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Old 12-22-2010, 12:10 AM    (permalink
romo4prez415
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Originally Posted by E-Man View Post
Jason Witten will probably be a Hall of Fame player. He'll probably pass Michael Irvin in terms of catches in 2-3 years, he's a great receiver and blocker, and he's considered the best tight end in the game right now. You don't trade players like that for draft picks. Draft picks are potential while great players are the pieces that you need to build a successful team. You don't trade a player that is everything you need for draft picks. That is not only backwards thinking in terms of team progression, but it sends a bad message to current and future players. Dallas wouldn't be a hot place for free agency all of a sudden if they decided to get rid of a great player in his prime.

The goal of getting new players is to upgrade on what you have or to replace something that is missing. You would be hard pressed to upgrade Witten, and getting rid of him creates a problem of losing the most reliable offensive weapon you have had in years. It's also not like you have only 3 or 4 picks in the upcoming draft. They have 7 picks in the upcoming draft, and that's enough to get new players on the team. Losing Witten loses the matchup problems he causes for opposing defenses, an easy target for Romo when under pressure, and it puts more heat on Miles and Dez in the passing game.
I wouldnt trade him if I believed we could contend for a super bowl right now but I think there are too many holes on this team to win right now and I think sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward. Witten is a great player but again he's going to be paid on his past performance and not how he's expected to play in the future. He will be 29 next year and will be receiving top dollar. I love him as a player and everything he symbolizes but when it comes to free agency you have to be ruthless and I wouldnt resign Witten because of age and expected diminishing returns therefore I'd trade him a year in advance and collect picks for the future. Tight ends are easy to replace look at how many rookies have been successful Gresham, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Moeki, and etc. If Marty B were to ever play extensively he would break out.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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If Marty B were to ever play extensively he would break out.
That's called an opinion. Trading Romo's security blanket that also happens to be the best combined TE in the game for draft picks especially ones that aren't in the 1st is a poor investment. And NONE of the names you mentioned are anywhere near the top 10 in combined TEs. If you take a narrow statistical approach in terms of catches / TDs that might be the conclusion however you CANNOT replace his overall ability with a 2nd or 3rd pick. Considering he is the top combined TE ... no one can replace him especially a rookie.

By that same token Romo is getting old and we shouldn't resign him and should off load him for some mid-rounders. Quarterbacks are easy to replace look at how many rookies have been successful Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, and etc. If McGee were to ever play extensively he would break out.

Hyperbole is dangerous. Witten is MUCH more valuable to the team than any 2nd or 3rd rounder.
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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That's called an opinion. Trading Romo's security blanket that also happens to be the best combined TE in the game for draft picks especially ones that aren't in the 1st is a poor investment. And NONE of the names you mentioned are anywhere near the top 10 in combined TEs. If you take a narrow statistical approach in terms of catches / TDs that might be the conclusion however you CANNOT replace his overall ability with a 2nd or 3rd pick. Considering he is the top combined TE ... no one can replace him especially a rookie.

By that same token Romo is getting old and we shouldn't resign him and should off load him for some mid-rounders. Quarterbacks are easy to replace look at how many rookies have been successful Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, and etc. If McGee were to ever play extensively he would break out.

