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Old 05-17-2007, 01:13 PM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
For everyone who says Pacman hasnt been convicted of anything etc, remember that doesn't stop employers from firing employees in any other line of work.

Had Pacman been a mailman instead of a CB, he wouldnt been fired 10 felonies ago. You don't have to be convicted to get fired. Thats how the real world operates.
If anyone ever watched Law and Order: SVU.

While I know it's a show and based on fiction, you realize that if someone brings allegations against a person, they can be suspended or fired?

"Conduct in defamatory nature"

Pacman is a jack-ass and frankly, he's "Defamed" the NFL on numerous occasions.

I'd hate to see what my employer would do if I bit a cop, Hired a hit, and smacked around my g/f. I'd have to look for work, then explain my "tainted" Background.
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
If anyone ever watched Law and Order: SVU.

While I know it's a show and based on fiction, you realize that if someone brings allegations against a person, they can be suspended or fired?

"Conduct in defamatory nature"

Pacman is a jack-ass and frankly, he's "Defamed" the NFL on numerous occasions.

I'd hate to see what my employer would do if I bit a cop, Hired a hit, and smacked around my g/f. I'd have to look for work, then explain my "tainted" Background.
There is no evidence that he hired a hit, so everyone just needs to quit saying that. Guess what, many, many, many NFL players have hit their wife/gf. Just stay consistent. Pacman won't be able to sue, the Union would have to. And if they start dishing out different punishments arbitrarily, they will sue.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
I don't think the Player's Union will sue the NFL, but I do think that Pacman can sue once the grievance process is complete. He has to go internal first before checking out external options. The NFLPA agreed to the tougher standards and asked for them from the commish. They also allowed him to wield all of the power in this matter. Stupid on their part.
Its not stupid since the majority of the players are in favor of it. This is what they want and there happy because its here.
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Old 05-17-2007, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Moses View Post
I'm glad you're not in charge of justice.
I'm speaking from a FO standpoint. The fact that he has been accused over and over again can't just be coincidence, if he were my employee I would fire him, or suspend him in the NFL's case.
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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Pac-Man hit a women, bit a cop, and has about 20 other felony charges to his name.
So charges > convictions now? Thank god the legal system doesnt work that way.

I am against suspensions. Suspensions punish everyone, mostly the fans who are paying to see the product. Fine them to death, I dont have a problem there but suspensions are stupid, unless they do something ridiculously bad(being accused of something like Pacmans is not ridiculous).

You dont want to end up with situations like the NBA just had where because they implemented a rule and had a stupid suspension attached to it with no room for movement or suspensions two good players didnt play for what is basically nothing. It was a blight on the sport and made the entire league look far worse than guys like Pacmans actions ever could, it literally ruins the integrity of the sport.

You should fine, especially for guys who havent even been convicted. But what happens when Peyton Manning is caught speeding on the way to the superbowl? Its breaking the law and via this precedent, he shouldn't play in the superbowl. Or what if his mate gets done for DUI while Peyton is in the car? Essentially this is what Pacman is at the moment being suspended for.

I just really am against suspension, it should be a last resort, fine the guys, fine them real amounts of money not amounts that would have meant something in 1970 but nowadays is pocket change. Hell fine him his whole years salary. But dont punish the fans and dont make the game a worse product because you are on a power trip. I'm really worried by the way he is going about things to be honest. Stinks of Sternism and Stern has all but ruined the NBA over the last 10 years or so. It doesnt take long for a commissioner to ruin a league and Goodell looks determined to give it his best shot. Superbowls in different countries, obsessive suspensions and just a general power trip. Not good.
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Old 05-18-2007, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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Pac-Man does have some grounds to fight this on. What is happening with him is unconstitutional. Ex Post Facto. He was involved in these altercations before the league behavior policy was in place. They established the behavior policy afterwards and then punished him for being "involved" in several incidents, that since he was not found guilty, were not against the rules. But I don't know how much that would effect the NFL they can suspend whoever they want and there is little anyone can do about it. I doubt Pac-Man gets anywhere with this but he does have a case.
Well then, I guess it's a good thing that it's not Congress that's doing this, huh?
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Old 05-18-2007, 07:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wogitalia View Post
So charges > convictions now? Thank god the legal system doesnt work that way.

