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Old 05-20-2007, 01:18 PM    (permalink
KILLERSANTA
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Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX View Post
Boldin made the pro bowl in 2003 (rookie year) and 2006. Fitz made it in 2005.
This has nothing to do with the thread....But don't you think you need a new sig?
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Old 05-20-2007, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by KILLERSANTA View Post
This has nothing to do with the thread....But don't you think you need a new sig?
I can't see it for some reason, so then definitely get a new one. What is it?
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Old 05-20-2007, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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A Ken Hamlin sig I believe.
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Old 05-20-2007, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
i dont see why jay cutler is being thrown on all these lists, he really hasn't proven anything yet
I get what you are saying but really the QB position has so many people who have been to a Pro Bowl that the production range is fluctuated between "Great", "Good" and "Bad".

For example, here are the non - rookie starters who haven't been to a Pro Bowl.

Ben Roethlisberger
Alex Smith
JP Losman
Jake Delhomme (I *BELIEVE*)
Byron Leftwich
Matt Schaub
Josh McCown
Jon Kitna
Tavaris Jackson
Rexyback Grossman
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
VY? (he was an alternate, so I guess we can't count him)
Damon Huard
Charlie Frye

I might have forgotten a few but that is the overall list. Outside of Ben Roethlisberger (and maybe Kitna) that list is composed of guys who have either:

a) Not have a significant amount of starts to be considered for the PB (Jackson, Schaub)

b) Guys who are veterans who have enjoyed a minor degree of success but nothing outstanding (Delhomme, Huard)

c) Guys who have limited NFL experience and just started showing signs of advanced play (Smith, Losman, Grossman)

d) Guys who are on the hot seat for a reason, with a rookie in the wings (McCown, Frye)

e) Injury Concerns (Leftwich)

So really we are going off guys like Leinart and Cutler who showed flashes of great play in a limited rookie season. Cutler improved Denver's offense substantially (the numbers I think are in his favor as opposed to Plummer's) and has a Pro Bowl WR Javon Walker who is a year into the playbook. Cutler also has a dangerous running game with Travis Henry and young weapons in Scheffler and Marshall.

Also look at his OL, defense and coaches. Shanny is one of the best in the business and the OL has been good in terms of success and experience. The defense is a good mix of age and athleticism and Cutler's sneaky mobility is helpful to his cause.

Just my take.
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Old 05-20-2007, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Delhomme made it last year, i'm pretty sure.
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Old 05-20-2007, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Philliez01 View Post
I get what you are saying but really the QB position has so many people who have been to a Pro Bowl that the production range is fluctuated between "Great", "Good" and "Bad".

For example, here are the non - rookie starters who haven't been to a Pro Bowl.

Ben Roethlisberger
Alex Smith
JP Losman
Jake Delhomme (I *BELIEVE*)
Byron Leftwich
Matt Schaub
Josh McCown
Jon Kitna
Tavaris Jackson
Rexyback Grossman
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
VY? (he was an alternate, so I guess we can't count him)
Damon Huard
Charlie Frye

I might have forgotten a few but that is the overall list. Outside of Ben Roethlisberger (and maybe Kitna) that list is composed of guys who have either:

a) Not have a significant amount of starts to be considered for the PB (Jackson, Schaub)

b) Guys who are veterans who have enjoyed a minor degree of success but nothing outstanding (Delhomme, Huard)

c) Guys who have limited NFL experience and just started showing signs of advanced play (Smith, Losman, Grossman)

d) Guys who are on the hot seat for a reason, with a rookie in the wings (McCown, Frye)

e) Injury Concerns (Leftwich)

So really we are going off guys like Leinart and Cutler who showed flashes of great play in a limited rookie season. Cutler improved Denver's offense substantially (the numbers I think are in his favor as opposed to Plummer's) and has a Pro Bowl WR Javon Walker who is a year into the playbook. Cutler also has a dangerous running game with Travis Henry and young weapons in Scheffler and Marshall.

Also look at his OL, defense and coaches. Shanny is one of the best in the business and the OL has been good in terms of success and experience. The defense is a good mix of age and athleticism and Cutler's sneaky mobility is helpful to his cause.

Just my take.
Yeah, I did the math a while ago, it came out to our offense netting like 24 ppg to 17 ppg with Plummer, unfortunately our D went from 14 ppg with Plummer to like 27 ppg with Cutler in. Something like that.
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Old 05-20-2007, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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I can't see it for some reason, so then definitely get a new one. What is it?
Ken Hamlin in a Seahawk uniform..........
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Old 05-20-2007, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by HinesWardJr View Post
but willie is a top 5 back
So you're saying he's better than at least one of the following; Gore, LJ, Portis, Westbrook, Alexander, and Jackson?

