Official Training Camp Thread - Page 4

Jughead10 · 08-07-2007, 01:30 PM

Nothing to do with Traning Camp, but I felt like posting it.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-07-2007, 01:44 PM

Good stuff there Jughead.

scottyboy · 08-07-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

So far the only significant injury is Wilkinson. Kuehl I guess as well. But that seems to be a freak thing. How the hell does a snapper get hurt anyway?

for kuehl it was his calf. i guess after snapping, he just turned the wrong way when standing up. kinda makes sense... i guess.

we need Gerris for depth and special teams even. also, gibril has back spasms, but as long as they dont reach Lukey P or the artist formally known as will peterson level, he should be fine.

and ross has a butt injury... great

Jughead10 · 08-07-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

for kuehl it was his calf. i guess after snapping, he just turned the wrong way when standing up. kinda makes sense... i guess.

we need Gerris for depth and special teams even. also, gibril has back spasms, but as long as they dont reach Lukey P or the artist formally known as will peterson level, he should be fine.

and ross has a butt injury... great

Wilkinson out 2-4 weeks with a dislocated knee cap. Thats actually better than having it to do with any of the ligaments.

Gibiril and Ross seem like nothing and more precautionary. Seems like they would be playing if this was the regular season.

Go_Eli · 08-07-2007, 05:05 PM

The Giants' injuries really aren't that bad. Some people are overreacting.

scottyboy · 08-07-2007, 05:11 PM

whew gald to hear that with Gerris. its only dislocated and its 2-4 weeks. he can rest it during the preseason and be fully ready for the season.

bigbluedefense · 08-07-2007, 06:48 PM

Yeah but now he wont get any PS practice in. I wanted to see him in PS. Im not exactly sold on him being a long term answer at WILL. He plays like a softee to me, so I really wanted to see what he was made of. Guess we'll have to wait and see when the games start counting for that =/

bigbluedefense · 08-07-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Nothing to do with Traning Camp, but I felt like posting it.

that would so be my new sig if i didnt get a Ray Rice one.

Go_Eli · 08-07-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Why not? He was drafted with the intent of being the future LT of our franchise after 2 years of development. So far all indications point to him not being that guy. That qualifies as a bust if it holds true. Just because he was drafted in the 4th doesnt mean anything. He wasn't drafted as a "if he pans out then great" type of deal, there was a fair amount of faith put into him being our future LT. And he has not lived up to those expectations. If you were drafted with the intent of being a starter, and never achieve that goal, you are a bust, regardless of what round you were picked in.

Look at the Ravens. They drafted Gaither with the intentions of him being their future LT. In the 5th round at that. If he doesnt even crack the starting lineup, then he's a bust. Plain and simple.

I don't buy that. He's not a first round pick. He was a project 4th round pick that every coach, player and fan knew would take time to see what he really had.

It'd be different if he was a first round pick that completely stunk it up. He's a medium risk, high reward player. If he becomes a viable right tackle, is he a bust then?

What about failed project? Or somewhat failed project? Maybe we should wait to watch all 4 preseason games and see what he does against real competition.

If Gaither doesn't pan out...the Ravens still did well. Bust in the supplemental draft in this NFL? Doubt it. Gaither is the perfect low risk, high reward player.

bigbluedefense · 08-07-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go_Eli

I don't buy that. He's not a first round pick. He was a project 4th round pick that every coach, player and fan knew would take time to see what he really had.

It'd be different if he was a first round pick that completely stunk it up. He's a medium risk, high reward player. If he becomes a viable right tackle, is he a bust then?

What about failed project? Or somewhat failed project? Maybe we should wait to watch all 4 preseason games and see what he does against real competition.

If Gaither doesn't pan out...the Ravens still did well. Bust in the supplemental draft in this NFL? Doubt it. Gaither is the perfect low risk, high reward player.

If he pans out at RT, yeah he's salvaged. But if you were drafted with the intent of being a starter, and you never become that, then to me youre a bust. Not being drafted in the 1st round doesn't excuse you from the bust category. Its not just reserved for them. A busted draft pick is anyone who doesn't pan out. Thats how I look at it at least.

Gaither is a 5th round choice yes. But his selection will in all likelihood prevent Baltimore from drafting another LT prospect early in the next draft, possibly beyond that. Now if he doesn't pan out, how is he not a bust? The team put considerable faith in his development, regardless of what round he was drafted in. Now if it doesnt work and he never cracks the starting lineup, that faith was unwarranted and valueable time, money, and games were lost on a player who never panned out. Thats a bust.

As for supplemental draft picks being excused from the bust category, look no further than the immortal Dave Brown to refute that line of reasoning.

