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Old 10-11-2011, 04:14 PM    (permalink
Macarthur
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I thought Prince benefited from being in a CB draft that had one guy at the top and then some other guys that would normally be late first rounders.

I do not think Prince was a top 10 pick like some were predicting. 19 might have been a bit early, but he's probably a solid pick there. I think he will be a good solid CB for a decade, but I don't ever see him being a dynamic playmaker.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I thought Prince benefited from being in a CB draft that had one guy at the top and then some other guys that would normally be late first rounders.

I do not think Prince was a top 10 pick like some were predicting. 19 might have been a bit early, but he's probably a solid pick there. I think he will be a good solid CB for a decade, but I don't ever see him being a dynamic playmaker.
He benefited from the teams making a run on Qbs. He was, according to our Director of Scouting, Marc Ross, a top 10 pick who dropped because of the run on QBs. So, based on his post draft interview, that Prince would be off the board, and so we made our list of BPA, and Prince's name kept staring us in the face as our pick got closer, and on our pick, he was there.

Ross basically said the pick was an easy one and everyone in the room was on board.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Well, I'm in no position to disagree with him. We'll see. Those were just my thoughts on him. He struck me as a guy very similar to Jenkins for us which we got at something like 26 or so.

Our scouts had a first round grade on Sean Lee and that looks like a good pick.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Well, I'm in no position to disagree with him. We'll see. Those were just my thoughts on him. He struck me as a guy very similar to Jenkins for us which we got at something like 26 or so.

Our scouts had a first round grade on Sean Lee and that looks like a good pick.
Lee is a great, great pick! I like him a lot. Guy is in beast mode. Yeah Marc Ross was giddy when he did those interviews between rounds talking about each player to the media on giants.com. He said basically we were doing our thing, and each pick Prince would be there until it was our turn and he was there.

In our organization, they felt that QB run pushed good value down which helped us out. He said it was a truly BPA, one which we couldn't turn away from. That's why personally I can't hate the pick even though we didn't need another CB in theory. Well now, we do, but even Prince is hurt.

We did have Webster, TT, Ross, Bruce Johnson. Adding Prince would make us even more solid, but we technically didn't need a damn first round CB. But the talent at that spot meant too much value to pass up.

Mind you this was our organization's thought process. And in a passing league, you can never have too many pass rushers and Cbs. So supposedly this was a no brain pick for us.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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. But the talent at that spot meant too much value to pass up.

Mind you this was our organization's thought process. And in a passing league, you can never have too many pass rushers and Cbs. So supposedly this was a no brain pick for us.
Agreed....
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Lee is a great, great pick! I like him a lot. Guy is in beast mode. Yeah Marc Ross was giddy when he did those interviews between rounds talking about each player to the media on giants.com. He said basically we were doing our thing, and each pick Prince would be there until it was our turn and he was there.

In our organization, they felt that QB run pushed good value down which helped us out. He said it was a truly BPA, one which we couldn't turn away from. That's why personally I can't hate the pick even though we didn't need another CB in theory. Well now, we do, but even Prince is hurt.

We did have Webster, TT, Ross, Bruce Johnson. Adding Prince would make us even more solid, but we technically didn't need a damn first round CB. But the talent at that spot meant too much value to pass up.

Mind you this was our organization's thought process. And in a passing league, you can never have too many pass rushers and Cbs. So supposedly this was a no brain pick for us.
Speaking of Terrell Thomas. He's a FA after the year and with the pick of Prince, I feel more inclined to say that TT will not be with the Giants next year. If so, he'd be a great candidate to bring to the Cowboys. The way players move within our division through FA is pretty nuts.

With no lockout this time, addressing this kind of need before the draft would allow us to be a lot more flexible with our picks. This is Newman's last year as a Cowboy as far as I'm expecting.
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Speaking of Terrell Thomas. He's a FA after the year and with the pick of Prince, I feel more inclined to say that TT will not be with the Giants next year. If so, he'd be a great candidate to bring to the Cowboys. The way players move within our division through FA is pretty nuts.

With no lockout this time, addressing this kind of need before the draft would allow us to be a lot more flexible with our picks. This is Newman's last year as a Cowboy as far as I'm expecting.
Well he is coming off a second ACL injury to the same knee. I think he had it one in college and now he has one as a pro. Also, just like Steve Smith and Kiwi, these things are happening contract year!!

