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Old 05-20-2007, 01:47 AM    (permalink
XxXdragonXxX
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Originally Posted by Bengals1690 View Post
i think that was fitz, i dont belive he has made one yet.

Boldin made the pro bowl in 2003 (rookie year) and 2006. Fitz made it in 2005.
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Old 05-20-2007, 02:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX View Post
Boldin made the pro bowl in 2003 (rookie year) and 2006. Fitz made it in 2005.
yea I thought Boldin had made the pro bowl but I saw him on someone elses list so I figured I mustve been mistaken.
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Old 05-20-2007, 03:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
How does Heath Miller make it over Winslow?

I know I'm a huge Winslow fan and a huge Browns fan, but that doesn't make sense at all to me.
because he is better than that joke of a "soldier" yall have playing over in Brownsville. and Bodden is another injury plagued joke that the browns have picked up.
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:10 AM    (permalink
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Winslow>Heath Miller

Winslow has that potential to be one of the elite TEs in the league due to his recieving skills. he is currently on the cusp IMO and will more time and a more consistent offence he will gain more. i think that Miller is good and under utilzied but Winslow is better overall, plus as you said he is a "soldier."
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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Fred Taylor.
Exactly what I was thinking.
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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Did Levi Jones made it to one probowl?

I remember him being alternate but I am not sure if he actually made it

If not he definitely deserve to be on this team
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
Lol, I wish Achilles was here to argue Newman vs. Taylor in here. I'd actually side with Achilles, but he'd make so many dumb posts I'd have to interject to piss him off.
Achilles is gone :(

But probably, and hopefully he will come back with another nickname!
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:44 AM    (permalink
remix 6
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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Can't have incoming rookies.

Offense

QB: Jay Cutler
RB: Thomas Jones
FB: Justin Griffith
WR: T. J. Houshmandzadeh
WR: Marques Colston
TE: Heath Miller

LT: D'Brickashaw Ferguson
LG: Eric Steinbach
C: Nick Mangold
RG: Vince Manuwai
RT: Marc Colombo


Defense

DE: Mario Williams
DT: Jason Ferguson
DT: Haloti Ngata
DE: Charles Grant

LB: Bart Scott
LB: DeMeco Ryans
LB: Derrick Johnson

CB: Terrence Newman
CB: Leigh Bodden
FS: Erik Coleman
SS: Kerry Rhodes
coleman blows dude..BAD List..hows Brady not over Cutler who only started 5 games? BS. Theres better than Jones. Miller with less than 400 yards receiving? NOPE

QB - Brady
RB - Westbrook
FB - Griffith
TE - Heap
LT -
LG - Mankins
C - Koppen
RG -
RT -

DE - Pryce
DT - Wilfork
DT - Warren (hes a DE but a 4-3 DT)..outplayed Seymour
DE - Grant
OLB - Scott
MLB - Ryans
OLB - Davis
CB - Samuel
CB - Newman
SS - Rhodes
FS - Hamlin?


edit******thought it was just from last year
forget it
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Old 05-20-2007, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Westbrook was an alternate in 04 or 05, don't know if that counts.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by terribletowel39 View Post
because he is better than that joke of a "soldier" yall have playing over in Brownsville. and Bodden is another injury plagued joke that the browns have picked up.
No he's not. Steelers fans are getting pretty absurd around here. Leigh Bodden is a good player, and Heath Miller is not better than Winslow. He's not even close.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
No he's not. Steelers fans are getting pretty absurd around here. Leigh Bodden is a good player, and Heath Miller is not better than Winslow. He's not even close.
Seriously, it hasn't been this bad since after they won the SB. What's next, Willie Parker better than Tomlinson?
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
No he's not. Steelers fans are getting pretty absurd around here. Leigh Bodden is a good player, and Heath Miller is not better than Winslow. He's not even close.


leigh bodden is a good player
but i wouldnt put him in the top 10 like i do with ike

and im not gonna argue with winslow bein better than heath cuz its true

i say heath is in the same category as the heaps of the league
who is whichi compare heath too
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151 View Post
Seriously, it hasn't been this bad since after they won the SB. What's next, Willie Parker better than Tomlinson?

