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Old 01-11-2010, 07:47 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
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Yea, firing Wade at this point doesn't make much sense to me. Look at the dude's body of work in 3 years.


We won the division 2 out of 3 years. We had a winning record all 3 years. Defense has gotten better and better, and since he took over control it's taken the next leap to elite status.


I don't know what people want Wade to do geez, he's not Vince Lombardi, but for all the talk of firing him I find it hard to believe someone would do much better in 3 years then he has. He's proven his worth this year especially down the stretch, he deserves most of the credit for where were at right now.


I was all for talking about changing head coaches early December, because had we folded he needed to go, but now any talk of him going is just being unappreciative. Cowboys fans sometimes want the world from everyone and our history probably made it that way, but Wade has caught alot of hell here when he's traditionally done a very good job and he deserves an extension. Saying that he deserves to be fired after winning the SB is about as ridiculous as I've heard honestly.



Also Witten won't be traded, him and Romo will be here as long as they want to so no need to go into those scenarios. Witten is a HOFer and he'll be with us at the very least as long as Gonzo was with the Chiefs, or at least until Romo retires, but I see no signs of him slowing down at all.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Blah JG has pro's and con's like many. D probably said it best...he will be a gem down the road...but right now he still has his problems. You can't say he hasn't gotten better tho. Regaurdless...JG isn't going to be let go...it will be his decision to move on or not. I really don't care...ya I love the way Tony has developed this year under him...but I have a hunch Kitna had a big part in it...since he is really the only piece that changed around tony. So if JG leaves...w/e bring in Dan Reeves and we'd still have a top 5 offense.
Yeah, who ever says Garrett has always been this good is an ignorant fan. There's absolutely no doubt that we have dealt with the struggles of his maturation as an NFL OC. I sure am happy with the progress, and he's quieted the shouts for his firing for the time being, but I think he needs to continue to prove himself. Obviously, we hired him while he was still wet behind the ears. Case in point... Look how long it has taken him to simply figure out how to use Felix. He still has yet to figure out how to use Bennett. As of right now, that 2nd rounder we used on Bennett has not yielded the value of it's cost. Remember... Jerry wanted to move up for a WR in that 2nd round and his constituents advised him to wait and they ended up with Bennett. Back to Garrett. It's nice to see the progress... I hope it continues.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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Man I love reading your posts but firing Wade IF we win a SB and trading Witten because we have a guy with talent behind him? I dont like either. Wade is, what, 35-15 or so with 2 NFC EAST Titles? Add a SB along with what he's done with this D would be crazy IMO. As far as Witten, he brings way more to the team than just stats. He is a leader that plays through injuries, is Romo's best friend and hes still a stud. No way would I trade him.
Yeah, both seem to be pretty radical notions with how everything is flowing right now. But if you could only take ONE lesson from history, its that once an issue has become apparent and beyond argument, its too late to do anything about it. Its my belief that by the time Wade has proved himself to be the wrong man for the job, stone-cold proved it, he will have wasted the primes of Witten, Ware, Romo, Newman and Austin and pissed away what could have been half a decade of dominance with his incompetence. Wade is a "pretty good" coach who is capable of doing a respectable job and fielding a respectable team. He's not going to be centerpiece for a perennial contender. And everyone knows it, but things like the record you cited (33-15, but really only 22-14 since the 11-1 start) and other partial measures of success provide just enough evidence to HOPE. As Mike Lombardi is so fond of saying "don't mistake hope for a plan."


As for trading Witten...trust me, no one would be more devastated than me. Aside from Ware, he is my favorite Cowboy, there isn't a better model for what an NFL player should be than Jason Witten. He's easy to love, and he brings so much to the team you would never want to see him go. But let's be real; you only do the trade under two conditions: 1) if you are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that Bennett is a future All Pro in his own right (I am, obviously) and 2) if you can stealthily find a home run of a deal in terms of value.

Who knows what the Cowboys feel on the first count, though the fact that they had him rated as a 1st round talent on draft day and then later kept him when offered a 2nd rounder in return from Cinncy suggests that they do in fact believe that he is going to be special. The 2nd is much trickier, and you don't want to burn your bridge with the player by shopping him around, so it would be a very delicate task, indeed.

Overall, its a dream scenario. Teams simply don't have the cajones to trade players like him during their primes. It does not happen. But if you look at instances where team's have had the balls to do so, its payed off big time. San Fran could have ridden Montana for 2 or 3 more years, likely played very well and won several playoff games, and ultimately cost themselves a chance at the 94 SB because Montana would have retired and they would have lost Steve Young waiting for him to play himself out. They had the balls to trade the greatest QB of all time while he was still very capable of playing at a high level.

