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Old 12-20-2006, 07:19 AM    (permalink
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TO snubbed for apparent reasons. Newman snubbed because he's not flashy, he just goes out there and shuts people down and doesn't say anything, so people don't know him. **** Deangelo Hall
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Old 12-20-2006, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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More interesting Parcells Draft History
This is a breakdown of Parcells drafts from the first day to the second day in percentage.

I broke this down in two catagories. His complete draft history...and his draft history since 1993 when the draft rounds were cut down.

Complete Draft History...In Percentage (in ratio of day1:day2)
QB- 3:3
RB- 6:10
WR- 11:10
TE- 5:10
OT- 5:8
OG- 11:8
C- 6:3
DE- 11:7
DT- 6:9
LB- ..:9
OLB- 8:1
ILB- 8:2
DB- 3:8
CB- 9:5
S- 8:4
K- 0:2
P- 0:1

Post 1993 Draft History...In Percentage (in ratio of day1:day2)
QB- 3:3
RB- 6:9
WR- 10:9
TE- 6:10
OT- 3:7
OG- 11:9
C- 6:10
DE- 11:6
DT- 6:7
LB- ..:6
OLB- 11:1
ILB- 9:3
DB- ..:3
CB- 9:7
S- ..:3
SS- 3:1
FS- 6:3
K- 0:1
P- 0:1
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Old 12-20-2006, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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A Chart
Day 1 = Blue
Day 2 = Purple

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Old 12-20-2006, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:09 AM    (permalink
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Using the chart I think we can get a slight glimps at might come.

I think its safe to say this chart doens't have much means at QB/DE/OLB/ILB/SS as those positions seem to be locks next year.

If for some reason JJ is not with us this year...I don't think we address it early...probabally won't address it with a scat back...but a player similar that is fairly explosive. Probabally someone with good hands if MB3 is the starter. If I had to pick a guy I would think parcells goes with someone like Norwood was last year. Small explosive and stronger than you think. A guy from this years class that I could see is Lorenzo Booker...guy who split the load...good hands and explosive. He also has some upside...I could definately see this.

Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.

I was mildly surprised at the number of OG taken in the first day by parcells...so I won't be surprised to see us address that early even if we do get someone in FA.

It may appear on the chart that CB would be a first day task. But the DB catagory kinda scews that. Realistically its a toss up. I think FS is definately more of a first day then a second day.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.
I agree with both statements. One thing to put into prospective is the amount of LBs taken on the second day. Since they were second day they were more of a project...thus being able to play inside or outside. I wasn't familiar with a lot of the names...and they were only drafted as LBs...so realistically its not as big as of a discrepency as it appears....but 1st day still outweighs 2nd day.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.
The difference is he actually drafted OTs in the first round when he was winning Super Bowls.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by thule
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.
I agree with both statements. One thing to put into prospective is the amount of LBs taken on the second day. Since they were second day they were more of a project...thus being able to play inside or outside. I wasn't familiar with a lot of the names...and they were only drafted as LBs...so realistically its not as big as of a discrepency as it appears....but 1st day still outweighs 2nd day.
LT, Banks, Pepper Johnson were all day one picks.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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[quote="Jughead10"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thule
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jughead10
Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.
I agree with both statements. One thing to put into prospective is the amount of LBs taken on the second day. Since they were second day they were more of a project...thus being able to play inside or outside. I wasn't familiar with a lot of the names...and they were only drafted as LBs...so realistically its not as big as of a discrepency as it appears....but 1st day still outweighs 2nd day.
LT, Banks, Pepper Johnson were all day one picks.[/quote

I know this...which is why there is no day one LBs in the chart...only second day guys weren't drafted at a certain LB position.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.
The difference is he actually drafted OTs in the first round when he was winning Super Bowls.
Well that chart is post 1993. Since the charts would be slightly skewed with 12 round to choose players from.

Since 1993 he has drafted only one OT's on the first day.

Jacob Rogers in the second round #52 overall.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.
The difference is he actually drafted OTs in the first round when he was winning Super Bowls.
Parcells has never drafted a OT in the first round.

