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Old 05-16-2007, 10:59 AM    (permalink
TouchdownUSC
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Default Cowboys draft day question?

ive been confused about something since draft day...

why did the Cowboys ( i think it was them) allow cleveland to make a deal to take Brady Quinn with the 22nd pick in the first round?

Cowboys could have used Quinn as a QB. i was so confused by that. what did the whole agreement between the Cowboys and Browns consist of that allowed the Browns to take Quinn in the first round? Thanks
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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They had/have confidence in Romo and Cleveland's #1 next year has a lot of potential.
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TouchdownUSC View Post
ive been confused about something since draft day...

why did the Cowboys ( i think it was them) allow cleveland to make a deal to take Brady Quinn with the 22nd pick in the first round?

Cowboys could have used Quinn as a QB. i was so confused by that. what did the whole agreement between the Cowboys and Browns consist of that allowed the Browns to take Quinn in the first round? Thanks
Well the Cowboys believe to have their franchise guy on roster, him being Tony Romo, which makes Quinn a useless pick for them. Next thing is that the value the Browns offered, an '08 first-round pick, is enormous, considering the browns are most likely picking somewhere between places 5 and 15 next year (let's be nice to the Browns). So it was a good trade for both teams, Cowboys got a top 15 pick next year and the browns got themselves a potential franchise quarterback.

Now it all hangs on Quinn, if he busts or doesn't turn into a very solid guy, the Browns look stupid, if he does turn out to be very good, then it's a very fair trade.
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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The Cowboys got great value and have plenty of confidence in Tony Romo beinf their man. They also had other needs, and they will be having 2 1st round picks (one of them having a 90% chance of being a top 10 pick)

I think it was logical.

And they got one of the best defenders in the draft in Anthony Spencer
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Sounds like a fair deal
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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As other people have already mentioned they wanted to show Romo that they have the confidence in him to be their starting QB, but one scenario that nobody has mentioned is Julius Jones. He is going to be a free agent after the season. There is talk of Marion Barber becoming more of the feature back this year, so they will likely not resign Jones. I can see them using one of their 2 first round pick, preferably the Browns since that will be the higher one, to trade up and grab Mcfadden. Jones has put up solid numbers, but Cowboys should not pass up oppurtunity to get Mcfadden and then they won't have to resign Jones.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys got lucky with the deal. I know the Browns contacted the Giants about the #20 pick. But didn't offer the same deal the Cowboys got. Meaning the first rounder in 08 wasn't offered to us. The reason it was offered to the Cowboys was because the Browns got nervous Baltimore was going to trade up and grab Quinn. Baltimore had little ammunition to move up because of a lack of a second round pick, but once Quinn dropped to #24 the Browns realized the Ravens didn't need much more than a 3rd rounder to move up from #29 and would need less if Quinn dropped to #25 or 26.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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the cowboys think romo can be their QB and the browns gave them a really good deal
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like a fair deal
It is, unless of course Quinn turns out to be a bust, basically you can tell if someone likes Quinn or not by reading their reaction to the trade, if they feel the Browns gave up too much, they're obviously thinking Quinn was and is overrated, if they feel like it's a good trade (like I do) they think Quinn will be a very solid QB and that the 'Boys got good value for a player they didn't really need.

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Cowboys got lucky with the deal. I know the Browns contacted the Giants about the #20 pick. But didn't offer the same deal the Cowboys got. Meaning the first rounder in 08 wasn't offered to us. The reason it was offered to the Cowboys was because the Browns got nervous Baltimore was going to trade up and grab Quinn. Baltimore had little ammunition to move up because of a lack of a second round pick, but once Quinn dropped to #24 the Browns realized the Ravens didn't need much more than a 3rd rounder to move up from #29 and would need less if Quinn dropped to #25 or 26.
Well Quinn only dropped to 22, at least that's where the Browns selected him in the end. I guess the Browns wanted to avoid giving Baltimore a chance at getting him. I guess you could view it as the 'Boys getting lucky, or the Giants catching a bad break. You could also see it as a Cowboys war room that made excellent use of it's leverage.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget the Cowboys received an early second rounder (36) in addition the the 2008 first rounder.