New Englad labored under a decade of stink ridden crap waiting for a franchise QB. Along came Drew Bledsoe and all of NE fell in love. He took them to a SB and played the role of hero in another AFCC. But Belicheck could see that Brady was a better player, and that Drew would hold the team back...along with the fact that they could get TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS out of the deal. They pulled the trigger, the rest is history.

Right now, San Diego is suffering from NOT having the balls. Instead of sporting a Thunder and Lightning rotation of Michael Turner and Darren Sproles they are having to overcome their pathetic running game week in and week out while LT is jogging around the field at half speed and Turner is tearing up defenses for Atlanta. Not only could they have Turner, but they could have gotten an extremely nice piece or two out of LT if they had traded him during the summer of 07 when his value was still very high.

Another example? Had SD management had the nads to trade Brees after 2004, when his value was sky high and they had just spent a top 5 pick on a signal caller and made him ride the bench for a full season, they could have helped themselves a ton. Instead they waited a year, Brees got hurt and they had to let him walk because he was damaged goods. In this case THEY EVEN KNEW THEIR BACKUP WAS THE BETTER PLAYER (or thought they knew, at least).

More?

Sure, the Falcons are happy with Matt Ryan--and any Atlanta fan alive would tell you they wouldn't go back and change it if they could--but would they be measurably worse off if they could have Sedrick Ellis or Glen Dorsey plugging up the middle or Clady protecting the blindside of Matt Schaub (who was miles better than Ryan this year, no matter how you slice it) while STILL not accounting for the king's ransom they could have gotten from Vick before he self-destructed?

How bout the Jets with Curtis Martin and Lamont Jordan?

History is littered with examples of teams who were in a position to capitalize on a wealth of talent at a particular position but who aced themselves out of it because they were paralyzed by fear of making a mistake.


If, IF, Bennett ends up being an All Pro caliber player than Dallas is crazy to not find a way to get their value. If that means makeover the team to feature Martellus just as prominently as Witten, so be it. More than likely, you just won't get your value out of Bennett. That means if you ARE going to get your value, you have to get it out of Witten.

Like I said, it would take balls of steel, but meekness never won anyone anything.

I fully expect Dallas to do nothing, see Bennett leave in FA and dominant the 10s for another team.
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 01-11-2010, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, both seem to be pretty radical notions with how everything is flowing right now. But if you could only take ONE lesson from history, its that once an issue has become apparent and beyond argument, its too late to do anything about it. Its my belief that by the time Wade has proved himself to be the wrong man for the job, stone-cold proved it, he will have wasted the primes of Witten, Ware, Romo, Newman and Austin and pissed away what could have been half a decade of dominance with his incompetence. Wade is a "pretty good" coach who is capable of doing a respectable job and fielding a respectable team. He's not going to be centerpiece for a perennial contender. And everyone knows it, but things like the record you cited (33-15, but really only 22-14 since the 11-1 start) and other partial measures of success provide just enough evidence to HOPE. As Mike Lombardi is so fond of saying "don't mistake hope for a plan.


Your losing me. How would he be wasting the primes of all those players if he won the SB? What makes sense about that logic? What has he shown to be incompetent about? Again this argument is as if you said, he won the SB.


What more would you like him to do? Go 15-1? Have the defense as a top 3 unit vs the run and pass? Win a SB every other season?


I'll be the first to admit I'm not even a huge Wade fan but come on, if he won the SB you find me a coach who would have a better track record in a 3 year span and you'll probably have a HOF coach.


This is not even taking into consideration how tough the NFC East is.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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who would you replace Wade with?
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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I was laughing at the Cowboys to start the season and purposely avoided drafting any player from the team for my fantasy football team. When I'm wrong, I'm always the first to admit it because Dallas looks great. I just came in here to wish the Dallas fans good luck this weekend. I'm pretty surprised to find the trade Witten and fire Wade discussions. I swear, NFL fans are the toughest customers to satisfy, but I love it. Good luck guys.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Your losing me. How would he be wasting the primes of all those players if he won the SB? What makes sense about that logic? What has he shown to be incompetent about? Again this argument is as if you said, he won the SB.


What more would you like him to do? Go 15-1? Have the defense as a top 3 unit vs the run and pass? Win a SB every other season?


I'll be the first to admit I'm not even a huge Wade fan but come on, if he won the SB you find me a coach who would have a better track record in a 3 year span and you'll probably have a HOF coach.


This is not even taking into consideration how tough the NFC East is.
C'mon, man, are you really making this argument?