This is key because now this hurts their bargaining power when it's time to negotiate.


Players hurt in contract year:

Steve Smith
TT
Kiwi
Jonathan G. MLB


So it helps the team that we don't have the break the bank open, however, if they feel they can get more money elsewhere, they can leave.

I bet Steve Smith is regretting leaving us for a damn 1 year contract! He was a pro bowler with us, now he is a nobody, just an avg guy in that system. He looks depressed too. No more autograph give aways on twitter and FB. No more interacting with fans.

Eagles fans use him as a figurative middle finger towards us, while a lot of Giants fans loathe him for this betrayal. So basically he is a player with no home. Watching the eagles.com video of Smith when asked about playing us week 3 was awkward. They kept trying to get him to bad mouth us, and he just was robotic. He doesn't look happy.

So the issue becomes how much less do you play these guys when negotiating when factoring in talent vs injury.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys rarely sign guys from other teams in the Division.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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I've had the opportunity this year to catch a decent amount of the Arizona Cardinals games. In particular I've been watching Patrick Peterson. I for one was hoping we were going to trade up to get him. At this point in his rookie season, I'd have to say I'm glad we didn't. On special teams as a returner he's good. However, at CB he seems lost at this point. He does have 1 int for a pick six, but he's been terribly abused by some teams to this point. I know rookie CB's tend to get abused, but I feel even our shittier CB's are better than him at this point. He might have to end up moving to Safety.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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I do think there's a risk on a guy like this that was just so gifted athletically that at the college level, he was just simply better than everyone he went against.

I will say this, in the bowl game last year, Jeff Fuller of A&M had a good day against him because Fuller is big, strong and a good route runner.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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I've had the opportunity this year to catch a decent amount of the Arizona Cardinals games. In particular I've been watching Patrick Peterson. I for one was hoping we were going to trade up to get him. At this point in his rookie season, I'd have to say I'm glad we didn't. On special teams as a returner he's good. However, at CB he seems lost at this point. He does have 1 int for a pick six, but he's been terribly abused by some teams to this point. I know rookie CB's tend to get abused, but I feel even our shittier CB's are better than him at this point. He might have to end up moving to Safety.
Another one of those awesome HOFer type LSU players.

... give me a mediocre Miami guy or Michigan guy over an SEC guy any day. SEC gets so hyped.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Another one of those awesome HOFer type LSU players.

... give me a mediocre Miami guy or Michigan guy over an SEC guy any day. SEC gets so hyped.
Not tagging players with a school is the best way to evaluate. A solid athlete is a solid athlete regardless of conference.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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That's because Peterson is a FS. Malcolm Jenkins sucked as a CB too but as soon as they moved him he started to look like a stud. Same issue with PP, he'll be moved.


And it's such a lazy argument to label players by a College, seriously. I get into it all the time about people who want to label UT guys as bust, lazy, entitled, or whatever else they wanna call it.


Had we listened to those old adages about certain Colleges we certainly wouldn't have drafted Sean Lee. Those Penn St guys suck right? Just scout a player on your own and form your own judgement, just don't make or break him because he went to a certain school.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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That's because Peterson is a FS. Malcolm Jenkins sucked as a CB too but as soon as they moved him he started to look like a stud. Same issue with PP, he'll be moved.


And it's such a lazy argument to label players by a College, seriously. I get into it all the time about people who want to label UT guys as bust, lazy, entitled, or whatever else they wanna call it.


Had we listened to those old adages about certain Colleges we certainly wouldn't have drafted Sean Lee. Those Penn St guys suck right? Just scout a player on your own and form your own judgement, just don't make or break him because he went to a certain school.
Agreed. I was a huge proponent for us drafting Peterson and I preached ad naseum that I thought we should play him at Free Safety, in spite of a TON of criticism. I still remember the "YOU DON'T CHANGE THE POSITION OF A TOP 10 PICK!!!" debates. Fun times! :)

I share the same opinion on Mike Jenkins. He's doing great for us at corner once again and that's great because we need him there the most. However, if he hadn't shown improvement from last year, then I thought moving him to FS could not just save his career, but ultimately be the best position for him. He's just better playmaker when he's facing the ball than with his back to the ball.

