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Old 03-10-2007, 11:07 AM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
MSU better not get in over us. 1-8 on the road. Just got knocked in the 2nd round of the tourney. 8-8 record in the Big 10.

Although they do have that "signature win" against Wisky.
They also have a #10 SOS and a much higher RPI than Illinois and Purdue.
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Old 03-10-2007, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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I think you've got it mixed up. Michigan State is more of a sure thing than Illinois, I would argue Purdue is too.

Illinois has a 4-8 record against the top 50 and Purdue crushed them in their head-to-head.

I think Illinois should make it and there should be 6 Big Ten teams (I'm also from Big Ten country) but of them all I'd put Illinois or Purdue on the outside most likely.
I think Purdue played their way in last night, but I would agree on Michigan State, that Wisconsin game put them in for sure.
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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I think you've got it mixed up. Michigan State is more of a sure thing than Illinois, I would argue Purdue is too.

Illinois has a 4-8 record against the top 50 RPI and Purdue crushed them in their head-to-head.

I think Illinois should make it and there should be 6 Big Ten teams (I'm also from Big Ten country) but of them all I'd put Illinois or Purdue on the outside most likely.
We played Purdue at a bad time this year. And we only played them once, which is a bunch of BS in Lafayette. I say we drop both Minnesota and Northwestern and make it so each team plays each other twice, haha.

'But the thing I look at is what have you done for me lately. And we're 9-3 in our last 12 games, including 2-0 in the tournament so far. And 11-7 in the conferrence. Our RPI is up to 28 and our SOS is at 24. I don't see how you can keep a top 30 RPI, top 30 SOS, 23 win, 11-7 in the conference, no bad loss, Big 10 team out of the tournament.

Purdue also lost to Minnesota in conference, which IMO constitutes a BAD loss. They also lost to Indiana State, another BAD loss. We don't have a "bad" loss. I think the only one you could make an arguement for is the Purdue game but in the Big 10, it's very tough to win on the road. And if you actually watch the game, you'd see how crappy the game was. Teague of Purdue launched 3 threes at the shot clock buzzer from 40 feet away and banked in two of them when we were trying to get back in.

People said we had to beat PSU, and we'd be a lock to get in. But then we had to beat IU to get in, which we did and analysts said we'd be a lock. And now we've got to beat Wisky to get according to some. It's almost a double standard against us and it's a shame that the "signature" win is what is maybe keeping us out in the eyes of some voters, but a lot of that has to do with all the upsets so far in the conference tourneys. But we've been consistent pretty much all year, we've won the games we were supposed to but again, we lost the games we were supposed to as well.

Injuries and suspensions have really hindered our season, yet we're 23-11. But the committee doesn't see it as an excuse so there's not much we can really do.
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Here's also something to consider about IU being a "lock" over us:

Advantages over Indiana:
1. Better RPI
2. Better SOS
3. More Wins overall
4. More wins in BT
5. Better record in last 10 games (7-3 vs 5-5)
6. Better Road/Neutral record: (9-7 vs 5-10)
7. 2-1 Head to head Adv (Home/Road/Neutral)

Indiana's advantage over us:
1. Less losses (assuming we lose tomorrow or Sun)
2. Better signature wins (Wisky and Southern Illinois)

I realize the tourney won't put the #3 seed in the Big 10 tournament out of the dance, but I'm wondering how they're resume is better than ours, other than the fact they beat Wisconsin.
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Xavier losing in the A-10 shouldn't make that much of a difference. Xavier is no lock. They played in a weaker conference than a majority of the bubble teams and didn't even reach there conference final.
No way man they are an automatic lock, 24-8, 13-3 in the A-10. They beat VCU who will sneak into the top 25 this week after being #27 last week and winning their conference tournament. They beat Big East contender Villanova. They beat Big 12 probably tourney team Kansas State, and they beat Illinois.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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No way man they are an automatic lock, 24-8, 13-3 in the A-10. They beat VCU who will sneak into the top 25 this week after being #27 last week and winning their conference tournament. They beat Big East contender Villanova. They beat Big 12 probably tourney team Kansas State, and they beat Illinois.
They also lost to Duquesne (sp?), Saint Louis, and St. Joseph's.

The mid major love in CB is getting a bit out of hand, but yes, I'll agree that Xavier will be in.

Teams like Appalachian State, Air Force, Drexel, Old Dominion, etc are getting way too much press.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
Here's also something to consider about IU being a "lock" over us:

Advantages over Indiana:
1. Better RPI
2. Better SOS
3. More Wins overall
4. More wins in BT
5. Better record in last 10 games (7-3 vs 5-5)
6. Better Road/Neutral record: (9-7 vs 5-10)
7. 2-1 Head to head Adv (Home/Road/Neutral)

Indiana's advantage over us:
1. Less losses (assuming we lose tomorrow or Sun)
2. Better signature wins (Wisky and Southern Illinois)

I realize the tourney won't put the #3 seed in the Big 10 tournament out of the dance, but I'm wondering how they're resume is better than ours, other than the fact they beat Wisconsin.
Did you just make those two up? IU has a better RPI and won more Big Ten games, which is why they were a higher seed than Illinois.

