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Old 12-25-2006, 08:32 PM    (permalink
LSUALUM99
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You see Cowboysforever, this is why your comments are ridiculous.

First, you don't get a 'benefit' of Rogers' salary cap hit if you trade for him. Furthermore, the salary cap hit is a reason why the OTHER team wouldn't make the trade.

Second, your trade scenarios are stupid because they involve a win/lose trade scenario. In your scenarios the Cowboys win by getting a dominant DT and the Lions lose by getting a Safety. Regardless of whether the safety is good or bad (that's a matter of opinion) DT is a more impactful position than safety (that's a widely regarded truth). Trades are not win / lose, that's where the 'Madden' talk comes into play. Some trades work out that way, but usually because of circumstances that come to light AFTER the trade is done, not before.

Third, you don't seem to realize that in the NFL, no team is unflawed. The Cowboys will end up 10-6 this year. That's exactly where I've said they'd be and on the high end of almost all predicitons. You're taking a team that's performed at or better than most expectations and expecting to blow up the roster by getting rid of TO, Roy Williams, Bradie James, Marco Rivera, etc. That's not realistic nor even a good idea. You don't get rid of 20-25% of your starting lineup on a PLAYOFF team just for the sake of doing it.

Fourth, the NFL is about Talent Acquisition, Salary Cap Management, AND Football. You cannot do 2 of them well and disregard the third in the process. You have to balance all of the facets well. So far, the Cowboys have done an excellent job of balancing all three.

Lastly, your notion that Bill Parcells has been a poor talent evaluator shows just how BAD your knowledge base is. Bill Parcells is the only coach in NFL history to lead 4 seperate teams to the playoffs. Bill Parcells is a phenomenal talent evaluator. Not only is he good at bringing in talent, he's also excells at developing the talent he has. Other than TO, every player on the Cowboys that is a major contributor is either a) a former parcells player that he brought in or b) a player BP has developed while here. All this for a Playoff team that before his arrival had 15 wins in 3 seasons preceding his hiring.

The fact that we use logic and real world knowledge, not some video game theory to make our decisions, does not make us fanboys. That fact makes us informed and you misguided.
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Hey everybody. I was expecting a much better performance today and we came out flat on both sides of the ball.

Trivia: Bill Parcells' first name isn't really Bill.

It's Duane.
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Would anybody think it was a bad idea if we got Randy Moss?
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Would anybody think it was a bad idea if we got Randy Moss?
Very bad Idea. Not a fan of Moss at all.
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Gribble
Would anybody think it was a bad idea if we got Randy Moss?
Very bad Idea. Not a fan of Moss at all.
Well, Parcells has a knack for getting the most out of players and Randy Moss always goes for broke against the Cowboys for not picking him in the 1st round.

It wouldn't be a stretch in my opinion. If T.O. can stop saying stupid stuff and get his hand fixed, then I would be happier, but...
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Moss's recent comments about not giving 100% or quitting on his team really made me lose respect for him. Even TO, with all his headaches plays hard when he is out there, that is why so many people put up with him. BP will never even consider acquiring a player with the mentality Moss has.
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paul
Moss's recent comments about not giving 100% or quitting on his team really made me lose respect for him. Even TO, with all his headaches plays hard when he is out there, that is why so many people put up with him. BP will never even consider acquiring a player with the mentality Moss has.
I disagree. He turned down the Bucs job (the year they won the Super Bowl) in 2002 and took the Cowboys job the next year. Parcells' attachment to rebuilding and reclamation projects makes me think that this might be a challenge he would take.

Besides... Who wouldn't be upset playing for ART SHELL? (THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF PARCELLS!)
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Old 12-25-2006, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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What good would Randy Moss do, the Cowboys already have a hard time utilizing Terrell Owens to the best of his abilities. No running game = no offense for this Cowboys team. Can't win it on the pass alone, this team can't do that. When teams take the Cowboys out of their running game, it's essentially game over for Dallas.
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Old 12-25-2006, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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2 pages and not one mention of how terrible our oline played :shock:

This was easily the worst showing of the year. Jim Johnson did do some tricky things...but bottom line is....Rivera is old and getting abused. Gurode almost seems to be trying to make up for his mistakes. Flozell is on a downward spiral...Koiser is what he is...Columbo and Gurode are holding our sorry ass line together and its pathetic. You can't win ballgames running the ball the way we do.

