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Old 01-07-2012, 03:18 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Dallas is supposedly in the mix for BOTH Sparano and "I got punched by the Tuna" Haley.



The fact we are targeting established guys makes me wonder if our game-plans will become more balanced :D
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Dallas is supposedly in the mix for BOTH Sparano and "I got punched by the Tuna" Haley.



The fact we are targeting established guys makes me wonder if our game-plans will become more balanced :D
Well according to that report by Calvin Watkins, we are keeping Houck. So if that happens... I doubt it.

We'll see. I hope you are right and he is wrong.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Well according to that report by Calvin Watkins, we are keeping Houck. So if that happens... I doubt it.

We'll see. I hope you are right and he is wrong.
Whenever I see "by Calvin Watkins" I skip to the next article. He wildly guesses and his "sources" are only limited by his imagination.

I find Adam Schefter as one of the most reliable and he reported...

Quote:
AdamSchefter Adam Schefter
"Tony Sparano and Todd Haley have discussed joining forces in 2012 with Sparano coaching run game, Haley pass game, as they did in Dallas."
5 hours ago
Not only that but Watkins is a total douche. He baited, baited, insulted, and baited his way into almost getting beaten by Ratliff.

Last edited by Trogdor : 01-07-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Dude, that quote from Schefter just means they would do it like they did in Dallas during the early 2000's. Not that they are coming back here to do it.

Garrett isn't going to give away that much offensive control. *Sigh* I really wanted Sparano.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Within the last 5 minutes J.J. Watt just reminded me why I wanted him so bad last year.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Gone: Bradie James, Keith Brooking, Terrence Newman, Allan Ball, Abe Elam

Free Agents:
OG Ben Grubbs- Holland and Dockery are not starters
LB D'Qwell Jackson-tackling machine and has played for Ryan in Cleveland
FS Michael Griffin- Should improve our coverage
NT Aubrayo Franklin- Stuffs the run and Ratliff can move to DE

Resign: Dan Bailey, Anthony Spencer, Laurent Robinson, Tony Fiametta

Draft:
1:CB Dre Kirkpatrick- size and experience,

2: DT Jared Crick- if he didnt get injured he would be a 1st round pick

3: C Ben Jones- battled tested in the SEC,

4: CB Cliff Harris-troubled player but a great return guy and depth

Best Player available after that
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:27 AM    (permalink
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Blah, i don't want anything to do with Dre Kirkpatrick. Relies too much on physicality and probably doesn't have the speed to stay manned with the WRs in our division. I love the FA plan though.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogeydown View Post
Gone: Bradie James, Keith Brooking, Terrence Newman, Allan Ball, Abe Elam

Free Agents:
OG Ben Grubbs- Holland and Dockery are not starters
LB D'Qwell Jackson-tackling machine and has played for Ryan in Cleveland
FS Michael Griffin- Should improve our coverage
NT Aubrayo Franklin- Stuffs the run and Ratliff can move to DE

Resign: Dan Bailey, Anthony Spencer, Laurent Robinson, Tony Fiametta

Draft:
1:CB Dre Kirkpatrick- size and experience,

2: DT Jared Crick- if he didnt get injured he would be a 1st round pick

3: C Ben Jones- battled tested in the SEC,

4: CB Cliff Harris-troubled player but a great return guy and depth

Best Player available after that
This would be awesome. I didn't think about Franklin, but he'd be a good fit so Ratliff to move out to DE and form an even better rotation there. Can't say I love or hate Kirkpatrick, but I'd be fine with the pick since corner will be a big need with Newman presumably gone.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by boogeydown View Post
Gone: Bradie James, Keith Brooking, Terrence Newman, Allan Ball, Abe Elam

Free Agents:
OG Ben Grubbs- Holland and Dockery are not starters
LB D'Qwell Jackson-tackling machine and has played for Ryan in Cleveland
FS Michael Griffin- Should improve our coverage
NT Aubrayo Franklin- Stuffs the run and Ratliff can move to DE

Resign: Dan Bailey, Anthony Spencer, Laurent Robinson, Tony Fiametta

Draft:
1:CB Dre Kirkpatrick- size and experience,

2: DT Jared Crick- if he didnt get injured he would be a 1st round pick

3: C Ben Jones- battled tested in the SEC,

4: CB Cliff Harris-troubled player but a great return guy and depth

Best Player available after that
nice fa list but so unlikely someone here brought up franklin last year. take credit.