it could happen
=)

so jokin

but willie is a top 5 back
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
No he's not. Steelers fans are getting pretty absurd around here. Leigh Bodden is a good player, and Heath Miller is not better than Winslow. He's not even close.
if you really don't think that Miller is a better all around tight end that Winslow there is something wrong. Miller has just as reliable hands, he just isn't as fast, shifty blah blah, he blocks a lot better than Winslow and is tougher than Winslow. everytime Miller gets the ball in his hands (1 or 2 times a season) and a defender makes contact there is another 5 yards that will be gained.

and you can be the best player in the game but when you are injured all the time, you can't do too much for the team. he hasn't played in 16 games the entire time he has been in the league and two season he didn't even break 10 games played. (talking about Bodden here but the idea can be applied to Winslow as well just not the stats)
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:16 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by terribletowel39 View Post
if you really don't think that Miller is a better all around tight end that Winslow there is something wrong. Miller has just as reliable hands, he just isn't as fast, shifty blah blah, he blocks a lot better than Winslow and is tougher than Winslow. everytime Miller gets the ball in his hands (1 or 2 times a season) and a defender makes contact there is another 5 yards that will be gained.
Well there must be something wrong with 80-90% of the people on here because I don't think too many people would agree with you. Considering I'm a fan of neither team, neither is DG, or the Steelers fan who even admitted that Winslow is better, I'm going to go ahead and say that you're the homer.

The fact that you even note that Miller is really nothing more than a blocker/ 3rd or 4th option shows that really you think Winslow is better. Winslow is the primary option for the Browns, and would be for a lot of other teams too. He's easily top 3 at his position. Maybe Miller is "tougher" (whatever that means) but I don't think that makes up for everything else Winslow does better.
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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I am neither a Browns or Steelers fan, and I was very high on Heath Miller coming out. But he isn't as good as Kellen Winslow.
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Well there must be something wrong with 80-90% of the people on here because I don't think too many people would agree with you. Considering I'm a fan of neither team, neither is DG, or the Steelers fan who even admitted that Winslow is better, I'm going to go ahead and say that you're the homer.

The fact that you even note that Miller is really nothing more than a blocker/ 3rd or 4th option shows that really you think Winslow is better. Winslow is the primary option for the Browns, and would be for a lot of other teams too. He's easily top 3 at his position. Maybe Miller is "tougher" (whatever that means) but I don't think that makes up for everything else Winslow does better.
he only didn't get as many balls because Whiz was calling the plays. i loved Whiz and he is a great coach but he didn't call any plays for Miller to get the ball. the first game was an absolute showing of what Miller can do when given the chance, and maybe i'm not caught up what a TE has to be now (Lebron James type athlete) to be good but i would take Witten, Heap, Gonzalez and probably a few more i'm not thinking of over Winslow. maybe i'm too old school.
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Patriots-Lions View Post
I am neither a Browns or Steelers fan, and I was very high on Heath Miller coming out. But he isn't as good as Kellen Winslow.

if heath gets the ball more
i know he could be just as effective as todd heap

and i know heath can develop as a top five te in the league if he gets used right

but right now untill hes not hes just one of the best blockin tes int he game
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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if you really don't think that Miller is a better all around tight end that Winslow there is something wrong.
I agree, who likes smart people?

Quote:
Miller has just as reliable hands, he just isn't as fast, shifty blah blah, he blocks a lot better than Winslow and is tougher than Winslow.
Heath isn't as fast as Winslow, and Winslow was playing on one leg... Winslow has the best hands I've seen from a Browns player EVER, and makes some freakishly good catches... Heath does block better than Winslow, but he's not even close to being tougher than Winslow, Winslow played an entire season on basically one leg, caught 89 passes and carried plenty of defenders.[/quote]

Quote:
Everytime Miller gets the ball in his hands (1 or 2 times a season) and a defender makes contact there is another 5 yards that will be gained.
So, you take a guy who gets the ball 1 or 2 times over a guy that gets it 89 times.

