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Old 01-10-2012, 03:33 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I don't think you guys should look at exclusively 3-4 talent. I've been saying it for 2 years now, I think the Cowboys should transition to a 4-3 defense.

RE: Ware
UT: Ratliff - his best natural position
NT: Spears - his best natural position
LE: Sign or draft someone

WILL: Carter
MIKE: Lee
SAM: draft someone/Ware on joker packages

Why can't it work? I think it's a better fit for your talent.
It's not like we don't use 4 man fronts now.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, but the 4-man fronts we use are usually nickel packages. I wouldn't mind running 4-3 fronts primarily, against the run. Plus it would give Lee and Carter a chance to play in their natural spots.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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I honestly wouldn't mind going back to the 4-3. Not sure how a change in philosophy would impact our team, but i'd be down. We could even re-sign Spencer and keep him at LE where he would be a very solid to above average player. Pipe dream i know, it'll never happen, but it would be nice.
We wouldn't re-sign Spencer if we were to make the switch. He's strictly a 34 backer and would be out of place, we would just use that money to spend on a real 43 End.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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What do you think makes him strictly a 3-4 backer?
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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What do you think makes him strictly a 3-4 backer?
He's not nearly athletic enough to play as a true linebacker in a 43, he'd be a liability in pass coverage and doesn't have the sideline to sideline speed on outside runs.

And he's just not big enough to play with his hand on the ground as a 7 full time, Right Tackles would eat him alive.

He just doesn't belong in that defense, hence "tweener".

If he were under contract and it was a situation where you were stuck with him in a transition period then I guess you could experiment to see if he can somehow do it, but why would you take the risk and re-sign that expiring contract?

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Old 01-10-2012, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I don't think you guys should look at exclusively 3-4 talent. I've been saying it for 2 years now, I think the Cowboys should transition to a 4-3 defense.

RE: Ware
UT: Ratliff - his best natural position
NT: Spears - his best natural position
LE: Sign or draft someone

WILL: Carter
MIKE: Lee
SAM: draft someone/Ware on joker packages

Why can't it work? I think it's a better fit for your talent.
Spears for NT! Never gonna work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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I just can't subscribe to the idea that you can get by in this league without good secondary play. I can't imagine the nightmare we would've seen on defense if we faced Green Bay or New Orleans. Had we had them on our schedule I think the need would've seemed MUCH MORE obvious.
I know impulse reaction wants to blame the secondary, and rightfully so because Newman is pathetic, but pass rush is definitely more important. With the rules that DB's have to abide by now, playing CB is almost impossible, and safeties can't intimidate guys over the middle because even a patty-cake hit is a flag now because Roger Goodell is a p*ssy.

I don't care if you have 4 Darelle Revis' and Ed Reed in his prime at both safety spots, if you give someone like Brees or Rodgers 5+ seconds to throw, you're gonna get completely obliterated. We definitely need upgrades in the secondary, but I still think if a QB has time it really doesn't matter.

Look at our game vs. the patriots for instance. In that game we somehow (act of God?) got consistent pressure on Brady, and he was uncomfortable all game, and we held them to 13 points. Then on the final drive, we played pretty much prevent, he had all day, and we know what happened next.

I don't care who you are, even if you're Deion or Revis, if QB's like Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Eli, etc. have all day, you might as well just concede defeat and not show up.

That is another reason why I want DeCastro in round one. Romo is a short QB and pressure in his face is what bothers him the most. There is no reason we should be on par with those offenses if we can just get better interior OL play. With DeMarco running the ball and our WR's and TE's we should be unstoppable.

Look at the second Giants game. It shows you perfectly how pressure is more important than coverage. In the first game Romo had time besides a few sacks by JPP and tuck, and he threw 4 TD's and no picks. In the second game he was under duress all game, and we know the outcome.

In today's game with the rules and just the flat out increased athletic skill on offense, DB's are at a serious disadvantage. If you can't get to the QB, you're done.

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Originally Posted by BigBlueDefense
I don't think you guys should look at exclusively 3-4 talent. I've been saying it for 2 years now, I think the Cowboys should transition to a 4-3 defense.

RE: Ware
UT: Ratliff - his best natural position
NT: Spears - his best natural position
LE: Sign or draft someone

WILL: Carter
MIKE: Lee
SAM: draft someone/Ware on joker packages

Why can't it work? I think it's a better fit for your talent.
With Ratliff moving to defensive end and us finally searching for a true NT (hopefully) I don't think we are going to move to a 4-3. Besides, DeMarcus is turning 30. Spears is is turning 29. Ratliff is turning 31. They aren't spring chickens anymore. This team is in a win now mode if we get a few more pieces. The team is also young in some spots, but switching defensive schemes probably isn't the best idea if you want to win now. Also, Rob Ryan is staying and is a 3-4 coach. I agree that some changes need to be made on defense because we have been the same unit and have been picked apart in the same ways for the past 5 years (terrible ILB and S coverage over the middle, quick hitters on our CB's cause they play 52352352 yards off, etc.) Hopefully better players at ILB and a new DB coach changes that.

