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Old 12-13-2010, 11:14 AM    (permalink
Macarthur
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I know the corners have looked suspect, but I truly believe that the horrible safety play affects how we view them. I guarantee if we could get a couple of good to very good safeties, our secondary would look much better.

I'm much more worried about our DL. I think I've come around on the idea that an impact DL would be the ticket for our first rounder.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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The whole secondary needs work. Jenkins has been terrible this year. I'd still hold out hope on him bc last year he was so good, but his attitude is not desirable.

I still believe that switching to a 4-3 defense wouldn't be a terrible idea for this team.
Jenkins leads the league in yards given up (well, I assume he still does because he led going into last night, and last night wasn't a banner night for him). The regression with him came out of nowhere. I thought he was going to make a leap into the top-8 or so.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Atleast spencer looked like a boss yesterday.

As for our front 7 being so good... they couldnt stop lesean mccoy in obvious running downs on the last drive.. thats not the secondaries fault.

While Mike Jenkins is getting a bad rap.. He is right there ever ******* time, he is just unlucky this year. He tipped one of reggie wayne's TD's last week, and was legit 2 inches from tipping deseans TD. Let's not forget he won us the game last week.

Sure he needs to improve, but everyone has a slump year. There has to still be hope with his talent.

As for D-Line in the first, i'm all for it. Dareus or Fairley would be so boss.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
I like Ware AND I like Jay R. Everyone else I never really thought much about. If you switch to a 4-3 then you're negating what Ware brings to the table. All the productive stuff he does, like getting sacks, and being feared goes out the window.

I am 1,000,000 X more scared of Ware in a 34 then I would be in a 43 scheme.
I don't think the switch effects Ware at all. Half the time Ware plays in a 3 point stance anyway, and he's proven he's stout vs the run both standing up and with his hand on the dirt.

And just bc you play in a 43 doesn't mean you can't move guys around. Look at what we do, or how Tennessee uses various line formations and stunts to create confusion and pressure.

The 43 front is just as confusing as a 34 if you have a good DC who knows how to attack.

Ware actually explodes quicker out of a 3 point stance than he does standing up. Ware would be just fine a 4-3.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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I don't think the switch effects Ware at all. Half the time Ware plays in a 3 point stance anyway, and he's proven he's stout vs the run both standing up and with his hand on the dirt.

And just bc you play in a 43 doesn't mean you can't move guys around. Look at what we do, or how Tennessee uses various line formations and stunts to create confusion and pressure.

The 43 front is just as confusing as a 34 if you have a good DC who knows how to attack.

Ware actually explodes quicker out of a 3 point stance than he does standing up. Ware would be just fine a 4-3.
mehhhhhhhh. Ware has the fastest first step in the league while standing. The guy has been flagged even when he's still onsides, he's that quick.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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I don't think the switch effects Ware at all. Half the time Ware plays in a 3 point stance anyway, and he's proven he's stout vs the run both standing up and with his hand on the dirt.

And just bc you play in a 43 doesn't mean you can't move guys around. Look at what we do, or how Tennessee uses various line formations and stunts to create confusion and pressure.

The 43 front is just as confusing as a 34 if you have a good DC who knows how to attack.

Ware actually explodes quicker out of a 3 point stance than he does standing up. Ware would be just fine a 4-3.

Of course it does. It's a whole sale schematic change. Now he can't get sacks and rush the passer like he would. This is the same type of discussion some idiot giants fans had about switching to a 34 and having Strahan play OLB or Osi play DE in a 34.

It's a whole schematic change, and now guys like a Merriman or Ware are asked to do different things. Just to look on NFL.com and search by LB and see sacks and guys who cause Chaos. ALL from a 34, OLB.

Ware, Mathews, Harrison, Hali.. What system do they all have in common? You will NEVER see Ware as productive as he is in a 43 system, especially with their safties!

It would be a complete mess! I do agree you can have many fronts with a 43, but it would be assinine if Ware moved to a 43.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Of course it does. It's a whole sale schematic change. Now he can't get sacks and rush the passer like he would. This is the same type of discussion some idiot giants fans had about switching to a 34 and having Strahan play OLB or Osi play DE in a 34.

