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Old 12-13-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
Zycho32
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I hope that WWE got the message from the fans in Seattle last night. The two combatants in the so-called biggest match ever were face-to-face and the crowd was chanting a name that wasn't either one of them. I don't care that Bryan was in his home state -- the fans would have reacted the same. Also, I don't like the fact that such a big match is a gimmick match (TLC). Maybe I'm too much of an old purist.

I like how John Cena can be booed by over half the crowd and then get almost all of them on his side by the time his promo is over. But this time he used Daniel Bryan as a crutch to do so.

Randy Orton has never been a great talker (as he gets his laid back talking style from his father Cowboy Bob Orton). But his promo in the last segment last night was his best mic work in a long while.
Y'know, this is what I've not been getting lately. The idea that WWE isn't getting the message, presumably.

Practically since the Survivor Series buildup post-HIAC the general consensus was that Bryan was being buried, mainly because he wasn't contending for the WWE Title anymore, and was shackled into a mid-card feud with the Wyatt family.

Me? I just see Act 2.

Lemme elaborate. HHH had an interview with Grantland around the time of SummerSlam, which was rather revealing regardless of how much a burier you think HHH has been in his entire career. But the best bit was what wasn't added in the interview, but added in a later article. A question about WWE's next step got this reply; "Disney."

Meaning WWE is intending to take homage from Disney in terms of plot and storytelling.

...so what happens in Act 2 in a Disney flick where a rightful champion has been banished?

He befriends others and regathers his energy for the climactic victory in Act 3. What did Bryan do in Survivor Series? Befriend CM Punk and Rey Mysterio and the Rhodes brothers and the Usos, and really, now John Cena of all people is in his proverbial corner.

Act 3 ends at Wrestlemania. Act 1 was all the crap between SummerSlam and the fallout of HIAC. Act 2 either ends at TLC, or in the Royal Rumble.

This is VERY unlike WWE not getting it.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Y'know, this is what I've not been getting lately. The idea that WWE isn't getting the message, presumably.

Practically since the Survivor Series buildup post-HIAC the general consensus was that Bryan was being buried, mainly because he wasn't contending for the WWE Title anymore, and was shackled into a mid-card feud with the Wyatt family.

Me? I just see Act 2.

Lemme elaborate. HHH had an interview with Grantland around the time of SummerSlam, which was rather revealing regardless of how much a burier you think HHH has been in his entire career. But the best bit was what wasn't added in the interview, but added in a later article. A question about WWE's next step got this reply; "Disney."

Meaning WWE is intending to take homage from Disney in terms of plot and storytelling.

...so what happens in Act 2 in a Disney flick where a rightful champion has been banished?

He befriends others and regathers his energy for the climactic victory in Act 3. What did Bryan do in Survivor Series? Befriend CM Punk and Rey Mysterio and the Rhodes brothers and the Usos, and really, now John Cena of all people is in his proverbial corner.

Act 3 ends at Wrestlemania. Act 1 was all the crap between SummerSlam and the fallout of HIAC. Act 2 either ends at TLC, or in the Royal Rumble.

This is VERY unlike WWE not getting it.
This is good. Thank you for posting it. The ledge was getting uncomfortable.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 12-13-2013, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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They are handling Bryan fine. The thrill is always in the chase. Once he wins the belt, as epic as it will be, it's likely going to be downhill from there. It's much easier to stay relevant/over as the underdog striving for something because you share that common goal with the audience.
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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They are handling Bryan fine. The thrill is always in the chase. Once he wins the belt, as epic as it will be, it's likely going to be downhill from there. It's much easier to stay relevant/over as the underdog striving for something because you share that common goal with the audience.
Completely agree with this. I've always been on the NWA side of things when it comes to how the handled their titles vs the WWF. WWF had babyfaces hold their belts for years and years as the standard bearers of the company, while the NWA gave the belt to heels and let the babyfaces chase them. Thats why Flair won 8000 World Titles, because any time a babyface got red hot, theyd get their big moment and win the belt against Flair, only for Flair to win it back shortly thereafter by cheating them. I muuuuch prefer the thrill of the chase. Thats part of why I enjoyed WWF 2000 so much, with Trips in the Flair role as champion and Rock chasing him.