not sure about draft. too much sec.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Blah, i don't want anything to do with Dre Kirkpatrick. Relies too much on physicality and probably doesn't have the speed to stay manned with the WRs in our division. I love the FA plan though.
I wouldn't be surprised if some teams take a look at Kirkpatrick at safety similar to how teams looked at antrel rolle coming out. I've already seen him ranked as the top safety by some draft enthusiasts. Just some food for thought...if he were available at 14 it'll probably be because he didn't run a sub 4.55 in which case there will be a few teams looking to see if his game translates to safety in the NFL.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Mike Smith is making Garrett look servicable with some of these gameday decisions. 2 QB sneaks on 4th and 1? Didn't they watch last week?
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Posted the main piece in the draft thread but we signed Justin Taplin-Ross (UDFA we were HEAVILY interested in prior to the season but couldn't pass a medical).

Since it was from surgery it's not a continuing concern and having a hard working, tough, 4.5 speed safety to have as a project isn't a bad idea :D
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Posted the main piece in the draft thread but we signed Justin Taplin-Ross (UDFA we were HEAVILY interested in prior to the season but couldn't pass a medical).

Since it was from surgery it's not a continuing concern and having a hard working, tough, 4.5 speed safety to have as a project isn't a bad idea :D
These are the HOF type signings Jerry is famous for.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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These are the HOF type signings Jerry is famous for.
You're are absolutely right. With all of the perennial HOF'ers sitting around the league jobless we went out and signed an UDFA.

Successful troll is successful.

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Old 01-08-2012, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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anyone interested in the possibility of bringing Shaun Rogers in for depth at NT if the price is right? Has some history with Ryan when they were both with Cleveland and would provide a big body to defend against the run.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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CDCB this may explain your curse theory:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/story/_/id...weatshop-labor






I'm now convinced Jerry Jones is the Anti-Christ.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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CDCB this may explain your curse theory:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/story/_/id...weatshop-labor






I'm now convinced Jerry Jones is the Anti-Christ.
I came across that on another site. Hopefully they stop that now and we are no longer cursed!

Hey, one can only hope.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by boogeydown View Post
Gone: Bradie James, Keith Brooking, Terrence Newman, Allan Ball, Abe Elam

Free Agents:
OG Ben Grubbs- Holland and Dockery are not starters
LB D'Qwell Jackson-tackling machine and has played for Ryan in Cleveland
FS Michael Griffin- Should improve our coverage
NT Aubrayo Franklin- Stuffs the run and Ratliff can move to DE

Resign: Dan Bailey, Anthony Spencer, Laurent Robinson, Tony Fiametta

Draft:
1:CB Dre Kirkpatrick- size and experience,

2: DT Jared Crick- if he didnt get injured he would be a 1st round pick

3: C Ben Jones- battled tested in the SEC,

4: CB Cliff Harris-troubled player but a great return guy and depth

Best Player available after that
I like the way you think here, but I'm not sold on Spencer. He is JAG. I also would like to make a run at one of the FA CBs - Finnegan.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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You're are absolutely right. With all of the perennial HOF'ers sitting around the league jobless we went out and signed an UDFA.

Successful troll is successful.

So you come here pumping an UDFA signing and I am a troll?
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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..... I'm now convinced Jerry Jones is the Anti-Christ.
I have known it for years.
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Nice piece by Bob Sturm that shows just how different our philosophy has been from the Giants when it comes to applying resources to the defensive front.

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/01...88&feedID=4680

This was the most eye opening part of the article for me:

Quote:
Let's compare the two organizations asset distribution to the defensive front to understand why one team seems to succeed because of its defensive line and the other seems to succeed often in spite of it. Given the difference in scheme, we will try to compare apples to apples and allow OLBs from Dallas if they are primary edge rushers and leave middle linebackers out of the discussion for both sides.

