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Old 12-18-2006, 06:41 PM    (permalink
slimx37
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Bill Parcells has said in the past that there are usually 4-5 guys who are elite status guys who come into the league ready to play, after that it is a bunch of guys who you will have to work on, i.e. coach up to get them ready to play, now we have been lucky the past few years with our picks, but even ware is in parcells mind a work in progress i think carp is coming along just fine, if a little slower than we would like. This is why draft experts say it takes three years to grade a draft, cuz it takes that long to coach some of these guys.

Carp is playing more and more which means he has shown improvement in practice and is earning parcells trust as a lb and as a passrusher, honestly in my opinion he would start full time if he was better against the run as he has shown some good moves for a rookie as a pass rusher and a good ability to cover. I fully expect him to start next year and to be more of an impact player these last two weeks and into the playoffs

On T.O. this to me is a the first time this year i have seriously been angry with him, spitting on anyone is an absolute classless act and reflects poorly on the cowboys, no matter what the circumstances it showed me that he is not someone i want on this team

I think philly will be a tough game for us this weekend were in and hopefully we don't lose focus and allow garcia to do what vick did this weekend cuz the offense cant score 31 every game, lol well maybe they can we average 27.6 i think, but defense wins championships
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.
Still makes me

Still think I'm the only person who could care less the TO spit on Hall. Now Champ or another "top" CB I would care.
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:27 PM    (permalink
 
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That avy is too big. Make it smaller.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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That avy is too big. Make it smaller.
You ruin everyone's fun.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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1. Reggie Nelson, FS, Florida
2. Craig Davis, WR, LSU
3. Manuel Ramirez, OG, Texas Tech
4. Jonathan Wade, CB, Tennessee
5. Paul Soliai, NT, Utah
6. Isaiah Stanback, QB, Washington
7. Ryan Moore, WR, Miami (FL)
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
While it may not be an indication of him turning in a LTesque performance, Carp's 1.5 sacks was by no means just a "right place, right time" type of deal. He was spying Vick in our nickel sets for most of the game. His first sack was a direct result of him doing this. His second one was a play in which he had beaten his man after being initially blocked, and him and DeMarcus converged at the same time. If either player had not been there, then the other would still have gotten the sack. Besides that, Bobby was in the backfield on several different plays, and showed a fair amount of ability rushing the passer. There is no reason to down-play what he did. He had an excellent game, and we might be seeing him finally breakout as a player, as he has been progressively better the last 3 or 4 weeks. Of course, he still has a ways to go to justify his draft position, but he is definitely making progress.

Also, I'm disappointed in the TO detractors that are downplaying his role in this game. Without him, we lose. Period. He was a true difference maker in this game, and his first TD was a catch that maybe 4 or 5 other guys could have made. Not only that, his second TD catch was a play that he simply ran right by DeAngelo "NFL's fastest man" Hall on a straight go-route. There was no double move, hesitation, or anything else. He just flat out ran his ass. I think that's what is meant by the term "game speed".

Obviously I'm a big fan, but I just want to say again that I love DeMarcus Ware. He was truly awesome in this game. You will never see a more athletic play then that Int he made. You simply won't, and it is another in a long line of things that he does that Merriman will never be able to do. Still, his failings as an all-around pass rusher are undeniable. He has got to learn how to do more than simply run around or bull-rush OTs. However, every other facet of his game has reached an All-Pro level for his position. He was covering Crumpler for much of the night, and was only beaten once - which happened to be a play in which he was in perfect position, and Vick just lasered the ball in the perfect spot with Alge making a nice catch despite Ware getting a hand on the ball. Not only that, but DMW's FF likely would have been the play of the game had not Ayodele just coughed the ball up for no reason. Reminiscent of the Kiwanuka play two weeks ago. I guess it really does even out over time. Oh, and just one other note, Ware got another sack early in the game that was spotted incorrectly, and thus wasn't credited as such. He stopped Vick 1 1/2 yards behind the line, but the refs spotted the ball back at the original LOS, thus negating the stat, but I digress.