Quote:
and you can be the best player in the game but when you are injured all the time, you can't do too much for the team.
In 2 seasons, Heath Miller has 73 receptions, 852 yards, and 11 touchdowns...

In 1 season, Winslow has 89 receptions 875 yards and 3 touchdowns (We threw alot to Heiden/Jurevicius in the red zone because Winslow was double/triple covered.

Quote:
he hasn't played in 16 games the entire time he has been in the league and two season he didn't even break 10 games played.
Wrong, he played in 16 last year and started 16 last year. One year he got hurt because 2 teammates fell on his leg and broke it, another because of his own fault.

Quote:
(talking about Bodden here but the idea can be applied to Winslow as well just not the stats)
Wait... I just quoted your entire thing, and you were making an argument about how Heath was better than Winslow, but you were using stats about Bodden...

WTF.
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by terribletowel39 View Post
he only didn't get as many balls because Whiz was calling the plays. i loved Whiz and he is a great coach but he didn't call any plays for Miller to get the ball. the first game was an absolute showing of what Miller can do when given the chance, and maybe i'm not caught up what a TE has to be now (Lebron James type athlete) to be good but i would take Witten, Heap, Gonzalez and probably a few more i'm not thinking of over Winslow. maybe i'm too old school.
The first game, Heath caught I believe a slant behind the defense and just ran, that doesn't mean squat, the defense let Heath get behind them because of a mix up and took the reception long for a touchdown, that play made up for like 1/5 or 1/6 of his entire yards that season.

And don't get me wrong, I'm actually a fan of Heath Miller... He's one player on the Steelers I actually like and respect, and coming out of College as well, but to say hes better than Winslow is just insane to me, but you have to look at my screen name obviously.

Anyways, after seeing what Winslow can do this year with some of the catches he made, I am convinced he will be a pro-bowler if he can stay healthy.
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Old 05-20-2007, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Yea, Tillman fell for the PA and Miller was wide open and the closest guy was Zach Thomas 15 or so yards away. Real hard to run away from that.
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Old 05-20-2007, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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miller runs a 4.79 40

and winslow runs a 4.55
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Old 05-20-2007, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
I agree, who likes smart people?



Heath isn't as fast as Winslow, and Winslow was playing on one leg... Winslow has the best hands I've seen from a Browns player EVER, and makes some freakishly good catches... Heath does block better than Winslow, but he's not even close to being tougher than Winslow, Winslow played an entire season on basically one leg, caught 89 passes and carried plenty of defenders.


So, you take a guy who gets the ball 1 or 2 times over a guy that gets it 89 times.



In 2 seasons, Heath Miller has 73 receptions, 852 yards, and 11 touchdowns...

In 1 season, Winslow has 89 receptions 875 yards and 3 touchdowns (We threw alot to Heiden/Jurevicius in the red zone because Winslow was double/triple covered.



Wrong, he played in 16 last year and started 16 last year. One year he got hurt because 2 teammates fell on his leg and broke it, another because of his own fault.



Wait... I just quoted your entire thing, and you were making an argument about how Heath was better than Winslow, but you were using stats about Bodden...

WTF.[/quote]

i split the paragraphs for a reason. first was about Winslow and second was about Bodden.
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Old 05-20-2007, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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I am a fan of Heath Miller, he's a good, quality TE in the NFL and should be for quite some time. However, his skills (including blocking) are good but nothing really stands out about his overall play as compared to Winslow. Winslow is a great talent that is doing well even though he needed micro on his knee for most of the season and played on a bum knee. If he was completely healthy, he's a threat to Gates / Gonzo as the best TE in the league.

Miller is good, definitely, but Winslow is just a better overall talent (outside of blocking and maybe attitude?)
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Old 05-20-2007, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
i dont see why jay cutler is being thrown on all these lists, he really hasn't proven anything yet
Jay Cutler is so overhype on this board....It's nuts.....Matt Leinart > Cutler!
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