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Old 10-16-2009, 12:37 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
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I really don't want to put the cart in front of the horse, but I think the win in KC was huge for this team.

Does anyone else remember a moment like the one the team had in the endzone after the game?

Talent has never been an issue here, it's mostly been chemistry and complacency.

Those types of moments can be the difference in a teams season. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a new Cowboy team (one closer to what we all hope for) after the bye.

I'm really excited to see if the momentum carries through to the next game.

I'm a believer that this teams psyche (and Roy Williams and Marcus Spears, ha) has been what's holding it back. Once you get a few quality wins and mix it with some leadership, you can get a real dangerous team.

I know it's out of character for me to make a post like this, but I have a feeling this team is FINALLY turning the corner.


Good post. This is why I enjoy most of you guys post here, we can come out and have a strong stance one way or another about the team, or season before hand but we always call it like we see it as it unfolds and don't feel the need to stick to the same script as before or however you want to call it. Basically not all gloom and doom, not to say you would be wrong if you felt that way, but I can appreciate someone's opinion alot more when they don't blindly stand by one stance or opinion just because it's what they said previously.


I was willing to give the offense, Garrett, RW, Romo, and this team a fair chance without TO around this year, I felt we would be better and do fine without him but I still have alot more concerns then before the season.


Now alot is made about RW's big play ability and what he brings to the offense, but I'm concerned about how he's targeted. How many times have I seen on 3rd down Romo drops back and never even looks at RW? I mean, I can accept the argument 'he doesn't get seperation' if it proves to be true, but I saw Romo throwing balls to Hurd or Crayton lots of times without looking Roy's direction. How about at least a deep ATTEMPT to Roy on a deep route? Let's see if he's really just not getting open.


Now as far as TO, he's a 1st ballot HOFer and his resume may put him in the conversation of top 10 WR of all-time, I never thought Roy could be him but how often do you replace a HOFer with another? Obviously we over paid, but I still think he's a high caliber WR that needs more chances.


I'm not sure about this team quite yet, I think we have the pieces to at least win a playoff game, but I'm not sure Wade can get this team disciplined enough to make it happen.


Though alot hinges on a healthy Felix Jones as I've always said, he makes us a different team, as does Austin on the outside of Roy, Romo has been more careful with the ball with the INT's and our running game is what it should be. I'm not a believer yet because we always look ill-prepared for a game and the stupid penalties kill you in December-January, but I would consider this season a success to get the playoff monkey off our back at least.
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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No TO bashing after Austin's marvelous performance. ;) While I did agree with you Burns that losing TO would hurt (and it has, there's no denying our rough start), I'm glad I changed my mind before the season started that we'd be better off without him in the long run. I expected better ball sharing and guys stepping up, and after a month into the season, I think we're finally starting to see that. Much more progress is to be made before we're as potent on offense as we were with TO, but we're slowly getting there. ...and that is acceptable for me to be happy.
See, I don't think the offense has suffered. Really, if it weren't for our mistakes, which we were having with TO, we would be at least 4-1. We're #1 in yards. I don't think the offense is the problem, outside of the mental errors.

As I've said before, this team will go only as far as the defense will take it. In our two losses (and almost the loss to KC), the offense has given the team the lead late; it's the defense that has coughed it up.
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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See, I don't think the offense has suffered. Really, if it weren't for our mistakes, which we were having with TO, we would be at least 4-1. We're #1 in yards. I don't think the offense is the problem, outside of the mental errors.

As I've said before, this team will go only as far as the defense will take it. In our two losses (and almost the loss to KC), the offense has given the team the lead late; it's the defense that has coughed it up.
As good as you think the offense has been, I think they can even be better. There 's no question in my mind that I think they've been playing out of sync. Let's not ignore the truth... Penalties prove it. Our crappy red zone offense proves it. Romo's just been very hit or miss. Up until Austin's performance, our WRs and TEs had been very underwhelming. Witten hasn't quite found his comfort spot in the offense without TO attracting double teams his way. Bennett has NOT broken out as hoped. Felix and Barber have both missed time. What I'm saying is that they are still a work in progress. I'm not gonna paint a rosey picture with all that in mind.

But I agree with you that the D has been bad too.
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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As good as you think the offense has been, I think they can even be better. There 's no question in my mind that I think they've been playing out of sync. Let's not ignore the truth... Penalties prove it. Our crappy red zone offense proves it. Romo's just been very hit or miss. Up until Austin's performance, our WRs and TEs had been very underwhelming. Witten hasn't quite found his comfort spot in the offense without TO attracting double teams his way. Bennett has NOT broken out as hoped. Felix and Barber have both missed time. What I'm saying is that they are still a work in progress. I'm not gonna paint a rosey picture with all that in mind.