Speaking of Crumpler, there was an obsolutely fantastic play that occurred in the 4th quarter that I feel compelled to point out. Deion was in the booth acting like he knows more than anyone else in the league (surprise surprise), and before a crucial 3rd down play he starts talking about them needing to get the ball to Crumpler more, and points out that he is being matched up fairly often with Terrence Newman and how they should exploit that as a huge mismatch in their (Falcon's) favor......lmao. Right on cue, Vick drops back and throws a dart to Crumpler on the seam - and gets the ball batted down by????? Terrence Newman. There is a bit of a dead silence, broken by Deion saying "Well, that's why he's one of the best corners in the league". I'm telling you, it was choice. Hopefully you guys can see it again on NFL Replay and enjoy it at home.
I agree on Ware. He's an all pro in every facet of his game except pass rushing. Do you think if he doesn't improve his pass rushing technique that he will be better off at SAM? It kind of makes the Carp pick a waste though unless he moves inside.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Staubach12
1. Reggie Nelson, FS, Florida
2. Craig Davis, WR, LSU
3. Manuel Ramirez, OG, Texas Tech
4. Jonathan Wade, CB, Tennessee
5. Paul Soliai, NT, Utah
6. Isaiah Stanback, QB, Washington
7. Ryan Moore, WR, Miami (FL)
I really doubt Nelson falls to you guys. Love Ramirez as a selection, I think you gotta get Soliai as at least a backup to Fergy, because you lack legitimate depth at NT.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:54 PM    (permalink
 
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That avy is too big. Make it smaller.
You ruin everyone's fun.
I know, I'm just a big party pooper.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ShutDwn



I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.
Still makes me

Still think I'm the only person who could care less the TO spit on Hall. Now Champ or another "top" CB I would care.
Hall is an ass
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.
Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.
No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him.
So you're saying that Carp just happened to be in the right place so Vick could "run" into him? Vick sacked himself in other words right? Those type of sacks happen all of the time. That does not diminish the sack. Would you rather Carp not been there? Vick probably still would have been running. This is not being a homer, it's wanting someone on your team to step up and do their job. Frankly, you sound like a hater to me.
Im not a hater, i just think that for people who couldnt see the game, they should know that he wasnt some bad ass out there on the feild. yeah i want the sacks, and yeah i want carpenter to do good but im not ready to say hes becoming the 18th pick we drafted him at.
Understood. But you have to admit that he's got to start somewhere. Can we at least agree on that?
Yes i completely agree with you. I dont want people to get the wrong idea that im hating on him, i liked the pick at the time, and i still do. Even with ellis' progression he was getting up there in age and we needed a good prospect to put there. Now the only "old" guy on the D is fergy.

I guess i was pretty critical but its only because im trying to play devils advocate to the "annointing" if you will.

Maybe it was just because he was going against vick, but even on run plays carp looked slower than i thought he was. I thought he had DMW speed? maybe i was mistaken.

Either way im happy we have him on the field. The more he plays the more comfortable he will get and i hope that as he gets more comfortable he will show that the 18th pick was warrented.

I still havnt seen anyone pick up on what watkins did, was i the only one who was impressed with how much more it looked like he actually knew what he was doing? none of the big plays came on him.

I just hope we can get watkins to the point where even if he isnt an all pro, he will have the smarts to play centerfield and allow roy to get back up inside the box.. Im really pissed with how we've been using roy, he isnt even a play maker in the role we use him at, you hardly hear his name except for "roy is bad in coverage and you saw it again right there"

Looking ahead to next week. Go Giants! i see Terry glenn and witten being our playmakers against the eagles with all the focus back on owens -- romo cant force it to him this game.

Julius had better step up because the questions about barber starting are increasing through the media. I really think julius and barber have the ability to be the best 1 -2 tandem in the league if Julius would just stop running like a girl. Someone said that he is just looking for a place to fall and i fully agree with that -- it goes back to my theory that his prior injuries are in his head and i think hes contemplating the fact that if he gets injured, he wont get the starting job back. I wish i could have a conversation with him and say "look buddy, you gonna lose it if you get injured, but you also going to lose it if you keep playing like a chick. Give it your all on every play and dont worried about getting injured"

He always goes down after first contact where as barber never does.its not like he can break them as good as barber, but he stops moving his legs, lowers his head, and does a weak lunge forward on every attempt.

