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Old 05-18-2007, 09:32 PM    (permalink
frisby213
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well, you cant say an argument applies to one person and not to another.
How is that relevant to anything we're saying? What's your point?
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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How is that relevant to anything we're saying? What's your point?
im saying that you say : "Vince wins games"
Im saying "So do quarterbacks like Phillip Rivers, Jeff Garcia, and Rex Grossman." that argument doesn make sense. None of the are better than VY, but all oof them won the same/more games.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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well, you cant say an argument applies to one person and not to another.
Can you not read or something? I'm comparing the talent around Rivers to the talent around Vince. Rivers has incredible talent around him while Vince has jacksquat. Vince was able to win with virtually nothing while Rivers, who I'm not bashing, had LT, Gates, Neal, and possibly the best offensive line in football. Almost every quarterback in the league could win at least twelve games with that team. A select few could lead the Titans to even five wins.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Vince Young will be a top 5 QB within 3 years.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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im saying that you say : "Vince wins games"
Im saying "So do quarterbacks like Phillip Rivers, Jeff Garcia, and Rex Grossman." that argument doesn make sense. None of the are better than VY, but all oof them won the same/more games.
You obviously don't understand the term "X wins games." That saying shows the idea of someone leading his team to victory more often than he should, based on the amount and quality of talent around him.

Saying Philip Rivers wins games is stupid. He has, in terms of on-paper-talent, arguably the best team to work with. Vince does not.

Vince and the Titans win games they shouldn't. They are not an 8-8 team, more like 5-11 or so...But thanks to their QB, they manage to prove the "any given Sunday" rule and show that one strong player can make a difference.

Rex can make a difference too, but in the opposite way. He LOSES games his team should have WON.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Can you not read or something? I'm comparing the talent around Rivers to the talent around Vince. Rivers has incredible talent around him while Vince has jacksquat. Vince was able to win with virtually nothing while Rivers, who I'm not bashing, had LT, Gates, Neal, and possibly the best offensive line in football. Almost every quarterback in the league could win at least twelve games with that team. A select few could lead the Titans to even five wins.
I can read perfectly fine. If you say "Vince wins games" (even though his stats dont show it...), im sayin so do people like Phillip Rivers, Jeff Garcia, Rex Grossman, Damon Huard, and Jake Delhomme win too, even though none of these quarterbacks have the amount of talent of VY. your argument doesnt make sense.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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You obviously don't understand the term "X wins games." That saying shows the idea of someone leading his team to victory more often than he should, based on the amount and quality of talent around him.

Saying Philip Rivers wins games is stupid. He has, in terms of on-paper-talent, arguably the best team to work with. Vince does not.

Vince and the Titans win games they shouldn't. They are not an 8-8 team, more like 5-11 or so...But thanks to their QB, they manage to prove the "any given Sunday" rule and show that one strong player can make a difference.

Rex can make a difference too, but in the opposite way. He LOSES games his team should have WON.

im pretty sure that "X" player cant win a game by himself. Im also sure that there are 21 other players on a team. Vince Young doesnt do it by himself. I have said numerous times that VY is a better quarterback than Rivers or anyone else i have named, check my post. I am saying your argument doent make sense. So before you can someone else stupid, why dont you check yourself.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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im pretty sure that "X" player cant win a game by himself. Im also sure that there are 21 other players on a team. Vince Young doesnt do it by himself. I have said numerous times that VY is a better quarterback than Rivers or anyone else i have named, check my post. I am saying your argument doent make sense. So before you can someone else stupid, why dont you check yourself.
This is where you're wrong.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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I can read perfectly fine. If you say "Vince wins games" (even though his stats dont show it...), im sayin so do people like Phillip Rivers, Jeff Garcia, Rex Grossman, Damon Huard, and Jake Delhomme win too, even though none of these quarterbacks have the amount of talent of VY. your argument doesnt make sense.
That's my ****ing point you goofball! Stats don't show how good Vince actually is. Do you even understand the "So and so wins games" arguement? You have to factor in the talent around the person. I really hope you aren't the example of every Bengals fan on here.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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This is where you're wrong.
11 players on defense + 11 players on offense = 22 players.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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11 players on defense + 11 players on offense = 22 players.
+ special teams + players who only play in certain packages = more than 22
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Bengals, are you saying VY is better than Rivers? I'm a Charger HATER and I can see how wrong that statement is.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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im pretty sure that "X" player cant win a game by himself. Im also sure that there are 21 other players on a team. Vince Young doesnt do it by himself. I have said numerous times that VY is a better quarterback than Rivers or anyone else i have named, check my post. I am saying your argument doent make sense. So before you can someone else stupid, why dont you check yourself.
First off, I've never called you stupid, or insulted you at all for that matter.