If Dallas wins the Super Bowl, which I cannot even fathom but let's just roll with it, then it will not be BECAUSE of Wade. It will be IN SPITE of Wade. He is a coach who has consistently put a team on the field that plays with a lack of heart, a lack of intensity, a lack of discipline and a lack of intelligence. They will often have one or two of the four, but have never had all 4 at the same time in his entire tenure. Even now, with this team playing as well as its played this entire decade, you have seen blown coverages on a regular basis. For as much as Thumper and Superman (wtfever his handle was) were laughed at, they had a point. In that last regular season game we had regular breakdowns in coverage over the middle. Its a CHRONIC issue with this team, and nothing has ever been done about it. The entire middle of our defense is like a soft Jello pudding pop in coverage. We constantly shoot ourselves in the foot with procedure penalties. We get beaten IN AREAS OF STRENGTH. Going into a game you often find yourself thinking that there is no way X will happen because we are so good, and then there you see X happening all through the game.

Its like a crazy person is running our team. We have nothing bankable that we can ride when things get tough. Mostly, its just painfully obvious that something is missing. Call it "toughness", "heart", "discipline" whatever you want to, SOMETHING isn't there that needs to be, and its a regular thing.

So lets say we win it all.

Now Wade deserves carte blanche? Now all the ineptitude, incompetence and lack of general sharpness in execution and preparation is suddenly OK? **** no. Not by me its not. And then, after a particularly egregious mistake by one of our coddled players, the camera cuts to Wade and there he is like a psych patient in the cafeteria wondering where his jelly filled donut went with a look of utmost confusion. I can't take it.

If we win it, it will be the result of things coming together at the best possible time and our team taking advantage. Much like the 07 Giants, who weren't even a top 10 team that year, let alone the best, or the 05 Steelers or 01 Pats. I don't want to spend the next three years after this wading through crap to pay for one SB win. I want to build a team that, going into every season, is a team that everyone says "if we want to win the SB, we're going to have to go through them." Winning a SB in a year like that is when the SB really means something. These teams this decade, the Giants, the Steelers, the Cards (NFC wise) and such, they can't look back and say "everyone was gunning for us and we rebuffed every challenger." No, they sneaked in the back door and their story is one of the underdog getting a few breaks and persevering to eek it out. I don't want that. It's not satisfying. Because you have the moment and its gone. You can't say you were the best team that year, because its not true. The Giants were a pincushion for much of 2007. They were beaten up and beaten down, at times by teams who weren't even good themselves. So they got hot in the playoffs, big whup.

I want to be able to look back on a season like I look back on 1993. Every team was gunning for us, the whole effing league hated us and yet they couldn't do a damn. thing. about. it. They were defenseless against our superiority. That's the type of year I want. I want the regular season crown and the playoff crown. Only by doing that can you truly say you were the greatest NFL team in the world at that point in time. The rest is just a function of Right Place, Right Time syndrome.

That will not happen under Wade. There is no question in my mind. This team has good enough players that, with the proper leadership and direction, they could be there as soon as next year. We have a special opportunity right in front of us, but Wade has to go for us to get there.

The alternative? "Pretty good"


I guess you have to ask yourself if that's good enough.
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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I was laughing at the Cowboys to start the season and purposely avoided drafting any player from the team for my fantasy football team. When I'm wrong, I'm always the first to admit it because Dallas looks great. I just came in here to wish the Dallas fans good luck this weekend. I'm pretty surprised to find the trade Witten and fire Wade discussions. I swear, NFL fans are the toughest customers to satisfy, but I love it. Good luck guys.

Thanks.


And just an FYI, I waited 2 1/2 years before making the call on Wade Phillips, even though I hated the hire the moment it came down. I was patient and optimistic. I took a lot of convincing. But once I'm there, a little perfume sprinkled on the pig isn't going to take the stink out of my nostrils.

Thanks again for the well wishes.
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 01-11-2010, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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who would you replace Wade with?
My top 3 would have been

1. Gruden
2. Cowher
3. Shanahan


Though I certainly understand you're argument. Anyone can ask for change, but having an actual plan to make things improve is another thing. Best case would be to get a young guy who is already proven somewhere else. If we could get Harbaugh away from Baltimore, Rex Ryan away from NY or Tomlin away from Pittsburgh I would love it, too.
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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It will be IN SPITE of Wade. He is a coach who has consistently put a team on the field that plays with a lack of heart, a lack of intensity, a lack of discipline and a lack of intelligence.

When is the last time you have EVER heard of a team winning a SB with these qualities, in the history of the NFL? Also if it would be in 'spite' of Wade, why didn't it happen in 'spite' of him last year? So the fallout of last year was all his fault, yet a SB run would be none of his fault?


The logic around here sometimes never ceases to amaze me. *shrugs*
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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Thanks.