This is directly effecting our running game. Does anyone else realize that since we have made the change to Romo that JJ hasn't had a rushing average above 4ypc other then the saints game. Another thing that just gets me going is how we can't run against teams that are terrible against the run. We ran like trash against Indy...trash against the eagles...THOSE ARE THE TWO WORST rushing defenses in the league. We can't even get a yard on the goalline or on 4th in one by running the ball...we have to hope for a breakdown or a slip to score...pathetic on the ol's shoulder. Even with this terrible line we have the 4th best overall rushing attack in the NFC. We are 4th in about every running catagory.

How many times have we watched a game and get to see Romo bouncing around comfy in the pocket. This is something that seemingly every team we play gets to do more often then not. This has to be a problem with our OL...no reason for this.

For the first time this season I actually not sure if I see TO here. I would really love to see the cap numbers vs. keeping him and cutting him. He has done great things for us this year...but he doesn't seem to work on things he's doing wrong. I'm not talking about catching the football after watching pregame today I think its safe to say its his injuries that are the big deal with catching. But with his route running. I mean sure it makes it hard to beat the jam with an injuried hand....but you can't get redirected on every route. Madden was dead on when talking about TO today...and it really helped open my eyes. He does get to close to the sidelines...he does need more snaps from the slot...he is not as demanding off the line as he once was...and if he keeps on this way...teams will jam him for the rest of the year. I would like to see him come and and be more physical off the line our next 2 games.

If he fails to do this...I think it will raise something interesting. First of all will teams actually trade for TO...second or all will the persume we are cutting him and just wait for the time. I could definately see us cutting him barring Cap hits and such...but is he actual trade bait? This is what I'd be curious to see.

Our DE's were playing great today. Spears is faster then garcia...you got to love that...he was constantly around Garcia...Canty is doing his job...and got more pressure then usual. Furgy turned in another great game...making tackles from the middle and also forcing two blockers on himself all day. We won't be addressing DE this draft...Hatcher plays like a stud at DE when he plays...and Coleman is definately a solid cheap vet who deserves to be on this team next year.

The ellis loss is really starting to show right now. Carp still appears to be lost when playing...once again shedding his blocks just a half a second too late. His development was truely lengthen by the movement to the middle earlier this year and its clear that it has lead to his slow development on the outside. Singleton is playing as solid as expected but you can truely see the talent decrease when he is on the field. Akin and Bradie are playing decent...but would really like to see them filling the holes deeper into the backfield...they seem to run laterally just a bit to long...if the went n/s quicker might cause a bit more confusion to opposing rb's on which lane to choose.

It's so self-evident that Roy is playing deep in cover 2 is hurting this team. He comes flying from his position but just seems to be a bit late on dropping the opponite in the backfield. Instead he appears to be playing containment more with the lack of a SOLB forcing the issue. We look like we have faith in Watkins now that he has seen the majority of the playing time in two games. Just need to prove his worth and get roy up in that robber role...he is truely playing to his weakness as a cover 2 safety. We are not the Bills on defense....he needs to be up.

I learned alot about our draft from this game. OL only has 2 true positions of need to be addressed with youth. I'll be curious to see if we hear anything about McQwistens development in the offseason...because I think its clear Flo will be replaced sooner than later. His contract is up next year or the year after if I'm not mistaken...I'd be curious to see if he has any trade value. I don't exactly seem him being cut this offseason...but its more due to the lack of OT depth then it is because of his cap number and such. He has a hefty contract...but could be spread over multiple years since his deal is nearly done.

I think parcells would like to see a nice developmental NT to give furgy a breather from time to time...Ratliff just doesn't have the beef..and we truely can use him playing at the way he is now in the nickle.

