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Old 11-12-2009, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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I choose to give Stephen Jones any credit for post-Parcells success :D
At least Stephen is getting some OJT for the day when Jerry's liver explodes from one too many mojitos & he takes over the team.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Not gonna predict.. but I hope Hamlin and Crayton get cut.

If Jerry really is high on Doug Free, then I want Jerry to put his money where his mouth is and cut Flozell too. Otherwise, draft a damn LT in Round 1! LOL. :p

I wouldn't be shocked if he cut Roy Williams or Terence Newman. Hard to say though.
It's been interesting to hear Brian Broadus talk about Free. He said the film shows that he's a good athlete with good feet. He's certainly got the athleticism to play LT at a high level. The big issue, which we won't know until he gets some extended time, is his strength. He's just not a real powerful guy.
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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It was Kevin Williams over Terence Newman.
No, Kevin Williams was the Roy Williams draft. He wanted Dewayne Robertson over Terence Newman, but luckily he never had the chance to pull that trigger.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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No, Kevin Williams was the Roy Williams draft. He wanted Dewayne Robertson over Terence Newman, but luckily he never had the chance to pull that trigger.
No, it actually was Kevin Williams that he wanted, and Jerry wanted Newman.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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It's been interesting to hear Brian Broadus talk about Free. He said the film shows that he's a good athlete with good feet. He's certainly got the athleticism to play LT at a high level. The big issue, which we won't know until he gets some extended time, is his strength. He's just not a real powerful guy.
It's also difficult if all you have film of is the preseason. The fact that he doesn't have sufficient power after being in the NFL this long is concerning if true. Free was a considered a strong weight lifter in college. I'm not ready to call his strength a hinderance until I see it for myself on the field.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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No, it actually was Kevin Williams that he wanted, and Jerry wanted Newman.
Haha... You're both kinda right... and wrong.

Parcells wanted to trade up for Dewayne Robertson, but couldn't and he got taken 1 pick ahead of us. When we were on the clock, Parcells then wanted Kevin Williams. Jerry said no. We took Newman and Williams went #9 to Minnesota.

That was Parcells' first draft with us. He wasn't with us in 2002 when we took Roy Williams.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Haha... You're both kinda right... and wrong.

Parcells wanted to trade up for Dewayne Robertson, but couldn't and he got taken 1 pick ahead of us. When we were on the clock, Parcells then wanted Kevin Williams. Jerry said no. We took Newman and Williams went #9 to Minnesota.

That was Parcells' first draft with us. He wasn't with us in 2002 when we took Roy Williams.
And this goes to my point that Jerry was more in charge first two years than Duane.

And post Duane any player success is Jerry IMHO.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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I'm not voting for the Pro Bowl yet, but I was wondering who y'all think so far has played Pro Bowl level on the Cowboys. Here's who I think are worthy:

-Romo
-Miles(if he keeps this pace)
-Gurode
-Davis
-Ratliff
-Jenkins

Other possibles would be Flozell, Kosier, Ware, and Brooking.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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And this goes to my point that Jerry was more in charge first two years than Duane.

And post Duane any player success is Jerry IMHO.
Duane? lol

But between Jerry and Bill... I honestly felt they worked together pretty well. I think it's true that when it came to the first round picks that Jerry always wanted a stronger say in the matter, but after that Parcells was able to do what he wanted. That first draft is a prime example. Jerry controlled the first pick, but Bill definitely got his guy Al Johnson in Round 2... then continued with Witten, Bradie, BJ Tucker, Zuriel Smith, Justin Bates...

Bill had his boys fly up to interview Johnson in Wisconsin to make sure that his beer incident wasn't a big problem. He loved Al Johnson. Wouldn't make much sense to call it a Jerry move. Jerry drafted another Center, Gurode in Round 2 in just the previous year.

Overall it was a very good draft and both Jerry and Bill deserve credit.


As for the second year... that was a Parcells draft through and through. The infamous Julius Jones draft. So I disagree with you point.

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Old 11-12-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Duane? Who's that?
Duane Charles Parcells
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Thanks. Yeah I figured it out shortly after posting. I was thrown off by that. :p
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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Here is an interesting stat I ran across on FO today.