But I agree with you that the D has been bad too.
im gonna ask you a hypothetical question:

Is it that this team, both on offense and defense is out of sink, or is it perhaps the talent level of certain players simply aren't measuring up to what was expected of them?

im not gonna comment, i wanna hear your thoughts on it.
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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im gonna ask you a hypothetical question:

Is it that this team, both on offense and defense is out of sink, or is it perhaps the talent level of certain players simply aren't measuring up to what was expected of them?

im not gonna comment, i wanna hear your thoughts on it.
This is easy, it is that they are not drilled properly. Let me give you 3 plays that get us to 5-0 NO DOUBT and no one is talking.

1. Spencer catches the pass goes though his hand in Denver. Knock it down. Not a talent thing. (backup, TNew knocks down the pass to Marshall)
2. Witten does not kick the ball to Phillips. (backup, Romo does not float an INT to Phillips)
3. No Personal Foul on Scandrick in KC (backup, TNewman knocks down ball in hands last drive too)

5-0 and easy.

But it is fair to say the talent is getting older at key spots and Jerrah forked over huge money cuz he is stupid ..... TNew, Flo and Crayton come to mind.
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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This is easy, it is that they are not drilled properly. Let me give you 3 plays that get us to 5-0 NO DOUBT and no one is talking.

1. Spencer catches the pass goes though his hand in Denver. Knock it down. Not a talent thing. (backup, TNew knocks down the pass to Marshall)
2. Witten does not kick the ball to Phillips. (backup, Romo does not float an INT to Phillips)
3. No Personal Foul on Scandrick in KC (backup, TNewman knocks down ball in hands last drive too)

5-0 and easy.

But it is fair to say the talent is getting older at key spots and Jerrah forked over huge money cuz he is stupid ..... TNew, Flo and Crayton come to mind.
I don't think thats fair to say. Bc for every botched play you can point out, a fan from the opposition can easily point out a botched play that their team did that could have or did cost them the game.

No team plays perfectly. Mistakes happen. The outcome is the outcome.
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't think thats fair to say. Bc for every botched play you can point out, a fan from the opposition can easily point out a botched play that their team did that could have or did cost them the game.

No team plays perfectly. Mistakes happen. The outcome is the outcome.
Name them -- the mistakes other teams made that gave us the game. Tampa made lots of mistakes -- can't point to one. KC played a clean game and not one mistake was a killer -- they made plays. Who else?

I put out 3 fluke plays in the course of 5 games which have "created this environment of questioning talent." Remember, you said TALENT. Talent, not heart or brains or coaching.

My point is this team seems to let games escape right from their fingers by MISSING ONE PLAY and then it is like they stop playing right. They lack fortitutde and belief in another Mate picking them up.

Forget Crayton's drop in 2007? All downhill from that play forward.

In my heart of hearts their is no doubt in my mind the Cowboys are more talented than the Giants but they lack the brains, at times, and heart to win when it matters.

And in football, content of your character means something and so does how diligently you and your coaches prepare.

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Old 10-16-2009, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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im gonna ask you a hypothetical question:

Is it that this team, both on offense and defense is out of sink, or is it perhaps the talent level of certain players simply aren't measuring up to what was expected of them?

im not gonna comment, i wanna hear your thoughts on it.
Personally I think the mental errors in the form of penalties are killing the Cowboys. It's not talent that is the problem of this team, it's discipline that kills them. Talent wise this team is competitive enough to make a successful playoff run and more, but they shoot themselves in the foot too much with costly mistakes.
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
im gonna ask you a hypothetical question:

Is it that this team, both on offense and defense is out of sink, or is it perhaps the talent level of certain players simply aren't measuring up to what was expected of them?

im not gonna comment, i wanna hear your thoughts on it.
My approach is different from Bobs. I really think that there are a combination of things which include both of your suggestions. However, the overall talent level is sufficient and it's not what I would blame for our 2 losses so far. What I've been seeing is bad execution, bad discipline, slow adjustments with the offseason personnel adjustments and some questionable play calling.

We have our weaknesses in personnel ability wise, don't get me wrong. I think every team has those kinds of issues. However, I'm seeing things out of sync most of all.