According to the value chart the Cowboys committed highway robbery.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Well Quinn only dropped to 22, at least that's where the Browns selected him in the end. I guess the Browns wanted to avoid giving Baltimore a chance at getting him. I guess you could view it as the 'Boys getting lucky, or the Giants catching a bad break. You could also see it as a Cowboys war room that made excellent use of it's leverage.
Yeah, I meant #22. Its just a matter of where the picks feel. Dallas was closer to Baltimore. Browns had to pull the trigger.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget the Cowboys received an early second rounder (36) in addition the the 2008 first rounder.

According to the value chart the Cowboys committed highway robbery.
It really all depends on how Quinn turns out. If he's the QB his supporters think he will be, then it's a fair trade, if he turns out (like some people on these boards have claimed) a bust, then the Cowboys really robbed the Browns.

In all it was an excellent trade for the Cowboys, that's for sure. How fair it was from the Browns' perspective depends on Quinn entirely.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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It really all depends on how Quinn turns out. If he's the QB his supporters think he will be, then it's a fair trade, if he turns out (like some people on these boards have claimed) a bust, then the Cowboys really robbed the Browns.

In all it was an excellent trade for the Cowboys, that's for sure. How fair it was from the Browns' perspective depends on Quinn entirely.
I was talking about the sheer number values of the draft picks involved.


DAL Pick 22 - 780 pts.

CLE Pick 36 - 540 pts.

That's a difference of 240 pts, equivalent of the 70th pick (3rd Rnd).

Consider that the 2008 First Rounder could be a top 15 pick... the 15th pick alone is worth 1050 pts. So as you see, point value wise, it was a smashing deal for the Boys.

As far as getting Quinn, it was a good get for CLE. So I think both teams benefitted.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I was talking about the sheer number values of the draft picks involved.


DAL Pick 22 - 780 pts.

CLE Pick 36 - 540 pts.

That's a difference of 240 pts, equivalent of the 70th pick (3rd Rnd).

Consider that the 2008 First Rounder could be a top 15 pick... the 15th pick alone is worth 1050 pts. So as you see, point value wise, it was a smashing deal for the Boys.

As far as getting Quinn, it was a good get for CLE. So I think both teams benefitted.
A first round pick next year has the value of a mid second this year, so while he was a good value trade for the Cowboys, it isn't as amazing as you are making it sound.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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A first round pick next year has the value of a mid second this year, so while he was a good value trade for the Cowboys, it isn't as amazing as you are making it sound.
If that's true relatively to this year... it's pretty much meaningless. When next rolls around, that CLE pick will hold it's true value once again.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget the Cowboys received an early second rounder (36) in addition the the 2008 first rounder.

According to the value chart the Cowboys committed highway robbery.
Yep, which is the only reason the trade hurts...

I think it was good, I wanted Quinn at 3, but Thomas was the best pick... For me, we got two top 5 players in one draft, but the Cowboys got a steal, because Browns will be picking 8-15 in my mind, which is amazing value for them. Both teams got a good deal out of it, very very fair trade unless Quinn ends up being horrible, which I didn't think would happen before the draft, and I don't think it will happen still.
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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The Cowboys essentially moved down to get their player Spencer and pick up a 2008 first for a third and fifth round pick.
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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jerry jones also stated at the press conference, that they almost turned in their card at pick 22 and the name they had on it was

Anthony Spencer

they basically got Spencer and a top 10 pick next year for pick 22
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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I was talking about the sheer number values of the draft picks involved.


DAL Pick 22 - 780 pts.

CLE Pick 36 - 540 pts.

That's a difference of 240 pts, equivalent of the 70th pick (3rd Rnd).

Consider that the 2008 First Rounder could be a top 15 pick... the 15th pick alone is worth 1050 pts. So as you see, point value wise, it was a smashing deal for the Boys.