And just an FYI, I waited 2 1/2 years before making the call on Wade Phillips, even though I hated the hire the moment it came down. I was patient and optimistic. I took a lot of convincing. But once I'm there, a little perfume sprinkled on the pig isn't going to take the stink out of my nostrils.

Thanks again for the well wishes.
No problem. I will certainly be scoping out your squad for my fantasy football next year. A couple of years ago, I sniffed out the Gmen going all the way. Last year, I really thought Philly was the team that could go the distance, but I definitely had them beating the GMen in the playoffs, mainly because most folks were thinking it was the Gmen from the year before. This year, Dallas is my "underdog" team, if you can call them an underdog (they are technically underdogs vs. the Vikings and will be against NO, but it won't shock the world if they win both).

Every team changes after the year is over, so my best advise is just to run with your team until the season's over. You guys look good right now and in the NFL playoffs, that's all that matters.

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Old 01-12-2010, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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When is the last time you have EVER heard of a team winning a SB with these qualities, in the history of the NFL? Also if it would be in 'spite' of Wade, why didn't it happen in 'spite' of him last year? So the fallout of last year was all his fault, yet a SB run would be none of his fault?


The logic around here sometimes never ceases to amaze me. *shrugs*
There are a lot of different forces at work within an organization. Wade is a team weakness in general. He has specific strengths as a coach that help us, but his overall impact is a negative, without a doubt. When you fail, its usually because of your weaknesses. Just because you succeed later does not mean that now your weaknesses are strengths. We could absolutely fail because of Wade and his limitations and then succeed in spite of them. That is plenty logical. There are any number of ways I could enumerate as to why it didn't happen last year but could this year, and that's without even including "random chance" as one of them, which is perfectly legitimate in its own right.

As for whether its happened before, are you a fan of this team? You happen to root for the franchise that gets to boast the worst championship winning head coach of All Time. We won the 95 SB in spite of every effort that Barry Switzer made to give it away. That team would have been better off with a cardboard cutout of Big Bird on the sidelines than having Barry prowling the sideline. So, yes, its happened before, RIGHT ON OUR HOME TURF. Ditka, Seifert, and Bill Callahan are all examples of coaches who made and/or won the Super Bowl without making any positive contribution, or were bad to the point of being a liability, to their teams, but were blessed with such great circumstances that they were able to ride it out before the cracks started to show.


I honestly can't believe that anyone would defend Wade after his first truly impressive stretch in 3 years on the job. Have we fallen so far? The guy is obviously a loser and a poser. Why the hell would you support a guy that has messed with you so badly over the last 3 years? Have you forgotten the Brad Johnson debacle? The TO experience (Jerry gets a lot of that blame)? The last minute of the 1st half in DAL/NY 07? Jacques Reeves in general? The decision to bench all of our players in Washington which ultimately cost us our edge going into the playoffs? The sense of entitlement and arrogance of last year's team? The months and months of inadequate play from Roy Williams without any consequence? The 15+ games it took him to figure out (even then aided by an injury to MBIII) that our most explosive offensive player should maybe get more touches and PT? The fact that it took an injury to Roy Williams for Miles Austin to even get on the field? The fact that Nick Folk had to kill his team for 6 straight weeks (costing us at least one game and what could have easily been two more) before getting cut, when all it should have taken was two games backed up by what was happening in practice? The inability to regularly convert on opportunities in the red zone?

Have you forgotten all this? Because I haven't. Wade should be fired.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:25 AM    (permalink
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I'm done with this conversation, this is one of the silliest I've ever engaged in since I've been here so you can go back and forth with someone else about it.


Blaming him for Jacque Reeves? LOL. Ok man, I usually love reading your post but this is getting out of hand. Dude was drafted in 2004, Wade had to be subjected to his play just like we all did, we had no choice because there were no better options, but hey, let's blame the new head coach for players drafted before he was here, that makes alot of sense.


You can spend an hour responding if you want, listening to you tell me how Wade should be fired sounds like I'm arguing with Bob.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:45 AM    (permalink
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Since I brought up Scandrick briefly wanted to post this tidbit via BTB:


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Let's not forget the progress nickelback, Orlando Scandrick, has made. In Coach Phillips' press conference today, he said that Scandrick has "settled in" to one of the toughest positions on defense. He praised him for being able to take on man-to-man assignments from a position that often sees shorter throws his way. Phillips said Scandrick has impressed with his work ethic and always keeps a high degree of confidence, which is a must for a cornerback.

I noticed he's increased his play as of recently, maybe it's due to the pass-rush, but nice to see Wade singled him out also. He has gotten better one way or another though, and I think he'll do a great job on Bernard Berrian honestly even if he has to play outside more.