Patrick Peterson's struggles at CB are not a big surprise when you also consider the lack of pass rush they have and the fact that he's not getting a lot of help in the secondary, especially since they traded away DRC.

---

But on the topic of judging players based off their schools being completely irrelevant... I don't completely agree there. It's not necessarily the school per se, but rather "the system" that that college's football team runs. Players from certain systems have traditionally had a harder or easier time adjusting to NFL systems based off what they experienced in college. We're starting to see more of a bridge these days for spread systems, but it wasn't always so, and it's still not transparent.

There is definitely a science to it that cannot be completely ignored.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Not tagging players with a school is the best way to evaluate. A solid athlete is a solid athlete regardless of conference.
No disagreement but brains and work ethic are very under valued in this sport.

PP might end up being great but SEC players get way to much positive publicity.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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No disagreement but brains and work ethic are very under valued in this sport.

PP might end up being great but SEC players get way to much positive publicity.
SEC players boast athleticism, speed and raw natural ability. Brains? Not their cup of tea. For RB, WR, DT, DE, OLB, CB, S... the SEC is a great source.

But for QB, OL, and ILB, I'd look at non-SEC schools first.

That's my general feeling, but there are always judgement calls to make on an individual basis.
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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Agreed. I was a huge proponent for us drafting Peterson and I preached ad naseum that I thought we should play him at Free Safety, in spite of a TON of criticism. I still remember the "YOU DON'T CHANGE THE POSITION OF A TOP 10 PICK!!!" debates. Fun times! :)
hahaha I was mainly 1 of those guys I'll admit. That said, I just wanted him to play CB first, he's really big so it wasn't likely that it worked out anyway, but if he could have pulled it off at his size he'd be a marvel. He's gonna make an outstanding FS though, but we definately took the right player in the top 10.


Jenkins has at least looked the part of an elite CB at times, he's got what it takes, but yea your right if the decline stayed we didn't have much of a choice. He's looked really good to me so far, which again, is why I wanted Aso so bad to take some of the pressure off Jenkins. Newman is great in the slot, and all 4 of our top CB's would have been great man/bump and run CB's.


Hopefully he gets his confidence going and he can take over as that #1 CB we all envisioned before and after we picked him, but I'd much rather him be a #2 guy behind a stud, but the chances of us drafting that type of CB could be awhile.
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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I just read an article this morning regarding Eli and our system. You guys sometimes don't like JG's play calling and lack of running game right? My question is do they ever write anything regarding your system or play calling?
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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What are you guys thinking about tomorrow? I'm thinking 34-28 Dallas! (hoping anyway) Romo has a big day and we get 5 sacks to slow down Brady and company just enough...
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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27-24 Dallas.....Dan Bailey wins the game with a minute left!
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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If we win tomorrow, there isn't a game left on the schedule that we can't win.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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If we win tomorrow, there isn't a game left on the schedule that we can't win.
Two words for you ... Tony Turnover.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
SEC players boast athleticism, speed and raw natural ability. Brains? Not their cup of tea. For RB, WR, DT, DE, OLB, CB, S... the SEC is a great source.

But for QB, OL, and ILB, I'd look at non-SEC schools first.

That's my general feeling, but there are always judgement calls to make on an individual basis.
Not even that ..... you need brains to play CB / Safety and DL.

Plus many of the non-SEC guys get into the Pros and with the weight training and focus, they actually get better. SEC guys just get stuck.

Kind of like the 13 year old 6'0 tall kid who dominates in 8th grade and then by the time High School is done -- he no longer dominates cuz the kids catch up to him.

The SEC ia all about football, the kids who go there breadth it and get paid for it. So they are ahead of the rest of the college kids who actually go to school. But once you get out of school and you get to focus 100% -- give me any other conference.

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Old 10-15-2011, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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I'm excited about the game tomorrow. I take our defense over theirs any day.
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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We match up pretty well, we've had two weeks to prepare, and we're healthy...but as I posted in the other thread, Brady is 30-0 in his last 30 regular season games at home. I think it's fair to say that the odds are against us. The Pats havent even lost at home since 2008.

I'll take New Engalnd this week, but it should be a good one.
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