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Old 10-19-2011, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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Well the good thing about everything you said above is that Sparano should be available this offseason...and if he is the reason Jason Garrett was good then we should get to see the same type of production that we had when he was here.
Fact is we where better with him as the de-facto OC and OL Coach and Running game Coach.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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What bothers me about cutting Harris is his youth and the fact that Ogletree should've been cut instead. Harris has more potential, and he's just a rookie. Oggs is a walking turnover or blown play.
I overlooked that, and actually forgot about him, that's how bad it's gotten. But no way we can get Harris to PS, he can probably make the STL roster right now, Buffalo? Yea, there are some teams who are trotting out PS players already at WR and we aren't even halfway through.


I figured Harris was a longterm pick anyway, at least Holley brings ST to the table, Ogletree should be a problem elsewhere.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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What bothers me about cutting Harris is his youth and the fact that Ogletree should've been cut instead. Harris has more potential, and he's just a rookie. Oggs is a walking turnover or blown play.
Ugh. I didn't even remember Ogletree. What a crime!

Time to start 2 websites GetOggsouttahere.com and GetHarrisback.com.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Fact is we where better with him as the de-facto OC and OL Coach and Running game Coach.
We had a better OL and a healthy MB3 in his prime though. We have neither a good OL or a tackle breaking back.

Which begs me to ask...

What would you guys think of drafting Trent Richardson in Round 1 and then solidifying our interior OL in FA? If we can get an NFL ready OG in Round 2, then I'd be fine with that too, but I think our secondary needs special attention somehow too.

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Old 10-19-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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We had a better OL and a healthy MB3 in his prime though. We have neither a good OL or a tackle breaking back.

Which begs me to ask...

What would you guys think of drafting Trent Richardson in Round 1 and then solidifying our interior OL in FA? If we can get an NFL ready OG in Round 2, then I'd be fine with that too, but I think our secondary needs special attention somehow too.
Im' just not a big believer in a RB high unless you think he's going to be a Peterson type guy. The NFL has shown over and over again that good runners can be had all over the draft. I think we have to go DL/DB first then OL.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Im' just not a big believer in a RB high unless you think he's going to be a Peterson type guy. The NFL has shown over and over again that good runners can be had all over the draft. I think we have to go DL/DB first then OL.
I share that opinion, that's it's possible to find RBs later in the draft. But I also think Trent Richardson is a really special RB too.

That said, in my gut, I would opt for another position in Round 1 than RB.

Knowing our offensive minded HC/acting GM Jason Garrett though, I could see him going offense at a luxury position Round 1 too. lol. Good grief, let's hope it's not true.

Round 1 - CB, S, QB

That's really the only good option I see for us. Never been a fan of OG or C being taken in Round 1 (not even with Iupati) and even though I may flirt with the idea, when alls said and done, I'm not gonna change just because our need there is high.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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I share that opinion, that's it's possible to find RBs later in the draft. But I also think Trent Richardson is a really special RB too.

That said, in my gut, I would opt for another position in Round 1 than RB.

Knowing our offensive minded HC/acting GM Jason Garrett though, I could see him going offense at a luxury position Round 1 too. lol. Good grief, let's hope it's not true.

Round 1 - CB, S, QB

That's really the only good option I see for us. Never been a fan of OG or C being taken in Round 1 (not even with Iupati) and even though I may flirt with the idea, when alls said and done, I'm not gonna change just because our need there is high.
Yeah, I don't think you go interior OL that early either. You think there's a safety worthy of being a first rounder?

I'm thinking CB or DL then in the 2nd which ever we don't get in the first or OL.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I don't think you go interior OL that early either. You think there's a safety worthy of being a first rounder?

I'm thinking CB or DL then in the 2nd which ever we don't get in the first or OL.
I hear a bunch of support for DL, but I'm not convinced it's that big of a need. Our play up front has been solid. Coleman/Hatcher/Spears/Lissemore could be upgraded, but a 1st rounder could be used better elsewhere, imo.

Safety appears pretty weak. I think the strong group is at CB and we need to nab one there. Newman will be gone and Scandrick is starting to step up as a Nickel Corner (I thought he did very well against Wes Welker in his first game back at least). Perhaps I'll mock up a draft. Those are always fun. :)
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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I'm thinking something like:

1st - Hosley, VT
2nd - Billy Winn, Boise
3rd - Ben Jones, Georgia

What do you think about that?
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Why not take an interior lineman early if you know he's gonna be great from the second he steps in? You think the Jets regret drafting Nick Mangold? The Browns with Alex Mack? The Bills with Eric Wood?