I think we address defense with 2 of the 3 first day picks. I still think we value a raw CB prospect with return skills. I still think we go OG on the first day. I could see us go NT or ILB/OLB depending on where we see Carp in our future. Fowler can easily be replaced by a younger guy...by this time next year we will have more then enough veteran leadership in our LB corp. So bringing in youth to the inside wouldn't be a bad idea. We need someone to pair with Burnett in the nickel...Carp seemed to play it well in training camp..but IDK if that is future plans or not.

I'm not sold on us going LB in the first round...esspecially if our coaching staff leaves Carp outside...then I could see ILB as a later need...but if thats the case I could definately see a speed/gamebreaker type of guy. Like I've said before Craig Davis would make alot of sense in big D. Not only this but my man Ginn would be the ideal pick.

The more and more I watch our running game...the more and more I see it as a possibility of JJ not being here next year. He hasn't played bad...but like i've said multiple times...his rookie contract comes up in the next two years...and he will be looking for an extension...if we have interest I could definately see us landing a mid/late 2nd rounder. He just seems to be to programmed at this point...and as much blame as i put on the ol he just doesn't seem to read cutback lanes very well. With 1200 yards or so this season...he should be shopable...he did answer his injury concerns...If a guy like bush falls it would really make alot of sense imo.

As far as the Randy Moss thoughts...Personally I'd love him in Big D he will be 30 in febuary...which is terribly old. He has more talent then any reciever in the league. He would be an upgrade over TO and would be a better reciever to fit our offense. With the way that Romo plays...he would also compliment him better. His go deep and outjump the DB would be better then owens run by the DB and hit him in stride i think. I definately think we would lose some physicality on offense...and some run blocking...but when your winning players sacrifice a bit more. He did block in MN when they were winning. He did go over the middle...he did run quick slants...if you make a game compeitive a player is more apt to lay it all on the line. Owens is four years older than Moss and not as naturally gifted. I don't know exactly what Oak would be interested from dallas...probabally a guy like Burnett and a guy like Crayton. I love Crayton as much as the next guy...but his contract come up shortly and we have to start thinking about the youth we do have at the position. I think he has some value at this point also. I would more then welcome Moss in Big D.
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Old 12-25-2006, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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LSU, you crack me up cuz you try to sound reasonable but you come of like a politician saying 'I support motherhood' and all these other meaningless football platitudes.

1. If we trade Roy to Detroit and take a salary cap hit but get Rogers then Detroit takes the same hit. It is a near algebraic wash.

2. My proposal of Roy and Burnett is valuable for both teams, including Detroit.

3. Bill Parcells has historically shied away from superior athletes in favor of his type of guyz (smart and hardworking). Even in the draft. This is his history. Period.

4 BP is a great developer of players. We sort of agree.

5 BP needs a DC with some brains. Get the feeling Zimmer is lost.

6 BP, you and the rest of the ladies are over valuing our talent and we have a MAJOR problem on this team. We are slow and as a result no play makers.

Just look at our drafts and find me top end play makers or speed he has gone for? We are slow and this is a result of Bill unfortunately disparaging people who use 40 times to do evals and looking down on the athlete piece of the puzzle.

He frequently mocks Scouts by saying 'If they did not have a stop watch they would not know how to order them (on the draft board).' This is fact and a major BP flaw.

He over rates his ability to teach and somethings can't be taught. Sometimes you just gotta find em bigger and faster.

So, the team has a slow problem that BP has created by eschewing top tier athletes in favor of the like of Carpenter and Fasano ....

Botox is too stupid to solve this while placating BP and instead goes for TO type signings cuz Duane can't ***** to much about it.

Anyway, other issue --- no surprise if Moss ends up here. Another TO type cancer that BP will accept and make Botox feel good about himself as imbecile GM.
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Old 12-25-2006, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Thule, I will say the following to placate you and the other 'don't worry be happy guyz'

Keep TO and the RB mess. Keep Roy and Watkins and only one slow ILB but I beg .....

Get us two quality athletic, powerful guards, get us a real NT to push the pocket and rotate with Fergie, get Carpenter at ILB and get us a real WOLB so we can move Ware to SOLB where he belongs.