I also think we need to use julius in more screen passes, hes shown some explosivness with the ball in space. If we could just get him going it would add 1 more weapon to take to the post season.

Id like to hear from some of you about fasano. Hes getting playing time but it doesnt look like we actually send him on many passing routes? whats up with that?

Finally, I do see the eagles game being close. We have problems with backs like Tiki, Reggie, and the fullbacks out in space as we have seen lately. This is pretty much westbrooks forte'. If im the eagles, i stop running westbrook and go back to last season eagles with 40 - 50 passes, mostly dinking and dunking and then taking shots deep. What do you guys thinK?
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.
Still makes me

Still think I'm the only person who could care less the TO spit on Hall. Now Champ or another "top" CB I would care.
Hall is an ass
I could care less, spitting will always be looked down upon but this has gotten way over blown because its T.O.
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
While it may not be an indication of him turning in a LTesque performance, Carp's 1.5 sacks was by no means just a "right place, right time" type of deal. He was spying Vick in our nickel sets for most of the game. His first sack was a direct result of him doing this. His second one was a play in which he had beaten his man after being initially blocked, and him and DeMarcus converged at the same time. If either player had not been there, then the other would still have gotten the sack. Besides that, Bobby was in the backfield on several different plays, and showed a fair amount of ability rushing the passer. There is no reason to down-play what he did. He had an excellent game, and we might be seeing him finally breakout as a player, as he has been progressively better the last 3 or 4 weeks. Of course, he still has a ways to go to justify his draft position, but he is definitely making progress.

Also, I'm disappointed in the TO detractors that are downplaying his role in this game. Without him, we lose. Period. He was a true difference maker in this game, and his first TD was a catch that maybe 4 or 5 other guys could have made. Not only that, his second TD catch was a play that he simply ran right by DeAngelo "NFL's fastest man" Hall on a straight go-route. There was no double move, hesitation, or anything else. He just flat out ran his ass. I think that's what is meant by the term "game speed".

Obviously I'm a big fan, but I just want to say again that I love DeMarcus Ware. He was truly awesome in this game. You will never see a more athletic play then that Int he made. You simply won't, and it is another in a long line of things that he does that Merriman will never be able to do. Still, his failings as an all-around pass rusher are undeniable. He has got to learn how to do more than simply run around or bull-rush OTs. However, every other facet of his game has reached an All-Pro level for his position. He was covering Crumpler for much of the night, and was only beaten once - which happened to be a play in which he was in perfect position, and Vick just lasered the ball in the perfect spot with Alge making a nice catch despite Ware getting a hand on the ball. Not only that, but DMW's FF likely would have been the play of the game had not Ayodele just coughed the ball up for no reason. Reminiscent of the Kiwanuka play two weeks ago. I guess it really does even out over time. Oh, and just one other note, Ware got another sack early in the game that was spotted incorrectly, and thus wasn't credited as such. He stopped Vick 1 1/2 yards behind the line, but the refs spotted the ball back at the original LOS, thus negating the stat, but I digress.

Speaking of Crumpler, there was an obsolutely fantastic play that occurred in the 4th quarter that I feel compelled to point out. Deion was in the booth acting like he knows more than anyone else in the league (surprise surprise), and before a crucial 3rd down play he starts talking about them needing to get the ball to Crumpler more, and points out that he is being matched up fairly often with Terrence Newman and how they should exploit that as a huge mismatch in their (Falcon's) favor......lmao. Right on cue, Vick drops back and throws a dart to Crumpler on the seam - and gets the ball batted down by????? Terrence Newman. There is a bit of a dead silence, broken by Deion saying "Well, that's why he's one of the best corners in the league". I'm telling you, it was choice. Hopefully you guys can see it again on NFL Replay and enjoy it at home.
Just to add to what you said about ware... I think as far as he and merriman, DMW has picked up the containment and coverage to the extent that Merriman has picked up rushing the passer. That said, i do think merriman has the ability to be just as good in coverage as ware, hes got the athletic ability he just needs to put it together. I feel the same about ware as his pass rushing, now that he has exemplified to bill that he can do the things that are most important to bill, hopefully we start working on his pass rush more.

Either way im happy we have ware, i dont feel cheated or feel like we missed out by not grabbing merriman. they both have great skills in different areas and are both young enough to become the top 2 OLB's in the league over the next few years.