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that we should, or that there is someone that can be on that level almost immediately, i'm just saying that it's kinda silly to discount a position just because you think it doesn't have "value" in the first round, when very clearly there has been multiple instances recently where it has.

The only position i feel like that about is running back, and that's cause there's an abundance of them. I don't think Trent Richardson is that special anyway, and i sure as heck wouldn't wanna trade up to the spot where we would need to to draft him. We need to build an offensive line first and foremost. We're almost there, we just need the inside. If this off-season we add a high draft pick and a B+ free agent to the inside of the line, i'm completely okay with letting DeMarco Murray take most of the carries, as long as he can show he can protect the ball. The times he has gotten touches this season he has shown both quickness and aggressiveness in his cuts. No dancing around. I think he's gonna be pretty good for us.
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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I'm okay with an interior OL in the 2nd. I just don't think you do that in the first.
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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We had a better OL and a healthy MB3 in his prime though. We have neither a good OL or a tackle breaking back.

Which begs me to ask...

What would you guys think of drafting Trent Richardson in Round 1 and then solidifying our interior OL in FA? If we can get an NFL ready OG in Round 2, then I'd be fine with that too, but I think our secondary needs special attention somehow too.
I don't like RB anymore in the first. There are so many coming out later. So, no to Richardson.

I think, the later half of the first round typically provides great value at Guard/Center and that is where I would go. Top half is usually QB, WR, OT, OLB, Top Tier CB.

I think second round tends to provide great value for RB/CB/ILB/QB.

I think third round provides great value for DL/OT/OLB
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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I'm okay with an interior OL in the 2nd. I just don't think you do that in the first.
Why? What's the reasoning behind it? Both the Jets, Browns and Bills did it and they have All-Pro caliber guys on their interior ol. I don't get that at all, it seems completely counterintuitive to pass on someone that has a lot of potential just, because?
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Why? What's the reasoning behind it? Both the Jets, Browns and Bills did it and they have All-Pro caliber guys on their interior ol. I don't get that at all, it seems completely counterintuitive to pass on someone that has a lot of potential just, because?
Because interior OL is not a position for a difference maker. I just think first rounders should be impact players. And I'm starting to lean more towards defensive players because I think it's a bit easier to find quality offensive players later than defensive.

How often do you find shutdown corners in the 6th round?
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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I'm all for G/C in the 1st round. Our O-line is a big problem.

If a G emerges that is head and shoulder above the rest....it fits a fairly large need of ours.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Because interior OL is not a position for a difference maker. I just think first rounders should be impact players. And I'm starting to lean more towards defensive players because I think it's a bit easier to find quality offensive players later than defensive.

How often do you find shutdown corners in the 6th round?
We took Roy Williams, Terence Newman and Mike Jenkins, all in the first round and our secondary has been **** for the past decade. We took Orlando Scandrick in the 5th round and we just gave him $27 million.

This idea that certain positions aren't "impactful" is ********. They may not be glamorous, but you're damn straight they're just as important. If we had a C that was worth a ****, we wouldn't be worried week in and week out whether Brandon Spikes is gonna rape our running game up the middle, or if Tony Romo is gonna get the ball thrown in his face while he's adjusting his blocks.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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I'd much rather take care of the the OL before thinking about any running backs. OL is a huge advantage when you have a good one, and it's about time the Cowboys have a good O-line again. They really need someone strong in the interior that can move guys off the ball, and one who can be Tyron's running buddy on some counters and screens.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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We took Roy Williams, Terence Newman and Mike Jenkins, all in the first round and our secondary has been **** for the past decade. We took Orlando Scandrick in the 5th round and we just gave him $27 million.

This idea that certain positions aren't "impactful" is ********. They may not be glamorous, but you're damn straight they're just as important. If we had a C that was worth a ****, we wouldn't be worried week in and week out whether Brandon Spikes is gonna rape our running game up the middle, or if Tony Romo is gonna get the ball thrown in his face while he's adjusting his blocks.
For me, it's not that certain positions are less impactful. I've always been a proponent for spending 1st round picks on positions that are high priced in the NFL. The highest paid Guards and Centers don't make nearly the same amount as QB, DE, or CB. Smart NFL front offices will use the draft to manage their cap wisely. Since we have a need at CB and OG and we can fill CB with a guy that fits that draft value, then it's a no brainer to me. The average pay of the Top 5 highest paid OGs is $5.8M. Base salary, not including bonuses. For CB, the number is $8.1M. The draft pay scale does not take average NFL position salary into account at all. It goes totally by draft slot, and where the guy was taken. So having rookies/young players who fill traditionally high position salaries, saves you money and gives you an advantage on using your remaining cap elsewhere.