It's a whole schematic change, and now guys like a Merriman or Ware are asked to do different things. Just to look on NFL.com and search by LB and see sacks and guys who cause Chaos. ALL from a 34, OLB.

Ware, Mathews, Harrison, Hali.. What system do they all have in common? You will NEVER see Ware as productive as he is in a 43 system, especially with their safties!

It would be a complete mess! I do agree you can have many fronts with a 43, but it would be assinine if Ware moved to a 43.
See, I disagree with that, bc Ware is capable of making the switch. Guys like Strahan have no business in a 3-4 as an OLB bc he's not built to be that. Nor is Osi built to play DE in a 3-4, guys who say that nonsense are just ********. Ignore them.

But Ware is a freak, he can easily play DE in a 4-3. He's about 275lbs, he's not too small to play End. He won't get pushed around like smaller 34 OLBs like Harrison and Clay. He's a big dude. And he has been playing with his hand in the dirt in nickel situations anyway. He's not completely foreign to the idea.

And this is DeMarcus Ware. He's not getting TEs and backs blocking him. He gets the OT every time. So it's not going to be an overwhelming change for him.

I think the formation change helps Ratliff too. Ratliff is a penetrator, and I think his most natural position is UT in a 43 front. Even Marcus Spears benefits from this change, bc he's a natural 43 NT. I really don't think the change is that crazy.

If Ware was 6 2" 245 lbs, then yeah, he can't play a 43 as well as a 34. But the guy is 6 4" 275 lbs. He's just as big as Justin Tuck with much more flexibility. He can easily make the switch.

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mehhhhhhhh. Ware has the fastest first step in the league while standing. The guy has been flagged even when he's still onsides, he's that quick.
His first step is incredible. But he's actually been flagged for being onsides more when he explodes out of the 3 point stance.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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See, I disagree with that, bc Ware is capable of making the switch. Guys like Strahan have no business in a 3-4 as an OLB bc he's not built to be that. Nor is Osi built to play DE in a 3-4, guys who say that nonsense are just ********. Ignore them.

But Ware is a freak, he can easily play DE in a 4-3. He's about 275lbs, he's not too small to play End. He won't get pushed around like smaller 34 OLBs like Harrison and Clay. He's a big dude. And he has been playing with his hand in the dirt in nickel situations anyway. He's not completely foreign to the idea.

And this is DeMarcus Ware. He's not getting TEs and backs blocking him. He gets the OT every time. So it's not going to be an overwhelming change for him.

I think the formation change helps Ratliff too. Ratliff is a penetrator, and I think his most natural position is UT in a 43 front. Even Marcus Spears benefits from this change, bc he's a natural 43 NT. I really don't think the change is that crazy.

If Ware was 6 2" 245 lbs, then yeah, he can't play a 43 as well as a 34. But the guy is 6 4" 275 lbs. He's just as big as Justin Tuck with much more flexibility. He can easily make the switch.



His first step is incredible. But he's actually been flagged for being onsides more when he explodes out of the 3 point stance.


Wait you're taking about DE not LB right? I am talking about if he played SAM in a 43 system. I am not sure about DE. I think it would run him down. He would have to deal with more cut blocks, and double teams without getting a head start. I think he would be avg. as a DE. I don't see him again having sick amount of success. But I do see him faring better than if he was switched to SAM.

I'd have to see him as a DE to know. I'd be interested in that. Being in the trenches full time would take it's course on him. Just look at Tuck and Osi and how many injuries they get being in the trenches. I can see him getting hurt more thus making it hard to still be productive. That's something I'd be interested in seeing though.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Wait you're taking about DE not LB right? I am talking about if he played SAM in a 43 system. I am not sure about DE. I think it would run him down. He would have to deal with more cut blocks, and double teams without getting a head start. I think he would be avg. as a DE. I don't see him again having sick amount of success. But I do see him faring better than if he was switched to SAM.