IU also has more top 50 wins, a bigger point differential on the season, and Illinois has three losses to teams outside of the top 100 to Indiana's 0. I know IU's resume isn't as good as the media makes it out to be, but it's still pretty good. I think they'll end up with a 9 or 10 seed.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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They also lost to Duquesne (sp?), Saint Louis, and St. Joseph's.

The mid major love in CB is getting a bit out of hand, but yes, I'll agree that Xavier will be in.

Teams like Appalachian State, Air Force, Drexel, Old Dominion, etc are getting way too much press.
If you put Appalachian state's resume against a team like Virginia (who they beat) it's arguably much better. They won't get in, but they should. I would put them over a team like Georgia Tech, who I completely do not understand why they are suddenly off the bubble despite their early exit from the ACC tourney.

So Duke gets too much press, and mid-majors get too much press. Who doesn't get too much press? Illinois?

Back to your argument about IU or Ill-U. It's not that they have more signature wins, it's that Illinois has NO signature wins. Who's the best team they've beaten? Probably Indiana in overtime just yesterday. They should get in as I've been saying for a while now, but they are not a strong-bid team. They aren't. It's bizarre that you critique TT for not realize Duke is not a stong team but fail to see that about Illinois.

And whoever said they were in after they beat Penn State is full of crap. They absolutely had to beat Indiana.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Did you just make those two up? IU has a better RPI and won more Big Ten games, which is why they were a higher seed than Illinois.

IU also has more top 50 wins, a bigger point differential on the season, and Illinois has three losses to teams outside of the top 100 to Indiana's 0. I know IU's resume isn't as good as the media makes it out to be, but it's still pretty good. I think they'll end up with a 9 or 10 seed.
I'm counting tournament games as well.

Also, Illinois has no losses to teams outside the top 100, don't know where you are getting that from. Xavier, Michigan State, IU, Wisky, AZ, Xavier, Maryland, Iowa, Michigan, and Purdue all have top 100 RPI's.

Illinois moves up to #28 in the RPI with their win over IU, and when we play Wisky today, it'll probably go up even more. It's not official yet but a guy on the IB calculated it and I think IU slides out of the top 30 if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I'm counting tournament games as well.

Also, Illinois has no losses to teams outside the top 100, don't know where you are getting that from. Xavier, Michigan State, IU, Wisky, AZ, Xavier, Maryland, Iowa, Michigan, and Purdue all have top 100 RPI's.

Illinois moves up to #28 in the RPI with their win over IU, and when we play Wisky today, it'll probably go up even more. It's not official yet but a guy on the IB calculated it and I think IU slides out of the top 30 if I'm not mistaken.
I use this for RPI and they still have IU above UI. Apparently I was reading Air Force's line instead of Illinois' for the losses against non-top 100, my bad.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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If you put Appalachian state's resume against a team like Virginia (who they beat) it's arguably much better. They won't get in, but they should. I would put them over a team like Georgia Tech, who I completely do not understand why they are suddenly off the bubble despite their early exit from the ACC tourney.

So Duke gets too much press, and mid-majors get too much press. Who doesn't get too much press? Illinois?

Back to your argument about IU or Ill-U. It's not that they have more signature wins, it's that Illinois has NO signature wins. Who's the best team they've beaten? Probably Indiana in overtime just yesterday. They should get in as I've been saying for a while now, but they are not a strong-bid team. They aren't. It's bizarre that you critique TT for not realize Duke is not a stong team but fail to see that about Illinois.

And whoever said they were in after they beat Penn State is full of crap. They absolutely had to beat Indiana.
I've already said Illinois isn't a strong team right now. On paper we are, but with all the stuff we've been through I've already stated that we aren't a top 25 squad right now, and we don't deserve to be in the top 25. But I'm not the one who believes my team should be in the top 25.

We've got the potential to do some damage in the tourney if we get there, but potential and execution are two totally separate things.

People overlook bad losses with key wins. Purdue beats MSU and IU but loses to Indiana State and Minnesota.

Air Force doesn't have a "signature win" either.

Appalachian State beats Virginia but loses to Elon, College of Charleston, and Furman.

Old Dominion beats Georgetown but loses to James Madison.

Drexel has wins against Syracuse and Villanova but has lost to William & Mary and Rider.

Again, people are looking at the mid majors b/c of teams like SIU, Creighton, etc...And they're overlooking bad losses for key wins.

Illinois doesn't have a bad loss. All of our losses are against top 100 RPI teams and against big name schools.

Also, Indiana lost to Purdue by 13 in Lafayette. So if you say Illinois blew it against Purdue, you have to to IU did as well.