Newman will, and should be on Harvin in the slot, and Jenkins bump and run vs Sidney Rice, I like that matchup.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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The Wade hate is unwarranted. Losing Wade would be more devastating to the defense, than losing Garrett would be to our offense. Wade has more than pulled his weight around with his defensive play calling. I dont know what else you want him to do, seriously. The team is playing with heart, they love playing for him, his defense is damn near brilliant. What else? ugh.

And as for Folk...the guy was one of the best kickers since he came came in the league...and his cutting would be Jerry's call more so than anyone elses. And Folk should have continued to get the benefit of the doubt because, he was one of the league's best. In the end...this ended up costing us nothing. I dont have a problem with the way it was handled because, I personally gave our pro bowl kicker the benefit of the doubt for a while.

As for offense...Miles and such. Garrett has power...a lot of power. He's the assistant head coach with a lot of pull and the overseer of the offense. I'd argue that Garrett deserves more blame when talking about Miles lack of playing time earlier in the year and Felix being no where to be found in most weeks.

Wade gets way too much hate.

And as for trading Witten. A hilarious notion...it will never happen. The guy is a Hall of Famer, not to mention, Romo's favorite target and best friend. Yeah, that would be a great move. Also, what has Bennett done? He's being out performed by John Phillips for weeks now.

What is more hilarious is that you're blaming a lot of the offensive ineptitude on him. Finger is pointed at the wrong person. Wade is pulling double duty as a HC and defensive coordinator. You're failing to see how much play Garrett really has over the offense. Blaming our offensive red zone deficiencies on Wade, makes absolutely no sense, what so ever. Garrett is primarily drawing up game plans, Garrett is making those calls.

And what's wrong with benching players in a meaningless Washington game? We had a first round bye and home field throughout. ugh. Find me a coach who doesnt do that.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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There's no point in arguing with somebody who has already made up their mind. The grass is always greener for some people. Just the utter notion that if Wade won a SB he should still be fired is hilarious to me. What coach, not named Belicheck or Dungy has had that much of an impact on a franchise since Free Agency, and even with that said the two named have HOF QB's at the helm. I'll even throw in Andy Reid in there, that team has been exactly what you've described, perennial contenders, the "team to beat" in the NFC east for nearly a decade, and yet and still....have WON NOTHING. So yes there's quite of bit of "right place, right time" attributed to winning a SB, as well as luck, skill and coaching, all of that combines for the perfect storm for most teams to even GET to the SB. I guarantee most Philly fans would trade 10 years of being the "team to beat" for the Giants "hot at the right time" SB win.

I don't think you realize how young this team is(and was at Wade's start). Romo is still relatively young in terms of starting in the NFL. The defense was young(and still is) young, and we're just now seeing what they're capable of with the right pieces in place. There is so much potential on both sides of the ball, and I think it'd be a disservice to both if we go changing systems at this point. Continuity is one of the single most important factors for successful teams, from coach to QB to systems, there hasn't been a lot of that in Big D for nearly a decade. Now we're seeing the result of that in 3 winning seasons, and 2 division titles, and two second round playoff appearances(even w/ the loss in '07, they were there.) And that's all done in SPITE of wade? and not because?


Give me a break!
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Bobby Carpenter is Romo's best friend. Not Witten.

Trading Witten is not crazy. Personally, I think Bennett needs the responsibility placed on him moreso than expecting him to take it. You can get a first for Witten and hopefully fill LT or ILB with that (places we are old).
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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No. It would be a terribly stupid and unnecessary gamble. Witten is and has always been Romo's favorite target. His safety valve. There is no guarantee that he will ever have the same rapport with Bennett.

As for best friends...I dont know or care who he likes more but, he and Witten are very close. They have an excellent relationship on and off of the field. They spend time with each other off the field, very frequently. But anyway, Romo doesnt have a better on field relationship with any player more so than Witten. He always knows where he is, and they gel beautifully. To trade him would be moronic....and it's not going to happen. And again, Bennett hasnt even looked as good as Phillips, let alone, Witten. Trading Witten, in hope of Bennett reaching his full potential, when handed the starting job, is just plain old stupid.

As for LT and ILB. It's not like we dont have picks this year and Bradie and Brooking arent going anywhere yet. And we have already drafted two very athletic ILBs a year ago, who can certainly pan out. And you can even throw in Free's name at T, who I'm not sold on as a LT but, his play would certainly give Dallas hope enough, not to do something as drastic as trading Witten.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Whether we win or lose, I think Wade and the staff have earned another year. I disagree with DWM about him wasting away talent. I think we've seen significant progress in many of our young players while at the same time maintaining great play out of our established guys. Ware has taken a massive step forward under Wade's wing. Wade has him blitzing from every angle possible, even straight up the middle. It's been a thing of beauty. His use and development of Ratliff has been a marvel. Even Spencer... he was Wade's pick. Probably his only pick. lol. But at least he's become what Wade imagined when he thought he was getting the next Shaun Phillips (another Purdue product). Wade has done a marvelous job as DC. I can't ask for much more out of what he gets out of the players and their play on the field. I guess it's just the soft pudgy demeanor of his that kind of makes me think..eww. But he pulls the right strings. He's been great at challeging plays. Been pretty good in time clock management. ...and the players seem to have his back. He's earned his keep.