The talent is there for these players, but they have started the season slow:

Demarcus Ware - I think he's been trying to do too much. He worked on adding new pass rush moves this offseason, and I think the test runs haven't quite worked the way he's hoped. Wade mentioned to him that the great ones (Reggie White, Bruce Smith, etc) really just had 1 or 2 moves that they perfected. Ware kind of ignored Wade (no surprise), but it's looking like Wade was right. He's started the season slow, but I'm not foolish enough to question his ability. The talent is there.

Jason Witten - I think most by now acknowledge his talent is legit. But his slow start has been fairly unexpected. I think he and Romo are realizing how much TO really helped both of their games.

Tony Romo - See above.

Talent is also not an issue for the OL and RB units. It's discipline for the OL and health for the RBs that are making the offense look subpar. ...and if you ask me, Deon Anderson has been playing tremendously well creating running lanes. I love what I'm seeing out of him.

Ability Question marks:

Marcus Spears - JAG - Just Another Guy
Justin Hatcher - JAB - Just Another Bust
Bradie James - Overrated
Pat Watkins - Worse than a JAG
Bobby Carpenter - Better off in a different system
Anthony Spencer - I'll keep hearing he's right around the corner for the next 3 years and then realize I was right all along. He's worse than Kamerion Wimbley.

Motivational Question marks:

Ken Hamlin - Signed a big deal and then stopped playing inspired ball.

Unknowns:

Miles Austin - Honestly, I don't know that Austin can do what he did week in and week out with defenses geared to stop him.

Guys who are better than they get credit for:

Alan Ball - I like what I see from him on the field. That WASN'T a helmet 2 helmet hit last week.

Stephen Bowen - He produces.

Orlando Scandrick - He got benched in favor for Jenkins, but I think that's ok. He's a good fit for us as a nickel corner. I don't deny he's got budding talent.

Guys who haven't made the expected impact yet:

Igor Olshansky - He's out there doing stuff... I just don't know what.

Gerald Sensabaugh - Honestly, I haven't seen his jersey on the field enough yet to know what he's about.

Mike Jenkins - He's still building confidence in his game. He makes both great plays and bad plays.

The 2009 Dallas Cowboys Draft Class (outside of our kickoff specialist)

Legitimate assets:

Jay Ratliff - He keeps improving every year.

Keith Brooking - If the Patriots added him, people would be saying... there goes Belichick making great moves again.

Declining talent:

Terence Newman - He's just getting toasted all over the place.
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Name them -- the mistakes other teams made that gave us the game. Tampa made lots of mistakes -- can't point to one. KC played a clean game and not one mistake was a killer -- they made plays. Who else?

I put out 3 fluke plays in the course of 5 games which have "created this environment of questioning talent." Remember, you said TALENT. Talent, not heart or brains or coaching.

My point is this team seems to let games escape right from their fingers by MISSING ONE PLAY and then it is like they stop playing right. They lack fortitutde and belief in another Mate picking them up.

Forget Crayton's drop in 2007? All downhill from that play forward.

In my heart of hearts their is no doubt in my mind the Cowboys are more talented than the Giants but they lack the brains, at times, and heart to win when it matters.

And in football, content of your character means something and so does how diligently you and your coaches prepare.
I don't agree with any of this. No team loses because of one play. Thats ridiculous. You want me to name some plays that couldve went against the Cowboys?

-Sure. If KC tackled Austin even once, that might have changed the game.
-If Delhomme doesn't get that pick 6, the game couldve been had at the end.

See how easy it is to make excuses? Every team can do it. Thats the problem with the cowboys. The excuses.

And don't even start on that Giants/Cowboys game. Thats just another example of excuses. Its funny how everyone forgets the Corey Webster should be pick 6 that wouldve easily balanced out Crayton's drop, or how we had UDFA CBs in the game outside of Webster, and still shutdown the passing attack. There are no excuses for losing that game, Dallas just got beat.

I disagree on the definition of talent too. Because to me, heart and brains is definitely part of the equation. If football was a 40 yard dash, the Raiders would have the most talented team in the league.

Don't get me wrong, Im not trying to come off too rough, but I just don't agree at all with the notion that the Cowboys would be 5-0 if it weren't for a single play in each of their losses. To be honest, they look very average thus far in the season, and I personally don't think the talent is on the same level as a healthy Giants or Eagles team.

Im guilty of this myself, I think the talent level has been overrated in the offseason. We projected a lot of this talent to be better than it is.

