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Old 12-01-2011, 10:05 PM    (permalink
E-Man
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If we go on a 2 game skid, we know who to blame. Leroy shall be BANNED!
We'll also know the true identity of Leroyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Jenkins.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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If we go on a 2 game skid, we know who to blame. Leroy shall be BANNED!
I may dig a hole in Dallas and bury myself if that happens.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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Dez is way over hyped and he is not developing as fast as you would want. So for all the love given here, he is not even a top 10 WR in the NFL when healthy. Austin is a top WR when healthy.
I really get annoyed when I hear some of our "fans" make comments like this. Have you missed all of his TD's this year by some chance? He'll likely surpass Andre Johnson's career high in receiving TD's in a season with 4 more. For WR's(excluding just the TE's Gronkowski & Jimmy Graham) that makes him in the top 10 right now. Could finish even higher.


Did you know guys like Roddy White, Hakeem Nicks, Dwayne Bowe, and Jeremy Maclin have 4? Keep in mind Maclin and Nicks have been in the league a year longer in terms of development for a young player.


He just turned 23 years old 1 month ago and is still younger then somebody like AJ Green. But because he's not churning out 1300 yard seasons out the gate and scoring TD's at the rate Calvin Johnson is somehow he's a failure or "not developing fast enough".


Dez isn't even as close to being as good as he's going to get, he's just destroying people on ability alone. Of course he has a ton of things to work on and still does things wrong, he's a young player and makes mistakes. He can run routes better, sure.


But that will come in time, but everybody wants to be so impatient which in turns means to them "he's developing too slowly". For who? WR's who can consistently score 8+ TD's a season don't grow on trees, in fact it's limited for the guys that have even hit that mark before let alone have a guy who is consistently a threat there.


Dez will be a dominant WR in this league, it hasn't happened yet but you can't knock him for the production at all. Not to say you were just trashing the guy, but there's a reason people talk him up. Were only scraping the surface of what he is as a player. Honestly how many times has a WR in his 2nd year in the league at 23 years old been considered a top 10 WR in the entire league? Why would we even use that as the basis to judge him?
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:15 AM    (permalink
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For the argument being made. Right now Miles > Dez and it isn't close. Next season we're going to be a nightmare for DCs provided Dez continues to progress, Miles is healthy, and our offensive line stops leaking like a sieve.

The original idea of trading Miles because Dez might become a #1 is silly anyhow.

[hyperbole] Victor Butler might develop into a capable OLB so lets trade Ware. [/hyperbole]

It's a careful balance between current ability and potential abilities.
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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For the argument being made. Right now Miles > Dez and it isn't close. Next season we're going to be a nightmare for DCs provided Dez continues to progress, Miles is healthy, and our offensive line stops leaking like a sieve.

The original idea of trading Miles because Dez might become a #1 is silly anyhow.

[hyperbole] Victor Butler might develop into a capable OLB so lets trade Ware. [/hyperbole]

It's a careful balance between current ability and potential abilities.
I agree with this, and I also want to add that you don't get rid of good players in their prime. You can't build a good contender that way. Austin is 27 and very good. If some injuries don't happen between either he or Romo in the past 2 years he's looking at some monster seasons. There is a bonafide playmaker in that guy, and if they got rid of him down the line people will be talking about how dumb Jerry is for trading a guy like that.

I'll also go back to the top point that you can't build a great team by getting rid of quality guys in their prime. If the contract is an issue that's one thing, but he made the bulk of his guaranteed money last year when there was no cap. Hell his salary that counts against the cap next year will be a whopping $1.15 million with it being $6.732 and $5.5 the two years following that, respectively. If there is one thing they did right was that they did his contract perfectly. They gave him a good amount of money guaranteed and made sure that it happened early when there was no cap hits to be had. What's the point of trading him again?
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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I agree with this, and I also want to add that you don't get rid of good players in their prime. You can't build a good contender that way. Austin is 27 and very good. If some injuries don't happen between either he or Romo in the past 2 years he's looking at some monster seasons. There is a bonafide playmaker in that guy, and if they got rid of him down the line people will be talking about how dumb Jerry is for trading a guy like that.