Hyperbole is dangerous. Witten is MUCH more valuable to the team than any 2nd or 3rd rounder.
Silly conclusion because you have to understand premium of the position. Witten is an overrated blocker now. Marty B is clearly the best blocker on this team and he's more than athletic enough to threaten the seam. Witten is a great player but his position isnt of the most importance and we will be receiving diminishing returns for his next contract. Romo would obviously garner more than middle round picks and plays a position of the upmost importance on offense. McGee hasnt shown the ability that Martellus has in actual playing time. Nice try with the comparison but not even close. We have plenty of pass catching options IMO. Miles is more important to the offense than Witten because his ability to threaten and keep the safeties back allows for Witten to threaten underneath and i'm sure Marty B can fill the role not up to the ability of Witten but a solid player nonethless and being a better blocker. We're going to have 2 #1 WR's in Miles and Dez I dont think pass catching options is anything to be worried about. Again opinions vary but I think we have ALOT of holes and we're going to have to fill them some how. The defense is atrocious. You cannot blame scheme we've played 2 gap 1 gap zone coverage and man coverage and all have failed. We need a serious overhaul on defense.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Silly conclusion because you have to understand premium of the position. Witten is an overrated blocker now. Marty B is clearly the best blocker on this team and he's more than athletic enough to threaten the seam. Witten is a great player but his position isnt of the most importance and we will be receiving diminishing returns for his next contract. Romo would obviously garner more than middle round picks and plays a position of the upmost importance on offense. McGee hasnt shown the ability that Martellus has in actual playing time. Nice try with the comparison but not even close. We have plenty of pass catching options IMO. Miles is more important to the offense than Witten because his ability to threaten and keep the safeties back allows for Witten to threaten underneath and i'm sure Marty B can fill the role not up to the ability of Witten but a solid player nonethless and being a better blocker. We're going to have 2 #1 WR's in Miles and Dez I dont think pass catching options is anything to be worried about. Again opinions vary but I think we have ALOT of holes and we're going to have to fill them some how. The defense is atrocious. You cannot blame scheme we've played 2 gap 1 gap zone coverage and man coverage and all have failed. We need a serious overhaul on defense.
But Bennett hasn't shown much with the opportunities, his route running and overall football IQ is not what you would expect from a 3rd year guy. I'm confused on what makes you think he could step in for the role that Witten plays for our offense right now. Make no mistake about it, the Tight End in our offense is the go to guy. Romo and Witten have been playing so long together, they have a rare chemisty that takes years and years for players to develop. Romo knows exactly what Witten is going to do on any given play and vice-versa. That type of chemistry is invaluable.

Witten is only 28, he has probably another 5 years of playing at a high level. I'm not sure why you think we'd be getting diminishing returns on him for his next contract.
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Silly conclusion because you have to understand premium of the position. Witten is an overrated blocker now. Marty B is clearly the best blocker on this team and he's more than athletic enough to threaten the seam. Witten is a great player but his position isnt of the most importance and we will be receiving diminishing returns for his next contract. Romo would obviously garner more than middle round picks and plays a position of the upmost importance on offense. McGee hasnt shown the ability that Martellus has in actual playing time. Nice try with the comparison but not even close. We have plenty of pass catching options IMO. Miles is more important to the offense than Witten because his ability to threaten and keep the safeties back allows for Witten to threaten underneath and i'm sure Marty B can fill the role not up to the ability of Witten but a solid player nonethless and being a better blocker. We're going to have 2 #1 WR's in Miles and Dez I dont think pass catching options is anything to be worried about. Again opinions vary but I think we have ALOT of holes and we're going to have to fill them some how. The defense is atrocious. You cannot blame scheme we've played 2 gap 1 gap zone coverage and man coverage and all have failed. We need a serious overhaul on defense.
If there is not such a premium on the tight end position, then Witten won't be getting a huge contract that cripples the team's salary cap. When is the last time a team has given a tight end a big contract anyway? In the past it seems like teams would rather ship them because they think they're slowing down,a la Tony Gonzalez and Shannon Sharpe. In both of those cases the "old" tight ends had a lot left, and it would have benefited the team to keep them. Imagine Gonzalez with the Chiefs now. They'd be much better than what they are.

As for the team having holes, it's not like this is the Buffalo Bills we're talking about. There are holes, but not so much that you have to trade Pro Bowl players just to have a competitive team. The O-line can be fixed in FA, and the same can be said defensively. The draft will take care of areas that are lacking good FA help, but there's no need to acquire two unknown picks for the most reliable player on the team. Like I mentioned before, the reason why you get new players is either to replace someone or upgrade. No sense in doing that with a tight end that's the best at his position. Those two picks aren't guaranteed, but Witten is more than likely to have yet another slew of Pro Bowls in the next 3-5 years barring injury.
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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So just because I am wondering now, say Kitna and Mcgee go down......Who is our emergency QB? Buehler ? Hurd?
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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This game shows that both Buehler and Ball need to be immediately cut. They literally gave up the game. Ball missed horribly on the td and on the pass that got Arizona into field goal range. The Buehler missed an easy ass extra point that would've at least kept it 3 points over. I'm not too mad, but that's just insanely stupid by both guys.
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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Wow... We have had so many horrible losses as a fan base.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Eh, at least it improves our draft pick.