We shouldnt even have the discussion anymore, because the only reason for comparing them would be if we made the wrong choice.

I think everyone on the board is happy we have Ware. We have just as much potential, great coverage and containment, an average pass rush that is getting a heck of a lot better now that we are shifting him between the weak and strong side, and no steroids. I dont think merriman will make the mistake of taking a substance that can be traced ever again, but he is still using HGH and it has the potential to cause serious problems that will result in cutting his career short if he isnt careful.


EDIT: i too noticed that sack on vick that wasnt credited earlier in the game... Although i think it may not have been considered a sack because it was viewed as a designed run by vick instead of the spot of the ball. i could be wrong though.

On that note, if you look at newmans stats he is only credited with 1 for 12 yards, what about the pick of eli in the endzone for a touchback?
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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I haven't been keeping up with a discussion, but here's a note on Carpenter that may explain some stuff to some of you.

It's harder to move from a true 4-3 OLB to a 3-4 OLB than it is from a 4-3 DE. This is because defending the run is so much different.

As a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB you have contain responsibilities on most plays. This means you always have to have outside leverage on your man and let nobody outside of you. The next step is to collapse the inside hole through outside pressure and learning to understand tricks RBs use to draw you inside.

As a 4-3 OLB when a play is properly contained you are always attacking the play from the inside on the edge instead of the outside. This is the big difference between the two types of LBs.

It will probably take a full season of learning and practice for Carpenter to learn and get a feel for the proper way to defense the run. A lot of the things you have to do wrong first a couple times to really understand what you're supposed to do. In my mind it's the only thing he doesn't do well right now and he has the right body type to be able to do this in the future. He's a good pass rusher because of his nickel DE experience in college and is also athletic enough to defend the pass.

Whether or not anybody here likes it he won't be a complete player this year, but he will be an exceptional player in the future.
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Old 12-19-2006, 04:32 AM    (permalink
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I haven't been keeping up with a discussion, but here's a note on Carpenter that may explain some stuff to some of you.

It's harder to move from a true 4-3 OLB to a 3-4 OLB than it is from a 4-3 DE. This is because defending the run is so much different.

As a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB you have contain responsibilities on most plays. This means you always have to have outside leverage on your man and let nobody outside of you. The next step is to collapse the inside hole through outside pressure and learning to understand tricks RBs use to draw you inside.

As a 4-3 OLB when a play is properly contained you are always attacking the play from the inside on the edge instead of the outside. This is the big difference between the two types of LBs.

It will probably take a full season of learning and practice for Carpenter to learn and get a feel for the proper way to defense the run. A lot of the things you have to do wrong first a couple times to really understand what you're supposed to do. In my mind it's the only thing he doesn't do well right now and he has the right body type to be able to do this in the future. He's a good pass rusher because of his nickel DE experience in college and is also athletic enough to defend the pass.

Whether or not anybody here likes it he won't be a complete player this year, but he will be an exceptional player in the future.
I agree with a lot of the things you said. I also think that Carps problem is a learning problem. Because he is very good at shedding blocks...he just seems to be late or take the inside angle...and give up containment. My question of concern is where is Carp 3 years from now. Is he inside or is he outside?
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.
Still makes me

Still think I'm the only person who could care less the TO spit on Hall. Now Champ or another "top" CB I would care.
Hall is an ass
I could care less, spitting will always be looked down upon but this has gotten way over blown because its T.O.
To add to this, does anyone just laugh when ESPN tries to say TO is "lucky Hall didn't react?" What would Hall of done to TO? Come on now.
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Old 12-19-2006, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Here's my commentary on the spitting incident.

To me, it's 100% ridiculous that spitting is considered so heinous. I know that players throw punches at each other every day in practice or in games. Somehow that is acceptable.

The fact that violence is accpetable but spitting is not is a terrible commentary on society.

Actually the fact that you can see fights or murders on TV but a woman's boob throws everyone into a frenzy is also a terrible commentary on American society.

