who knows what will happen?

All I know is I'm done with any type of expectation as long as Wade is here. They sucked me in during that 11-1 start in 2007 even though I tried to hold out. Well, I'm out now no matter what. I will still root and hope. But I will not expect.



Romo's play has baffled me at times. I can tell you right now, the reads are not the issue. Romo's greatest strength throughout his whole career has been his reads. Both the speed with which he makes them as well as the recognition qualities as to what is a play he can make and what isn't (say what you want about his slightly above average INT rate, but his big play to bad play ratio was always one of the most favorable in the league). I don't think that's changed. I think what HAS changed is that he is being forced into a role that doesn't fit him. He's being too conservative and its hurt his overall game. He's lost pocket awareness, he's lost a lot of his explosiveness and he doesn't seem quite as confident as he used to be, and its all because they want him to be someone he isn't.



Who knows what weight it deserves? All I know is that this franchise has had a ton of good to great WRs during its time, with some really really good QBs throwing the ball to them against all types of horrible teams, but no one has ever had that type of game in a Cowboy uniform. If that was a nice modest little game like a 6/90/1 type then, yeah, ignore it. But this was a franchise record for one of the greatest franchises in the league, and--without looking it up--was probably among the top 25 or so performances in league history. That's a pretty big deal.

But we've always known he could do that. The question becomes whether he can consistently give himself opportunities by running good routes and getting open and then take advantage of those opportunities by actually, you know, catching the damn ball. More interesting than any of this other stuff is that, for as great a day as he did have, he left a TON of quality opportunities out on the field. He flat dropped (the defender got a hand in, but by that time he should have had it secured and instead of bringing it down should have held it up to demonstrate possession) one perfectly thrown TD pass, had another one that was slightly overthrown but which he was able to tip to himself and get both hands on afterward, and then had ANOTHER 2nd quarter pass which he more than likely would have taken to the house tipped at the line of scrimmage because Kosier got owned on the play. That game could easily have been 14 catches for 330 yards and 4TDs or something thereabouts, with the opportunities he had.


But that doesn't mean anything if he can't make a consistent effort.
In the offseason, I got really pissed at what Jerry did in the draft. I blasted his decision making and predicted we'd win 7-9 games. Then I changed my stance thinking that the draft wouldn't impact us this year as much as it will down the line. So I thought this year we could still finish with a good enough record to make the playoffs. I still stand by those feelings.

There's no reason for me to feel right now that it's time to forget all hopes for a good season... ...and a "good season" is more than just making the playoffs.

The season is so young, and we've got so much going on that is fixable, that I'm not ready to throw in the towel of my expectations yet. I'll do that when we're at 8 losses.

Romo is getting criticized too much. When we need scores, he's putting us ahead. I think our offense hasn't even touched their potential either. I don't think fans realize how much of an adjustment it would be without TO. Just look at Witten? People expected him to be busting up the stat sheet. But now we're only seeing how much he misses the double coverage that TO drew away from Witten. Roy is still a new weapon for Romo as far as I'm concerned. Austin looks like he's going to bring a new dimension to the offense. The players are still feeling themselves out amongst each other.

As for the defense, every week we've seen a completely different team.

We're at 3-2. We have a nice BYE week at the right time for Roy and Felix to heal. No way do I see us finishing with only 7-8 wins. We may hover around a 50% winning percentage all season, but if we catch a hot streak, I can see 10 wins.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Just wondering as the Tues. trade deadline approaches, would Bradie James be trade bait if he hadnt reupped with the big contract last yr? He sure isnt earning it this season.
I always find it amazing how well a player can play in a contract year and then suck it up afterwards.

Does Keith Brooking have a twin brother than we can trade Bradie James for?
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I think we've seen enough to know that its definitely not a SB caliber team. Probably not even a team that will go deep in the playoffs.

But I think the division, and a possible playoff birth are still very possible. It depends on Romo quite honestly. Even with Miles heralded performance, the concern I would have is how Romo just zones in on 1 guy and doesn't make his reads.

Ive been a big Romo supporter, but Im starting to think he's not the qb I thought he was.

He's still a good qb in my eyes though.

As for Austin himself, I wouldn't put too much weight on his performance. Trust me, I saw the Giants and Eagles play the Chiefs. They have a terrible defense. You can whatever you want to them. Steve Smith caught 10 passes on them and they never adjusted to him. Their DC is atrocious. No adjustments at all.
But see, here's the deal. I've been saying this for several years now. This team will go only as far as the defense.