Screw the cap hit. Already did it for a kicker.
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Old 12-26-2006, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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It might just be me but with Roy playing deep in Cover 2 and still getting beat deep. Why don't we just put him near the line and see what Watkins has to offer as a center fielder? I mean I'm sure he'll do just as good as Roy is playing Cover 2. As good as Newman is it seems Bill doesn't trust him like he should.

To me it looks like he helps Newman and Henry the same. Put newman on an island and prove to us he should of went to the probowl last year. Sure he might get beat deep once in a while, but maybe that would make him play the ball more to get more INTS. Which he needs to do. I like the fact that he plays the man but I mean there are times where he could take the INT to the house. But is scared to jump the route when he clearly could have.

We need to pick O-line all 3 picks first day. We suck that bad. Trade Rivera for a 7th if anyone even wants him for that, maybe he'd be a good tutor though.
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Old 12-26-2006, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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It might just be me but with Roy playing deep in Cover 2 and still getting beat deep. Why don't we just put him near the line and see what Watkins has to offer as a center fielder? I mean I'm sure he'll do just as good as Roy is playing Cover 2. As good as Newman is it seems Bill doesn't trust him like he should.

To me it looks like he helps Newman and Henry the same. Put newman on an island and prove to us he should of went to the probowl last year. Sure he might get beat deep once in a while, but maybe that would make him play the ball more to get more INTS. Which he needs to do. I like the fact that he plays the man but I mean there are times where he could take the INT to the house. But is scared to jump the route when he clearly could have.

We need to pick O-line all 3 picks first day. We suck that bad. Trade Rivera for a 7th if anyone even wants him for that, maybe he'd be a good tutor though.
I don't know about all 3 picks, but we def need to address it. Gurode and Kosier are stout and there position, and Colombo has been more then serviceable. Flozell has been... meh good here horrible there kind of season. Rivera has been DREADFUL. but this is nothing new, we all been saying this since the first Giants game.
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Old 12-26-2006, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number-94
It might just be me but with Roy playing deep in Cover 2 and still getting beat deep. Why don't we just put him near the line and see what Watkins has to offer as a center fielder? I mean I'm sure he'll do just as good as Roy is playing Cover 2. As good as Newman is it seems Bill doesn't trust him like he should.

To me it looks like he helps Newman and Henry the same. Put newman on an island and prove to us he should of went to the probowl last year. Sure he might get beat deep once in a while, but maybe that would make him play the ball more to get more INTS. Which he needs to do. I like the fact that he plays the man but I mean there are times where he could take the INT to the house. But is scared to jump the route when he clearly could have.

We need to pick O-line all 3 picks first day. We suck that bad. Trade Rivera for a 7th if anyone even wants him for that, maybe he'd be a good tutor though.
I don't know about all 3 picks, but we def need to address it. Gurode and Kosier are stout and there position, and Colombo has been more then serviceable. Flozell has been... meh good here horrible there kind of season. Rivera has been DREADFUL. but this is nothing new, we all been saying this since the first Giants game.
I think the mentality that we need at O-Line isn't there. With Flozell as the leader the whole unit takes on his "soft" approach. Right now the loss of Larry Allen is very important from a morale standpoint in that the other players always knew that he could manhandle the strongest DTs in the league. Now, 3 of out 5 of our lineman are average most of the time.

Other questions:

1. Why didn't we pick Steven Jackson?
2. Why did Tyson Thompson have to get hurt?
3. Do we want to win the division and play NYG at home or not and play SEA on the road?
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:02 AM    (permalink
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Thule, I will say the following to placate you and the other 'don't worry be happy guyz'

Keep TO and the RB mess. Keep Roy and Watkins and only one slow ILB but I beg .....

Get us two quality athletic, powerful guards, get us a real NT to push the pocket and rotate with Fergie, get Carpenter at ILB and get us a real WOLB so we can move Ware to SOLB where he belongs.

Screw the cap hit. Already did it for a kicker.
I really don't think we'll have the same RB situation we did last year. That would really be surprising me. I guess it really comes down to the interest.

TO is fine if we don't go after Moss...my only worry is if we lose TO...do we expert Hurd to be the guy...noone in FA screams #1 wr...and however good Hurd has been...him as a #1 guy isn't gonna scare many people.