Trading Witten? Absurd. I wouldn't do it for a first rounder. What value could we possibly get to justify it? It'd probably be too high for anyone to want to give up. I have the mindset that consistency and chemistry are irreplaceable. It takes too long to build up, and those are the things that make championship teams. Look at the Patriots trading Seymour for a future first. You may think it was a good move... but was it? It caused rumblings in the lockerroom that irked a lot of players about the way thier management operates. They lost not just a good, reliable player, but also leadership and mental toughness.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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No. It would be a terribly stupid and unnecessary gamble. Witten is and has always been Romo's favorite target. His safety valve. There is no guarantee that he will ever have the same rapport with Bennett.

If you want guarantees, go play little league soccer. I fully acknowledge and understand that Jason Witten will never, ever, ever, ever be traded. Its not happening. That wasn't the point. But its a move that, provided both conditions are set are satisfied, would help our team get better. No risk no reward.

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As for best friends...I dont know or care who he likes more but, he and Witten are very close. They have an excellent relationship on and off of the field. They spend time with each other off the field, very frequently. But anyway, Romo doesnt have a better on field relationship with any player more so than Witten. He always knows where he is, and they gel beautifully. To trade him would be moronic....and it's not going to happen. And again, Bennett hasnt even looked as good as Phillips, let alone, Witten. Trading Witten, in hope of Bennett reaching his full potential, when handed the starting job, is just plain old stupid.
Again, all well and good. My point was that Bennett isn't performing because he needs to be the guy. You can argue whether he's justified in being that way or not, etc etc, but the dude is an elite talent who, imo, will be an elite player at some point in time. Now, if Dallas doesn't agree with that assessment, then fine. But if they think they have an All Pro on their hands, and there's no way to get him on the field, how else do you get that value?

Its obviously never going to happen, but if you can't see the wisdom of it from a hypothetical perspective then there's something wrong with you.

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As for LT and ILB. It's not like we dont have picks this year and Bradie and Brooking arent going anywhere yet. And we have already drafted two very athletic ILBs a year ago, who can certainly pan out. And you can even throw in Free's name at T, who I'm not sold on as a LT but, his play would certainly give Dallas hope enough, not to do something as drastic as trading Witten.

The best case for NOT doing it is that Dallas doesn't necessarily have any glaring needs, so why trade a sure HOFer for a maybe? Like I said, the only way you do it is if you're sure that Bennett is a stud in his own right. No one wants to trade a guy like Witten and see Bennett flounder, so you'd have to be 100% positive.

But if you have a chance to get a guy like Patrick Willis or Jon Beason in the middle of your defense, or Ryan Clady protecting Romo's blind side for the next decade, while STILL having an elite TE....exactly why wouldn't you go for it?
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I understand where DWM is coming from... Bob has said the same thing about trading Witten in the past. Sorry Bob, he didn't steal the thought from you although you probably want the credit.... reason I say that is because he blocks your posts from his reading view. haha.

I just don't see the reward being significant enough. Witten is a keeper. No point in trading him until our run is over.

Trading Bennett though... I'm all for that.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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The Wade hate is unwarranted. Losing Wade would be more devastating to the defense, than losing Garrett would be to our offense. Wade has more than pulled his weight around with his defensive play calling. I dont know what else you want him to do, seriously. The team is playing with heart, they love playing for him, his defense is damn near brilliant. What else? ugh.

And as for Folk...the guy was one of the best kickers since he came came in the league...and his cutting would be Jerry's call more so than anyone elses. And Folk should have continued to get the benefit of the doubt because, he was one of the league's best. In the end...this ended up costing us nothing. I dont have a problem with the way it was handled because, I personally gave our pro bowl kicker the benefit of the doubt for a while.

As for offense...Miles and such. Garrett has power...a lot of power. He's the assistant head coach with a lot of pull and the overseer of the offense. I'd argue that Garrett deserves more blame when talking about Miles lack of playing time earlier in the year and Felix being no where to be found in most weeks.

Wade gets way too much hate.

And as for trading Witten. A hilarious notion...it will never happen. The guy is a Hall of Famer, not to mention, Romo's favorite target and best friend. Yeah, that would be a great move. Also, what has Bennett done? He's being out performed by John Phillips for weeks now.