/optimism.

Buehler's ass needs to be gone. Ball is absolutely ******* pathetic. Jenkins is good for two or three huge plays given up a game this season. The OL sucks ****. Ugghhh, just put an end to this misery already. Let's go free-agency.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Tough loss, but with basically our 3rd string QB, I think we played well. You can't give up 2 INT TDs and expect to win. That said, we need to get a more consistant kicker next season. I think we could easily have gotten Feely in the offseason too.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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this defense needs a major facelift
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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It still baffles me how Sean Lee isn't in on passing situations. He's clearly better than anyone else in coverage at the ILB position.
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Tough loss guys, I cant believe Buehler who has the big leg misses a PAT. Im wondering if anyone is thinking like MetSox and dosent mind your boys losing more games to get a higher draft pick?
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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If it makes anyone feel any better, we're back in the Patrick Peterson sweepstakes.
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:09 AM    (permalink
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this defense needs a major facelift

That may be the case, but not because of this game. 14 of the 27 points came off pick 6's, and besides that one bomb, our defense DOMINATED.

I will continue to say, THIS TEAM IS CURSED.

2 pick 6's on the two opening drives, then a missed PAT to lose.... LOL. Cursedddddddd.

Anyway, does help the draft pick.
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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If it makes anyone feel any better, we're back in the Patrick Peterson sweepstakes.
Especially with Detroit winning. I think we jumped ahead of them now.
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't know about anyone else, but I was rooting for the Cardinals with everything I had. With the glut of likely 5-11 and 6-10 teams, one win can literally mean 5-7 draft spots.

What I want to see from this team, ideally, is a good measure of fight, compete in every game, and still lose. That's happening. That game last night was the ideal. We dominated the action, controlled the ball most of the night, won every phase of the game but TOs. And even after everything, we put ourselves in position to win the game at the end.

Buehler obviously is on his last straw. We shouldn't waste our investment by cutting him now, but we absolutely should bring in a vet during the off season and watch how it plays out during camp and pre season next year. If the light bulb doesn't go on for him by the beginning of the year, you cut your loses and stick with the solid vet.

This team, though, has shown a lot of good signs. This year has just been one of those seasons. But in terms of building next year's team, we have a QB, an elite core of offensive weapons including possibly the best receiving corps in the league, what should be the makings of an elite pass rush (I have no explanation for their performance this year), and some guys that should be a lot better in coverage.

Really, all we need is an elite guy in the secondary to hold things together along with another solid veteran safety to round things out, and then a couple quality guys on the offensive line.

We really aren't that far off. The biggest issue with the team--the absolute lack of discipline and accountability by the coaching staff--has been corrected since Garrett has had the reins. If that can be carried over to next season, we can jump right back up to playoff contention.

The bottom line, guys, is that this is a league where a team like Atlanta can look feeble and fatally flawed one year, and then dominate the conference en route to the #1 seed the next. Every year there are 2 or 3 teams that go from mediocre or even terrible to contenders the next year.

Dallas has the makings. If we can find a way to get Peterson (or Amukamara) to add to the secondary, add a solid tackle in the 2nd round and sign a solid guard and safety in FA, we could be a 11 or 12 win team next season. There is a ton of good players on this roster.
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Trading Witten is just unconscionable. And not p/o realty as long as he's the object of local media & Jerry's knobslobber wet dreams. Guy's a damn hero, face it, he will be a Boy for life.

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Buehler obviously is on his last straw. We shouldn't waste our investment by cutting him now, but we absolutely should bring in a vet during the off season and watch how it plays out during camp and pre season next year. If the light bulb doesn't go on for him by the beginning of the year, you cut your loses and stick with the solid vet.
Or pick the apple off the tree instead of out of a barrel of rotten ones..... some good kickers, like Kai Forbath, UCLA, will be there in the 6th-7th rds, & there will be plenty of comp picks to go around. Buehler is totally unreliable & isn't an NFL quality player. Dump him now!