Second, Vince Young is proof that one player CAN take over a game and lead his team to victory. Was he COMPLETELY ALONE in doing it? Well obviously not. But he was still the one responsible, by far. He helps his team outplay the talent they have and overachieve to higher rankings than a Madden ranking, for instance, would illustrate.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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That's my ****ing point you goofball! Stats don't show how good Vince actually is. Do you even understand the "So and so wins games" arguement? You have to factor in the talent around the person. I really hope you aren't the example of every Bengals fan on here.
You are to VY as GRF is to eli. Im not saying that VY is not a better quarterback than Rivers! I am saying that your argument that "He won games" doesnt work.

If a lucky 60 yard game winning field goal was missed and Kiwi completes the sack are we even having this argument? His 8-5 recordcould have just as easily been 6-7.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Im not saying that VY is not a better quarterback than Rivers!
So you're saying Young is better than Rivers? If so, I think you are dead wrong.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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You are to VY as GRF is to eli. Im not saying that VY is not a better quarterback than Rivers! I am saying that your argument that "He won games" doesnt work.

If a lucky 60 yard game winning field goal was missed and Kiwi completes the sack are we even having this argument? His 8-5 recordcould have just as easily been 6-7.
In terms of the 60 yard field goal, you're right. He didn't kick it. But he led the comeback, and he got them to that position on the field against a vastly superior team.

I'm not saying that Vince is the SOLE REASON why the Titans win games....but I am saying that he's the reason why they play better than they should, and win games they're expected to lose. Whether or not he's a top 5, top 10, top 20 whatever QB, I don't know...but the kid is great at pulling his team together and leading them to victory, just like he did in college.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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First off, I've never called you stupid, or insulted you at all for that matter.

Second, Vince Young is proof that one player CAN take over a game and lead his team to victory. Was he COMPLETELY ALONE in doing it? Well obviously not. But he was still the one responsible, by far. He helps his team outplay the talent they have and overachieve to higher rankings than a Madden ranking, for instance, would illustrate.
i know what you are saying. I have known all along what you are saying. But i dont understand your argument. If a miracle kick and a sack were completed, the titans were 6-7 with vince as a starter. Still an impressive feat nonetheless, but you guys are acting like he did it himself. The VY **** riding in here is comical. The titans often got lucky, and Vince did nothing at all to help them through the air. i dont understand how someone can have a 50% completion percentage but still "Leads his team to victory". He showed up in crunchtime, but other times in the games he was a non factor.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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You are to VY as GRF is to eli. Im not saying that VY is not a better quarterback than Rivers! I am saying that your argument that "He won games" doesnt work.

If a lucky 60 yard game winning field goal was missed and Kiwi completes the sack are we even having this argument? His 8-5 recordcould have just as easily been 6-7.
You are to NFLDC what Uwe Boll is to movies. That's a double negative so I assume you are saying Vince is a better quarterback than Rivers. Which is an insane statement that I won't even defend. My arguement is not just "he wins games". My argument is that he plays better than his stats indicate, he's a leader, far ahead of schedule, and brought the Titans out of the gutter.

Actually had the field goal missed the game would have gone to overtime. There's no telling what would have happened there. Had Kiwi sacked Vince then Eli probably would have thrown another lame duck for the secondary to pick off judging by the way he was playing.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Bengals, you're really making yourself look dumb. You need to quit while you can.

VY is the #1 reason why the Titans went 8-8. Without his play last season, you're looking at a team that would have been lucky to win 5 games. When people say he wins games, they mean single-handedly. Can't even come close to saying the same about Rivers or Grossman. Also, there are 53 players on an NFL roster; starters aren't the only guys who get PT and contribute. You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper and making yourself look dumber and dumber.

Eli is still better at this point, in my opinion.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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i know what you are saying. I have known all along what you are saying. But i dont understand your argument. If a miracle kick and a sack were completed, the titans were 6-7 with vince as a starter. Still an impressive feat nonetheless, but you guys are acting like he did it himself. The VY **** riding in here is comical. The titans often got lucky, and Vince did nothing at all to help them through the air. i dont understand how someone can have a 50% completion percentage but still "Leads his team to victory". He showed up in crunchtime, but other times in the games he was a non factor.
EDIT: NVM I'm just reiterating myself.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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So you're saying Young is better than Rivers? If so, I think you are dead wrong.
ok, that is a good point lol. what i meant was he had infinetley more help than VY, of that makes any sense
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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vy is a better athlete than rivers

rivers is a better qb than young

leave it at that
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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ok, that is a good point lol. what i meant was he had infinetley more help than rivers, of that makes any sense
Vince had more help than Rivers? Yeah, I'm not even responding to that comment.
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Vince had more help than Rivers? Yeah, I'm not even responding to that comment.
i meant vince. my bad. I see what you all are saying. Vince led his team to more victories than other quarterbacks did because of the fact he had less help. I understand that. But im also saying that lucky plays also played a big role in the games as well. But yea. you guys win.
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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I can't wait until madden puts in the "will your team to victory" rating, Young will definitely have a 100.
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