I constantly question where the best spot for Ware to play. But it doesn't matter because we don't have anyone to play WOLB. The problem with this is...noone in this draft really screams 3-4 pass rusher. Noone...the closest we can come to is a journey man. The only guy I can really think of is Lamar Woodley and he would be even worse in coverage then Singleton. My darkhorse to the OLB position if Carp stays inside is Posluszny. This is probabally the pick you would hate the most. But bottomline is this guy is one of the highest regaurded LB's ever out of penn state...and he could play outside or inside. Actually reminds me of a more polished..more instinctive Carpenter. Reports have it that he may fall in the draft...and I don't know if I would put it past parcells to pick up another big 10 LB. Esspecially one as highly decorated as Paul. But I'm not even gonna start speculating on which players I think will fall..because it might just get to be too much.

I also don't know who you see as a dominate DT to colapse the pocket in this draft. Tank is the most true DT in the draft...and hes not known for his ability to get into the backfield...although I think he has done a nice job this year. Okoye is quite the project...and while he may have the size it will take awhile to get him ready to be the player we expect him to be. Pitcock is high on some peoples board and not as high on others. Bottom line is I have a hard time seeing him holding up the middle of a 3-4 in the future...so I don't even consider him.
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:12 AM    (permalink
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To add to the OLB in this draft.
The more I think about Woodley as an OLB the more I like the idea. I want to see him in some coverage activity in the offseason. If he shows smooth hips I will be all over him.

Another guy that me and D esspecially looked at last year was Quentin Moses. Now this year he has alot of doubters...but he was a dark horse last year...and could very well be the same this year.

Some people are high on Spencer...but to tell you the truth of the couple of Purdue games I truely watched and evalutated this year...he didn't seem to have that game changing ability....so I look at him as a 2nd/3rd round prospect.

D, I was wondering if you could fill us all in on Ikaika Alama-Francis. I'm sure you've seen alot of him. Kiper obviously opened my eyes to him...but could you see him as our Jason Hatcher pick this year? Seems to have alot of what Parcells likes. As much as I hate the thought of drafting a DE...he looks like he could be a late round gem with some work.

As far as DTs go again...I was doing some more reading and Ola Dagunduro, outta Nebraska seems to be right up parcells alley. I wouldn't be surprised to see us take a shot on him on the 2nd day.
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:50 AM    (permalink
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i've defended T.O. week in and week out but this week I've have it. Getting involved earlier in the game and all that is a bunch of crap. We were still in the game, only down 16-7 when he dropped the first pass. He said it was right on him when he looked up but if you watch the replay he took atleast 3 and a half steps with his eyes on the ball before it got there. He should be boo'd and he better step up for the playoffs.

Whats up with Roy? im not talking about the coverage either. On all the rush plays, he would run up and just throw a shoulder into the tight end and get taken out of the play. He hardly made any tackles and i havnt seen a bone jarring hit all season?

It seems like our stars have confidence issues right now and we really cant afford that. I think all of the talk on ESPN magnifying T.O.'s drops earlier on in the season and the talk of Roy being overratted has really gotten to both of them. Neither one seems to be the player they were in years past.
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:55 AM    (permalink
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i've defended T.O. week in and week out but this week I've have it. Getting involved earlier in the game and all that is a bunch of crap. We were still in the game, only down 16-7 when he dropped the first pass. He said it was right on him when he looked up but if you watch the replay he took atleast 3 and a half steps with his eyes on the ball before it got there. He should be boo'd and he better step up for the playoffs.

Whats up with Roy? im not talking about the coverage either. On all the rush plays, he would run up and just throw a shoulder into the tight end and get taken out of the play. He hardly made any tackles and i havnt seen a bone jarring hit all season?

It seems like our stars have confidence issues right now and we really cant afford that. I think all of the talk on ESPN magnifying T.O.'s drops earlier on in the season and the talk of Roy being overratted has really gotten to both of them. Neither one seems to be the player they were in years past.
I meantioned all this in my rant earlier...but one thing to mention about Roy....I believe he is playing containment with the lack of SOLB...just a thought..i'm not coach...but that seems to be why he is just blowing up the far blocker.
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Old 12-26-2006, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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I can't believe he droppeed that pass. Unbelievable throw by Romo.
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Old 12-26-2006, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Thule, I will say the following to placate you and the other 'don't worry be happy guyz'

Keep TO and the RB mess. Keep Roy and Watkins and only one slow ILB but I beg .....

