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Old 08-29-2011, 08:44 PM    (permalink
leroyisgod
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Originally Posted by pocketaces View Post
Yes, in an ideal situation we would have Eric williams at T, Stepnoski at C and Larry allen to surround these young guys but thats not the case. We got old all at the same time. All Im saying is I rather take my chances with these young guys than to throw out those guys from last year. We KNOW what we had with Davis, Colombo, Gurode...OLD OVERWEIGHT UNDER ACHIEVERS. We don't know what we have with the new guys yet, but IMO its gotta be better even while we are taking our lumps
I agree with you on this. Only way the young guys get experience is by playing.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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*Thumbs up* Pocketaces...I think that's all anyone is saying. We know what we've had with the Oline, they've gotten Romo knocked around year after year. If we're going to continue to let him get knocked around, it might as well be the cheap young guys...right?

Nobody is saying there's no risk, and that the odds are against the Line in succeeding...Everyone agrees there.
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Over the hill? LOL Right now we may have the best OL in the division. We have stability for the most part, and the Oh'ara who was older and Richy are cut. Not only that, we have one of the best OL coaches in the league.

I am more interested for Baas and Beatty. They need to gel. Remember we moved David D inside, and playing our 3rd round pick from couple years ago.
I guarantee the Giants OL will be worst than the Cowboys by the end of the year.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Gurode isnt even bad...he had to carry Davis' fat ass last year. He'll probably go sign somewhere and make another pro bowl. As I said in one of my previous posts, it would have been better keeping Gurode or signing a veteran LG to start, either or. That way, you're not throwing three kids to the wolves all at once. We have a pro bowl QB caliber to protect back there. And a veteran addition or keeping Gurode, would at least in theory, backed by I dont know, the history of the league...have given us a better chance, and would have been better for the transition of the line in the long run. I just hope this doesnt bury us. The fact that some fans seem unconcerned is mind boggling, because it's a completely unconventional and a chancy game they're playing right now.

I dont want to keep talking about, really. We're just going in circles, we all have our stances. I like all these young players...but I dont agree with this latest move.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Here's hoping heart and hustle lead the way.
I really thought you'd be thrilled that JG has taken control of this team. All these moves are JG not JJ. It will take a couple of years, but cant you see the kind of team JG wants? I'm sure next years draft will be all about the D. Igor will be gone, Newman will be gone, and if these other vets dont perform JG will cut their asses too. Younger, smarter, faster, more athletic, I Love the direction were heading, but thats me and my rose colored glasses :-/
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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I agree with you on this. Only way the young guys get experience is by playing.
Wait, wait, wait...O-Line is typically a position where players need to sit and learn. They'd still be inexperienced in the sense that they havent actually played...but more skilled, technique savvy, and knowledgable of the position and their assignments itself.

Young O-lineman that play early, tend to struggle...a lot. Strength and technique issues can be ironed out by sitting, without hurting the team, or getting someone injured. Doug Free is a perfect example.

Lets even factor in the whole lockout thing...the timing for this is all off.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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*Thumbs up* Pocketaces...I think that's all anyone is saying. We know what we've had with the Oline, they've gotten Romo knocked around year after year. If we're going to continue to let him get knocked around, it might as well be the cheap young guys...right?

Nobody is saying there's no risk, and that the odds are against the Line in succeeding...Everyone agrees there.


I guarantee the Giants OL will be worst than the Cowboys by the end of the year.
Based on what? That's just you being biased because you're a cowboys fan. So all those new faces will be better than 3 veteran guys? You could be right, but I think it's just your die hard fan in you talking.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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I guarantee the Giants OL will be worst than the Cowboys by the end of the year.

The Eagles line may be too, they are going to struggle again. I would have liked to keep him, but I also believe they don't see a drop off in talent or else they wouldn't have made this move. They can see the practices we can't. I just think our line is going to end up being a very good unit that can gain some chemistry playing together and continue to get better.


Whatever shuffle we are making on the line, I'll take ours over those two teams by seasons end.
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Gurode isnt even bad...he had to carry Davis' fat ass last year. He'll probably go sign somewhere and make another pro bowl. As I said in one of my previous posts, it would have been better keeping Gurode or signing a veteran LG to start, either or. That way, you're not throwing three kids to the wolves all at once. We have a pro bowl QB caliber to protect back there. And a veteran addition or keeping Gurode, would at least in theory, backed by I dont know, the history of the league...have given us a better chance, and would have been better for the transition of the line in the long run. I just hope this doesnt bury us. The fact that some fans seem unconcerned is mind boggling, because it's a completely unconventional and a chancy game they're playing right now.

