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Old 08-28-2011, 11:25 AM    (permalink
Macarthur
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I've been a big defender of Bennett, but I'm done. Just no focus. Probably can't trade him now.

Really liked the burst of Murray. Choice is as good as gone. Felix and Murray as a 1 2 punch is going to be fun to watch. Those two are going to put pressure on defenses the entire game. I think that's a point we might have overlooked with all the carries MB3 got the last couple of years. He never really put much pressure on the defense.

If anyone has any doubts that Garrett is running this football team, the Gurode thing should settle that debate. He doesn't want old, tired, broken down vets that can't move. Love it. Might hurt a bit initially, but you have to be excited about the direction of this thing.

Wonder if you could package Gurode and Choice together for a decent DB or DL?
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Old 08-28-2011, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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I've been a big defender of Bennett, but I'm done. Just no focus. Probably can't trade him now.

Really liked the burst of Murray. Choice is as good as gone. Felix and Murray as a 1 2 punch is going to be fun to watch. Those two are going to put pressure on defenses the entire game. I think that's a point we might have overlooked with all the carries MB3 got the last couple of years. He never really put much pressure on the defense.

If anyone has any doubts that Garrett is running this football team, the Gurode thing should settle that debate. He doesn't want old, tired, broken down vets that can't move. Love it. Might hurt a bit initially, but you have to be excited about the direction of this thing.

Wonder if you could package Gurode and Choice together for a decent DB or DL?
I think you have to keep Choice for this year because of injury concerns to both Murray and Felix.
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Old 08-28-2011, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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I haven't heard much chatter about John Phillips yet. Is he fully recovered from the knee injury and playing well? He had picked up some much steam last year before the injury.

My thoughts on a possible trade of Gurode. I think that if Costa didn't just get injured, I'd be all for it. But even though Costa is only gonna be out a few weeks, I think it's bad timing. I'm all for this youth movement on the OL, but it's scary with the Costa injury right now.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/...de-source-says

Again we cannot get anyone to trade with us. Insane!!!
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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I think you have to keep Choice for this year because of injury concerns to both Murray and Felix.
I don't think Garrett makes decisions based on someone possibly getting hurt. He wants the best players and hardest workers no matter what their status.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/...de-source-says

Again we cannot get anyone to trade with us. Insane!!!
I'm sure it was his contract. No one is going to take that on when they know he's going to be cut.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Norm on the ticket just had an interesting thought. Many, including myself, thought the Scandrick signing might be a message to Newman. I'm not so sure it might not be a signal to Jenkins. Based on what Garrett is doing, Jenkins' track record of spotty effort isn't going to fly with the new guy in charge.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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I always thought Gurode was overrated, but it does seem a little extreme given our atrocious depth.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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I always thought Gurode was overrated, but it does seem a little extreme given our atrocious depth.
How is our depth atrocious?
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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He should've said "proven depth".

but...I like the path this is going in....

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Old 08-29-2011, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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How is our depth atrocious?
Really?

We have absolutely nothing behind Free and Smith. Holland and two rookies at G, and an unproven Costa starting.

I dont like this move at all. Three new starters on the o-line and it may come in the way of two rookies and a former undrafted, 2nd year Center, with one start under his belt.

These younger guys have been getting rave reviews...but experimenting on the line like this, may not bode well at all. Realistically, the chances that our line is really good this year, cannot be that great. Regardless of how the youthful guys have played in camp/preseason. Lets talk odds...it's not easy to formulate a great O-Line...it normally takes some time. And we're throwing rookies and Costa out there early and all at once. And lets be honest, we havent had the greatest track record with in house lineman. The game isnt played on paper, but our Line...starting and depth wise, looks absolutely horrid. That's not to say that I'm not excited about the potential of Smith, Nagy, Arkin, and Costa...but this is an incredible risk, for a team with "Super Bowl aspirations".
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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How is our depth atrocious?
How is it good?
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Really?

We have absolutely nothing behind Free and Smith. Holland and two rookies at G, and an unproven Costa starting.

I dont like this move at all. Three new starters on the o-line and it may come in the way of two rookies and a former undrafted, 2nd year Center, with one start under his belt.