I'm so sick and tired of people saying things are 'disrespectful' and getting offended by them. If anyone says or does anything to you, YOU and only YOU decide if you are going to be bothered by it. If it bothers YOU it's YOUR problem. The insecurity or low self-esteem you have is YOUR own problem. It is called SELF ESTEEM, meaning it's how you feel about YOURSELF. No one else is to blame.

If someone starts calling me names or spits on me as I'm walking down the street, if I get hurt by that it's my problem. I have allowed them to affect me. However, if someone hits me with a baseball bat or clocks me on the head THEY ARE HURTING ME, I have no choice in the matter. Our society instills the wrong values in people and this 'victim' attitude is terrible.

Some pose the argument that 'what if this happened on the street'. My statement is that if you called someone a 'mother f*cker' you'd be in just as much of a confrontation. If you called someone's family out, you'd be in a confrontation. Whether the person should react that way or not is a source of debate, but the fact that they will react that way is not.

How is it that if you punched someone in society you'd go to jail, but if you spit on them nothing would happen. Yet, punching isn't considered as heinous in sports?

The athletes are a bunch of crybabies with low self esteem if calling names or spitting disrespects them that much.

P.S. I do not like TO, I'm not saying he's a good person or that I want him as a role model for anyone.
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Old 12-19-2006, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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I understand your point Alum, but thats just how society is. Punching someone is viewed the way it is because for over 1000 years its been part of male/male controntations. But ever since the beginning of time spitting on someone is interpreted as the ultimate disrespect. When you punch someone, you punch them. We've all been punched before.

But spitting on someone is showing zero respect for them as a person. And that invokes more anger than a punch.

We have boxing as a sport. But we don't have the world championship of spitting. There is a difference in the actions. Maybe its society's fault, but thats just how it is.
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Old 12-19-2006, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
I understand your point Alum, but thats just how society is. Punching someone is viewed the way it is because for over 1000 years its been part of male/male controntations. But ever since the beginning of time spitting on someone is interpreted as the ultimate disrespect. When you punch someone, you punch them. We've all been punched before.

But spitting on someone is showing zero respect for them as a person. And that invokes more anger than a punch.

We have boxing as a sport. But we don't have the world championship of spitting. There is a difference in the actions. Maybe its society's fault, but thats just how it is.
I am saying that if someone 'disrespecting' you causes more grief to your psyche than say a fight, then you have issues. Those issues aren't anyone elses fault but your own. Athletes should stop crying about being disrespected all the time.
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Old 12-19-2006, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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I understand your point Alum, but thats just how society is. Punching someone is viewed the way it is because for over 1000 years its been part of male/male controntations. But ever since the beginning of time spitting on someone is interpreted as the ultimate disrespect. When you punch someone, you punch them. We've all been punched before.

But spitting on someone is showing zero respect for them as a person. And that invokes more anger than a punch.

We have boxing as a sport. But we don't have the world championship of spitting. There is a difference in the actions. Maybe its society's fault, but thats just how it is.
I am saying that if someone 'disrespecting' you causes more grief to your psyche than say a fight, then you have issues. Those issues aren't anyone elses fault but your own. Athletes should stop crying about being disrespected all the time.
So youre saying that if someone spit on you it wouldn't invoke anger?

I think both spitting and punching invoke fighting situations. To me, theyre both personal attacks. No one spits on another man without the acknowledgement of some sort of repurcussion, whether its a spit back at them or physical controntation.

I think youre taking it a little out of context as well. People get disrespected all the time. It happens at work, it happens at home, everywhere. And yes, it shouldn't warrant a fight, but spitting is a different kind of disrespect. I consider it a physical action. Its not a verbal exchange, or what not, when you spit on someone youre physicall attacking them. Yes, it doesn't hurt like a punch, but its still an attack that shows extreme disrespect for you as a person.

Its like slapping another man. Im sure you saw the Rick James skit. Charlie Murphy, in his own way said it best.

Charlie Murphy: I'm standing there I'm thinking, "This n___ really has lost his f____ mind." First of all, you don't slap a man. Ok. I mean, even when slapping was fashionable, ya know, they did it in Paris, some guy would come up, "I challenge you to a duel." They would have a gunfight after that, somebody had to go!