When the highest paid WR, Larry Fitzgerald is getting $20M a year and the highest paid C, Andre Gurode is/was getting $5.5M, you start to see how the picture becomes clearer.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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I'm all for G/C in the 1st round. Our O-line is a big problem.

If a G emerges that is head and shoulder above the rest....it fits a fairly large need of ours.
Yeah, but the draft isn't the only way to address those positions. Especially on the OL where it usually takes years for a player to be impactful. Unlike RB, LB, DL. These days even DB is turning out to be a position where rookies can be successful early on.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Interior Lineman that are taken in the 1st have a pretty good track record of succeeding. I was a big Iupati fan a few years back and this year I'm just as high on DeCastro, who would be good value in the late teens. G/C is the biggest need on this team right now and it's not even close, I'd even look into Konz if we are lucky enough to be picking in the mid/late 20's.

Ideally, give me:

1. DeCastro/Konz
2. Mark Barron
3. Best Corner

Scandrick has played well this year and we've locked him up for the long haul, Jenkins has also quietly put together a rebound season. Corner was an area of concern heading into this year but with the play of those 2 I think we can look elsewhere in the first 2 Rounds.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, but the draft isn't the only way to address those positions. Especially on the OL where it usually takes years for a player to be impactful. Unlike RB, LB, DL. These days even DB is turning out to be a position where rookies can be successful early on.
It's not the only way to find interior line help but it's the best way to get blue chip talent. DeCastro's a stud and could start for most NFL teams right now.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TheFinisher View Post
Interior Lineman that are taken in the 1st have a pretty good track record of succeeding. I was a big Iupati fan a few years back and this year I'm just as high on DeCastro, who would be good value in the late teens. G/C is the biggest need on this team right now and it's not even close, I'd even look into Konz if we are lucky enough to be picking in the mid/late 20's.

Ideally, give me:

1. DeCastro/Konz
2. Mark Barron
3. Best Corner

Scandrick has played well this year and we've locked him up for the long haul, Jenkins has also quietly put together a rebound season. Corner was an area of concern heading into this year but with the play of those 2 I think we can look elsewhere in the first 2 Rounds.
You mean Scandrick has played well in the 1 full game he's played in this year. IMO, there is still some concern whether his best spot is covering slots or the wideouts. You need more than just 2 good corners in the NFL and the odds are that Newman isn't coming back. Both safeties are 1 year contracts for a reason. DB is an even bigger need when you consider that Ryan doesn't have the type of DBs that are needed to effectively carry out his system. He needs guys who are sure tackling and guys who he can call on blitzes. I wouldn't say we have that right now.

Our defense has played very well, so I understand the want to fill the biggest holes with the best players, but I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory. DeCastro/Konz... both are VERY fine players and it makes the decision difficult for sure, so I won't battle your desire. But I think it's unwise to use that 1st round resource to fill the OG position.

2nd round and on sound much more ideal to fill OG/OC to me. But perhaps a deep DB class will allow us to reach for OL help in the 1st. It all depends I guess if our salary cap projections are in good shape heading into the future. We haven't bought a big chip FA in years... I hope that happens in 2012.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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It's not the only way to find interior line help but it's the best way to get blue chip talent. DeCastro's a stud and could start for most NFL teams right now.
When you have the luxury to have blue chip Guards... then you must already have a very good team. Do we?

I'd rather have a blue chip CB or S (that we haven't had since Darren Woodson) than a blue chip G.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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When you have the luxury to have blue chip Guards... then you must already have a very good team. Do we?

I'd rather have a blue chip CB or S (that we haven't had since Darren Woodson) than a blue chip G.
The problem with that is that we've reached into that well multiple times already and come out empty handed. When you have a higher chance of securing a pro-bowl caliber player at g/c, why not go there? We keep taking risks on hitting on one of those guys at the premiere skill positions and we keep coming out empty.

I'm done with playing the long-term, developmental game. We can't develop offensive linemen. Look at what happened when we took Smith, he stepped right in and is probably handily the best OL guy we have. Our defense has played very well while our offensive line has been dog ****. If we had anyone worth a crap in the interior line, we might be undefeated right now. We can't keep ignoring those issues. I want a big signing or a high draft pick on that line. Preferably both.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Our problems with the interior line has really handcuffed us, it shows in Garrett's playcalling. We have to resort to 3 step drops and a lot of underneath stuff because the line just can't be trusted, and it's wasting the talent we have at receiver.

I don't buy into the theory that taking a Guard or Center in Round 1 is bad value, especially if you've been paying attention to the offense and the problems those positions have caused us the past 2 seasons. We need to fix it if we want our offense to run properly, until then we're going to be forced to run a conservative scheme and we'll be on here every Monday wondering why Dez or Miles aren't being used properly.
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