These younger guys have been getting rave reviews...but experimenting on the line like this, may not bode well at all. Realistically, the chances that our line is really good this year, cannot be that great. Regardless of how the youthful guys have played in camp/preseason. Lets talk odds...it's not easy to formulate a great O-Line...it normally takes some time. And we're throwing rookies and Costa out there early and all at once. And lets be honest, we havent had the greatest track record with in house lineman. The game isnt played on paper, but our Line...starting and depth wise, looks absolutely horrid. That's not to say that I'm not excited about the potential of Smith, Nagy, Arkin, and Costa...but this is an incredible risk, for a team with "Super Bowl aspirations".
Can we agree that those aspirations are not realistic?

Anyways, I haven't been happy with Gurode for some time now, but to cut him now is just ridiculous. It's just another sign that this team makes "on the fly" decisions with poor planning. Makes me even more mad that we drafted Bruce Carter over Stephen Wisniewski. Guess we're going ALL-IN with Costa now. If it works, fine, but this doesn't sit easy at all.

Our inexperience and lack of depth is SCARY.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/...de-source-says

Again we cannot get anyone to trade with us. Insane!!!
The Patriots would've gotten a 1st rounder for him. lol.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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So who do you guys like better? Phil Costa or Kevin Kowalski?

I think it's a toss up at this point, with maybe some lean on Kowalski for me.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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I think it's time for you guys to bring your expectations down a few notches.

Everyone wants mass changes...except when it happens. The line has been old and slow since the Giants playoff game. Let's get it done, and out of the way, get these young guys in here playing meaningful minutes, and not look back. Stop paying these washed up old guys, we're in cap hell for a reason. Let the best players play...it definitely hurts for depth purposes, but there's no doubt in my mind that Costa is better than Gurode at this point. Why pay him all that money to sit on the bench.

You guys want to change the culture, but don't want to go about it the hard way. It's strange to me.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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So say we have Tyron, Kosier, Costa, Nagy and Free as our line. Our depth is Montrae Holland, Parnell, Arkin, Kowalski and Sam Young? Holland is average at best, the rest are completely unproven. You know Kosier will get hurt at some point in the season, he always does. Costa may not start the season. It seems very risky to cut Gurode given the uncertainty.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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I like what I've seen from Nagy, Arkin, Costa, and Kowalski. Cutting Gurode doesn't bother me too much. Wish we would could have received a late round pick for him, but whatever.

The spot that scares me is tackle. If Sam Young turns into a starter because of injury Dallas is fvcked. That guy is garbage.

Seems like I've seen guys on here complaining about old guys staying too long, and not giving the young guys a chance to prove themselves. Well get ready because it looks like that is changing.

We are gonna take some lumps, but I think we turn out better because of it.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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but to cut him now is just ridiculous. It's just another sign that this team makes "on the fly" decisions with poor planning.
I couldn't disagree more. I actually think this is a phenominal sign that Garrett is in control and making decisions. If you ever read or listen to Bryan Broaddus, he has been saying for 2 years that Gurode is getting by on reputation. He is a declining player. NE is genius for doing these things, but because JJ does it, it's foolish.

Now, I know that these decisions could hurt in the short run, but this all shows me that Garrett is running the show. Everyone bitched about lazy, old, overpaid players for a couple of years here. Garrett is getting young and putting a premium on guys that work and compete and now everyone is bitching to high holy hell.

It makes some of our fans, not singling you out, look schizophrenic. Everyone wants change except when it actually happens.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I couldn't disagree more. I actually think this is a phenominal sign that Garrett is in control and making decisions. If you ever read or listen to Bryan Broaddus, he has been saying for 2 years that Gurode is getting by on reputation. He is a declining player. NE is genius for doing these things, but because JJ does it, it's foolish.

Now, I know that these decisions could hurt in the short run, but this all shows me that Garrett is running the show. Everyone bitched about lazy, old, overpaid players for a couple of years here. Garrett is getting young and putting a premium on guys that work and compete and now everyone is bitching to high holy hell.

It makes some of our fans, not singling you out, look schizophrenic. Everyone wants change except when it actually happens.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Not really...what Dallas is doing, is rolling the dice. Colombo and Davis were horrible...we all wanted them out. But Gurode is still a good player...and sure, you want to replace aging talent. But gradually, not all at once, if you really plan on competing. No, they're doing it all in one year. And not with high round draft picks (aside from Smith), or proven players. They're doing it all at once with mid to late round picks, who werent even viewed as early starters and an unproven center, who's recent praise has really come out of no where. Our o-line is in complete re-building mode with a bunch of youngsters, in a year where Dallas is still supposed to be a real threat. What they're doing...is completely uncommon, given where the talent is actually coming from. It's a major risk.