I dont want to keep talking about, really. We're just going in circles, we all have our stances. I like all these young players...but I dont agree with this latest move.
If Gurode was so good, why would the Cowboys get rid of him?

Here are a few good reasons: He was overrated, overpaid and overweight. Oh, and they’re confident in Phil Costa.

Don’t be fooled by Gurode’s five consecutive Pro Bowl berths. He was voted in the last two seasons based purely on reputation. His performance has been a concern for the Cowboys.

Gurode would have made $5.5 million this season. That’s far too much for a declining player, especially one who reported to camp weighing 334 pounds – 18 more than his listed weight last season – and recovering from June knee surgery.


Per ESPN Dallas
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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I really thought you'd be thrilled that JG has taken control of this team. All these moves are JG not JJ. It will take a couple of years, but cant you see the kind of team JG wants? I'm sure next years draft will be all about the D. Igor will be gone, Newman will be gone, and if these other vets dont perform JG will cut their asses too. Younger, smarter, faster, more athletic, I Love the direction were heading, but thats me and my rose colored glasses :-/
I haven't criticized the cuts. Only our expectations for this year. You realize that right? You seem to acknowledge that we'll be better in the future for this, and I agree, so long as they don't bust. But I'm not excited about predicting success for this team this year. The wins will be bonus. This is a complete rebuilding effort.

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Old 08-29-2011, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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pfftttt....I've seen plenty of Gurode, and he's fine. Of course he's over weight, he couldnt work out at all. But he's healthy now. His decline is overblown...Leonard Davis played some of the worst football, I've seen out of one of any of our lineman last season. You really think Gurode isnt going to be starting on someone else's team? Come on. Jerry has made it known that we're cutting those big contracts and they've already committed to two young lineman starters and they like Costa, so they pulled the ole power play on Gurode. But really, this is a stupid move any way you look at it, when you consider that this leads to us starting again...three inexperienced lineman.

And yes, Dallas does have confidence in Costa...I know this. That's not the point...the point is, that you're teaming the inexperienced C up with two more rookies along the same line. Hence why I said, keep Gurode or sign a veteran LG. That way, you're starting two young guys either way, instead of 3. Which is the majority of your offensive line.

The whole point I'm trying to make...is that it's never good to have the majority of your offensive line be this green.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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If Gurode was so good, why would the Cowboys get rid of him?

Here are a few good reasons: He was overrated, overpaid and overweight. Oh, and they’re confident in Phil Costa.

Don’t be fooled by Gurode’s five consecutive Pro Bowl berths. He was voted in the last two seasons based purely on reputation. His performance has been a concern for the Cowboys.

Gurode would have made $5.5 million this season. That’s far too much for a declining player, especially one who reported to camp weighing 334 pounds – 18 more than his listed weight last season – and recovering from June knee surgery.


Per ESPN Dallas
We've been scouting college Centers for some time now. It's not about losing Gurode. It's about replacing him with Costa. Who is hurt at the time Gurode is being cut. You would have zero complaints about losing Gurode today from me if we had drafted Stephan Wisneiwski instead of Bruce Carter. ...or had signed Olin Kruetz in FA as a stop gap and mentor for Costa/Kowalski.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Based on what? That's just you being biased because you're a cowboys fan. So all those new faces will be better than 3 veteran guys? You could be right, but I think it's just your die hard fan in you talking.
It is. Every move we make works. Don't you know that by now?
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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It is. Every move we make works. Don't you know that by now?
LOL. If it works cool, then it's an asset for you guys. But I'd take our OL over any other team in the division until proven otherwise. But hey, if you guys made a good move and your OL becomes like our 2007-2008 god like OL, then more power to you guys.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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We can only hope for a god like line. lol.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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So since we cut major salary I was hoping for some big signings, but we got none. Instead we continued to overpay our own guys... Spears... Scandrick... If the plan was to overhaul the OL, then I would've been a lot more comfortable signing a more proven G or C in FA. It's bad enough starting a rookie 1st round RT. But a 7th round OG and UDFA with 4 games under his belt is asking for trouble.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Based on what? That's just you being biased because you're a cowboys fan. So all those new faces will be better than 3 veteran guys? You could be right, but I think it's just your die hard fan in you talking.
I think the Giants OL suffers from the same fate that the Cowboys OL suffered from....age and injuries.

That's not bias, just odds....If healthy, you're 100% right...best line in the NFC East....but I remember reading the Giants had the oldest(or top 3) lines in football. I just don't see that line staying healthy all year.