And it looks like a mid-rounder has to go for QB depth as well -- 2 pick 6s in the 1st 2 plays? And remember that Kitna is 38. Romo goes down again & it's -- tilt! season over. Call it risk mitigation with Romo's injury history.

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Old 12-26-2010, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Especially with Detroit winning. I think we jumped ahead of them now.
Yea I think right now it stands:

1. Carolina
2. Denver
3. Cinci
4. Buffalo
5. Arizona
6. SF
7. Dallas
8. Cleveland
9. Detroit
10. Minnesota

ARI and SF play next week so one of them has to lose, I actually think if ARI wins we can leapfrog both of them based on SoS. Buffalo plays the Jets next week and with the Jets already locked into the 6th seed they don't have much to play for, maybe BUF plays some inspired football and upsets them. DEN and CIN have to win out. Obviously some things need to happen in our favor but you gotta feel better about your chances at Peterson now that DET is out of the way, they were a team that 100% would take him.

With the letdown season we had us fans deserve PP in the draft.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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That's a great plan DMW.

Does head to head match up have anything to do with draft order, or that only applies to making the playoffs?
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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what should be the makings of an elite pass rush (I have no explanation for their performance this year), and some guys that should be a lot better in coverage.

Really, all we need is an elite guy in the secondary to hold things together along with another solid veteran safety to round things out, and then a couple quality guys on the offensive line.
I just don't see the makings of anything close to "elite" with the guys we have now. The ONLY guy we have who has been consistant at getting to the ball is Ware. Spencer was only great for about 8 games last year, and has reverted back to his pre 2009 form. I don't think we can go into next year hoping that it gets better.

To me, I realize we need a FS and a CB badly, but we can't afford to ignore the front 7. In addition to the lack of pass rush, James and Brooking just aren't getting it done inside, so there's a need for an extra inside backer to compliment Lee.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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That's a great plan DMW.

Does head to head match up have anything to do with draft order, or that only applies to making the playoffs?
I think it's just record and opponent's win-loss record in the event of a tie. The team with the lower opponent win-loss record gets the higher pick in a tie.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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That's a great plan DMW.

Does head to head match up have anything to do with draft order, or that only applies to making the playoffs?
They determine it on Strength of Schedule (combined opp. winning %), head to head match ups don't count.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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I just don't see the makings of anything close to "elite" with the guys we have now. The ONLY guy we have who has been consistant at getting to the ball is Ware. Spencer was only great for about 8 games last year, and has reverted back to his pre 2009 form. I don't think we can go into next year hoping that it gets better.

To me, I realize we need a FS and a CB badly, but we can't afford to ignore the front 7. In addition to the lack of pass rush, James and Brooking just aren't getting it done inside, so there's a need for an extra inside backer to compliment Lee.
A lot of what we do in the front 7 will determine on who our new DC is. It has been discussed in here, the possibility of a 4-3, and we very well could make that switch.

If we go 4-3 Da'Quan Bowers becomes an option, and maybe the only front 7 option (not sure if Robert Quinn can play LE in a 4-3). To me, Fairley is strictly a 3-tech in the 43 and we already have Ratliff who could excell in that role. If we stick with the 3-4 I think we could go either Quinn (OLB) or Fairley(5-tech).

I'm no mentioning Dareus because I feel like his stock will fall out of the top 10 by April, we really underperformed this year and for a 5-tech the value is not there.

However with that said, I take Peterson 10 out of 10 times over all of those guys. Plug him in at FS and watch an all-pro grow before your eyes. When's the last time we had a playmaker like that in our secondary? Never.
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Old 12-26-2010, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Default 2011 Draft

Carolina 2-13 559 Franchise QB
Denver 4-11 507 I don't think they take the CB...they go DL
Cincy 4-11 570 WR, but to many inexp. WR on roster. DL possib
Buff 4-11 576 DL or LB....maybe WR...
Ariz 5-10 464 Not DB...LB or DE
SF 5-10 505 They need a QB....
Dallas 5-10 509 At least one of the Top CB we be on Board...
HOuston 5-10 527
Minn 5-10 545
Det 5-10 561
Cleveland 5-10 565

I think this is updated. I used ESPN Playoff page and am assuming MINN loses on Tuesday.

What do you guys think?
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