And as was pointed out...Kosier is very solid, but he's injury proned...Costa is already having knee issues. It's not the right time at all, imo. We moved Kosier to the right side to help out Smith...and now we're looking at two inexperienced interior lineman playing side by side. I dont care how good they've played to this point...the odds are not in our favor of this line being good on a consistent level. Just simple percentages. I hope I'm wrong...I certainly like all the players, but two rookies and Gurode...sounds a lot better than three unexperienced players to protect Romo.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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I think it's time for you guys to bring your expectations down a few notches.

Everyone wants mass changes...except when it happens. The line has been old and slow since the Giants playoff game. Let's get it done, and out of the way, get these young guys in here playing meaningful minutes, and not look back. Stop paying these washed up old guys, we're in cap hell for a reason. Let the best players play...it definitely hurts for depth purposes, but there's no doubt in my mind that Costa is better than Gurode at this point. Why pay him all that money to sit on the bench.

You guys want to change the culture, but don't want to go about it the hard way. It's strange to me.
I don't want change for the sake of change. I don't want change just because practice and preseason seems to be going well for some 7th round and Undrafted FA rookies. Yeah, I want change, but I would've preferred to do it with a lot less RISK!

These are high risk decisions being made. It's practically Russian Roulette. Have we seen a pattern of success in the NFL with this method the Cowboys are currently employing? If so, please enlighten me.

To me, this seems more like cockiness. I think since Jerry hit on Miles Austin and Doug Free that he thinks these guys will pan out too. I dunno... If it works great, if it doesn't, Jerry looks like a fool. ...and the problem is that Jerry has no problems looking likea fool. NONE.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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These are high risk decisions being made. It's practically Russian Roulette. Have we seen a pattern of success in the NFL with this method the Cowboys are currently employing? If so, please enlighten me.
Absolutely there is risk here.

HOwever, with regards to your last point, OL is one of the positions that there really seems to be no direct correlation to success and draft position. It is very very common for low OL draft picks to have solid NFL careers.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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I couldn't disagree more. I actually think this is a phenominal sign that Garrett is in control and making decisions. If you ever read or listen to Bryan Broaddus, he has been saying for 2 years that Gurode is getting by on reputation. He is a declining player. NE is genius for doing these things, but because JJ does it, it's foolish.

Now, I know that these decisions could hurt in the short run, but this all shows me that Garrett is running the show. Everyone bitched about lazy, old, overpaid players for a couple of years here. Garrett is getting young and putting a premium on guys that work and compete and now everyone is bitching to high holy hell.

It makes some of our fans, not singling you out, look schizophrenic. Everyone wants change except when it actually happens.
What is that about Broaddus that we haven't been saying here for years? How long have we been scouting college Centers here on our forums? I feel it unneccessary to give him credit for something that most of us here have already crying about for years now. NE doesn't do this. They have shown time and time again that they get value for the players they release. THAT is what is genius about them. NE will get draft picks for their players. We cut Gurode for NOTHING. NE will then use high picks to fill their needs. Jerry thinks a 7th rounder who didn't start in college and an UDFA are his solution. Oh jeez. There are ways to make change without so much risk, but that's not what this team decided to do.

Young, hard working.... if that's ALL you're looking for in a successful OL overhaul, then we've got different ideas on what's good for this team.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Absolutely there is risk here.

HOwever, with regards to your last point, OL is one of the positions that there really seems to be no direct correlation to success and draft position. It is very very common for low OL draft picks to have solid NFL careers.
Yeah, I agree. How many in year 1? How many times in history have you seen a team replace 3 starters with rookies (one 7th rounder and another UDFA) and then move thier only vet with more than 2 years starting experience to a new position? C'mon Macarthur.... you acknowledge the risk. That's the only point I'm making.


In regards to OL being successful regardless of draft position... yes... but that's after years of development for the most part. We're pretty much expecting a miracle. No wait. 3 miracles.
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