D-Unit...step down off the ledge sir.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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LOL. If it works cool, then it's an asset for you guys. But I'd take our OL over any other team in the division until proven otherwise. But hey, if you guys made a good move and your OL becomes like our 2007-2008 god like OL, then more power to you guys.
Sorry, I think you missed my sarcasm. I didn't mean truthful about those last 2 sentences. Our fan boy excitement has gotten control of our fan base here. I'm trying not to believe that we have a playoff team. I know we don't...barring a miracle.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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We have playoff caliber skill position players on offense, an extremely unproven offensive line, a once good, now struggling, veteran heavy defense, who happen to be learning a new scheme, and 5 kickers.

Championship. :D

I really cant wait to start this season for sure, though. I'm excited to see how this plays out. I dont expect a week one win, however. At least we start against Sanchez, though. I just wish it wasnt the Sunday Night game...I hate having to wait around all day on opening night.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Sorry, I think you missed my sarcasm. I didn't mean truthful about those last 2 sentences. Our fan boy excitement has gotten control of our fan base here. I'm trying not to believe that we have a playoff team. I know we don't...barring a miracle.
Lol, This is what I'm saying, the hyperbole is ridiculous...I've already said pages back that we need to reassess our expectations for this season. I don't think the Cowboys are a playoff team whatsoever...They're rebuilding. I'm content with that, I'm not naive enough to expect to go into the season with a limited offseason, a new DC, revamped line, and the same issues as last year, and magically make a SB run. I don't think anyone is saying that whatsoever.

My excitement is in seeing the Front office make tough decisions and cut players that aren't playing up to their contract. Could they have done it with a better transition? Absolutely...but the boys are in cap hell, and need to get under to build a contender in a ever closing window, you can't do that and still pay high priced over the hill players at the same time.

Point to one person in this thread that has said that the O-Line isn't going to struggle? And that some of these decisions may not have some huge short term consequences. Point to one...You're confusing posters understanding the rationale for the cuts as blind fanboyish behavior, when it's not even close to that.

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Old 08-29-2011, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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I think the Giants OL suffers from the same fate that the Cowboys OL suffered from....age and injuries.

That's not bias, just odds....If healthy, you're 100% right...best line in the NFC East....but I remember reading the Giants had the oldest(or top 3) lines in football. I just don't see that line staying healthy all year.

D-Unit...step down off the ledge sir.
Well we are not that old. Like I said, O'hara and Richy are gone. And injuries was last year! Now we moved on to Cb! Plus we have great depth so I am not worried from that perspective. Oldest, but two old guys are gone..

LT - 26
LG - 30
C - 29
RG - 29
RT - 32

That's not an old offensive line.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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I dont even like Madden...but I'm actually a little anxious to see how they rate our starting line, in the first roster update. lol. Their ratings suck in general, but it should still be funny.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FreshBoy! View Post
Lol, This is what I'm saying, the hyperbole is ridiculous...I've already said pages back that we need to reassess our expectations for this season. I don't think the Cowboys are a playoff team whatsoever...They're rebuilding. I'm content with that, I'm not naive enough to expect to go into the season with a limited offseason, a new DC, revamped line, and the same issues as last year, and magically make a SB run. I don't think anyone is saying that whatsoever.

My excitement is in seeing the Front office make tough decisions and cut players that aren't playing up to their contract. Could they have done it with a better transition? Absolutely...but the boys are in cap hell, and need to get under to build a contender in a ever closing window, you can't do that and still pay high priced over the hill players at the same time.

Point to one person in this thread that has said that the O-Line isn't going to struggle? And that some of these decisions may not have some huge short term consequences. Point to one...You're confusing posters understanding the rationale for the cuts as blind fanboyish behavior, when it's not even close to that.
I agree with all of those bolded statements. So why are you upset with me again? I'm saying the same thing.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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I am just wondering how good the game is. With the media and PR hype, I am thinking fans may say it's better than it actually is. I am not a fan of the scouting feature from what I read. There should be no ??? in the ratings number. In real football, all teams have measurables. Accordingly to what I read, someone said they scouted until they got all the grades, but during the draft other cpu teams drafted the players, leaving the guy to draft players with a lot of ??? in various skill set categories.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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I didnt get it last year...and all I know about this year's version is that all the Qbs are way too fast and they put a timer on individual FA signings. It doesnt feel like football to me, the gameplay is just awkward, imo. That said, I tried this year's demo and it feels better than past Madden's, aside from the QB speed. I think I'm getting this year's just because my dad wants it. lol. But if I had my way, I'd probably wait until the new consoles come out in a few years, before buying another Madden, because I dont expect much change as things currently are.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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That loser, JJT, has said as much. No team goes into a season with three inexperienced lineman with a contending mentality, or championship aspirations. It's a move that screams re-build. It's also the first Cowboy team in team history that will start the season with two rookies starting along the line.
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