The only offseason hype machine that lived up to expectations has been Felix Jones, but he's been having bad luck with injuries so far. Outside of him, a lot of this projected talent simply hasn't played well.

I still think this team can turn it around, but like DMW said, i wouldn't go into games expecting it.
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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I don't agree with any of this. No team loses because of one play. Thats ridiculous. You want me to name some plays that couldve went against the Cowboys?

-Sure. If KC tackled Austin even once, that might have changed the game.
-If Delhomme doesn't get that pick 6, the game couldve been had at the end.

See how easy it is to make excuses? Every team can do it. Thats the problem with the cowboys. The excuses.

And don't even start on that Giants/Cowboys game. Thats just another example of excuses. Its funny how everyone forgets the Corey Webster should be pick 6 that wouldve easily balanced out Crayton's drop, or how we had UDFA CBs in the game outside of Webster, and still shutdown the passing attack. There are no excuses for losing that game, Dallas just got beat.

I disagree on the definition of talent too. Because to me, heart and brains is definitely part of the equation. If football was a 40 yard dash, the Raiders would have the most talented team in the league.

Don't get me wrong, Im not trying to come off too rough, but I just don't agree at all with the notion that the Cowboys would be 5-0 if it weren't for a single play in each of their losses. To be honest, they look very average thus far in the season, and I personally don't think the talent is on the same level as a healthy Giants or Eagles team.

Im guilty of this myself, I think the talent level has been overrated in the offseason. We projected a lot of this talent to be better than it is.

The only offseason hype machine that lived up to expectations has been Felix Jones, but he's been having bad luck with injuries so far. Outside of him, a lot of this projected talent simply hasn't played well.

I still think this team can turn it around, but like DMW said, i wouldn't go into games expecting it.
Having seen this team over the last 4 years I can saying with no doubt that as soon AS ONE BIG THING GOES WRONG their play goes downhill fast.

This team plays on momentum way too much. If they get it and keep it -- they blow teams out. If on thing goes wrong, they get the "Oh My God, We are Going to Lose" look on their face.

I really have yet to see this team ever Turn the Momentum around in a game with a big play in a big game -- particularly the D.

If they have MoMo they look great. When they lose it -- watch out.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Im guilty of this myself, I think the talent level has been overrated in the offseason. We projected a lot of this talent to be better than it is.

The only offseason hype machine that lived up to expectations has been Felix Jones, but he's been having bad luck with injuries so far. Outside of him, a lot of this projected talent simply hasn't played well.

I still think this team can turn it around, but like DMW said, i wouldn't go into games expecting it.
I don't think that the evaluation of Dallas' talent is already in question. I know you were one of the few non-Cowboys posters (who has been vocal enough for anyone to know) who thought that Dallas could challenge for the Division based off their talent.

This first quarter of the season is already done, but I think Dallas was and may still be in a period where they are figuring things out. We're 3-2. That's what we are. You are what you are. Period. We've beaten the teams we were capable of beating and we barely lost to two 5-0 teams. I still think the season can still play out positively if they can start to build some stability/chemistry.

There's only one person who has been thought of as very talented in the past who's now in doubt when it comes to ability... and that is Terence Newman.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that the evaluation of Dallas' talent is already in question. I know you were one of the few non-Cowboys posters (who has been vocal enough for anyone to know) who thought that Dallas could challenge for the Division based off their talent.

This first quarter of the season is already done, but I think Dallas was and may still be in a period where they are figuring things out. We're 3-2. That's what we are. You are what you are. Period. We've beaten the teams we were capable of beating and we barely lost to two 5-0 teams. I still think the season can still play out positively if they can start to build some stability/chemistry.

There's only one person who has been thought of as very talented in the past who's now in doubt when it comes to ability... and that is Terence Newman.
Honestly, Id add Romo to that list, and that's coming from probably the biggest Romo supporter on this board who isn't a Cowboys fan.

I think you mentioned something that is going overlooked. Your defense is struggling mainly bc Terrance Newman is no longer a shutdown CB. Everything Wade wants to do defensively relies on having an anchor in the backfield, bc those blitz packages don't work as well when you have to play 2 deep safety all the time to protect your CBs.

Thats why your D has struggled. Coverage integrity changes a lot when you blitz without a #1 CB anchoring 1 side of the field.

That, and Anthony Spencer is starting to bust.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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This is easy, it is that they are not drilled properly. Let me give you 3 plays that get us to 5-0 NO DOUBT and no one is talking.