Anyway, here's my team:

QB: Ben Roethlisberger
RB: Ronnie Brown
FB: Justin Griffith
WR: T. J. Houshmandzadeh
WR: Lee Evans
TE: Kellen Winslow
T: Michael Roos
G: Logan Mankins
C: Nick Mangold
G: Kris Dielman
T: Shane Olivea

DE: Jared Allen
DT: Vince Wilfork
DT: Ma'ake Kemoeatu
DE: Luis Castillo
OLB: Kamerion Wimbley
MLB: DeMeco Ryans
OLB: A.J. Hawk
CB: Terence Newman
CB: Leigh Bodden
S: Kerry Rhodes
S: Chris Hope
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ewing View Post
So you're saying he's better than at least one of the following; Gore, LJ, Portis, Westbrook, Alexander, and Jackson?

Anyway, here's my team:

QB: Ben Roethlisberger
RB: Ronnie Brown
FB: Justin Griffith
WR: T. J. Houshmandzadeh
WR: Lee Evans
TE: Kellen Winslow
T: Michael Roos
G: Logan Mankins
C: Nick Mangold
G: Kris Dielman
T: Shane Olivea

DE: Jared Allen
DT: Vince Wilfork
DT: Ma'ake Kemoeatu
DE: Luis Castillo
OLB: Kamerion Wimbley
MLB: DeMeco Ryans
OLB: A.J. Hawk
CB: Terence Newman
CB: Leigh Bodden
S: Kerry Rhodes
S: Chris Hope
samuel > bodden

Koppen > Mangold

not even being homer here..just the truth
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Samuel never made a PB?

Last edited by Paul : 05-20-2007 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Samuel never made a PB?
nope. last year was his standout year..still not a top 3 CB but hes better thanBodden.
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I agree that Paul is overrating Marc Colombo, though I don't agree that he's just terrible. He was solid, and average tackle on this level. Not Pro-Bowl, though.
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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I agree that Paul is overrating Marc Colombo, though I don't agree that he's just terrible. He was solid, and average tackle on this level. Not Pro-Bowl, though.
Never said he was terrible. He's average, replaceable, certainly not above the many other people that could be named.
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by remix 6 View Post
samuel > bodden

Koppen > Mangold

not even being homer here..just the truth
Normally I don't give a whole lot of credit to the one year starters, but Mangold was really good last year and I'd take him over Koppen.

Also, I'm surprised it took so long for Lee Evans to make a list. People normally give him a lot of praise here.
Jason Peters would make my list, as well, but that's just obvious. He did finally start to get some "experts'" praise after last season. Just a beast at either tackle spot.
I've only had Bills players in mind while skimming this thread. I'm not too good with who has and hasn't made it from other teams.
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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This has nothing to do with the thread....But don't you think you need a new sig?
Maybe later.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by remix 6 View Post
samuel > bodden

Koppen > Mangold

not even being homer here..just the truth
Says the man who thinks Brady, Pryce, and Heap have never been to Pro Bowls.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Says the man who thinks Brady, Pryce, and Heap have never been to Pro Bowls.
he thought it was the people who didnt make it last year, he edited it.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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he thought it was the people who didnt make it last year, he edited it.
Alright and I'll agree that Samuel is probably better than Bodden but Koppen and Mangold are about equal. I'd probably give it to Mangold though.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Alright and I'll agree that Samuel is probably better than Bodden but Koppen and Mangold are about equal. I'd probably give it to Mangold though.
its not every day BB gives a big contract to an upcoming FA Patriot..Koppen and Mankins were our best last year. I know Mangold is good but im not sold just yet..definatley could be better than Koppen but off last season? doubt it.

oh and like the guy said..i didnt notice it was just playes who have NEVER made it to pro bowl..thought it was people who didnt make it last year only . my mistake.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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its not every day BB gives a big contract to an upcoming FA Patriot..Koppen and Mankins were our best last year. I know Mangold is good but im not sold just yet..definatley could be better than Koppen but off last season? doubt it.
Contracts don't mean jack in terms of talent. Just go look at the contract Clements got. Mangold was given the leadership role of the line the minute the Jets drafted him. You know how insane it is for a rookie center to be the general of the line?
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Contracts don't mean jack in terms of talent. Just go look at the contract Clements got. Mangold was given the leadership role of the line the minute the Jets drafted him. You know how insane it is for a rookie center to be the general of the line?
i wasnt using the contract as a barometer of his skill. im telling u how much BB thinks of him.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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i wasnt using the contract as a barometer of his skill. im telling u how much BB thinks of him.
I don't care what Belichick thinks of him. That has nothing to do with how good of a player he is.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Koppen is pretty underrated, he has missed some time over the past few seasons though. He played last year but I think if he can stay healthy for this season and continues his level of play he will start to get some more recognition.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I don't care what Belichick thinks of him. That has nothing to do with how good of a player he is.
im bringing it up because no one here has put Koppen on their list. Hes a very good player..BB thinks so . letting some people know that he deserves recognition.

i saw Wilfork dominate Mangold. Why if hes sooooo good?
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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im bringing it up because no one here has put Koppen on their list. Hes a very good player..BB thinks so . letting some people know that he deserves recognition.

i saw Wilfork dominate Mangold. Why if hes sooooo good?
Alright, then bring up that you think Kopeen is underrated. You keep bringing up that Belichick likes him. That has absolutely nothing to do with talent.

Every linemen in the league gets dominated every now and then. It happens.
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