I am against suspensions. Suspensions punish everyone, mostly the fans who are paying to see the product. Fine them to death, I dont have a problem there but suspensions are stupid, unless they do something ridiculously bad(being accused of something like Pacmans is not ridiculous).

You dont want to end up with situations like the NBA just had where because they implemented a rule and had a stupid suspension attached to it with no room for movement or suspensions two good players didnt play for what is basically nothing. It was a blight on the sport and made the entire league look far worse than guys like Pacmans actions ever could, it literally ruins the integrity of the sport.

You should fine, especially for guys who havent even been convicted. But what happens when Peyton Manning is caught speeding on the way to the superbowl? Its breaking the law and via this precedent, he shouldn't play in the superbowl. Or what if his mate gets done for DUI while Peyton is in the car? Essentially this is what Pacman is at the moment being suspended for.

I just really am against suspension, it should be a last resort, fine the guys, fine them real amounts of money not amounts that would have meant something in 1970 but nowadays is pocket change. Hell fine him his whole years salary. But dont punish the fans and dont make the game a worse product because you are on a power trip. I'm really worried by the way he is going about things to be honest. Stinks of Sternism and Stern has all but ruined the NBA over the last 10 years or so. It doesnt take long for a commissioner to ruin a league and Goodell looks determined to give it his best shot. Superbowls in different countries, obsessive suspensions and just a general power trip. Not good.
Only a suspension will send Pacman a message. Touch if you think it punishes the fans. The responsibility falls back on Pacman. If he louses it up, he is the one that is punishing the team and their fans, not the Commisioner.
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure bearsfan51 is the only person here who has a grasp on how employment really works; you don't have to get proven guilty to get fired or suspended from a job. You can get fired or suspended for pretty much any reason at all. If your employer no longer wants you to represent their business, you are GONE.

The NFL is no different. Pac Man is pretty clearly a thug and a menace who doesn't have the life skills to keep himself out of trouble. Kids are watching the news and thinking that they can get away with this kind of ***** too. Because of this, the NFL should have a higher morality standard than the real world, not the polar opposite. Whether they like it or not, these guys are role models.
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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The NFL is an entity seperate from the United States. It's like getting fired from your job just for being charged for something. Their are stipulations and clauses in job contracts. You have a job in Seattle and in Baltimore you were a sex offender and never registered, guess what BYE BYE.
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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The NFL is an entity seperate from the United States. It's like getting fired from your job just for being charged for something. Their are stipulations and clauses in job contracts. You have a job in Seattle and in Baltimore you were a sex offender and never registered, guess what BYE BYE.
Yes, it happens all the time. If your employers found out you were being investigated by the police for running around biting people like a goddam crazy person, insinuating shooting incidents, etc. etc. etc., they would can you in a second.
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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The NFL is an employer, just like any other company. They just happen to pay their employees large amounts of money in non-guaranteed contracts. Everyone has a right to play in the NFL under the rules of the contract negotiated by the union. Under the union contract, the commish has the right to suspend or discipline players for off-field conduct. There are no stipulations about convictions. The policy guards against conduct detrimental to the NFL and the player. No one can deny that Pacman's behavior is unacceptable. What you can argue is whether a year-long suspension is justifiable based on what he did or whether it is fair compared to other offenders' punishments.

Fairness is what Pacman is trying to argue here. I don't think he has any belief that he won't be suspended for at least 8 games. His motivations here are to limit his suspension and save the money that he is losing. Nothing more.
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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If Pacman were working in any corporate job, any one of his incidents would be grounds for termination. He might be able to sue for wrongful termination, but he probably would not win.
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