1. Spencer catches the pass goes though his hand in Denver. Knock it down. Not a talent thing. (backup, TNew knocks down the pass to Marshall)
2. Witten does not kick the ball to Phillips. (backup, Romo does not float an INT to Phillips)
3. No Personal Foul on Scandrick in KC (backup, TNewman knocks down ball in hands last drive too)

5-0 and easy.
Teams that should be 5-0 find a way to make plays. All of the things you listed are things that 5-0 teams do.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, Id add Romo to that list, and that's coming from probably the biggest Romo supporter on this board who isn't a Cowboys fan.

I think you mentioned something that is going overlooked. Your defense is struggling mainly bc Terrance Newman is no longer a shutdown CB. Everything Wade wants to do defensively relies on having an anchor in the backfield, bc those blitz packages don't work as well when you have to play 2 deep safety all the time to protect your CBs.

Thats why your D has struggled. Coverage integrity changes a lot when you blitz without a #1 CB anchoring 1 side of the field.

That, and Anthony Spencer is starting to bust.
I'm still good with Romo. I take the bad with the good. I think he's still a playmaker and is capable of putting together important drives. ...it's finishing them that has brought up the late criticism.

Do you think I'm overrating the post TO adjustment period?

Since the Giants game, he's only had 1 INT in 3 games. ..and that 1 by the great Champ Bailey who Romo challenged all game. Knock on wood, but I think the criticism he got after that game... he really took it to heart.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Teams that should be 5-0 find a way to make plays. All of the things you listed are things that 5-0 teams do.
I love when guys repeatedly fabricate false strawman to burn them down.

Mr Sniper, I was responding to BBD saying maybe we have a talent problem and not a coaching problem.

I provided those 3 plays to show that if we were a SMART and DISCIPLINED team that BBD's question is not even being asked. That is we have lots of talent but have a brains and heart deficit.

I am not saying this team should be 5-0. Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.
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Old 10-17-2009, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/ar...#leavecomments

The Paris Hilton of Pro Football. Beastin' it on Youtube.
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Old 10-17-2009, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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I was just looking at some random stats, and did you know that on the all-time list for most yards per attempt in a career, Romo is #4? The three in fron of him are HOFers. Food for thought. Romo's also #3 in all-time career passer rating, behing Steve Young and Peyton Manning.
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Old 10-17-2009, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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I was just looking at some random stats, and did you know that on the all-time list for most yards per attempt in a career, Romo is #4? The three in fron of him are HOFers. Food for thought. Romo's also #3 in all-time career passer rating, behing Steve Young and Peyton Manning.
You were just looking? Weird. haha.

What does that tell you about Romo's stats?
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Old 10-17-2009, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Fear not, Greg McElroy is coming to save the team. The in-house QB, his father is VP of Sales.

He'll come cheap too, nobody will draft him. But then again nobody drafted Romo either.
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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Nothing like all the NFC East teams crapping the bed this week. I LOVE IT!!!
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Old 10-19-2009, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Nothing like all the NFC East teams crapping the bed this week. I LOVE IT!!!
I think only New York gets a pass, but I believe the Saints are that good. There is a (loudmouth) cook where I work who is a Philly guy, and we all gave it to him pretty bad last night. It was nice, because he took the focus from all the Denver fans off me :(.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I think only New York gets a pass, but I believe the Saints are that good. There is a (loudmouth) cook where I work who is a Philly guy, and we all gave it to him pretty bad last night. It was nice, because he took the focus from all the Denver fans off me :(.
I agree, NY is the only team that gets a pass. But even so, they got it handed to them.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Why should New York get a pass? Drew Brees bent them over and ****** them sideways. Washington has been playing like garbage all year, but Philadelphia should definitely be the most embarrassed.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Earlier in the season, Bob touched on something. He said that Canty's absence might be a reason for Ware's lack of production. As the season goes on, I think he might be more right than most would like to acknowledge.

Fact is Igor Olshansky has looked pretty mediocre to me. I'm glad we got him for cheap. DE is a major need for us and I wish we would look at some trade options. The draft is top heavy, but not deep at that position.

The fact that we looked at so many DE prospects leading up to the draft and didn't take even 1 with our 13 picks bothers me deeply. The lack of attention to our trenches by our front office is sadening.

But I wonder how much Ware's price tag has dropped... I mean it's had to have dropped from before. Pretty smart of Jerry to wait on it. Even Bob must admit.
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