I'll also go back to the top point that you can't build a great team by getting rid of quality guys in their prime. If the contract is an issue that's one thing, but he made the bulk of his guaranteed money last year when there was no cap. Hell his salary that counts against the cap next year will be a whopping $1.15 million with it being $6.732 and $5.5 the two years following that, respectively. If there is one thing they did right was that they did his contract perfectly. They gave him a good amount of money guaranteed and made sure that it happened early when there was no cap hits to be had. What's the point of trading him again?
It's a draft forum :) Prospects are overrated compared to their already established counterparts :D

Does anyone else get a twisted sort of satisfaction watching the 'dream team' not only lose but do so in a way so dysfunctional and effortless?
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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It's a draft forum :) Prospects are overrated compared to their already established counterparts :D

Does anyone else get a twisted sort of satisfaction watching the 'dream team' not only lose but do so in a way so dysfunctional and effortless?
I love it and I live in Eagles country. So it's great hearing fans cry.
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Our division is really just a mess in general. Best thing we can hope for is Reid and Coughlin return. Shanny too. Last night was amazing fun to enjoy watching another team collapse instead of your own.


Gotta love those off-season paper champions.
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Vote for our Cowboys:

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/ballot
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Not a huge surprise to anyone, but we aren't really seeing a huge development from Dez because he's dumber than a sack of rocks. It's widely known that he doesn't play as often, and that Robinson gets the reps in the 1 WR set packages because Dez doesn't know wtf he's doing. He hasn't been able to learn the playbook.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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It's a draft forum :) Prospects are overrated compared to their already established counterparts :D

Does anyone else get a twisted sort of satisfaction watching the 'dream team' not only lose but do so in a way so dysfunctional and effortless?
Anytime the Eagles suffer it makes me happy, but after all that offseason hype it's so much better. Every year some team makes these "big" offseason moves that gets a ton of people on their bandwagon. Every year it fails, and in many cases very miserably. It was nice seeing this happen with the Redskins so many times. Now it's gone on over to the Eagles. lol
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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I really get annoyed when I hear some of our "fans" make comments like this. Have you missed all of his TD's this year by some chance? .................
Funny because I get annoyed over all the unwarranted hyperbole surrounding a WR who disappears 2/3 quarters per game.

Personally, most "fans" fall in love with guys for whatever reason when they are high draft picks and these "fans" never get off the bandwagon. Or maybe they look good in tights so that explains it.

These same "fans" nick pick every mistake and flaw a player like Austin has but the same "fans" ignore their favorites boys problems and excuse everything away.

Bottom line for us "fans" -- Austin is better than Dez. Period.

Dez might/could/might be/has a chance to be better. But he has to learn to be a route runner and put effort in every play .... like Austin. Guys need to get off the hang up over where a guy is drafted and judge based on what players actually do and how it fits into scheme.

Coryell Offense needs crisp route runners to succeed.

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Old 12-03-2011, 05:34 AM    (permalink
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As I said. Austin is our best WR. Dez has an uncapped ceiling and could develop into one of the best WRs in the league. Don't question his knowledge of the playbook it's been dismissed by both Romo and Garrett this season. Same with the popular "he's out of shape" report. It just isn't true. The playbook has a lot of reads and Romo/Dez aren't making the same one. Give Dez a full off-season and it should be a much different story.

Any argument that Dez > Miles is silly this season and it's not really a fair argument pinning a rookie versus a seasoned WR with A LOT of experience with Romo. Dez has made plays that show he will get there and some of his catches are unbelievable. Once he's fully comfortable and has a repoir with Romo/Garrett we should get our popcorn ready because we haven't had a physical specimen like him in... a while.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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As I said. Austin is our best WR. Dez has an uncapped ceiling and could develop into one of the best WRs in the league. Don't question his knowledge of the playbook it's been dismissed by both Romo and Garrett this season. Same with the popular "he's out of shape" report. It just isn't true. The playbook has a lot of reads and Romo/Dez aren't making the same one. Give Dez a full off-season and it should be a much different story.

Any argument that Dez > Miles is silly this season and it's not really a fair argument pinning a rookie versus a seasoned WR with A LOT of experience with Romo. Dez has made plays that show he will get there and some of his catches are unbelievable. Once he's fully comfortable and has a repoir with Romo/Garrett we should get our popcorn ready because we haven't had a physical specimen like him in... a while.
May not agree with all you points yet a reasonable post with lots to agree on.
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Funny because I get annoyed over all the unwarranted hyperbole surrounding a WR who disappears 2/3 quarters per game.