As much as we wring our hands over the offense, it is the top rated offense in terms of yardage. That's right #1. Now, the issues with the offense are two-fold, IMO. Our return games have been poor so we have to virtually go 80 yards everytime we get the ball. The other issue is the mistakes we've made. I'm not sure how much confidence I have that those things will get turned around, but I do know that if the defense played the whole game like they have for 3 quarters, we might just be 5-0.

This defense is our issue.

On the trade deadline issue:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...und-the-League

Interesting that Merriman can be had. Now, I know he's not been playing like he was a couple of years ago, but he would certainly be an upgrade over Spencer. How would you like to have D-Ware on one side and Merriman on the other? :)
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Don't get me wrong. This team could easily finish 12-4. ANYTHING is on the board. Right now, though, we aren't good. But the problem isn't you can't count on this team. NEVER. We never have been able to count on em, and nothing is changing, apparently. There have been stretches of football where I have thought that this team is as good as any Dallas team I've seen--seriously. Then just when you start wanting to talk trash and enjoy being on top, they come out and play like the Raiders. It's maddening. I will never stop hoping that this team is what we want it to be. But I'm done with any type of expectation on them. I'm 100% at wait-and-see. Which sucks, because if they DO turn it around, it won't be nearly as enjoyable. But I can't take the pain anymore.
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Don't get me wrong. This team could easily finish 12-4. ANYTHING is on the board. Right now, though, we aren't good. But the problem isn't you can't count on this team. NEVER. We never have been able to count on em, and nothing is changing, apparently. There have been stretches of football where I have thought that this team is as good as any Dallas team I've seen--seriously. Then just when you start wanting to talk trash and enjoy being on top, they come out and play like the Raiders. It's maddening. I will never stop hoping that this team is what we want it to be. But I'm done with any type of expectation on them. I'm 100% at wait-and-see. Which sucks, because if they DO turn it around, it won't be nearly as enjoyable. But I can't take the pain anymore.
Yeah, Dallas is not a team you wanna be trash talkin' to others about. lol.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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I really don't want to put the cart in front of the horse, but I think the win in KC was huge for this team.

Does anyone else remember a moment like the one the team had in the endzone after the game?

Talent has never been an issue here, it's mostly been chemistry and complacency.

Those types of moments can be the difference in a teams season. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a new Cowboy team (one closer to what we all hope for) after the bye.

I'm really excited to see if the momentum carries through to the next game.

I'm a believer that this teams psyche (and Roy Williams and Marcus Spears, ha) has been what's holding it back. Once you get a few quality wins and mix it with some leadership, you can get a real dangerous team.

I know it's out of character for me to make a post like this, but I have a feeling this team is FINALLY turning the corner.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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I really don't want to put the cart in front of the horse, but I think the win in KC was huge for this team.

Does anyone else remember a moment like the one the team had in the endzone after the game?

Talent has never been an issue here, it's mostly been chemistry and complacency.

Those types of moments can be the difference in a teams season. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a new Cowboy team (one closer to what we all hope for) after the bye.

I'm really excited to see if the momentum carries through to the next game.

I'm a believer that this teams psyche (and Roy Williams and Marcus Spears, ha) has been what's holding it back. Once you get a few quality wins and mix it with some leadership, you can get a real dangerous team.

I know it's out of character for me to make a post like this, but I have a feeling this team is FINALLY turning the corner.
...AND now we're DOOMED! ahahhahaha.

*knock on wood*

Brooking and Kitna have brought very good leadership to this team. I applaud those moves by Jerry.

Brooking makes me say Zach Thomas/Kevin Burnett.. WHO?

Kitna makes me sit back and grin. He does a lot that goes unnoticed.

Getting rid of Anthony Henry was the right move.

We all agree Canty was overpaid.

Olshansky has been ok, not great.

We haven't been able to pick up where we left off with with Greg Ellis. But we needed a change in leadership and he was in the way. Bradie James needs to go next.

No TO bashing after Austin's marvelous performance. ;) While I did agree with you Burns that losing TO would hurt (and it has, there's no denying our rough start), I'm glad I changed my mind before the season started that we'd be better off without him in the long run. I expected better ball sharing and guys stepping up, and after a month into the season, I think we're finally starting to see that. Much more progress is to be made before we're as potent on offense as we were with TO, but we're slowly getting there. ...and that is acceptable for me to be happy.