In 1983 his first year as the Giants HC he drafted Karl Nelson in the third round #70 overall.

In 1988 he drafted John Elliot in the 3rd round #36 overall.

His last first day OT was Jacob Rogers in the 2nd round #52 overall.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.
The difference is he actually drafted OTs in the first round when he was winning Super Bowls.
Parcells has never drafted a OT in the first round.

In 1983 his first year as the Giants HC he drafted Karl Nelson in the third round #70 overall.

In 1988 he drafted John Elliot in the 3rd round #36 overall.

His last first day OT was Jacob Rogers in the 2nd round #52 overall.
Thats correct. I meant first day not round. I actually know Karl Nelson too. He's a good guy.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10
Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.
I agree with both statements. One thing to put into prospective is the amount of LBs taken on the second day. Since they were second day they were more of a project...thus being able to play inside or outside. I wasn't familiar with a lot of the names...and they were only drafted as LBs...so realistically its not as big as of a discrepency as it appears....but 1st day still outweighs 2nd day.
LT, Banks, Pepper Johnson were all day one picks.
Here is a list of the draft picks where no ILB/OLB position was specified...please fill me in if you have any input...even tho IDK if I"ll change it since they weren't drafted to play a certain position.
  • Darrell Patterson
    Andy Headen
    Robbie Jones
    Lawrence Green
    Gregg Dubroc
    Jerry Kimmel
    Chuck Faucette
    Jerome Rinehart
    Eric Smith
    Tim Scharf
    Marc Megna
    J.J. Syvrud
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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Off the top of my head Andy Headen played primarily outside linebacker. I think he might have been a true DE in college.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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Out of the last 21 OL drafted by parcells. (every one 1993-2006).

Only two have been from the west coast.
David Loverne, San Jose State
Jacob Rogers, USC

IDK if you would consider Weber state west coast...I believe its utah. No matter how you look at it thats quite the ratio.

The others are from central to east.
  • Penn State
    Texas Southern
    Navy
    Syracuse
    Colorado
    Texas
    Oklahoma
    East Carolina
    Cincinnati
    Cirginia
    Brigham Young
    Mississippi State
    Illinois
    Kansas STate
    Colorado
    LSU
    Pittsburgh
    Texas Tech
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Another interesting note...since 1993 parcells has invested a total of 8-10% of his picks into the CB position. Since he has been in dallas he has invested a wapping 18%. Not only this but he has invested 8% more into this secondary then he has all together in the past 13 years. I bet if I pull the figures from 1993-1999 the stats would be even more impressive. The positions we seemed to have not go after are k/p/qb...all of which parcells seems to be able to find without the draft. The one position that we haven't addressed as much as he has in the past is the NT position. This I think should be something interesting to find. Not only has he not invested as much in the NT position but he also has 5% less of his draft picks in the LB corp...which seems strange being that we seem to go LB alot.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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It has as much to do with football as half of the stuff we talk about in here. Sportsmanship and inter-personal relationships are a big part of the game, and we are currently dealing with a rather well-publicized breach of the rules that govern those things.

I want to give props to my boy LSU for making such good points, and I couldn't possibly agree more. This is a mark on our society more than anything, and shows the complete loss of perspective that has come about in our culture. For example, take the Bengals. A team that has had EIGHT DIFFERENT ARRESTS in one season. After the first 4 or 5, it was merely a nagging problem that some people were talking about as something that "should be looked at", but was largely escaping notice from most media members, and was actually dismissed as a non-issue by the head coach. Now imagine what would have happened if a team had 4 or 5 incidents in the same span of players spitting on the opposition, including a couple of repeat offenders. There would be heads rolling, a media firestorm, the guilty parties would be vilified and slandered non-stop and the head coach may have lost his job over it. What does that tell you about the way things are viewed in this league?

It's worse to show contempt for another human being and be a bad sport than it is to endanger other people's lives by driving while intoxicated, or to be illegally carrying a deadly weapon etc. There is no one yelling at the top of their lungs about what a thug Chris Henry is, or how they would never want Deltha O'Neal as a teammate. In fact, if they ever do talk about them they show sympathy and say things like "I just hope he gets help", and yet TO is being used as a sounding board for people to get up on their soap-boxes and high-horses and talk down about someone.