Go_Eli · 08-07-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

If he pans out at RT, yeah he's salvaged. But if you were drafted with the intent of being a starter, and you never become that, then to me youre a bust. Not being drafted in the 1st round doesn't excuse you from the bust category. Its not just reserved for them. A busted draft pick is anyone who doesn't pan out. Thats how I look at it at least.

Gaither is a 5th round choice yes. But his selection will in all likelihood prevent Baltimore from drafting another LT prospect early in the next draft, possibly beyond that. Now if he doesn't pan out, how is he not a bust? The team put considerable faith in his development, regardless of what round he was drafted in. Now if it doesnt work and he never cracks the starting lineup, that faith was unwarranted and valueable time, money, and games were lost on a player who never panned out. Thats a bust.

As for supplemental draft picks being excused from the bust category, look no further than the immortal Dave Brown to refute that line of reasoning.

I few a bust as a guy who comes in and everyone expects great things out of him because of college. Willie Jo is a bust. If he was a 4th rounder, is he still a bust? No, but as a 1st rounder, he's a bust. Still decent depth but not a great 1st round selection.

Now was Whimper brought in and did we expect great things out of him? Yeah but I think everyone had to think maybe he won't work. If the giants drafted a left tackle next year in the first and he absolutely stinks, he's a bust. Why? Giants expected him to be a starter for the next 10 years. Is Whimper? I don't think so. Giants' fans HOPED he'd be the starter for the next 10 years. No one knows.

I said in today's NFL, I can't see a bust coming from the supplemental draft. If Gaither stinks it up...he's not a major investment. He's a 5th round supplemental pick signed to a dirt cheap contract.

bigbluedefense · 08-08-2007, 01:39 PM

The offensive line is getting mauled. And we have no one with even a glimer of hope to hold down the LT spot if Diehl gets injured. This is not good. Especially considering Diehl isn't exactly playing like Orlando Pace himself at LT.

I think we need to make a trade. Perhaps trade a 5th to Cleveland for that Tackle Reese was considering earlier in the offseason? Something has to be done. Right now Im not feeling good at all about our offensive line. Even if the guy we trade for is a stopgap guy for 1 year, its worth a 5th round pick, maybe even a 4th. We can't go into the season with this line if it continues to struggle. That could shatter Eli's confidence once and for all.

And jeez Coughlin, please implement some more WCO and 3 step drops into our playbook to neutralize the poor play of our oline. You cannot run air coryell when your line sucks. *sigh*

Jughead10 · 08-08-2007, 01:43 PM

I heard there are more 3 step drops this year so far. Also Diehl is that last person I would worry about getting hurt. I believe he has started every game since the day he was drafted. Of course now that I said this he will go down tomorrow.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-08-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

The offensive line is getting mauled. And we have no one with even a glimer of hope to hold down the LT spot if Diehl gets injured. This is not good. Especially considering Diehl isn't exactly playing like Orlando Pace himself at LT.

I think we need to make a trade. Perhaps trade a 5th to Cleveland for that Tackle Reese was considering earlier in the offseason? Something has to be done. Right now Im not feeling good at all about our offensive line. Even if the guy we trade for is a stopgap guy for 1 year, its worth a 5th round pick, maybe even a 4th. We can't go into the season with this line if it continues to struggle. That could shatter Eli's confidence once and for all.

And jeez Coughlin, please implement some more WCO and 3 step drops into our playbook to neutralize the poor play of our oline. You cannot run air coryell when your line sucks. *sigh*

I'm not going to put much stock into how our o-line looks before the first preseason game is even played. Diehl will be average at the LT spot and our right side of the line gets better and better with Snee gaining more experience. I believe we only gave up 19 sacks last year not including the one Eagles game where we gave up 7. That includes having Whitfield in the LT spot looking terrible for the last quarter of the year. Diehl will be fine at LT by the time the season starts.

bigbluedefense · 08-08-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I heard there are more 3 step drops this year so far. Also Diehl is that last person I would worry about getting hurt. I believe he has started every game since the day he was drafted. Of course now that I said this he will go down tomorrow.

Thanks Jug. When he goes down Im blaming you. :p

I do think we need to make a trade though. Id even take Bob Whitfield back for another year.

Wait, did I just say that?

Go_Eli · 08-08-2007, 01:49 PM

Oh no, offensive line struggling!

bigbluedefense · 08-08-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

I'm not going to put much stock into how our o-line looks before the first preseason game is even played. Diehl will be average at the LT spot and our right side of the line gets better and better with Snee gaining more experience. I believe we only gave up 19 sacks last year not including the one Eagles game where we gave up 7. That includes having Whitfield in the LT spot looking terrible for the last quarter of the year. Diehl will be fine at LT by the time the season starts.