I'd have to see him as a DE to know. I'd be interested in that. Being in the trenches full time would take it's course on him. Just look at Tuck and Osi and how many injuries they get being in the trenches. I can see him getting hurt more thus making it hard to still be productive. That's something I'd be interested in seeing though.
Yeah, play him at DE. It would be moronic to play Ware at SAM in a 43.

I think he can handle the punishment. Like I said, if he was 245 lbs, then it would beat him up. But the dude is a monster, he's bigger than a lot of 43 DEs that play DE full time. I have full confidence that he can make the switch and still succeed.

The fear of change and what it would lead to is the only reason I see why switching to the 4-3 would be so worrisome. When I evaluate their front 7, I see a switch to a 4-3 as being beneficial to most of their front 7 players. They'd actually play better in that front imo.

And let's not forget, Wade played a 1 gap 34 that pretty much was a 43 front anyway. Wade's defense was a 4-3 Under masquerading as a 34 defense.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Perfect game yesterday. Competitive and we got the loss. Phew. I thought we were going to win again. I was cringing!
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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I generally don't like that attitude. I don't care if it would cost my team the #1 pick... I'd want to beat Dallas every time out...
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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I generally don't like that attitude. I don't care if it would cost my team the #1 pick... I'd want to beat Dallas every time out...
I wanted to win too, but at the same token with us out I'm rooting for Philly to win the division and for Vick to do well. I hate the Giants, it's hard for me to hate the Eagles with Vick. I wanted to win every game since Garrett has taken over, woulda been interesting if we still had 6 losses.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, play him at DE. It would be moronic to play Ware at SAM in a 43.

I think he can handle the punishment. Like I said, if he was 245 lbs, then it would beat him up. But the dude is a monster, he's bigger than a lot of 43 DEs that play DE full time. I have full confidence that he can make the switch and still succeed.

The fear of change and what it would lead to is the only reason I see why switching to the 4-3 would be so worrisome. When I evaluate their front 7, I see a switch to a 4-3 as being beneficial to most of their front 7 players. They'd actually play better in that front imo.

And let's not forget, Wade played a 1 gap 34 that pretty much was a 43 front anyway. Wade's defense was a 4-3 Under masquerading as a 34 defense.
I can see how a switch to the 4-3 would benefit us. Especially with our reluctance to replace Ratliff at NT. It pisses me off so badly. He's a crappy NT. Pure crap. He's so overrated it ain't even funny anymore. I don't wanna hear anything about how good he is, because it's just not true. Also, addressing DT early in the draft makes a lot more sense for 4-3 teams than 3-4 teams, imo. Spencer would probably make for a much better 4-3 DE than 3-4 OLB and Ware is super versatile, so I wouldn't project any problems for him. The main thing is having the right DC for it. Because I think finding 4-3 LBs is dirty easy compared to finding 3-4 LBs.

At the same time, keeping the 3-4 is something I would like to try to keep if we can find the right DC. Pasq isn't the answer. I would also like to properly address NT and move Ratliff to DE; if there's any resistance, then trade him.

Sounds like the easier thing to do at this point is move to the 4-3. I'm for either. Not strongly sided on either side. Just want the right personnel moves to be made and addressed. Not having a big NT has been the #1 biggest problem with this defense and I hate how people say Ratliff isn't the problem. Sure he is. He was the main reason why we didn't stop McCoy at the end of the game. He doesn't do his job as a 3-4 NT.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I generally don't like that attitude. I don't care if it would cost my team the #1 pick... I'd want to beat Dallas every time out...
People don't like it because it takes the "brain" aka logic, away from the "heart" aka emotion out of the game.

It may not feel good but it damn sure is better for the future improvement of the team.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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I hear what you're saying, but it is a fan board. Figured you'd be more irrational fan-boy like. haha
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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How long have you felt that Ratliff has been a crap NT D?
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
How long have you felt that Ratliff has been a crap NT D?
I'd like to see what other think on this, but when's the last time we had a defense that teams couldn't run on? I just don't like the 1-Gap scheme we currently have. Look at the great 3-4 Defenses and who they have in the middle, Wilfork, Hampton, Ngata/Gregg, Jenkins(when healthy), Rogers. I mean, I can't think of any other 3-4 team that has a 295 pound Nose Tackle, it's like inviting teams to run down our throats. If this is a copy cat league we certainly didn't get the memo that you need a big bodied NT who can take on double teams to run an effective 3-4.