---------------

As for the draft. Outside of Buehler, we're not getting jack... even as depth players... That draft was absolutely horrible.

---------------

So while I applaud the FA/trade moves Jerry made. I'm not gonna ignore the fact that he made mistakes too.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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I still think we should have kept Owens and just traded him at the deadline (or cut him) if things weren't working out.

I just hope Austin gets promoted to the starting lineup. Defenses have been able to play compact and suffocate us with the lack of explosion. Even if he isn't making catches, he can stretch the field, help open up the run game, and create some space for the TE's to work the middle.

I still consider trading for Williams and our draft HUGE blunders. I will never change my mind on RW unless he can somehow manage to give me at least 14 healthy games, double digit touchdowns, and 1250+ yards receiving.

Anyway -- I still have a gut feeling that the team is "bonding" better than ever.

and yeah -- I came to most of these conclusions about chemistry and turning a corner based off of 1 overtime. So when I'm right, everyone should consider me a god of predictions.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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I still think we should have kept Owens and just traded him at the deadline (or cut him) if things weren't working out.

I just hope Austin gets promoted to the starting lineup. Defenses have been able to play compact and suffocate us with the lack of explosion. Even if he isn't making catches, he can stretch the field, help open up the run game, and create some space for the TE's to work the middle.

I still consider trading for Williams and our draft HUGE blunders. I will never change my mind on RW unless he can somehow manage to give me at least 14 healthy games, double digit touchdowns, and 1250+ yards receiving.

Anyway -- I still have a gut feeling that the team is "bonding" better than ever.

and yeah -- I came to most of these conclusions about chemistry and turning a corner based off of 1 overtime. So when I'm right, everyone should consider me a god of predictions.
Well, while I think the chemistry is better among teammates, I don't think it's better between players and coaching staff... not that it's bad, but I just don't think the coaches are respected much.
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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.
As for the draft. Outside of Buehler, we're not getting jack... even as depth players... That draft was absolutely horrible.
But we also have been unlucky so far. Hamlin, Williams and Brewster got hurt. I'm big believer in Williams, and I think he could be the 3-down ILB we have missed since Dat retired. Hamlin is still an unkwon object and so is Brewster... but I also think that Butler deserves more playing time,
If (and it's a biiiig IF) Williams, Hamlin and Butler turn on to be good starters and Butler contributes as a pass rusher I think we could revalue our draft.
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Old 10-16-2009, 03:23 AM    (permalink
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I don't like the Cowboys but I'm subscribed to this thread. Awesome posts guys, so much good talk in here. Keep it up!
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:09 AM    (permalink
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I don't like the Cowboys but I'm subscribed to this thread. Awesome posts guys, so much good talk in here. Keep it up!
Why, cause we like to fight with each other??? hahahahaha.

Thanks for the kind words.
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:12 AM    (permalink
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But we also have been unlucky so far. Hamlin, Williams and Brewster got hurt. I'm big believer in Williams, and I think he could be the 3-down ILB we have missed since Dat retired. Hamlin is still an unkwon object and so is Brewster... but I also think that Butler deserves more playing time,
If (and it's a biiiig IF) Williams, Hamlin and Butler turn on to be good starters and Butler contributes as a pass rusher I think we could revalue our draft.
Unlucky...yea well, you can't blame luck. When it comes to the draft, I value Quality over Quantity. I never want to see us come away with 13 draft picks EVER AGAIN!!!!
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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But we also have been unlucky so far. Hamlin, Williams and Brewster got hurt. I'm big believer in Williams, and I think he could be the 3-down ILB we have missed since Dat retired. Hamlin is still an unkwon object and so is Brewster... but I also think that Butler deserves more playing time,
If (and it's a biiiig IF) Williams, Hamlin and Butler turn on to be good starters and Butler contributes as a pass rusher I think we could revalue our draft.
I'm a big believer of Jerry Jones myself.
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl...ory?id=4564582

Good move by Jerry to come out and squash any rumors about it. No good coach out there is gonna fly in midseason and take the job anyways. Best of all, it means Jason Garrett won't take over... or stop rumors of him taking over in case Wade got fired.
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Yeah it is good that Jerry shut things down before they got started. It's Wade's last year on his contract, and the last thing he needs is pressure to make things worse. The focus right now should be on winning games by fixing their mistakes, not changing to a coach that wouldn't do jack but "motivate" the team.
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