Personally, most "fans" fall in love with guys for whatever reason when they are high draft picks and these "fans" never get off the bandwagon. Or maybe they look good in tights so that explains it.

These same "fans" nick pick every mistake and flaw a player like Austin has but the same "fans" ignore their favorites boys problems and excuse everything away.

Bottom line for us "fans" -- Austin is better than Dez. Period.

Dez might/could/might be/has a chance to be better. But he has to learn to be a route runner and put effort in every play .... like Austin. Guys need to get off the hang up over where a guy is drafted and judge based on what players actually do and how it fits into scheme.

Coryell Offense needs crisp route runners to succeed.


My problem is your talking like this conversation is about Isiah Stanback, or Martellus Bennett. Those guys were all potential and upside, but what have they shown for it? Dez has shown an abundance of play-making ability on the field at 22 years old.


Alot of what your saying doesn't even make sense.


Yea, Dez just looks good in tights though. Maybe 1 of these days he'll do something in a real game for us to get excited about /sarcasm.


The problem is you need to stop expecting 22 year old players to know EVERYTHING possible there is to learn about the game and do EVERYTHING like Jerry Rice or Torry Holt, if not he's stupid, developing slow, or just looks good in tights.


For as much as you talk up Austin now, how long did it take for him to get where he is today? Or have you forgotten that already? I seem to remember a ton of people being really high on Austin too. Guess he was a bum because he didn't have 1500 yards in his first or 2nd season. What a bum.

This is such a silly argument I don't even know why I'm wasting my time.


Of course Austin is better. He's 27, in the middle of his prime(which Dez has yet to get to), and in case you forgot Austin broke out in year 4. Here we are talking about Dez in year 2. Austin had 300 receiving yards by the time his 4th season started.


But yep. Dez just looks good in shorts. That's why all the WR's I listed are still trying to catch him in TD totals.
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Old 12-03-2011, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Let's stop arguing about the WR's. It's probably one of our least concerns on the team right now.

To the Cardinals game. As long as we stop the run, double cover Fitz, and tackle PP on punt returns, I don't expect much trouble. This needs to be a tune up game for the stretch run if we want to go anywhere.
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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the last bit made me laugh. So you wanna replace ogletree with a starting quality receiver??? I think we would all like that
I'd like us not to throw guys out there who aren't NFL caliber. You act like it's impossible to have 4 WRs who can get open and catch the ball.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Taylor Price released. We worked him out pre-draft and he has the athleticism. Wonder if we'll take a look.
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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My problem is your talking like this conversation is about Isiah Stanback, or Martellus Bennett. Those guys were all potential and upside, but what have they shown for it? Dez has shown an abundance of play-making ability on the field at 22 years old.


Alot of what your saying doesn't even make sense.


Yea, Dez just looks good in tights though. Maybe 1 of these days he'll do something in a real game for us to get excited about /sarcasm.


The problem is you need to stop expecting 22 year old players to know EVERYTHING possible there is to learn about the game and do EVERYTHING like Jerry Rice or Torry Holt, if not he's stupid, developing slow, or just looks good in tights.


For as much as you talk up Austin now, how long did it take for him to get where he is today? Or have you forgotten that already? I seem to remember a ton of people being really high on Austin too. Guess he was a bum because he didn't have 1500 yards in his first or 2nd season. What a bum.

This is such a silly argument I don't even know why I'm wasting my time.


Of course Austin is better. He's 27, in the middle of his prime(which Dez has yet to get to), and in case you forgot Austin broke out in year 4. Here we are talking about Dez in year 2. Austin had 300 receiving yards by the time his 4th season started.


But yep. Dez just looks good in shorts. That's why all the WR's I listed are still trying to catch him in TD totals.
He has two years in the NFL and still has not learned how to play the game properly.

Worse yet, he is being given the opportunity to do so.

Wade and Jerrah never gave Austin the opportunity. Remember the Roy (LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!) Williams trade and all the hand wringing about letting TO go????

Austin needed injuries to get the shot he always deserved. Hell, I knew the kid was a stud in the making during BP's last year. Did not take a genius to see what he could do physically on the field. But he played Div 9 and was an UDFA, so no one gave him credit when he did perform.