I really think this team just needs some better coaching at certain positions (DB- later campo don't let the door hit you on the way out, and OL- hopefully we get someone to replace Houck, preferably sparano) and some upgrades on defense to being a perennial contender. Romo is turning 32 so we will a future QB in the next 3-5 years, but other than that our team looks good for the future. Like Garrett said, players like Dez, Lee, Tyron Smith, DeMarco etc. are good cornerstones for the future with good veterans who are still in their prime (Ware, Ratliff, Romo, Witten, Miles, Hatcher, Free, and hopefully Mike Jenkins).

This year was the transitional year, now it's time to win.

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Old 01-10-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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What DL in the NFL can be successful with our secondary? I would LOVE to know that answer.

You keep kidding yourselves that our secondary is sufficient. I'm tired of it quite frankly. The problem isn't JUST Newman. Unbelievable.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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What DL in the NFL can be successful with our secondary? I would LOVE to know that answer.

You keep kidding yourselves that our secondary is sufficient. I'm tired of it quite frankly. The problem isn't JUST Newman. Unbelievable.
I'm a realist with the situation. Scandrick and Sensabaugh just got 5 year deals, so there is no point in crying over spilt milk dude. Mike Jenkins actually played great when he wasn't hurt. He was pretty much shut down. Upgrades over newman and elam, along with a new secondary coach and better pass rush would make us more than satisfactory in the secondary.

If those things happen and we still lose, secondary won't be the issue.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I'm a realist with the situation. Scandrick and Sensabaugh just got 5 year deals, so there is no point in crying over spilt milk dude. Mike Jenkins actually played great when he wasn't hurt. He was pretty much shut down. Upgrades over newman and elam, along with a new secondary coach and better pass rush would make us more than satisfactory in the secondary.

If those things happen and we still lose, secondary won't be the issue.
Scandrick and Sensy getting new deals doesn't fix their problems. You wanna be real, then let's be real. They ARE NOT that great. They are both JAGs at best. What that means is that we need better players around them so we don't ask them to do more than they are capable of.

Face another reality. Mike Jenkins is unreliable. He's more like good depth at this point. If he shows up fine, but don't expect him to. We can't go into the season thinking he's a sure thing. Right now he's no better than a #3 CB, and quite frankly, I'd be happy if that's all he ever became.

I hate how the reaction is that just because Sensy got an extension that all of a sudden we have Safety solved. ...and because Elam didn't get one, well, we have problems to address there. Elam played better than Sensy all year! ...and that's not saying much because NEITHER lit the world on fire!

Pray for the best secondary coach in the world because no one can fix our lack of talent there.

Luckily, I think upgrading Newman is easy.... Just get rid of him. Oh and hope that this organization doesn't give Alan Ball a new extension. LOLZ.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I know impulse reaction wants to blame the secondary, and rightfully so because Newman is pathetic, but pass rush is definitely more important. With the rules that DB's have to abide by now, playing CB is almost impossible, and safeties can't intimidate guys over the middle because even a patty-cake hit is a flag now because Roger Goodell is a p*ssy.
Impulse reaction? HA! Our secondary is flat-out awful dude, or have you not seen any games this year? Playing cornerback is impossible? What the hell are you talking about? There are plenty of corners around the league that hold it down every Sunday, it's just that none of them reside in Dallas.

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I don't care if you have 4 Darelle Revis' and Ed Reed in his prime at both safety spots, if you give someone like Brees or Rodgers 5+ seconds to throw, you're gonna get completely obliterated. We definitely need upgrades in the secondary, but I still think if a QB has time it really doesn't matter.
I take it you've never seen the Jets or Revis play in the past 4 seasons? Because this is a pretty stupid statement.

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I don't care who you are, even if you're Deion or Revis, if QB's like Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Eli, etc. have all day, you might as well just concede defeat and not show up.
Again, what are you talking about? The Jets best pass rusher is Aaron ******* Maybin, Revis is the greatest example of coverage making up for a lack of pass rush. That's the last example you should use for your argument.

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That is another reason why I want DeCastro in round one. Romo is a short QB and pressure in his face is what bothers him the most. There is no reason we should be on par with those offenses if we can just get better interior OL play. With DeMarco running the ball and our WR's and TE's we should be unstoppable.
This I can somewhat agree with, our interior OL play is bad and yes we need an upgrade but it doesn't have to come at the price of our 1st Rounder. There are a ton of different ways we can upgrade that position.


The Lions have invested a ton of money into their Defensive Line and still got smacked by the Saints because their back end is almost as bad as ours. Simply changing coaches is not going to fix the problem by itself, that's the same theory our FO had with signing Rob and expecting him to magically turn the defense around without upgrading the talent.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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You guys completely missed my point. Nevermind.

And yes, I have watched the jets and revis play, I live in the north east. For one, the jets overall defense is better, and two they don't really throw at revis. If you gave Rodgers all day to throw to jennings, and the same with Brees and any of his weapons, Revis would get beat. Thinking he wouldn't is a pretty stupid statement.