First, the Dallas Cowboys use of premium picks since 2003 on the defensive front:

Year Pick Name
2005 1/11 DeMarcus Ware
2005 1/20 Marcus Spears
2005 4/132 Chris Canty
2006 3/92 Jason Hatcher
2007 1/26 Anthony Spencer


Now, the same chart for the New York Giants:

Year Pick Name
2003 1/25 William Joseph
2003 2/56 Osi Umenyiora
2005 3/74 Justin Tuck
2006 1/32 Mathias Kiwanuka
2006 4/124 Barry Cofield
2007 3/81 Jay Alford
2010 1/15 Jason Pierre Paul
2010 2/46 Linval Joseph
2011 2/52 Marvin Austin


That is a staggering difference in allocation of assets into a defensive front. Ware is the great equalizer in many regards, as the Cowboys have still accumulated an amazing number of sacks given this discrepancy, and finding Jay Ratliff late has been a great help. But, the Giants wanted to build this generation around their defensive front - like the organization did in the 1980's and 1990's with Bill Parcells and GM George Young. In fact, now, given the use of so many draft picks, it makes you ponder their free agency objective as well.

New York Giants Free Agent DL Signings:

Year Contract Name
2009 6/$42m Chris Canty
2009 4/$16m Rocky Bernard


That's right. After spending so many high, premium picks on DL, they also decided before 2009 that they wanted to find even more strength in numbers with the free agent targets of 2 more players - one a reasonably high pick from Dallas.

Meanwhile, the Cowboys countered with this:

Year Contract Name
2005 5/$21.5m Jason Ferguson
2009 4/$18m Igor Olshansky
2011 2/$3.5m Kenyon Coleman

Here again we see that the Cowboys use of free agency goes back to 2005 when Ferguson, Ware, Canty, and Spears were all added in the same spring when Parcells was ready to fully commit to the 3-4. Since then, the draft and free agency have almost completely ignored the front or looked for red-tag discounts.

Jerry Jones and Wade Phillips bragged about finding Igor Olshansky as a perfect replacement for Chris Canty. Nobody would argue that Canty's New York offer would have been mocked had Dallas decided to match it. And it is likely nobody would argue that Canty is entirely overpaid. However, Olshansky made almost no impact whatsoever during his stay in Dallas, and frankly, Coleman's year was largely difficult to detect as well.

Observers often suggest that the DE spot in the 3-4 is not designed for play-making, but in Houston (JJ Watt and Antonio Smith), San Francisco (Justin Smith), Green Bay (Cullen Jenkins for several seasons) and New England (Richard Seymour for years) would beg to differ. Houston is especially notable given that Wade Phillips is asking his DEs to do what he asked Olshansky and Spears to do here - but with largely different results.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Unless elite physical talent or QB, always go big man over small man all things being equal.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yanksknicks View Post
Unless elite physical talent or QB, always go big man over small man all things being equal.
Hitting on those picks is obviously just as important. The Giants scouting department has hit at a fairly high rate when you look at that list, while we whiffed big time on 2 of our 1st Rounders. Not good when you only spend 5 premium picks over the course of 9 drafts.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TheFinisher View Post
Nice piece by Bob Sturm that shows just how different our philosophy has been from the Giants when it comes to applying resources to the defensive front.

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/01...88&feedID=4680

This was the most eye opening part of the article for me:
DL are more valuable in the 4-3 than in the 3-4. So it's not surprising at all. When we first transitioned to the 3-4, it was not nearly as popular as it has become. So comparing the way they used their resources to the way we used ours is an unbalanced argument. It used to be that 3-4 DL were tweeners that fell in the draft, or were cheaper to get. ie. Jay Ratliff, Chris Canty, Kenyon Coleman.

They weren't the big named glamour players of the league puffed up by fancy stats. Those are what 4-3 DL were... stat hogs... but 3-4 guys went under the radar because they were the unsung heros who could have a 1.5 sack season and still been very successful at doing their job right. So in terms of drafting, 4-3 teams always invested more highly into DL than 3-4 teams did.

But nowdays, there are more and more 3-4 based defenses and now teams and more aggressively pursuing these guys. They have gotten extreme attention and teams have ruined the fun of being a 3-4 team. Now everybody seems to be in the act and trying to scoop up these tweeners or forcefully fit them into their schemes.

When the Chiefs took Tyson Jackson that became the poster child for the new age way teams look at 3-4 DL. It completely sucks for us now, but that's the way it is.

So back to the NYG vs DAL philosophy of using premium picks on DL... it's just a mistake to compare the two teams in that regard. History showed that 3-4 DL could be had later in the draft, and that's part of why we moved in that direction. Things have since changed but to compare historical philosophy differences is painting a flawed picture.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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depressing.
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