They have defenses ranked using their DVOA for passes attemped at yards.
Dallas ranks like this against
#1 WR - 10 8.2att 63.2yards
#2 WR - 18 8.1att 70.4yards
Other WR - 27 5.5att 45.4yards
TE - 25 7.0att 47.9yards
RB - 32 6.9att 46.6yards

32nd! in the league against the pass to the RB and 25th in the league against the TE. As solid as Keith Brooking has been to our team...we still have a major issue on this team. I wonder if this will hurt us down the stretch.
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Here is an interesting stat I ran across on FO today.

They have defenses ranked using their DVOA for passes attemped at yards.
Dallas ranks like this against
#1 WR - 10 8.2att 63.2yards
#2 WR - 18 8.1att 70.4yards
Other WR - 27 5.5att 45.4yards
TE - 25 7.0att 47.9yards
RB - 32 6.9att 46.6yards

32nd! in the league against the pass to the RB and 25th in the league against the TE. As solid as Keith Brooking has been to our team...we still have a major issue on this team. I wonder if this will hurt us down the stretch.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but Bobby Carpenter's name should be stickied to those stats. He can't shed a block to save his life and is too easily taken out of the play whether being baited to overpursue, taking the wrong angle, or diving at grass.

I hope our coaches are smart enough to recognize that and make adjustments. Sure would be interesting to see what Jason Williams is about. Is he just done for the season or what?
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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So Carpenter who plays only 3rd down is to blame but not the SS or other ILB who are there the rest of the time?

Considering staff has been praising Bobby and his ability to cover the TEs in this division ....

What TE has killed us this season?? Um, none.

I remember this identical discussion on Bradie and Roy Williams when I used stats pointing out how poor our coverage was versus RB and TE. But now it is different.

Shame.

And fact is the only game this year our coverage sucked was GMen and Tampa and last quarter of the KC game. I will give us a pass on the Denver fluke play.

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Old 11-13-2009, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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It's also difficult if all you have film of is the preseason. The fact that he doesn't have sufficient power after being in the NFL this long is concerning if true. Free was a considered a strong weight lifter in college. I'm not ready to call his strength a hinderance until I see it for myself on the field.
I didn't gather that Broadus felt that he couldn't be effective. He was actually very complimentary; he just made the point that he's probably never going to be a road grater.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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So Carpenter who plays only 3rd down is to blame but not the SS or other ILB who are there the rest of the time?

Considering staff has been praising Bobby and his ability to cover the TEs in this division ....

What TE has killed us this season?? Um, none.

I remember this identical discussion on Bradie and Roy Williams when I used stats pointing out how poor our coverage was versus RB and TE. But now it is different.

Shame.

And fact is the only game this year our coverage sucked was GMen and Tampa and last quarter of the KC game. I will give us a pass on the Denver fluke play.
Carp is in on more than just 3rd down, but yea... it seems the light is finally coming on as far as covering TEs go. Run stuffing? Blitzing? That's another story. He just doesn't come of or through blocks very successfully.

But anyways, lemme ask you... do you credit the coaching staff for developing Carpenter?
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Well, Carp's strength has always been using his speed and athleticism. The role he's playing right now, he can be decent. The problem is when it comes to playing physical (running game), he is on roller skates.
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Carp is in on more than just 3rd down, but yea... it seems the light is finally coming on as far as covering TEs go. Run stuffing? Blitzing? That's another story. He just doesn't come of or through blocks very successfully.

But anyways, lemme ask you... do you credit the coaching staff for developing Carpenter?
I credit the previous coaching staff for mistaking a 6'2 240 LB for an OLB in a 2 Gap 3-4 and I credit this staff for destroying Carpenter's confidence and career.

I hated the pick and will always hate drafting a 3-4 OLB who is not 6'4+.

But fact remains, he played pretty well last half his rookie season and was coming along. Again, I point to the Seattle play off game where he was the best Cowboy defender that day. Just one day but good enough to say wow ..... at least respectable.

Three months later they drafted Mohawk Knucklehead Spencer who was not even the best DE/OLB prospect in the Big Ten. The best and most effective was Woodley. (**Similar to the Breaston v Ginn debate and fact was UoM guys were being dissed left right and center**)

The fact he got later moved inside was a mistake b/c as pointed out he is not stout. He is a 4-3 OLB, plain and simple, and always will be.