I don't think our secondary is good, and sensy is a JAG, but I am saying pass rush is more important. Relax...
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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What DL in the NFL can be successful with our secondary? I would LOVE to know that answer.

You keep kidding yourselves that our secondary is sufficient. I'm tired of it quite frankly. The problem isn't JUST Newman. Unbelievable.
Strawman anyone? No one is saying the secondary is set. We're just saying that getting help for ware should be a higher priorty - NOT THE ONLY PRIORITY!
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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You guys completely missed my point. Nevermind.

And yes, I have watched the jets and revis play, I live in the north east. For one, the jets overall defense is better, and two they don't really throw at revis. If you gave Rodgers all day to throw to jennings, and the same with Brees and any of his weapons, Revis would get beat. Thinking he wouldn't is a pretty stupid statement.

I don't think our secondary is good, and sensy is a JAG, but I am saying pass rush is more important. Relax...
The thing is with our corners you don't need all day to throw, they have trouble feeling out routes and too often give up separation out of their breaks. The pass rush doesn't have a chance most of the time, especially against quality QBs. Eli does this every game against us, he wasn't sacked for 120 plays or whatever the number was because he can get the ball out before any of our guys have a chance of reaching him.

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Old 01-10-2012, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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The thing is with our corners you don't need all day to throw, they have trouble feeling out routes and too often give up separation out of their breaks. The pass rush doesn't have a chance most of the time, especially against quality QBs.
Hopefully a new coach and an upgrade over newman changes that. It's not liek this is unfixable. Jenkins and Scandrick are solid players. Get another good one to replace newman and some better coaching and it's not that hard to envision a quick turn around.

It's not like we have four high school kids playing CB and no picks in the top 4 rounds or something. It's fixable guys.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Strawman anyone? No one is saying the secondary is set. We're just saying that getting help for ware should be a higher priorty - NOT THE ONLY PRIORITY!
If there is an OLB worth taking at 14, then I'm for it. Don't get me wrong.

I just hate the argument that one is more important than the other. In a team sport like this, you are only as strong as your weakest link. There shouldn't be an argument that we need THIS position more than THAT position, unless you're talking about QB. It's about addressing your needs the best you can. You don't draft an OLB with a guy like Vinny Curry and bypass Morris Claiborne because you think OLB has a "higher priority".
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully a new coach and an upgrade over newman changes that. It's not liek this is unfixable. Jenkins and Scandrick are solid players. Get another good one to replace newman and some better coaching and it's not that hard to envision a quick turn around.

It's not like we have four high school kids playing CB and no picks in the top 4 rounds or something. It's fixable guys.
Scandrick is solid depth because he at least has experience, but he's anemic to batting passes away and is a walking 3rd down conversion. I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket if I were you.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Scandrick is solid depth because he at least has experience, but he's anemic to batting passes away and is a walking 3rd down conversion. I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket if I were you.
What I want to know is why are our DB's, and Scandrick especially, so inconsistent?

How can he shut down Wes Welker, who was hotter than the sun at the time, but then like you said acted like he was allergic to the football and didn't bat down that EASY ball to Cruz in the game last week. It makes no sense... Is it coaching? Is campo really that bad? It baffles me.

You can call me an optimist, but I really think Jenkins and Scandrick have talent. Well, obviously they do. Jenkins was a 1st rounder, and Scandrick got a 2nd round grade and fell to the 5th. I'm holding out hope that a new, BETTER coach will do them wonders.

I really hope Campo was that bad. The inconsistency made no sense. A good amount of that had to be coaching.

EDIT: And remember, Scandrick still has plenty of untapped potential. He's still only 24. He came into the league at 20.

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Old 01-10-2012, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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OL Coach Hudson Houck retires....Bill Callahan from the Jets will replace him.

Doesn't seem like Sparano is coming in after that move.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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OL Coach Hudson Houck retires....Bill Callahan from the Jets will replace him.

Doesn't seem like Sparano is coming in after that move.
Just saw Broaddus tweet about it. I guess Sparano is going to the Jets then..

Don't know much about this guy, but the Jets were #1 in 2009 and #4 in 2010 in rushing before falling off this year. Don't know what to think..
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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I don't know too much about him, but apparently he's got decent credentials. I think it's a wash at worst, and a upgrade at best.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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I don't know too much about him, but apparently he's got decent credentials. I think it's a wash at worst, and a upgrade at best.
At least it's a different voice. Let's see if we can get some info from the Jets thread.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Beat ya to it!:)
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During his tenure as not only head coach but also offensive coordinator for the Raiders, the Raider offense led the league in rushing in 2000 and led the league in passing in 2002. In 2002, the Raiders became the first team to win games in the same season while rushing at least 60 times (against Kansas City in a 24-0 win) and passing at least 60 times (against Pittsburgh in a 30-17 win). The Raider offense also set many franchise records during this period, including fewest sacks allowed (28) in 2000, a mark that was broken the following year (27).
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Wow, well that's pretty promising. I just posted in the Jets thread, we'll see what they say as well. So far so good though according to that report.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Jerome Henderson from Cleveland is replacing Campo as the DB's coach.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/...callahan-staff
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