EDIT: I also love Ratliff and the effort he gives, but I think he's best suited as a situational pass rusher. It's so obvious he gets worn down in games, he just isn't big enough to handle the constant double teams. Think about how effective he would be if he was fresh coming in on 3rd downs to get after the passer? We need to find a new starting NT. We could have a rotation at End with Rat, Hatch, and Bowen and have Josh Brent rotate at nose with (enter true NT FA pickup here).
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to see what other think on this, but when's the last time we had a defense that teams couldn't run on? I just don't like the 1-Gap scheme we currently have. Look at the great 3-4 Defenses and who they have in the middle, Wilfork, Hampton, Ngata/Gregg, Jenkins(when healthy), Rogers. I mean, I can't think of any other 3-4 team that has a 295 pound Nose Tackle, it's like inviting teams to run down our throats. If this is a copy cat league we certainly didn't get the memo that you need a big bodied NT who can take on double teams to run an effective 3-4.
That's because of your system. If you switch to a two gap, then you give us Jay R. I would love for him to be our 3T.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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That's because of your system. If you switch to a two gap, then you give us Jay R. I would love for him to be our 3T.
yea i meant i have more of a problem with the system than ratliff.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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How long have you felt that Ratliff has been a crap NT D?
EVERY YEAR since we moved to the 3-4, I've been scouting NT prospects. Every year. How many times have we had the discussion about having Rat move to DE? Every season!

Don't get me wrong, he's an excellent football player. He's just playing out of position. We don't need our NT to be the main penetrator along the DL. That's what he loves to do, and that's what he gets popular for, but that's not your typical NT responsibility. His inability to hold the point of attack, command a double team, makes everyone else around him work all that much harder. Whenever the Cowboys are having run stuffing issues, majority of the time, it's going back to him at the source.

I just think he likes going up against Centers and Guards versus Guards and Tackles because he finds it easier to penetrate.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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That's because of your system. If you switch to a two gap, then you give us Jay R. I would love for him to be our 3T.
I hate how people say this because I don't think it's true...not for NT. Wade had big ole Jammal Williams at NT in San Diego. Look at the other NTs we tried to bring in... Siavii, Brent, Montavious Stanley, even our UDFAs were all true BIGs. Wade tried to move Rat to DE in training camp years ago, but Rat acted like a baby and threw a fit about it. Bottom line is Ratliff overpowered Wade's desire to move him to DE.. and Wade had no balls to make him move and thus... our 3-4 defense has NEVER reached it's full potential.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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While a Ware-Ratliff-??-Spencer 4-3 front sounds intimidating with how much our defense sucks I wouldn't want to throw away what we've done to make the 3-4 work. We've given up an average of 26.8 PPG since Garrett took over the head coaching job. Almost an average of 27 points per game. To me that while a new head coach/defense coordinator would change things we are still years away from a super bowl appearance.

Sorry I got nothing else to say except that IMO we got one of the worst defenses in the league.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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it doesn't make you a ***** to ask for an autograph and it happens every year.
Yeah, it really does. Tashard is a *****. I don't care if it was for his three year old cousin.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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EVERY YEAR since we moved to the 3-4, I've been scouting NT prospects. Every year. How many times have we had the discussion about having Rat move to DE? Every season!

Don't get me wrong, he's an excellent football player. He's just playing out of position. We don't need our NT to be the main penetrator along the DL. That's what he loves to do, and that's what he gets popular for, but that's not your typical NT responsibility. His inability to hold the point of attack, command a double team, makes everyone else around him work all that much harder. Whenever the Cowboys are having run stuffing issues, majority of the time, it's going back to him at the source.

I just think he likes going up against Centers and Guards versus Guards and Tackles because he finds it easier to penetrate.
Josh. Brent.

Forget Allen Iverson, he's the answer.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, it really does. Tashard is a *****. I don't care if it was for his three year old cousin.
Why does it make you mad? Who cares?
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