I don't condone what TO did, nor do I think it reflects well upon the type of person he is, but the magnitutude of his offense is not anywhere in the neighborhood of some other things that go completely unnoticed and untalked about. It's inconsistent, unfair, and ultimately reflects back upon all the talking heads that run off their mouths in such a self-righteous manner.

LSU, my hat goes off to you for your post.
Come on now, be honest with yourself...we both know that if TO wasn't a Cowboy you wouldn't have the same stance on this situation.

In fact, Im pretty sure you weren't exactly as compassionate about the subject matter as you are now when Taylor did it last year.

I ask all Dallas fans here to ask yourself this. Did you rip on Sean Taylor last year for doing it? Because if you did, you have no right to defend TO for doing it this year, or make it out to be any less significant of an action. They were both wrong and both deserved all the backlash they got for their actions.

Im not saying it because he's a Cowboy either. Its just the truth. If one of my guys did that Id be flipping a brick on the Giants team discussion. I just don't find it appropriate in any way no matter how you slice it. And to nonchalently brush it off like it was nothing, like he did is absolutely ridiculous. And then to appeal the fine and say he mightve just accidently did it after admitting to do it on purpose on air...words can't describe how ridiculous that was.

I know he's on the Cowboys, and because of that most here are a little more supportive of him. But lets face it, TO is what he is. Lets not play the corporate line and ignore all the negative elements he brings to the table. He is what he is.
Dude, how on earth did you come away with that impression from my post? I will never defend TO for doing some of the stupid sh** he does. He is what he is, and that is that. It was a classless thing to do, a childish and immature act. That's all. I don't really like the guy. I think he needed an older brother/father figure when he was young to teach him a sense of humility and accountablility, but those are small, paltry things compared to serious criminals and thugbeats the likes of which are roaming all over NFL squads.

The problem that I have is the fact that he was fined twice as much as the last offender who was caught on camera and thrown out of a game that he disrupted with his actions, and that everyone is talking like he robbed a little old lady and then rubbed it in people's faces.

However, you are right about one thing: I wouldn't be saying this if I wasn't a Cowboy fan. That is the truth. You know why? Because I wouldn't know the particulars. I woudln't see the truth behind the potrait that has been painted by the national media. Before he came, all I saw was the snippits of a press conference here and there, or a quote on SC. Now I see all the things that the national media doesn't want people to see, and I have decided that he is not what he is made out to be. If you would look into it, you would find the same thing out.
Ok, I completely understand that point. You shouldve said it the first time.

Theres no doubt in my mind that TO is unfairly criticized on many occasions, but hes not exactly a role model either, so both your defense of him and people's hatred of him are both justified in my opinion.

And for the record, I think Sean Taylor's spitting incident received just as much media scrutinity as TO's did, so I don't think TO was being treated unfairly here. In fact, if I remember correctly, ST got more attention. (couldve been because it was a playoff game, but regardless, he got more). I think TO should stop crying about the unfair treatment and try to stop purposely putting extra attention on himself. As a Dallas fan, Im sure youre sick of his attention wanting antics that he's pulled this season, from the Lance Armstrong jumpsuit, to the sleeping in meetings and laughing it off like BP's words mean nothing to him, to spitting, to TD celebrations etc.

But anyway, it doesn't really matter, he is what he is. I have a feeling though that this offseason, when the spotlight isn't on TO anymore, he'll reveal his "snitch" and open a can of worms again. He'll be happy about the attention he's getting, but who knows what it will do to the team. Thats something to look out for.

In regards to the PB, I think the PB has become an absolute joke quite honestly.

Terrance Newman not getting in is an absolute crime. Antonio Pierce getting snubbed is a crime too. I personally feel that Darren Sharper should of made it over Roy Williams and Vick over Romo as well. I just don't like the process, its more of a who's who in the NFL than an All star game based on performance.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Wow, thats a great chart on BP, thanks bro, I like that.

I think if I were a GM, id dedicate the day 1 picks on offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers, and safties, TE and qb.