If Austin had gotten similar opportunities, he would have had a 1,500 yards season by year 3. Sadly, we had a Coach who was always looking to Jerrah to tell him who to play b/c he had no cojones or brains or ability to project player's development.

So, I expect a lot more from a first round pick who everyone goes over board on and who has relatively under performed given the opportunities given and the fact he played div-1.

Last edited by yanksknicks : 12-03-2011 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yanksknicks View Post
He has two years in the NFL and still has not learned how to play the game properly.

Worse yet, he is being given the opportunity to do so.

Wade and Jerrah never gave Austin the opportunity. Remember the Roy (LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!) Williams trade and all the hand wringing about letting TO go????

Austin needed injuries to get the shot he always deserved. Hell, I knew the kid was a stud in the making during BP's last year. Did not take a genius to see what he could do physically on the field. But he played Div 9 and was an UDFA, so no one gave him credit when he did perform.

If Austin had gotten similar opportunities, he would have had a 1,500 yards season by year 3. Sadly, we had a Coach who was always looking to Jerrah to tell him who to play b/c he had no cojones or brains or ability to project player's development.

So, I expect a lot more from a first round pick who everyone goes over board on and who has relatively under performed given the opportunities given and the fact he played div-1.



Sounds like Barbie. Remember that man crush?
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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So, I expect a lot more from a first round pick who everyone goes over board on and who has relatively under performed given the opportunities given and the fact he played div-1.

So basically what your saying is because he doesn't have as many TD's as Calvin Johnson has right now, and isn't beating Wes Welker in catches he's under performed? Got it. Did you pay attention to how good the WR class was the year before Dez?


Maclin, Nicks, Crabtree, Britt, Harvin, Wallace, guys all over the place. Only Wallace is out performing Dez. Does that mean the rest of those guys are trash? Nicks and Maclin are no good? Especially since they have been in the league longer.


Or is Dez held to a different standard because Jerrah drafted him and that gives you an excuse to trash Jerrah for another thing which never gets old to you?


Did it make any difference that it took Roddy White 3 years to become elite? Did it make any difference Andre Johnson still has yet to hit 10 TD's in a season?


Nope. Jerrah didn't draft those guys though, so let's trash the 1 he did draft. Because as we both know Dez has been completely useless here and hasn't contributed 1 bit to this team.


Facts are because in his 2nd season at 22 years old that because he's not an all pro and tearing the league a new asshole he's a huge disappointment. Got it. Conversation over and I don't even know why I let myself get sucked in to such a lame pov.
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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Whoa... talk about overreaction here. LOL. I guess LL and I will stay in the minority that Dez is a special player. I'll remember this. Especially with Metsox and Bob.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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[/b]

Sounds like Barbie. Remember that man crush?
What i remember is Jerry and Idiot Fat Dork drafting Anthony Spencer within weeks of Carpenter being the best Defensive Player on the field in the Seattle Playoff loss. I also remember fans here celebrating. I remember the celebration of Roy Williams (both of them).

But my opinion is, and always has been, Carp was a 4-3 SOLB. That has not changed. I judge based on the field, not based on how sexy they look in spandex shorts running wind sprints or the occasional big play which masks the 15 other horrid plays.

So Dez is a talent, no doubt, but not a football player of any note IMHO. Produce, every quarter of every game. Then talk.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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What are everyone's keys for the game today?
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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What i remember is Jerry and Idiot Fat Dork drafting Anthony Spencer within weeks of Carpenter being the best Defensive Player on the field in the Seattle Playoff loss. I also remember fans here celebrating. I remember the celebration of Roy Williams (both of them).

But my opinion is, and always has been, Carp was a 4-3 SOLB. That has not changed. I judge based on the field, not based on how sexy they look in spandex shorts running wind sprints or the occasional big play which masks the 15 other horrid plays.

So Dez is a talent, no doubt, but not a football player of any note IMHO. Produce, every quarter of every game. Then talk.
Not a football player of any note? You serious?

He's not having as great of a year as we all expected, but he's not a scrub at all. That's just being unfair. You're being too extreme in your criticism. Way too extreme.

Even Jerry Rice didn't produce every quarter of every game. That's ridiculous.
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