On a sidenote, I know it's become cliche and annoying and I feel im beating a dead horse by even bringing him up as a sort of "push him!" type deal, but I think Dolph could do well in the Flair role. The cocky pretty boy heel with the belt who makes all the babyfaces look amazing, then finds a way to escape with the title by the skin of his teeth.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Ziggler, to be honest, is a perfect example. He was red hot, got the payoff and then faded into the background. Granted the concussion was terribly timed, but still....once he won, the excitement just got sucked out.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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I like Ziggler but he can't talk, which makes it really hard for him to build heat for himself. When he was with Vickie she would get nuclear heat, but it was really only for her.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Ziggler, to be honest, is a perfect example. He was red hot, got the payoff and then faded into the background. Granted the concussion was terribly timed, but still....once he won, the excitement just got sucked out.
Some of that excitement was due to the post-WWE crowd. I don't think the average WWE fan was red hot for Ziggler, or ever has been.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Some of that excitement was due to the post-WWE crowd. I don't think the average WWE fan was red hot for Ziggler, or ever has been.
Red hot was probably overstating it, but he was clearly as over as he had ever been. The wave was building and WWE had it crash too quickly.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Yeah there's no doubt that angle was pulled way too quickly. At the time I really loved the double turn with Del Rio (in part because I hated Del Rio as a face), but it ended up doing nothing and going nowhere.

I still think I like Ziggler more as a face, or at least think he should be given the opportunity. With his ability to sell he adds legitimacy to the heel threat, which is often missing in the WWE. Plus his moveset is simply too entertaining to not want to cheer for him.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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I think Ziggler is a fine talker, he's great on his online show and has a few nice promos on TV (running down AJ in the locker room for instance), but he very very rarely was given time to talk or given anything to talk about. He's just a guy they throw in matches.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Ziggler can talk at about the level of Orton or Sheamus, which is to say that he doesn't stand out for being necessarily bad at promos, but he's entirely forgettable as well. Maybe it's the writing or lack of opportunities, but he has thus far really failed at getting seriously over.

But I would agree, like I said, that he had his opportunity pulled from him for reasons beyond his control, which is unfortunate.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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There was a really good feature on WWE.com about Smokey Mountain Wrestling. That, of course, sent me to the internet. Here's a nice little interview featuring the future Al Snow and Kane being interviewed by Jim Ross. Glen Jacobs was a big boy.

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Old 12-13-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Some of that excitement was due to the post-WWE crowd. I don't think the average WWE fan was red hot for Ziggler, or ever has been.






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Old 12-13-2013, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Ziggler is the best wrestler in the company. Yes that includes Bryan. He's being wasted and it's a shame.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Ziggler is the best wrestler in the company. Yes that includes Bryan. He's being wasted and it's a shame.
That is incorrect. If you're talking about purely in ring, it's Bryan. Total package is Punk.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Best natural wrestler is Orton. Best in the ring guy is Bryan. Best overall package is Punk. Biggest asset is Cena.

There ya go.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Best natural wrestler is Orton. Best in the ring guy is Bryan. Best overall package is Punk. Biggest asset is Cena.

There ya go.
Puh-retty much. We're in the minority with Orton though, at least from what I've seen. But I think he's fantastic, best psychology in wrestling right now and over the last 5 years imo. At least, as a heel. His babyface work isn't as good unless he's wrestling Christian.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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you're all wrong.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Orton is one the best in the ring when he's on and motivated, which seems to be about half the time.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm not watching an hour of youtube videos, Corey, but the 2nd one was maybe 10% of the crowd at best.

Smarks like Ziggler, no doubt. And, like I said, they should. Ziggler works his ass off, delivers a great match, and sell like no other.

But he's not super over.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Orton is one the best in the ring when he's on and motivated, which seems to be about half the time.
This is diluted by his Smackdown work, which is 100% non-motivated, unless he's facing Mark Henry.
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Originally Posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 12-15-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
Bert Macklin
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Got my raw tickets for after WM for $47. Between WM and raw we spent a little over $200.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:51 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Awesome possum
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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How did Punk beat The Shield?
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
comahan
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How did Punk beat The Shield?
Reigns missed a lot of the match after hurting himself on the outside, then when he finally got back in he accidentally murdered Ambrose with the spear.
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