I wouldn't spend a day 1 pick on RB, WR, FB, CB, loosely speaking of course, theres always exceptions.

I think those positions are overrated, and can be had in later rounds. RB has so much talent, theres always a RB that can fill the void in later rounds if you have a great line in front of him. WR is the most overrated position in football...pass protection is more important that WRs, and CB are too dependent on front 7 pressure to justify a day 1 pick to me, unless its a sleeper prospect.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyisgod
What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.
If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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The problem that I have is the fact that he was fined twice as much as the last offender who was caught on camera and thrown out of a game that he disrupted with his actions, and that everyone is talking like he robbed a little old lady and then rubbed it in people's faces.
As far as the fine goes. Different commisioner. Goddell has came accross like he is going to be more of a disciplinarian similar to that of David Stern. Also did the refs see it happen on the field. The fact that he got away with on the field and wasn't thrown out of the game could be another reason was the fine was more than Taylor's.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Wow, thats a great chart on BP, thanks bro, I like that.

I think if I were a GM, id dedicate the day 1 picks on offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers, and safties, TE and qb.

I wouldn't spend a day 1 pick on RB, WR, FB, CB, loosely speaking of course, theres always exceptions.

I think those positions are overrated, and can be had in later rounds. RB has so much talent, theres always a RB that can fill the void in later rounds if you have a great line in front of him. WR is the most overrated position in football...pass protection is more important that WRs, and CB are too dependent on front 7 pressure to justify a day 1 pick to me, unless its a sleeper prospect.
Thats what no sleep and crazy draft thoughts will do to me. If it was a code I would crack it. =O

Personally IDK exactly how I would draft. But I agree with some of what you said. Sometimes I want to go talent level sometimes I want to go readiness. For example

Personally I felt the vikes made the wrong decision by taking Troy over Mike. Mike gave them a big target and a redzone threat...something they didn't have. Now i'm sure they didn't know that Dante would be gone the next year but regaurdless they had to replace the redzone presence that Randy had. For as many deep routes as Randy Moss had...he also had great out routes and quick slants to get first downs. His jump balls inside the 5 were really something that went under the radar. Kelly Campbell was enough of a deep threat to keep defenses honest. But there was a breakdown by the front office. They brought in Williamson...a guy who had great success running the go route...and double move. But he didn't have the other asspects of the game that Randy did. So I believe this falls into the scouting catagory.

My point is....almost anyone who makes it to the NFL has the talent to be a good player. Coaching/Motivation is what it takes. So you can take a guy like Levi Brown...who is argueably the top mauler in this draft, or you can take a guy like Tony Ugoh later in the draft. If you look at the difference there really isn't much. But may be able to start...but both could use a season of strength training and playbook learning...and refining their technique. This is where I believe Parcells is a genious. The OT's that come out in drafts really aren't that different. So if you have a guy with all the intagibles sitting there on the second day...ala McQuiston you have just as much of a chance of him turning out as you do with a guy like Andrew Whitworth. I mean really...Whitworth might have been more NFL ready then McQuiston but is he really NFL ready? Being more NFL ready and NFL ready are two completely different things. However if both sat on the bench for one year....with the same training and coaching and drive...I think you would agree that McQuiston would hold the greater value since you aren't as highly invested.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Yeah BP is a great drafter.

Thats what makes him so great of a coach. You couple great drafting with great motivational techniques, getting the most out of your players, youre gonna have a good team.

Forget the Xs and Os, forget the the philosophy. What makes BP in my opinion the best is his ability to get the most out of what he has, moreso than any other HC in the league. Holmgren gets honorable mention in this regards, he's incredible too. Id say Bellichick is 3rd on the list, but its hard to say when you have Brady and an easy conference ever year.
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Old 12-20-2006, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Wow, Thule. Excellent read. Thanks for bringing the knowledge. You better get some sleep now :)
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Old 12-20-2006, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyisgod
What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.
If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
How do you know Parcells lives in a motel, was this reported anywhere? I find this extremely hard to believe, if I had to guess I'd think he lives in a really expensive nice apartment, assuming he doesn't have a house here.
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