What is more hilarious is that you're blaming a lot of the offensive ineptitude on him. Finger is pointed at the wrong person. Wade is pulling double duty as a HC and defensive coordinator. You're failing to see how much play Garrett really has over the offense. Blaming our offensive red zone deficiencies on Wade, makes absolutely no sense, what so ever. Garrett is primarily drawing up game plans, Garrett is making those calls.

And what's wrong with benching players in a meaningless Washington game? We had a first round bye and home field throughout. ugh. Find me a coach who doesnt do that.

The HC has to be accountable. Part of the problem is that Wade isn't a strong enough personality to keep Jerry in check. Parcells was, and that is how we got this embarrassment of riches from a personnel standpoint. Look around at our players, and the majority of the ones that are tearing it up right now, with the notable exceptions of Spencer, Felix and Jenkins, were brought here by Parcells. He brought in Austin, Romo, Witten, Barber, Ware, Ratliff, Newman...the core of the team. When Jerry gets too carried away with meddling with the roster, you end up with situations like the Roy Williams one. Luckily, there was a Parcells' guy ready and waiting to clean up the mess and provide a safety net for that move.

But you have to hold the HC accountable for every thing on the team, because he is supposed to be the one in charge. If there's a problem with the playcalling or offensive schemes, he's accountable! Why? Because those positions are accountable to him and if things aren't working, he is responsible to fix it. But he doesn't have the power to do some of the things he SHOULD be required to do, and its because of who he is. We need someone who has the force of personality to keep Jerry at bay, and I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that Wade isn't that guy, no?

I mean, the list of issues with Wade is so long and far reaching that its not worth trying to delineate.

I can't say that I'm surprised that you guys are still behind him. Die hards are ever a forgiving lot, because they just want their teams to do well. I see that, and I can't hold that against anyone. But Wade has shown me enough. The guy isn't head coaching material. A head coach's job is to get the best out of his team. This team has as much talent or more than any other team in the league, and it hasn't performed like a top 5 team except during a few brief stretches of his tenure.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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I understand where DWM is coming from... Bob has said the same thing about trading Witten in the past. Sorry Bob, he didn't steal the thought from you although you probably want the credit.... reason I say that is because he blocks your posts from his reading view. haha.

I just don't see the reward being significant enough. Witten is a keeper. No point in trading him until our run is over.

Trading Bennett though... I'm all for that.
I am pretty sure 100% of my posts are read 100% of the time.

Notwithstanding, it ain't I want to trade Witten -- it is that I think we have a talent surplus in a position and wish to leverage it the best way possible.

To me, Witten gets you the most and Bennett while not as good -- can be.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
Wade should still be fired. I've seen enough, and not even a Super Bowl win will convince me otherwise.


Good to see you posting around here again, BBD, its been awhile since we've talked, bro. Spencer and Jenkins have obviously been huge developments for this team. If Spencer can sustain this level of play, it will transform this team in a way that should strike the fear of God into the entire league. Now Dallas can pressure the QB and collapse the pocket without ever having to bring more than 5, and be able to rely on 4 man rushes predominantly as well. Spencer is playing as well as any pass rusher in the league atm, and I never thought I would see myself type those words. Its been awesome to see.


I want to chime in on Bennett, though. I'm going to make a cross-sport comparison, here, so just go with me. But I think that Bennett is in a very similar situation right now to Andrew Bynum of the Lakers. With Gasol out, Bynum has looked like a young Tim Duncan or David Robinson. He has been flat out dominant. However, just as soon as Gasol comes back in the lineup, he regresses. His rebounding falls off, his defense sags, he looks lost on the court and quits playing with as much energy. He's a completely different player.

This is exactly what is going on with Bennett. He's an alpha dog, and he is struggling to find a way to fit into a supporting role. In preseason, when he was getting a ton of reps and getting plays called for him, he flat dominated. He was every bit as good as Witten--and I know that's practically sacrilege to say, but it is what it is--and was arguably the best player in camp and exhibition play on the team.

He needs to be the guy. Much in the same way that Anthony Spencer needed to be the guy. He just wasn't the type who could come in and give you big production off the bench or in small doses. Some guys can, some can't. He can't, and its obvious. But it certainly fits into his personal profile.


So, solutions? I think if you're Dallas, you quietly--VERY quietly--start gauging any interest for Witten. He's an All Timer, an amazing player who is integral to the team, but he's coming up on 30 and his value is at its peak right this minute. If you can get two firsts or a first and a second, you should look at it. I don't see how a team like Cincinnati, New England, Miami, Carolina, or KC wouldn't look at giving up a nice ransom to have an A+ at the position. Teams with a good and/or young QB who needs a reliable target or safety blanket might be willing to send a lot of value.