Like I said, I know that Illinois isn't a strong team right now. I've told TT that recently. But we do have the talent to do some things in March.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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I use this for RPI and they still have IU above UI. Apparently I was reading Air Force's line instead of Illinois' for the losses against non-top 100, my bad.
I believe IU goes down and UI goes up after that game b/c it isn't updated for today.

Either way though we have a better SOS, we have a better road/neutral record, we're better head to head, we have more conference wins, more wins overall, and we're better in our last 12 games.

I'm not saying we "deserve it" over IU, but I don't like how you guys are a "lock" and we aren't.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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I believe IU goes down and UI goes up after that game b/c it isn't updated for today.

Either way though we have a better SOS, we have a better road/neutral record, we're better head to head, we have more conference wins, more wins overall, and we're better in our last 12 games.

I'm not saying we "deserve it" over IU, but I don't like how you guys are a "lock" and we aren't.
It's because of the quality wins, that's the only reason really. Is it right? Probably not, but when you beat the at that time #2 team in the nation, you're gonna get attention from the committee. They were also at one point a top 20 team in nation, that doesn't hurt either. And that site actually is updated for today, it says for games through Friday and includes the loss in IU's record.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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It's because of the quality wins, that's the only reason really. Is it right? Probably not, but when you beat the at that time #2 team in the nation, you're gonna get attention from the committee. They were also at one point a top 20 team in nation, that doesn't hurt either. And that site actually is updated for today, it says for games through Friday and includes the loss in IU's record.
So our RPI is basically even then, hmmm...Well that stat is a wash then.

IU deserves to be in, no doubt, but so do we. And the only thing holding us back is that we don't have a "signature win." Which could change after today.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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I think it's unfair to count those types of losses against mid-majors the same way you would a big conference team. Of course they're going to have more, they play in a league that has more sup 100 RPI teams. Plus I think one or two big losses is justifiable. Teams are going to slip up from time to time. I'm more looking for the teams that have shown that when facing the top talent in the league they have the ability to consistantly win.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I think it's unfair to count those types of losses against mid-majors the same way you would a big conference team. Of course they're going to have more, they play in a league that has more sup 100 RPI teams. Plus I think one or two big losses is justifiable. Teams are going to slip up from time to time. I'm more looking for the teams that have shown that when facing the top talent in the league they have the ability to consistantly win.
See if we lose to a team like William and Mary, we're done. And these teams play high major teams maybe once a year, and I think the Virginia's, Georgetowns, etc overlook the mid majors. I know we did when we played teams like Savanneh State, Jackson State, etc...It's just not the same as playing teams like OSU, Iowa, Michigan State, IU, etc...

But if teams like Drexel, ODU, App State, ect played the schedule we play, this wouldn't even be a discussion. I don't count beating a high major team as consistently showing everyone that they can win those types of games. Losing to a pathetic team such as William & Mary should be penalized. Because as bad as Minnesota is WM is even worse.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 03-10-2007, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Gametime, Wisconsin by 8.
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Old 03-10-2007, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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Gametime, Wisconsin by 8.
Not a pretty game at all. But I kinda expected some fatigue on our side with a short bench and coming off of an emotional OT victory last night.

Congrats on the win. You deserved it. Although that no goltending call was flat out pathetic. Probably the worst call I've seen in quite some time.

I hope the committee doesn't look at this performance and get sour over it. We won the two games we had to win, and this would've just been icing on top of the cake.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 03-10-2007, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Not a pretty game at all. But I kinda expected some fatigue on our side with a short bench and coming off of an emotional OT victory last night.

Congrats on the win. You deserved it. Although that no goltending call was flat out pathetic. Probably the worst call I've seen in quite some time.

I hope the committee doesn't look at this performance and get sour over it. We won the two games we had to win, and this would've just been icing on top of the cake.
It was rather boring if you ask me. I hope they make it though.
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Old 03-10-2007, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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The MWC will do pretty good in the tournament. And btw, Wisconsin is gonna get their a*s*s handed to them tomorrow.
They are still a mid major and don't deserve there own thread, the Big Ten Championship which is a much bigger game(though it carries little meaning) doesn't get it's own thread so that sure as hell doesn't. And btw, you are a ******* dumbass. What are you basing that on? We already beat OSU once and then the other one we lost by 1 point. Oh yeah, of course we they are "gonna get theur a*s*s handed to them".
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Old 03-10-2007, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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i will just say one thing... oklahoma st. had that game but Eaton just plain sucks at basketball and turned over the ball he should be playing football
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Old 03-10-2007, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Is anybody else beginning to think that my Ducks deserve a #2 seed? I'm pretty sure we'll end up as a #3, but I just think it'll be ridiculous if UCLA gets seeded higher than us.
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Old 03-10-2007, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Is anybody else beginning to think that my Ducks deserve a #2 seed? I'm pretty sure we'll end up as a #3, but I just think it'll be ridiculous if UCLA gets seeded higher than us.
I can see Oregon being this years Florida actually. Dangerous team. I have them as a #3 right now, but if they win the PAC-10 Conference Tournament, which it looks like they will, I have them as possibly a #2.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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