Thats a misleading stat. Eli kept chucking it up for INTs instead of taking sacks last year. Our oline was not playing well when Petitgout went down. I bet we were one of the worst lines when it came to hurries.

And even PS isn't a good indication, because from what i read, our line struggles with blitz pickup, and teams rarely blitz in the PS.

bigbluedefense · 08-08-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go_Eli

Oh no, offensive line struggling!

Giantsfan1080 · 08-08-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Thats a misleading stat. Eli kept chucking it up for INTs instead of taking sacks last year. Our oline was not playing well when Petitgout went down. I bet we were one of the worst lines when it came to hurries.

And even PS isn't a good indication, because from what i read, our line struggles with blitz pickup, and teams rarely blitz in the PS.

Your right about that but in the first half of the year the line was very good except for the Eagles game and Eli wasn't throwing INT's. Everyone always ripped Luke at the LT spot and now that we have a replacement for him then people are getting nervous. Diehl has played every spot on the line and has done a good job all the time. He never gets hurt and has a great confidence and work ethic that will help him succeed. I really think the O-Line is not going to that big of a problem. I think Spags is just throwing some pretty crazy stuff at them right now and they aren't in "game shape" to take care of it. Come Week 1 the Line will be fine.

Go_Eli · 08-08-2007, 01:56 PM

Now I haven't been in camp or anything so I don't know if this is true, but a thought...

What if the offensive line "struggles" were because of the rotation of some guys? Every report I've read has said the line has struggled...but guys like O'Hara, Snee, and McKenzie are never mentioned (for good and bad).

Maybe the Giants are subbing younger guys in and out who are fighting to make the team. I know Whimper is getting reps with the 1st team, who's to say Zach Piller, Grey Ruegamer, Todd Londot and Matt Lentz aren't either? Maybe the line stinks because the line is always been changed and switch up.

Don't know if this is true, but it's a thought. It's not like guys can hit Manning or any other QB so why not mix it up in front of him?

bigbluedefense · 08-08-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Your right about that but in the first half of the year the line was very good except for the Eagles game and Eli wasn't throwing INT's. Everyone always ripped Luke at the LT spot and now that we have a replacement for him then people are getting nervous. Diehl has played every spot on the line and has done a good job all the time. He never gets hurt and has a great confidence and work ethic that will help him succeed. I really think the O-Line is not going to that big of a problem. I think Spags is just throwing some pretty crazy stuff at them right now and they aren't in "game shape" to take care of it. Come Week 1 the Line will be fine.

I sure hope so. I still believe though we need to make a trade for depth purposes. Whimper is getting his booty rocked with the first unit. He can't be our #2 on the depth chart.

bigbluedefense · 08-08-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go_Eli

Now I haven't been in camp or anything so I don't know if this is true, but a thought...

What if the offensive line "struggles" were because of the rotation of some guys? Every report I've read has said the line has struggled...but guys like O'Hara, Snee, and McKenzie are never mentioned (for good and bad).

Maybe the Giants are subbing younger guys in and out who are fighting to make the team. I know Whimper is getting reps with the 1st team, who's to say Zach Piller, Grey Ruegamer, Todd Londot and Matt Lentz aren't either? Maybe the line stinks because the line is always been changed and switch up.

Don't know if this is true, but it's a thought. It's not like guys can hit Manning or any other QB so why not mix it up in front of him?

From what I hear, Diehl and Whimper are getting first team reps. Diehl alot more so then Whimper. They need to stop letting Whimper practice with the 1st team because he's a lost cause this year (and probably beyond). He's taking valuable reps away from Diehl. He needs all the practice he can get.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-08-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I sure hope so. I still believe though we need to make a trade for depth purposes. Whimper is getting his booty rocked with the first unit. He can't be our #2 on the depth chart.

That would be fine with me. You can never have enough depth on the lines.

Go_Eli · 08-08-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

From what I hear, Diehl and Whimper are getting first team reps. Diehl alot more so then Whimper. They need to stop letting Whimper practice with the 1st team because he's a lost cause this year (and probably beyond). He's taking valuable reps away from Diehl. He needs all the practice he can get.

I know, but that's just left tackle. The reports haven't been "the LT position is getting abused" (though it kind of has been)...it's "the entire line is struggling".

O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie have their spots locked up. Maybe some younger guys are getting reps to see who the backups will be and that's what's causing the line troubles?

scottyboy · 08-08-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Thanks Jug. When he goes down Im blaming you. :p

I do think we need to make a trade though. Id even take Bob Whitfield back for another year.

Wait, did I just say that?

i dont know you anymore. who are you, and what have you done to the real BBD?