Get us two quality athletic, powerful guards, get us a real NT to push the pocket and rotate with Fergie, get Carpenter at ILB and get us a real WOLB so we can move Ware to SOLB where he belongs.

Screw the cap hit. Already did it for a kicker.
You act as if you were more knowledgeable then BP or anybody else on that staff. We all know the weaknesses on the team, we know Rivera is terrible , the TO drops are not good and Roy playing in center field is just a bad idea, but you seem to overreact and come up with some of the most ridiculous "cures". That is why you have very little respect and credibility around here. We cannot just cut and trade everybody at a whim, especially players like Roy and Bradie. You may think there "Slow", but they are the heart of this D, they are the leaders when they go out there. That's what you seem to forget or even consider. You just want "Fast" players and "athletes", you can take the best athletes if you want, but I want the best Football players.

Face it cowboysforever, you pretty much put yourself into a position where nobody will ever take your ideas and theories seriously just for the mere fact you never take into account the consequences it may bring to the cap, the chemistry and really you arguments never have any kind of rationality. So please, for your own sake, shut up.
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Old 12-26-2006, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Thule, I will say the following to placate you and the other 'don't worry be happy guyz'

Keep TO and the RB mess. Keep Roy and Watkins and only one slow ILB but I beg .....

Get us two quality athletic, powerful guards, get us a real NT to push the pocket and rotate with Fergie, get Carpenter at ILB and get us a real WOLB so we can move Ware to SOLB where he belongs.

Screw the cap hit. Already did it for a kicker.
Are we 3-12 or something? Did I miss the part where we made the playoffs with TONS of youth on our defense? Drastic moves like you're calling for aren't necessary when we're building from within.

I don't know if we're overachieving, but next year looks really good, especially if Carpenter can master the system and Watkins or another safety can step up.
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Old 12-26-2006, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Paul, I really only have three comments for you;

1. The Shaun Rogers for Burnett and Williams proposal is a good one that fits both teams all around. Money and team needs.

2. Your constant argument that Bradie and Roy can't be changed because they are the 'heart' of the D is lacking any XOXO insight. It is repition of what you are fed by the media.

3 This team has a speed deficit no matter how you slice it and a lack of playermakers in the front seven -- you can not achieve BP's desire for a dominant D without speedy playmakers.

As I said last in the NFL is plays behind the Line of Scrimage.

Facts are facts. If you accept them maybe it becomes easier to fix them.

I may not be a great XOXO guy but you don't get to where I am without keen powers of observation and the ballz to fix them.

Good luck kid.
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Old 12-26-2006, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Thule, I will say the following to placate you and the other 'don't worry be happy guyz'

Keep TO and the RB mess. Keep Roy and Watkins and only one slow ILB but I beg .....

Get us two quality athletic, powerful guards, get us a real NT to push the pocket and rotate with Fergie, get Carpenter at ILB and get us a real WOLB so we can move Ware to SOLB where he belongs.

Screw the cap hit. Already did it for a kicker.
Are we 3-12 or something? Did I miss the part where we made the playoffs with TONS of youth on our defense? Drastic moves like you're calling for aren't necessary when we're building from within.

I don't know if we're overachieving, but next year looks really good, especially if Carpenter can master the system and Watkins or another safety can step up.
Well Watkins and Carpenter help the speed thing.

Whether or not that is enough is open to debate.

If so however, Bradie or Roy needs to go, lose weight or something.

Tired of RB and TE turn into Pro Bowl pass catchers with these two laboring to get to the ball.
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Old 12-26-2006, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Does anybody agree with me that we shouldn't sit any starters against Detroit? I think momentum is more important here than getting rest for the playoffs.
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Old 12-26-2006, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Cowboysforever, youre really turning the cowboys team discussion into crap right now. You make some valid points, but then you also say some things that makes me question how much you really know about the game. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly.
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