So he is playing better now. Great. He still sucks for 1st rounder.

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Old 11-13-2009, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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I credit the coaching staff for destroying Carpenter.

I hated the pick and will always hate drafting a 3-4 OLB who is not 6'4+.

But fact remains, he played pretty well last half his rookie season and was coming along. Again, I point to the Seattle play off game where he was the best Cowboy defender that day. Just one day but good enough to say wow .....

Two months later they drafted Mohawk Knucklehead Spencer who was not even the best DE/OLB prospect in the Big Ten. The best and most effective was Woodley. (**Similar to the Breaston v Ginn debate and fact was UoM guys were being dissed left right and center**)

The fact he got later moved inside was a mistake b/c as pointed out he is not stout. He is a 4-3 OLB, plain and simple, and always will be.

So he is playing better now. Great. He still sucks for 1st rounder.
Funny, when we drafted him you said "Spencer: B -- Best rusher in the draft"
No mention of Woodley then. Love the hindsight though.:p
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Funny, when we drafted him you said "Spencer: B -- Best rusher in the draft"
No mention of Woodley then. Love the hindsight though.:p
I loved Woodley but never wanted an OLB at all that draft -- at least not early.

My Spencer opinion .... have to check but one thing is the move to secure him (dumb) and whether or not he could play. Everyone liked his play but Woodley was hands down best pass rusher. Spencer however was considered a bit bigger and more stout at the POA -- Woodley was considered too short for DE and OLB.

In fact, I even stated I thought Woodley had the skills to an ILB even if OB was best for his career and for sack impact.

BTW, I ranted for Sidney Rice BTW after trading out #22 and having those early picks in the second.

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Old 11-13-2009, 03:58 PM    (permalink
pocketaces
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I loved Woodley but never wanted an OLB at all that draft -- at least not early.

My Spencer opinion .... have to check but one thing is the move to secure him (dumb) and whether or not he could play. Everyone liked his play but Woodley was hands down best pass rusher. Spencer however was considered a bit bigger and more stout at the POA -- Woodley was considered too short for DE and OLB.

In fact, I even stated I thought Woodley had the skills to an ILB even if OB was best for his career and for sack impact.

BTW, I ranted for Sidney Rice BTW after trading out #22 and having those early picks in the second.
Yup, I remember you wanting Rice and you were right on. I drafted him on my FFL team and hes a stud. Props!!!
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:01 PM    (permalink
herniateddisc
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This was my gut shot .......

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Oh well, Jerry give and Jerry take.

Bad trade. Reached into 1 when could have had him at 36.

Funny b/c NFL Network guys are trashing the trade as well as Cowboys safety play.

This is why I hate Jerry. He falls in love with players and loses his brain.... Roy Williams contract as an example. Anthony Spencer at 26 giving Philly an extra 3rd even worse.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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It's been interesting to hear Brian Broadus talk about Free. He said the film shows that he's a good athlete with good feet. He's certainly got the athleticism to play LT at a high level. The big issue, which we won't know until he gets some extended time, is his strength. He's just not a real powerful guy.
The thing is that was the scouting report coming out of college. If strength is still an issue after this long...I think it makes it pretty clear that his frame or work ethic won't allow for him to gain the needed muscle to allow him to get rid of that knock.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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If you look at the past viking drafts they drafted almost all of the players that I have been high on. It's almost sickening.

I wanted to trade up for Peterson. Rice had the fastest 10 yard split of all the WR in that class. I was extremely high on McCauley even going as far as to draft him in the first round. Robison was a workout stud...But I always called him Robinson and ward always corrected me. Allison was a stud at the senior bowl. Scary to think that they drafted almost exactly like I would have.

1 7 Adrian Peterson RB Oklahoma
2 44 Sidney Rice WR South Carolina
3 72 Marcus McCauley CB Fresno State
4 102 Brian Robison DE Texas
5 146 Aundrae Allison WR East Carolina
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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The thing is that was the scouting report coming out of college. If strength is still an issue after this long...I think it makes it pretty clear that his frame or work ethic won't allow for him to gain the needed muscle to allow him to get rid of that knock.
You need to read my second post. He was not implying that he cant' play. In fact, he was pretty complimentary. His point was that he's never going to be a road grater, but he should be able to play LT in this league at a fairly high level.
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