Spitting is the same, its a form of disrespect that you cannot equate with physical pain.
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Old 12-19-2006, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Ok guys we're taking this way too far out of the realm of football discusion. It's definitely an interesting debate/arguement but really doesn't have anything to do with football. I agree with BBD and I can agree with LSU only in the sense that it probably does have something to do with self esteem and psychological issues but spitting on someone is inherently disrespectful. I don't think it's abnormal to feel disrespected by that even if it does reflect on your own self esteem and psycholgical state. It's really a man thing, you don't see women do stuff like this by and large and women may not be as offended or affected. As men we can accept a lot of stuff I think but when we really feel as though we have been disrespected or denegrated it angers us immensely, that's just the way it is. Furthermore I think we as men really look down on actions such as spitting that we view as the actions of a p u s s y. There are certain things that real men just don't do like sucker puching or spitting or hitting a woman etc. That's how I feel on the matter but obviously this has nothing to do with football so I think we should all just drop the discussion.
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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What I'm saying is that if someone spits on me, it's up to me to be offended or not. If I chose to be offended then that's my choice.

No one can offend me without my permission. They can however cause physical injury to me without my permission. Whether it's calling me names, insulting my family, spitting on me or some other non-physical attack, I have the power to chose to be offended or not.

That's the crux of the issue. Society has taken a 'vicitim' approach and now everyone justifies their actions because they were a victim of the offense. I personally find that argument about justification of retaliation based on this offense to be a weak and pathetic argument.

As for whether this is football related or not, it does directly relate to Terrell Owens and is based on recent actions so I feel it's completely relevent to the discussion.
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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LSU, In a way I agree with you but in a way I don't. It's like when you're a little kid and your parents tell you sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you. Well that sounds all well and good in theory but in reality it takes an incredibly strong person mentally and emotionally to not be affected by words that are extremely hurtful, disrespectful, and basically an attempt to make someone feel like something less than human, like a worthless piece of blank. Yes it's true that we can choose how we feel and how we react and how we percieve things like that but in reality it takes an extremely strong person mentally and emotionally to not be at least a little bit affected. I think the bottom line is that this is a divisive issue because our opinions on it were shaped by our own life and experiences and I'm presuming our lives and childhood were pretty different. LSU, I respect your intelligence and opinion but I think we will never agree on this, but it's definitely an interesting debate although I don't think it has anything to do with football. I've probably taken this too far as it is really interesting.
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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Yeah let's just drop the subject. Personally, I don't know anyone who wouldn't let it get to them (the spitting that is) but Im also known to be a fiery guy, so Im biased in that regards.
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Old 12-19-2006, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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It has as much to do with football as half of the stuff we talk about in here. Sportsmanship and inter-personal relationships are a big part of the game, and we are currently dealing with a rather well-publicized breach of the rules that govern those things.

I want to give props to my boy LSU for making such good points, and I couldn't possibly agree more. This is a mark on our society more than anything, and shows the complete loss of perspective that has come about in our culture. For example, take the Bengals. A team that has had EIGHT DIFFERENT ARRESTS in one season. After the first 4 or 5, it was merely a nagging problem that some people were talking about as something that "should be looked at", but was largely escaping notice from most media members, and was actually dismissed as a non-issue by the head coach. Now imagine what would have happened if a team had 4 or 5 incidents in the same span of players spitting on the opposition, including a couple of repeat offenders. There would be heads rolling, a media firestorm, the guilty parties would be vilified and slandered non-stop and the head coach may have lost his job over it. What does that tell you about the way things are viewed in this league?

It's worse to show contempt for another human being and be a bad sport than it is to endanger other people's lives by driving while intoxicated, or to be illegally carrying a deadly weapon etc. There is no one yelling at the top of their lungs about what a thug Chris Henry is, or how they would never want Deltha O'Neal as a teammate. In fact, if they ever do talk about them they show sympathy and say things like "I just hope he gets help", and yet TO is being used as a sounding board for people to get up on their soap-boxes and high-horses and talk down about someone.

I don't condone what TO did, nor do I think it reflects well upon the type of person he is, but the magnitutude of his offense is not anywhere in the neighborhood of some other things that go completely unnoticed and untalked about. It's inconsistent, unfair, and ultimately reflects back upon all the talking heads that run off their mouths in such a self-righteous manner.

LSU, my hat goes off to you for your post.
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