As far as getting Quinn, it was a good get for CLE. So I think both teams benefitted.
oh I get your point, my point was that I think getting a franchise quarterback trumps the trade value chart.
Now note that I said getting a FRANCHISE quarterback, not just any, if Quinn doesn't become anything more than solid, then yes, the browns got pwnd, if he does become what he, IMO, can become, then it's a very fair trade.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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OK, this is a silly question IMO. First of all, we have (what we believe to be) our franchis QB already in Tony Romo. Don't kid yourself into thinking that just because he dropped one snap, he's now a terrible QB, and he must be replaced. If it weren't for Romo, we wouldn't have evn been in position to kick it in the first place. Hell, we problably wouldn't have even been playing in the game at all. The fact is, Tony Romo is a gamer and a leader. He's our QB. So, if we can trade a player we don't need for Clevlands 1st rounder next year, there's not a doubt in my mind that you take that deal. Keep in mind, this isn't the Patriots or the Colts. This is the Browns. The Browns will more than likely have quite a high draft pick waiting for us at the end of the season. Also, the player we wanted (Anthony Spencer) would be a reach at 22. So, we trade out of the 1st, and then into the back end of the 1st and take the guy we wanted with no huge cost. We basically traded down a few spots for Clevlands pick in 08. That's one heck of a deal.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Something I just remembered that made me laugh. I think it was last summer or so that a few Cowboy fans were saying how next year they had to trade everything to move up and get Quinn. It just thought it was funny that they were begging for him only a year ago, then he actually falls to them, and they trade the pick. Just kinda shows how worthless talk right now is.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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As others have stated, it was a pretty fair trade on both sides. Both teams got what they wanted.

An interesting tidbit is that in a recent interview, Jeff Ireland, Cowboys VP of pro and college scouting (and for all intents and purposes GM), actually said that he expected Quinn to drop to 22 and they were prepared to make the trade before it happened.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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A first round pick next year has the value of a mid second this year, so while he was a good value trade for the Cowboys, it isn't as amazing as you are making it sound.
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If that's true relatively to this year... it's pretty much meaningless. When next rolls around, that CLE pick will hold it's true value once again.
You discount next year's pick by 1 round. So 2008 #1 is worth a 2007 #2 at their 2007 draft pick (i.e., 3rd pick in the 2nd round).

So in the trade Dallas received 1100 points and gave up 780 points, which gives Dallas an added value equivalent to a late 2nd round pick.

Dallas took some of this additional value (only a small portion) and used it in the Philly trade to get back up to #26.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:59 PM    (permalink
TouchdownUSC
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OK, this is a silly question IMO. First of all, we have (what we believe to be) our franchis QB already in Tony Romo. Don't kid yourself into thinking that just because he dropped one snap, he's now a terrible QB, and he must be replaced. If it weren't for Romo, we wouldn't have evn been in position to kick it in the first place. Hell, we problably wouldn't have even been playing in the game at all. The fact is, Tony Romo is a gamer and a leader. He's our QB. So, if we can trade a player we don't need for Clevlands 1st rounder next year, there's not a doubt in my mind that you take that deal. Keep in mind, this isn't the Patriots or the Colts. This is the Browns. The Browns will more than likely have quite a high draft pick waiting for us at the end of the season. Also, the player we wanted (Anthony Spencer) would be a reach at 22. So, we trade out of the 1st, and then into the back end of the 1st and take the guy we wanted with no huge cost. We basically traded down a few spots for Clevlands pick in 08. That's one heck of a deal.

Not really a silly question because you guys ended up drafting a QB later on in Isaiah Stanback so there must be some need for you to have more depth at the QB position if you wasted a pick on a QB in a later round.

Here is my next question, say the Browns did not make the trade with the Cowboys, how far do you think Quinn would have fallen and what team do you think most likely would have finally selected him?

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Old 05-16-2007, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Not really a silly question because you guys ended up drafting a QB later on in Isaiah Stanback so there must be some need for you to have more depth at the QB position if you wasted a pick on a QB in a later round.

Here is my next question, say the Browns did not make the trade with the Cowboys, how far do you think Quinn would have fallen and what team do you think most likely would have finally selected him?
Stanback was drafted as a WR. His jersey # is 86.

Quinn would have been taken by Kansas City. Dallas knew it and Cleveland knew it. It was essentially public knowledge at that point, and it's one reason Dallas received such a high premium for their pick.
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