That said, I am not in favor of trading Witten unless we get a massive amount of value in return AND have a specific plan for a player that solves a serious issue. For example: let's say Dallas' FO decides that our S position has to be resolved. The do not feel that they will be able to retain Gerald Sensabaugh for reasonable value, Ken Hamlin has been a mild disappointment and they want to address the position. They stack the draft board and Earl Thomas rates as a top 10 pick who they feel like they may able to position themselves to get in the early teens. They feel that Miami may have serious interest in Witten and decide to float his name to BP in casual talks. BP takes the bait and, after extensive back and forth he offers this year's first (#12) and second (#44).

This is the type of scenario that would have to unfold to make it work for me, personally, and even then I would be devastated.


BUT, and here's where the reality of things come into play, I think Martellus Bennett is a future All Pro. The guy has all the qualities you look for, and is a natural born TE. If Dallas trades him, I guarantee we will have seller's remorse. There's no way we're getting more than a 2nd for him, and probably not even that. And with Witten here, we won't get more than 40% of what he is capable of giving us. We hit a home run with him, and I don't want to see another team getting the benefit of that home run.

Just my .02
Long time bro, its always a pleasure.

You make a very very good point on Bennett. That analogy was spot on. But here's the thing, how do we know if he's clutch?

Say you trade Witten, now Bennett steps in and gives you similar production and the added bonus of youth. But one thing Witten always did, was make the clutch play. He was always Romo's safety blanket. What happens when you remove that piece to the puzzle? Its a ballsy call, one I wouldn't make, but I can see where you're coming from with it.

As for Wade, I know you hate the guy, and I can see why you do, but I doubt he gets fired at this point. Put it this way though, as a Giants fan, I'd be happy to see Wade return to the Cowboys, unless him getting fired meant he became our future DC.

So I can see why you feel the way you do. I can also see why other Cowboys fans disagree though.

You know whats going unnoticed? Bobby Carpenter has looked pretty good in his new nickel role. Nobody is ever mentioning that. I just wanted to discuss it a little.

Maybe all hope is not lost for the guy.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
If you want guarantees, go play little league soccer. I fully acknowledge and understand that Jason Witten will never, ever, ever, ever be traded. Its not happening. That wasn't the point. But its a move that, provided both conditions are set are satisfied, would help our team get better. No risk no reward.



Again, all well and good. My point was that Bennett isn't performing because he needs to be the guy. You can argue whether he's justified in being that way or not, etc etc, but the dude is an elite talent who, imo, will be an elite player at some point in time. Now, if Dallas doesn't agree with that assessment, then fine. But if they think they have an All Pro on their hands, and there's no way to get him on the field, how else do you get that value?

Its obviously never going to happen, but if you can't see the wisdom of it from a hypothetical perspective then there's something wrong with you.




The best case for NOT doing it is that Dallas doesn't necessarily have any glaring needs, so why trade a sure HOFer for a maybe? Like I said, the only way you do it is if you're sure that Bennett is a stud in his own right. No one wants to trade a guy like Witten and see Bennett flounder, so you'd have to be 100% positive.

But if you have a chance to get a guy like Patrick Willis or Jon Beason in the middle of your defense, or Ryan Clady protecting Romo's blind side for the next decade, while STILL having an elite TE....exactly why wouldn't you go for it?

Ugh. As much as it pains me to say...Bennett hasnt shown anything. As of right now, he's a blocking TE, who drops a lot of passes, doesnt fully grasp the playbook, and has a questionable attitude. The guy has even been losing snaps in our double TE formations to Phillips. Who is playing better in those opportunities. Yes, lets put Bennett in the Hall right now. Suggesting that we trade Witten is just a completely ludicrous idea. What's worse, is the excuse that Bennett isnt living up to his potential, because he's not "the guy" right now. ha. And LOL at us having no way to get him on the field...he's constantly lining up in the slot and doing absolutely nothing. We're better when we use 3 WRs instead of having Bennett play the slot. He doesnt even have Romo's trust because, he cant hold onto the ball. Now, I like him but to trade your proven commodity, one of the best in the league mind you, just so you can start Bennett...it's idiotic. You may get a nice draft choice but, you may also see your offense take a giant leap backward. Dont fix what isnt broken. It just makes zero sense...and on top of all of this...Witten is 27 freaking years old and showing absolutely zero signs of slowing. At a position that can be played well into your 30s at a pretty elite level. You say, you only do this if Bennett has shown us enough, so that we know he's going to pan out. Well again, he hasnt shown us anything. Period.
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